Pheu Thai Party inquires NACC about cases against Abhisit and Suthep

[kimamey]

Suthep seems to be Teflon Boy as far as the NACC is concerned.

1995 Phucket land scam.

2010 "bring me some red shirt bodies.

2011 palm oil Scam are the most famous 3.

Makes Thaksin's wife winning a sealed bid auction and him getting 2 year sentence seem likke chicken feed. The people of Thailand know it was not fair and this is one of the reasons why he is still so popular here.

Most famous ? You have 3 things against him in 19 years, 2 of which you have no stated evidence for and the 2010 shootings were completely justified given what the red shirt rioters had been doing the previous 6 weeks.

Meanwhile, we have maybe around 3 offences a day from Taksin's puppets from committing violence against their opponents to threatening the courts not to mention what they have done over the last few years and the undoubted attempted cover ups that are currently going on behind closed doors.

Your rhetoric is completely flawed and laughable !!!!! Change the record red sheeple !

You can justify shooting unarmed people from the elevated vantage point of the tracks of the skytrain, whilst they were sheltering in a temple?

You can justify shooting medics/nurses whilst they were tending the wounded?

There is no justification for that. There is a reason - sending a message, a familiar one - "We own Thailand, we can do what we like."

Trouble is, the "red sheeple" you despise so, millions of them, don't buy the message anymore, and won;t forget how it was sent.

You can justify shooting unarmed people from the elevated vantage point of the tracks of the skytrain, whilst they were sheltering in a temple?

You can justify shooting medics/nurses whilst they were tending the wounded?

Whilst there's no justification for it he didn't order it if you look at the ROE. The army disobeyed those orders and the PTP are making sure the army aren't investigated.

Is there any justification for that?

[ubonjoe]

I have removed some posts that are nothing more than bickering and personal attacks. Please get back on topic and stop the battle of words.

[Local Drunk]

Bla bla bla from another convicted PTP member... Christ can't you red lovers get real for just a second?

Edited April 24, 2014 by Local Drunk

[JAG]

Suthep seems to be Teflon Boy as far as the NACC is concerned.

1995 Phucket land scam.

2010 "bring me some red shirt bodies.

2011 palm oil Scam are the most famous 3.

Makes Thaksin's wife winning a sealed bid auction and him getting 2 year sentence seem likke chicken feed. The people of Thailand know it was not fair and this is one of the reasons why he is still so popular here.

Most famous ? You have 3 things against him in 19 years, 2 of which you have no stated evidence for and the 2010 shootings were completely justified given what the red shirt rioters had been doing the previous 6 weeks.

Meanwhile, we have maybe around 3 offences a day from Taksin's puppets from committing violence against their opponents to threatening the courts not to mention what they have done over the last few years and the undoubted attempted cover ups that are currently going on behind closed doors.

Your rhetoric is completely flawed and laughable !!!!! Change the record red sheeple !

You can justify shooting unarmed people from the elevated vantage point of the tracks of the skytrain, whilst they were sheltering in a temple?

You can justify shooting medics/nurses whilst they were tending the wounded?

There is no justification for that. There is a reason - sending a message, a familiar one - "We own Thailand, we can do what we like."

Trouble is, the "red sheeple" you despise so, millions of them, don't buy the message anymore, and won;t forget how it was sent.

You can justify shooting unarmed people from the elevated vantage point of the tracks of the skytrain, whilst they were sheltering in a temple?

You can justify shooting medics/nurses whilst they were tending the wounded?

Whilst there's no justification for it he didn't order it if you look at the ROE. The army disobeyed those orders and the PTP are making sure the army aren't investigated.

Is there any justification for that?

I wasn't commenting on who ordered it or the (lack of) investigation of who was responsible.

I was commenting on tingtongseesods view that the shootings were justified.

I happen to believe that many of the shootings were cold blooded murder, and should be investigated and prosecuted.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tingtongteesood]

The people in the wat were NOT unarmed. What happened to the nurse was unfortunate. I don't know who did what, I was not there but clearly she was just trying to do her duty. RIP to her and som nam na to the armed red terrorists.

[tingtongteesood]

You can justify shooting unarmed people from the elevated vantage point of the tracks of the skytrain, whilst they were sheltering in a temple?

You can justify shooting medics/nurses whilst they were tending the wounded?

By the way JAG I never said any of that, I said that the government action against the red shirt riots was justified. The reds were causing all kinds of mayhem and they had to be stopped. The government tried the soft approach and the reds just took the mickey at every turn. There had been many violent incidents not to mention vandalism, looting and closing down the shopping district for weeks. Please do not try and put words in my mouth. Good effort sheeple, but have to do better than that....

Edited April 24, 2014 by tingtongteesood

[Torkmada]

Not defending the actions of Yingluck or PTP, but they do have a legitimate beef. The cases against her have been "prioritized" and rushed through quickly, while those against the Dems have been "slow walked" and put on a far back burner. The cases against Ying and PTP have developed in a matter of just a couple of months, while those against Dems have been sitting for over two years with no action.

Try a little "fair play" for everyone for once.

You must remember there are no double standards in Thailand

They have just asked for another 15 day extension ( 6 time)

and is accepted in Thailand the request has been approved

There is nothing but double, triple and quadruple standards in Thailand.

And the officials of the the Thai courts are the worst offenders.

Only the wilfully blind and the blissfully ignorant cannot see what's going on here.

[Publicus]

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind. It is not that 'powerful people' conspired to remove him at all, it is just that normal rational people could see what a corrupt bastard he was and what he was doing to the country and decided they didn't want him to continue and ruin the country. Plain and simple. And that is what is happening now, there is no 'conspiracy', Taksin and his puppets and cronies are trashing the country still and those with an ounce of common sense can see what they are doing and know it must stop ! Plain and simple. Taksin keeps making stuff up and trying to complicate things as much as possible so that he can pull the wool over the populace's eyes and use smoke and mirrors and lies to try and get what he desires, but the simple truth is that those with some education and free of the red propaganda can see the truth and they know he and his clan are a cancerous pollup on the ass of Thailand that needs to be cut off as soon as possible. Well done Sutep for opening the eyes of a lot more people and keeping up the momentum.

From your post immediately above:

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind.

Given your ignorance, of Thai society, culture, politics, government, I'll enlighten you here and now, for which I'm sure you'd be grateful because now you can have some notional awareness of things you hadn't ever known about Thailand: I am most pleased to educate you in this matter from your non-base of zero knowledge.

The following descriptions are sourced from Michael H Nelson of the Southeast Asia Research Center of the City University of Hong Kong, who was also a Visiting Scholar on the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, in his work, The Electoral Rules Concerning The House of Representatives in the 2007 Thai Constitution. The URL is posted at the conclusion of the post.

*** The informal socio-political networks (categorized as ammart) of leading bureaucrats, technocrats, and academics involved in politics and administration, who claim to possess superior knowledge as well as morality and thus consider themselves to have special rights in guiding the country's social, political and economic directions (this group is Thailand's version of Plato's true navigators).

*** The military as a self-interested and closed organization that also poses as the self-appointed guardian of national unity and survival, protector of the monarchy, and final arbiter about who is allowed to govern the country.

*** The politicians with their vast informal and exclusionary networks at the provincial, regional, and national levels (including their factions and political parties), who claim that they represent the people, and that constitutionally produced electoral success provides them with the democratic legitimacy to govern the country and dominate the other groups and models in terms of policy making.

Not the ammart, but indeed a core essence of Thailand are :

*** The people themselves, who are the supposed sovereign of the democratic political system. Their involvement in politics as citizens,voters, party members, target group of policies, civil society groups, protestors, and social movements has had a rather mixed record, but it has recently been put into focus by a substantial increase in politicization.

Mr Nelson also includes a description of the Thai monarchy which I omit from this post, not because there is anything controversial about it - it is a straightforward factual account by Mr Nelson - but because I personally prefer to exclude the mention or description of the monarchy from the contentious tones of this particular thread and topic.

http://www.academia.edu/2085351/Electoral_Rules_Concerning_the_House_of_Representatives_in_the_2007_Thai_Constitution

Edited April 24, 2014 by Publicus

[JAG]

Ö

You can justify shooting unarmed people from the elevated vantage point of the tracks of the skytrain, whilst they were sheltering in a temple?

You can justify shooting medics/nurses whilst they were tending the wounded?

By the way JAG I never said any of that, I said that the government action against the red shirt riots was justified. The reds were causing all kinds of mayhem and they had to be stopped. The government tried the soft approach and the reds just took the mickey at every turn. There had been many violent incidents not to mention vandalism, looting and closing down the shopping district for weeks. Please do not try and put words in my mouth. Good effort sheeple, but have to do better than that....

You said "the 2010 shootings were justified". That is not putting words in your mouth. That is what you wrote.

Hence my two questions.

As for the claim that those sheltering in the temple were armed, non of the video evidence supports that, and I don't recall seeing that claim made before. If it were the case, and not demonstrably untrue, I suspect it would have been made (very) public to justify the shootings.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited April 24, 2014 by JAG

[kimamey]

Most famous ? You have 3 things against him in 19 years, 2 of which you have no stated evidence for and the 2010 shootings were completely justified given what the red shirt rioters had been doing the previous 6 weeks.

Meanwhile, we have maybe around 3 offences a day from Taksin's puppets from committing violence against their opponents to threatening the courts not to mention what they have done over the last few years and the undoubted attempted cover ups that are currently going on behind closed doors.

Your rhetoric is completely flawed and laughable !!!!! Change the record red sheeple !

You can justify shooting unarmed people from the elevated vantage point of the tracks of the skytrain, whilst they were sheltering in a temple?

You can justify shooting medics/nurses whilst they were tending the wounded?

There is no justification for that. There is a reason - sending a message, a familiar one - "We own Thailand, we can do what we like."

Trouble is, the "red sheeple" you despise so, millions of them, don't buy the message anymore, and won;t forget how it was sent.

You can justify shooting unarmed people from the elevated vantage point of the tracks of the skytrain, whilst they were sheltering in a temple?

You can justify shooting medics/nurses whilst they were tending the wounded?

Whilst there's no justification for it he didn't order it if you look at the ROE. The army disobeyed those orders and the PTP are making sure the army aren't investigated.

Is there any justification for that?

I wasn't commenting on who ordered it or the (lack of) investigation of who was responsible.

I was commenting on tingtongseesods view that the shootings were justified.

I happen to believe that many of the shootings were cold blooded murder, and should be investigated and prosecuted.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Fair enough but who do the reds think sent that message? With the charges against Abhisit and Suthep aren't they going to think it was them when clearly it wasn't and do they realise that the government they support and promised them justice is doing the opposite? If the charges against A & S fail, which seems likely will they just think it's court corruption without knowing that the PTP is conning them?

The request for information is understandable but there seems to be a suggestion that the courts and independent bodies are looking out for the Dems even when that doesn't seem to be the case and any that go against the Dems are ignored.

Aren't the reds buying a false message?

[tingtongteesood]

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind. It is not that 'powerful people' conspired to remove him at all, it is just that normal rational people could see what a corrupt bastard he was and what he was doing to the country and decided they didn't want him to continue and ruin the country. Plain and simple. And that is what is happening now, there is no 'conspiracy', Taksin and his puppets and cronies are trashing the country still and those with an ounce of common sense can see what they are doing and know it must stop ! Plain and simple. Taksin keeps making stuff up and trying to complicate things as much as possible so that he can pull the wool over the populace's eyes and use smoke and mirrors and lies to try and get what he desires, but the simple truth is that those with some education and free of the red propaganda can see the truth and they know he and his clan are a cancerous pollup on the ass of Thailand that needs to be cut off as soon as possible. Well done Sutep for opening the eyes of a lot more people and keeping up the momentum.

From your post immediately above:

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind.

Given your ignorance, of Thai society, culture, politics, government, I'll enlighten you here and now, for which I'm sure you'd be grateful because now you can have some notional awareness of things you hadn't ever known about Thailand: I am most pleased to educate you in this matter from your non-base of zero knowledge.

The following descriptions are sourced from Michael H Nelson of the Southeast Asia Research Center of the City University of Hong Kong, who was also a Visiting Scholar on the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, in his work, The Electoral Rules Concerning The House of Representatives in the 2007 Thai Constitution. The URL is posted at the conclusion of the post.

*** The informal socio-political networks (categorized as ammart) of leading bureaucrats, technocrats, and academics involved in politics and administration, who claim to possess superior knowledge as well as morality and thus consider themselves to have special rights in guiding the country's social, political and economic directions (this group is Thailand's version of Plato's true navigators).

*** The military as a self-interested and closed organization that also poses as the self-appointed guardian of national unity and survival, protector of the monarchy, and final arbiter about who is allowed to govern the country.

*** The politicians with their vast informal and exclusionary networks at the provincial, regional, and national levels (including their factions and political parties), who claim that they represent the people, and that constitutionally produced electoral success provides them with the democratic legitimacy to govern the country and dominate the other groups and models in terms of policy making.

Not the ammart, but indeed a core essence of Thailand are :

*** The people themselves, who are the supposed sovereign of the democratic political system. Their involvement in politics as citizens,voters, party members, target group of policies, civil society groups, protestors, and social movements has had a rather mixed record, but it has recently been put into focus by a substantial increase in politicization.

Mr Nelson also includes a description of the Thai monarchy which I omit from this post, not because there is anything controversial about it - it is a straightforward factual account by Mr Nelson - but because I personally prefer to exclude the mention or description of the monarchy from the contentious tones of this particular thread and topic.

http://www.academia.edu/2085351/Electoral_Rules_Concerning_the_House_of_Representatives_in_the_2007_Thai_Constitution

Can you stop with the personal attacks ? You call me ignorant ( again ) yet you have never met me and do not know anything about me. Why do you feel a need to look down on everyone who disagrees with you and be so constantly condescending ? Seems like you have some kind of inferiority complex. Get that chip off your shoulder.

As for your random boring ramblings, there is nothing in the least bit enlightening about any of it. All I hear is 'baa baa baa'. Go and preach to someone who wants to hear it and stop insulting my intelligence.

[tingtongteesood]

Ö

You can justify shooting unarmed people from the elevated vantage point of the tracks of the skytrain, whilst they were sheltering in a temple?

You can justify shooting medics/nurses whilst they were tending the wounded?

By the way JAG I never said any of that, I said that the government action against the red shirt riots was justified. The reds were causing all kinds of mayhem and they had to be stopped. The government tried the soft approach and the reds just took the mickey at every turn. There had been many violent incidents not to mention vandalism, looting and closing down the shopping district for weeks. Please do not try and put words in my mouth. Good effort sheeple, but have to do better than that....

You said "the 2010 shootings were justified". That is not putting words in your mouth. That is what you wrote.

Hence my two questions.

As for the claim that those sheltering in the temple were armed, non of the video evidence supports that, and I don't recall seeing that claim made before. If it were the case, and not demonstrably untrue, I suspect it would have been made (very) public to justify the shootings.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I stated that the use of force to end the violent riots was justified. I did not even try to justify the shooting of an unarmed civilian. I did not say that there weren't mistakes made. You brought her up, I didn't.

Do you even know the name of the temple ? There were weapons stashed in there and there were pictures. Google it....

[anteater]

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind. It is not that 'powerful people' conspired to remove him at all, it is just that normal rational people could see what a corrupt bastard he was and what he was doing to the country and decided they didn't want him to continue and ruin the country. Plain and simple. And that is what is happening now, there is no 'conspiracy', Taksin and his puppets and cronies are trashing the country still and those with an ounce of common sense can see what they are doing and know it must stop ! Plain and simple. Taksin keeps making stuff up and trying to complicate things as much as possible so that he can pull the wool over the populace's eyes and use smoke and mirrors and lies to try and get what he desires, but the simple truth is that those with some education and free of the red propaganda can see the truth and they know he and his clan are a cancerous pollup on the ass of Thailand that needs to be cut off as soon as possible. Well done Sutep for opening the eyes of a lot more people and keeping up the momentum.

Some of the shadowy "powerful people" would include Prem, according to some sources. But do you really think that these forces/people are going to tell us: "Oh, it was me who deposed the elected Prime Minister of Thailand"? Especially given that this 2006 coup has proved to be such a disastrous decision for the future of Thailand.

By the way, you say Thaksin was a "corrupt bastard". Sure, that is your opinion, which is shared by many. But why could the electorate not be allowed to decide that? And if he was so corrupt and was "trashing" the country, why don't the figures support that opinion? I have seen figures (e.g. on the Mandala website) that suggest that Thailand was doing rather well during the Thaksin period, 2001-2006).

And though you say "trashing the country still". Says who? Where are the statistics for the Yingluck period? Some of the national figures I have seen look rather good until you factor in the "political uncertainty" factor from late 2013. My personal opinion is that (if I was Thai) I would be reluctant to vote for PT based on the rice and car subsidy schemes (and earlier dubious policies), but these schemes need to be explained further. It is no good just saying "corrupt, corrupt" if you have no evidence.

By the way, can you stop using the expression "red sheeple". I am sympathetic to the redshirts in Thailand and am a socialist, but am not a sheep.

[JAG]

I quoted you verbatim " The 2010 shootings were justified". That is what you said, word for word. It is there in your post for anyone who cares to see, if it is not what you meant then say so, so you may stand corrected.

The temple is called Wat Pathum Wanaram.

On the 6th of August 2013 The South Bangkok Criminal Court ruled that the six people killed whilst sheltering in the wat were shot by soldiers on the adjacent Sky train tracks. The Judge went on to say that there was no evidence of weapons being stacked in the temple.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rice555]

The most corrupt politician in Thai history was probably Sa**t. There's little evidence that Thaksin was atypically corrupt, though he continued to pursue his business interests while in power and took advantage of his political position. He clearly annoyed some powerful people and that's why they were out to get him in 2006 and then they put their own people in positions of influence and changed the Constitution to make sure they got him proper. The country's been in a mess ever since, and is now going further downhill: mainly because some old codgers hate Thaksin. It would have been much better to have let the people vote Thaksin out of power - or not - (as in other democracies). Probably he would have been voted out, sooner or later (as in other democracies) if the coupmongers had not been allowed to do what they did. In that case we'd maybe have a normal, functioning country and government instead of the screwup that is Thailand today.

Hello All, I might be mistaken, but wasn't t convicted under the laws of the 97 constitution?

rice555

[tingtongteesood]

I quoted you verbatim " The 2010 shootings were justified". That is what you said, word for word. It is there in your post for anyone who cares to see, if it is not what you meant then say so, so you may stand corrected.

The temple is called Wat Pathum Wanaram.

On the 6th of August 2013 The South Bangkok Criminal Court ruled that the six people killed whilst sheltering in the wat were shot by soldiers on the adjacent Sky train tracks. The Judge went on to say that there was no evidence of weapons being stacked in the temple.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So to repeat what I said, I never mentioned the nurse and I never said killing civilians was ok and you tried to put those words in my mouth.

Yes, that is the name of the wat. Look for the Bangkok Post report from the time and see pictures of weapons from the temple that include slingshots, bullets, pipe bombs. The army said weapons were there and took photos of them. DSI says that is wrong. DSI are owned by Thaksin, ask Tarit. I trust Tarit as far as I could throw him, he has shown repeatedly he works for his boss in Dubai and in his interests. I believe statements from the army who were there when it happened.

I also believe that the bullshit 'murder' court case brought against Abhisit and Sutep is mainly based around these deaths. We all know the only reason this case was brought against them in the first place was to try and force them to agree to the bs amnesty bill for Thaksin as it would amnesty them too. Unfortunately for PT it back fired when they refused to buckle under the pressure.

And whilst there is no denying the autopsy's show they were shot from high angle, it does not tell us what the people at low angle were doing and no photos or video evidence has come out to show us. However the soldiers at the enquiry said there was a gun battle that went on for around 10 minutes. If reds were shooting at soldiers, of course they shot back. Those that set fire to central world were moving in that direction, and they were armed.

So in summary, reds shot at soldiers, soldiers shot back. Poor nurse got caught in the middle unfortunately.

I rest my case.

Edited April 24, 2014 by tingtongteesood

[tingtongteesood]

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind. It is not that 'powerful people' conspired to remove him at all, it is just that normal rational people could see what a corrupt bastard he was and what he was doing to the country and decided they didn't want him to continue and ruin the country. Plain and simple. And that is what is happening now, there is no 'conspiracy', Taksin and his puppets and cronies are trashing the country still and those with an ounce of common sense can see what they are doing and know it must stop ! Plain and simple. Taksin keeps making stuff up and trying to complicate things as much as possible so that he can pull the wool over the populace's eyes and use smoke and mirrors and lies to try and get what he desires, but the simple truth is that those with some education and free of the red propaganda can see the truth and they know he and his clan are a cancerous pollup on the ass of Thailand that needs to be cut off as soon as possible. Well done Sutep for opening the eyes of a lot more people and keeping up the momentum.

Some of the shadowy "powerful people" would include Prem, according to some sources. But do you really think that these forces/people are going to tell us: "Oh, it was me who deposed the elected Prime Minister of Thailand"? Especially given that this 2006 coup has proved to be such a disastrous decision for the future of Thailand.

By the way, you say Thaksin was a "corrupt bastard". Sure, that is your opinion, which is shared by many. But why could the electorate not be allowed to decide that? And if he was so corrupt and was "trashing" the country, why don't the figures support that opinion? I have seen figures (e.g. on the Mandala website) that suggest that Thailand was doing rather well during the Thaksin period, 2001-2006).

And though you say "trashing the country still". Says who? Where are the statistics for the Yingluck period? Some of the national figures I have seen look rather good until you factor in the "political uncertainty" factor from late 2013. My personal opinion is that (if I was Thai) I would be reluctant to vote for PT based on the rice and car subsidy schemes (and earlier dubious policies), but these schemes need to be explained further. It is no good just saying "corrupt, corrupt" if you have no evidence.

By the way, can you stop using the expression "red sheeple". I am sympathetic to the redshirts in Thailand and am a socialist, but am not a sheep.

Plenty of circumstantial evidence if you do enough reading with an open mind. Lots of big numbers in the newspaper. There are a lot of facts in old reports if you have the time and inclination to look for them, Thaksin changing laws to suit himself, abusing his power, trying to bribe the judges etc etc. The fact that PT can't pay the farmers is evidence enough for the useless puppet. Their populist policies are without fail abysmal failures that may have gained votes but have done nothing to benefit the country.

[JAG]

I quoted you verbatim " The 2010 shootings were justified". That is what you said, word for word. It is there in your post for anyone who cares to see, if it is not what you meant then say so, so you may stand corrected.

The temple is called Wat Pathum Wanaram.

On the 6th of August 2013 The South Bangkok Criminal Court ruled that the six people killed whilst sheltering in the wat were shot by soldiers on the adjacent Sky train tracks. The Judge went on to say that there was no evidence of weapons being stacked in the temple.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So to repeat what I said, I never mentioned the nurse and I never said killing civilians was ok and you tried to put those words in my mouth.

Yes, that is the name of the wat. Look for the Bangkok Post report from the time and see pictures of weapons from the temple that include slingshots, bullets, pipe bombs. The army said weapons were there and took photos of them. DSI says that is wrong. DSI are owned by Thaksin, ask Tarit. I trust Tarit as far as I could throw him, he has shown repeatedly he works for his boss in Dubai and in his interests. I believe statements from the army who were there when it happened.

I also believe that the bullshit 'murder' court case brought against Abhisit and Sutep is mainly based around these deaths. We all know the only reason this case was brought against them in the first place was to try and force them to agree to the bs amnesty bill for Thaksin as it would amnesty them too. Unfortunately for PT it back fired when they refused to buckle under the pressure.

And whilst there is no denying the autopsy's show they were shot from high angle, it does not tell us what the people at low angle were doing and no photos or video evidence has come out to show us. However the soldiers at the enquiry said there was a gun battle that went on for around 10 minutes. If reds were shooting at soldiers, of course they shot back. Those that set fire to central world were moving in that direction, and they were armed.

So in summary, reds shot at soldiers, soldiers shot back. Poor nurse got caught in the middle unfortunately.

I rest my case.

Except that there is no evidence that anybody shot at those soldiers, there is evidence that the soldiers shot those sheltering in the temple - dead bodies.

And i repeat - you said the shootings were justified.

No point continuing this argument, go ahead and have the last word.

[Publicus]

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind. It is not that 'powerful people' conspired to remove him at all, it is just that normal rational people could see what a corrupt bastard he was and what he was doing to the country and decided they didn't want him to continue and ruin the country. Plain and simple. And that is what is happening now, there is no 'conspiracy', Taksin and his puppets and cronies are trashing the country still and those with an ounce of common sense can see what they are doing and know it must stop ! Plain and simple. Taksin keeps making stuff up and trying to complicate things as much as possible so that he can pull the wool over the populace's eyes and use smoke and mirrors and lies to try and get what he desires, but the simple truth is that those with some education and free of the red propaganda can see the truth and they know he and his clan are a cancerous pollup on the ass of Thailand that needs to be cut off as soon as possible. Well done Sutep for opening the eyes of a lot more people and keeping up the momentum.

From your post immediately above:

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind.

Given your ignorance, of Thai society, culture, politics, government, I'll enlighten you here and now, for which I'm sure you'd be grateful because now you can have some notional awareness of things you hadn't ever known about Thailand: I am most pleased to educate you in this matter from your non-base of zero knowledge.

The following descriptions are sourced from Michael H Nelson of the Southeast Asia Research Center of the City University of Hong Kong, who was also a Visiting Scholar on the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, in his work, The Electoral Rules Concerning The House of Representatives in the 2007 Thai Constitution. The URL is posted at the conclusion of the post.

*** The informal socio-political networks (categorized as ammart) of leading bureaucrats, technocrats, and academics involved in politics and administration, who claim to possess superior knowledge as well as morality and thus consider themselves to have special rights in guiding the country's social, political and economic directions (this group is Thailand's version of Plato's true navigators).

*** The military as a self-interested and closed organization that also poses as the self-appointed guardian of national unity and survival, protector of the monarchy, and final arbiter about who is allowed to govern the country.

*** The politicians with their vast informal and exclusionary networks at the provincial, regional, and national levels (including their factions and political parties), who claim that they represent the people, and that constitutionally produced electoral success provides them with the democratic legitimacy to govern the country and dominate the other groups and models in terms of policy making.

Not the ammart, but indeed a core essence of Thailand are :

*** The people themselves, who are the supposed sovereign of the democratic political system. Their involvement in politics as citizens,voters, party members, target group of policies, civil society groups, protestors, and social movements has had a rather mixed record, but it has recently been put into focus by a substantial increase in politicization.

Mr Nelson also includes a description of the Thai monarchy which I omit from this post, not because there is anything controversial about it - it is a straightforward factual account by Mr Nelson - but because I personally prefer to exclude the mention or description of the monarchy from the contentious tones of this particular thread and topic.

http://www.academia.edu/2085351/Electoral_Rules_Concerning_the_House_of_Representatives_in_the_2007_Thai_Constitution

Can you stop with the personal attacks ? You call me ignorant ( again ) yet you have never met me and do not know anything about me. Why do you feel a need to look down on everyone who disagrees with you and be so constantly condescending ? Seems like you have some kind of inferiority complex. Get that chip off your shoulder.

As for your random boring ramblings, there is nothing in the least bit enlightening about any of it. All I hear is 'baa baa baa'. Go and preach to someone who wants to hear it and stop insulting my intelligence.

I as one of your TVF "bleeting sheeple" whose posts cause you to hear only "baa baa baa" am responding to your denials concerning the well established and well known Thai ammart.

(I actually don't know why I bother to say anything at all to you given that your only hear "baa baa baa" from posters whose views differ from those of your own. But I choose to reply to the core points of most of your posts so I reply in the ways that I do because of the offensive manner by which you present your posts. Your presentations are at best rude, crude, arrogant.)

Yes, I do apply the word ignorant to your views concerning the ammart. If it's the right word, as I believe it to be, then so be it. If it's the wrong word, as you believe it to be, you'd need to help me out here.

Do you deny the existence of the Thai ammart?

Or do you admit to the existence of the Thai ammart but deny the ammart are involved in Suthep's campaigns and programs?

Also, I'd be curious as to how you would characterize members of the NACC. What would you say about their socio-economic background (and their educations) and how they got to be appointed to the NACC?

[tingtongteesood]

I quoted you verbatim " The 2010 shootings were justified". That is what you said, word for word. It is there in your post for anyone who cares to see, if it is not what you meant then say so, so you may stand corrected.

The temple is called Wat Pathum Wanaram.

On the 6th of August 2013 The South Bangkok Criminal Court ruled that the six people killed whilst sheltering in the wat were shot by soldiers on the adjacent Sky train tracks. The Judge went on to say that there was no evidence of weapons being stacked in the temple.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So to repeat what I said, I never mentioned the nurse and I never said killing civilians was ok and you tried to put those words in my mouth.

Yes, that is the name of the wat. Look for the Bangkok Post report from the time and see pictures of weapons from the temple that include slingshots, bullets, pipe bombs. The army said weapons were there and took photos of them. DSI says that is wrong. DSI are owned by Thaksin, ask Tarit. I trust Tarit as far as I could throw him, he has shown repeatedly he works for his boss in Dubai and in his interests. I believe statements from the army who were there when it happened.

I also believe that the bullshit 'murder' court case brought against Abhisit and Sutep is mainly based around these deaths. We all know the only reason this case was brought against them in the first place was to try and force them to agree to the bs amnesty bill for Thaksin as it would amnesty them too. Unfortunately for PT it back fired when they refused to buckle under the pressure.

And whilst there is no denying the autopsy's show they were shot from high angle, it does not tell us what the people at low angle were doing and no photos or video evidence has come out to show us. However the soldiers at the enquiry said there was a gun battle that went on for around 10 minutes. If reds were shooting at soldiers, of course they shot back. Those that set fire to central world were moving in that direction, and they were armed.

So in summary, reds shot at soldiers, soldiers shot back. Poor nurse got caught in the middle unfortunately.

I rest my case.

Except that there is no evidence that anybody shot at those soldiers, there is evidence that the soldiers shot those sheltering in the temple - dead bodies.

And i repeat - you said the shootings were justified.

No point continuing this argument, go ahead and have the last word.

Soldiers said they were shot at and there is lots of gun fire heard in videos that were shot nearby at the time. Like I said I believe the soldiers.

[tingtongteesood]

From your post immediately above:

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind.

Given your ignorance, of Thai society, culture, politics, government, I'll enlighten you here and now, for which I'm sure you'd be grateful because now you can have some notional awareness of things you hadn't ever known about Thailand: I am most pleased to educate you in this matter from your non-base of zero knowledge.

The following descriptions are sourced from Michael H Nelson of the Southeast Asia Research Center of the City University of Hong Kong, who was also a Visiting Scholar on the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, in his work, The Electoral Rules Concerning The House of Representatives in the 2007 Thai Constitution. The URL is posted at the conclusion of the post.

*** The informal socio-political networks (categorized as ammart) of leading bureaucrats, technocrats, and academics involved in politics and administration, who claim to possess superior knowledge as well as morality and thus consider themselves to have special rights in guiding the country's social, political and economic directions (this group is Thailand's version of Plato's true navigators).

*** The military as a self-interested and closed organization that also poses as the self-appointed guardian of national unity and survival, protector of the monarchy, and final arbiter about who is allowed to govern the country.

*** The politicians with their vast informal and exclusionary networks at the provincial, regional, and national levels (including their factions and political parties), who claim that they represent the people, and that constitutionally produced electoral success provides them with the democratic legitimacy to govern the country and dominate the other groups and models in terms of policy making.

Not the ammart, but indeed a core essence of Thailand are :

*** The people themselves, who are the supposed sovereign of the democratic political system. Their involvement in politics as citizens,voters, party members, target group of policies, civil society groups, protestors, and social movements has had a rather mixed record, but it has recently been put into focus by a substantial increase in politicization.

Mr Nelson also includes a description of the Thai monarchy which I omit from this post, not because there is anything controversial about it - it is a straightforward factual account by Mr Nelson - but because I personally prefer to exclude the mention or description of the monarchy from the contentious tones of this particular thread and topic.

http://www.academia.edu/2085351/Electoral_Rules_Concerning_the_House_of_Representatives_in_the_2007_Thai_Constitution

Can you stop with the personal attacks ? You call me ignorant ( again ) yet you have never met me and do not know anything about me. Why do you feel a need to look down on everyone who disagrees with you and be so constantly condescending ? Seems like you have some kind of inferiority complex. Get that chip off your shoulder.

As for your random boring ramblings, there is nothing in the least bit enlightening about any of it. All I hear is 'baa baa baa'. Go and preach to someone who wants to hear it and stop insulting my intelligence.

I as one of your TVF "bleeting sheeple" whose posts cause you to hear only "baa baa baa" am responding to your denials concerning the well established and well known Thai ammart.

(I actually don't know why I bother to say anything at all to you given that your only hear "baa baa baa" from posters whose views differ from those of your own. But I choose to reply to the core points of most of your posts so I reply in the ways that I do because of the offensive manner by which you present your posts. Your presentations are at best rude, crude, arrogant.)

Yes, I do apply the word ignorant to your views concerning the ammart. If it's the right word, as I believe it to be, then so be it. If it's the wrong word, as you believe it to be, you'd need to help me out here.

Do you deny the existence of the Thai ammart?

Or do you admit to the existence of the Thai ammart but deny the ammart are involved in Suthep's campaigns and programs?

Also, I'd be curious as to how you would characterize members of the NACC. What would you say about their socio-economic background (and their educations) and how they got to be appointed to the NACC?

And once again you are condescending and insulting. Calling me 'crude rude and arrogant' is in itself rude and arrogant. You are far more arrogant than I Can you make even one post directed at me without trying to insult me ? I know you dislike me because I keep pointing out your lies and spin to everyone, but come on,l et's keep things civil.

I do not deny Thailand has rich people and never did, and I do not deny a number of them are 'pulling strings' so to speak and never did. Thaksin is a prime example....

Thos whole business of the violent red shirts cries of 'Kill the ammart' because the red propaganda blames the rich Bangkokians for the ills of the country is extremely irritating. The 'reds' have a lot of so called 'ammart' too. This whole 'rich verses poor' stuff is utter rubbish. It is really 'Thaksin's red brainwashed verses everyone else'. Thaksin's enemies are so called 'ammart' so he has had the reds brainwashed to hate them because he hates them.

I wish more people would understand this.

Free your mind of spin and propaganda and see what is really going on.

[Eric Loh]

From your post immediately above:

Yeah yeah, the old 'it's a conspiracy' line. Don't believe it. Who are these mysterious shadowy 'powerful people' of which you mention ? The red sheeple continually bleat on about them but nobody ever names any names because there aren't any, it's all an imagining from Taksin's deranged mind.

Given your ignorance, of Thai society, culture, politics, government, I'll enlighten you here and now, for which I'm sure you'd be grateful because now you can have some notional awareness of things you hadn't ever known about Thailand: I am most pleased to educate you in this matter from your non-base of zero knowledge.

The following descriptions are sourced from Michael H Nelson of the Southeast Asia Research Center of the City University of Hong Kong, who was also a Visiting Scholar on the Faculty of Political Science, Chulalongkorn University, in his work, The Electoral Rules Concerning The House of Representatives in the 2007 Thai Constitution. The URL is posted at the conclusion of the post.

*** The informal socio-political networks (categorized as ammart) of leading bureaucrats, technocrats, and academics involved in politics and administration, who claim to possess superior knowledge as well as morality and thus consider themselves to have special rights in guiding the country's social, political and economic directions (this group is Thailand's version of Plato's true navigators).

*** The military as a self-interested and closed organization that also poses as the self-appointed guardian of national unity and survival, protector of the monarchy, and final arbiter about who is allowed to govern the country.

*** The politicians with their vast informal and exclusionary networks at the provincial, regional, and national levels (including their factions and political parties), who claim that they represent the people, and that constitutionally produced electoral success provides them with the democratic legitimacy to govern the country and dominate the other groups and models in terms of policy making.

Not the ammart, but indeed a core essence of Thailand are :

*** The people themselves, who are the supposed sovereign of the democratic political system. Their involvement in politics as citizens,voters, party members, target group of policies, civil society groups, protestors, and social movements has had a rather mixed record, but it has recently been put into focus by a substantial increase in politicization.

Mr Nelson also includes a description of the Thai monarchy which I omit from this post, not because there is anything controversial about it - it is a straightforward factual account by Mr Nelson - but because I personally prefer to exclude the mention or description of the monarchy from the contentious tones of this particular thread and topic.

http://www.academia.edu/2085351/Electoral_Rules_Concerning_the_House_of_Representatives_in_the_2007_Thai_Constitution

Can you stop with the personal attacks ? You call me ignorant ( again ) yet you have never met me and do not know anything about me. Why do you feel a need to look down on everyone who disagrees with you and be so constantly condescending ? Seems like you have some kind of inferiority complex. Get that chip off your shoulder.

As for your random boring ramblings, there is nothing in the least bit enlightening about any of it. All I hear is 'baa baa baa'. Go and preach to someone who wants to hear it and stop insulting my intelligence.

I as one of your TVF "bleeting sheeple" whose posts cause you to hear only "baa baa baa" am responding to your denials concerning the well established and well known Thai ammart.

(I actually don't know why I bother to say anything at all to you given that your only hear "baa baa baa" from posters whose views differ from those of your own. But I choose to reply to the core points of most of your posts so I reply in the ways that I do because of the offensive manner by which you present your posts. Your presentations are at best rude, crude, arrogant.)

Yes, I do apply the word ignorant to your views concerning the ammart. If it's the right word, as I believe it to be, then so be it. If it's the wrong word, as you believe it to be, you'd need to help me out here.

Do you deny the existence of the Thai ammart?

Or do you admit to the existence of the Thai ammart but deny the ammart are involved in Suthep's campaigns and programs?

Also, I'd be curious as to how you would characterize members of the NACC. What would you say about their socio-economic background (and their educations) and how they got to be appointed to the NACC?

And once again you are condescending and insulting. Calling me 'crude rude and arrogant' is in itself rude and arrogant. You are far more arrogant than I Can you make even one post directed at me without trying to insult me ? I know you dislike me because I keep pointing out your lies and spin to everyone, but come on,l et's keep things civil.

I do not deny Thailand has rich people and never did, and I do not deny a number of them are 'pulling strings' so to speak and never did. Thaksin is a prime example....

Thos whole business of the violent red shirts cries of 'Kill the ammart' because the red propaganda blames the rich Bangkokians for the ills of the country is extremely irritating. The 'reds' have a lot of so called 'ammart' too. This whole 'rich verses poor' stuff is utter rubbish. It is really 'Thaksin's red brainwashed verses everyone else'. Thaksin's enemies are so called 'ammart' so he has had the reds brainwashed to hate them because he hates them.

I wish more people would understand this.

Free your mind of spin and propaganda and see what is really going on.

Don't wish to get to get involved in your private debate but need to point out that the Bangkok Amart have the power and have used it to change government while the rich Northern Amart do not and only into making money. If coups are ills of Thailand, certainly the Bangkok Amarts are the culprits.