Thai opposition urges PM to resign, refuses to back poll

[Lite Beer]

Thai opposition urges PM to resign, refuses to back poll

BANGKOK, May 3, 2014 (AFP) - Thailand's opposition leader Saturday refused to commit to elections mooted for July to end a deadly political crisis, instead calling for prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra to resign before new polls later in the year.

The kingdom, divided by years of political unrest, has been without a fully functioning government since December, severely hampering policy making and draining the energy of the nation's once-dynamic economy.

Launching his well-trailed proposal to ease the crisis, Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva urged Yingluck and her cabinet to resign to make way for an appointed interim administration which would oversee a debate on reforms.

It would then hold a referendum on the reform proposals to drag Thailand out of its current paralysis with elections six months later, he told reporters, without directly saying whether or not his party would participate in the July poll.

"Yingluck should make the sacrifice of withdrawing from power," he said, explaining his roadmap is inspired by the fear of spiralling political violence, which has so far left at least 25 people dead and hundreds wounded.

"No side can gain 100 percent from my plan... but every side will have their demands addressed."

Abhisit, a former prime minister, has faced criticism for his party's boycott of polls in February called by Yingluck -- which were later annulled by the courts after violent protests disrupted voting.

Critics say the move further eroded Thailand's fragile democracy and accuse Abhisit of paying lip-service to elections.

On Wednesday Thailand set new elections for July 20, polls pro-government supporters hope could revive Yingluck's battered administration -- although they still need to be endorsed by a royal decree.

Abhisit's proposal echoes demands for reforms before elections made by anti-government protesters who have massed on Bangkok's streets for six months in a bid to oust Yingluck and curb the influence of her billionaire family on Thai politics.

Yingluck faces two legal challenges to her premiership which could see her toppled over the coming weeks.

The first relates to an allegation of abuse of power and the second to her role in a costly rice subsidy scheme.

Thailand has been riven by an eight-year power struggle between a royalist establishment -- supported by parts of the judiciary and the military -- and the Shinawatra clan, which has traditionally enjoyed strong support in poor, rural northern Thailand.

Shinawatra-led or aligned governments have won every poll since 2001, driven to power by votes from their vast rural base.

Critics accuse the family of vote-buying through populist policies such as the rice scheme.

Yingluck's wildly divisive elder brother Thaksin was ousted in a 2006 army coup, sparking the seemingly intractable political conflict.

Two succeeding Thaksin-allied governments were ousted by the nation's courts and Abhisit took power in 2008.

Mass protests in 2010 by the "Red Shirts" street movement, which is broadly supportive of Thaksin, triggered a military crackdown under Abhisit's government that left dozens dead.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-05-03

[Orac]

I assume this referendum on proposed reforms would be like the last one - no campaigning against it and if the ppl say no to it the 'neutral government' stay in place until the ppl say yes?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MaxLee]

Election-Collection, Election-Collection, and no end to it.... It doesn't really matter at this point

[Snig27]

Abhist really struggles to extract himself from a solution that doesn't involve him being appointed PM. What a waste of space this clown is. For a brief moment you hoped he was thinking about Thailand and not about himself and his narrow band of elitist bosses.

Let's face it, he's too scared to stand.

[BlueNoseCodger]

But pretty much as expected, same thing:

1. Yingluk must resign, so we put in a neutral PM, chosen by the Partisan Senate we now control.

2. Rig the Parliament the way we rigged the Senate so we control it.

3. Hold elections if you agree to this in a referendum.

4. Refuse to hold elections if you don't agree in the referendum.

And we can't tell you how we're going to rig the parliament till after we've taken power (which means Thai people would never accept it, if they were told, so they need control of the military to fight the civil war that would ensue).

"Yingluck should make the sacrifice of withdrawing from power,"

Man, I had my bet on him saying "for the good of the people", damn. Instead he went for the "sacrifice" angle.

Edited May 3, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[somjitr]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's acceptance make it legal?

Edited May 3, 2014 by somjitr

[khwaibah]

Another 3.8 billion baht down the crapper.

[ginjag]

Abhist really struggles to extract himself from a solution that doesn't involve him being appointed PM. What a waste of space this clown is. For a brief moment you hoped he was thinking about Thailand and not about himself and his narrow band of elitist bosses.

Let's face it, he's too scared to stand.

Stand against who ??? in due course there will be no one to vote for when the courts have dismissed most of them and the party they represent, so I say wait and time will tell us the good time for fair elections with reforms already in place.

My idea of fair elections and democratic government. Fresh faces clean credentials, new start for Thailand. We do not need all this crap going on.

[h90]

I assume this referendum on proposed reforms would be like the last one - no campaigning against it and if the ppl say no to it the 'neutral government' stay in place until the ppl say yes?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Which referendum was without campaigning against it?

If you mean the 2007 constitution: there was campaigning against it.

And if people would have voted against it, they would have got a slight modified 1997 constitution and the reform government would have made elections as well....they told that several times.

And on the 1997 constitution which Thaksin loves because there are less checks and balances there was no referendum at all.....

[terryp]

looks like civil war is on the cards..Shinwatras will never agree to most of this which is basically the same as Suthep has been marching for

[fab4]

"Yingluck should make the sacrifice of withdrawing from power," he said, explaining his roadmap is inspired by the fear of spiralling political violence, which has so far left at least 25 people dead and hundreds wounded.

She did. An election was held. You boycotted it. Remember?

[ginjag]

But pretty much as expected, same thing:

1. Yingluk must resign, so we put in a neutral PM, chosen by the Partisan Senate we now control.

2. Rig the Parliament the way we rigged the Senate so we control it.

3. Hold elections if you agree to this in a referendum.

4. Refuse to hold elections if you don't agree in the referendum.

And we can't tell you how we're going to rig the parliament till after we've taken power (which means Thai people would never accept it, if they were told, so they need control of the military to fight the civil war that would ensue).

"Yingluck should make the sacrifice of withdrawing from power,"

Man, I had my bet on him saying "for the good of the people", damn. Instead he went for the "sacrifice" angle.

Simple in business if you mismanage --you are out.

You are taking about a government that is out of favour only--this is not the case---recognize it.

if you plunder you do not ask to be reinstated, you know your days are numbered---LEAVE get out save face.

[Lite Beer]

Abhisit proposes PM to resign, interim govt to carry out urgent reform

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party leader Saturday proposed that the caretaker government should resign to pave way for an establishment of an interim administration to carry out an urgent reform before holding a new election.

The post-election government must spend another to carry out further reforms and then dissolve the House and hold another election, Abhisit proposed.

The proposals were parts of ten-point blueprint for bringing Thailand out of the political deadlock drafted by Abhisit after he held meetings with some political parties and some government agencies.

Abhisit raised the following proposals:

1) The enactment of election royal decree must be postponed.

2) The Election Commission must issue regulations for improving the electoral system.

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

4) The reform master plan must be sent for a national referendum within 90 days.

5) The atmosphere of peaceful and orderly election should be created during the referendum time.

6) The prime minister must resign and the Senate speaker must nominate a nonpartisan prime minister for King's approval.

7) The interim nonpartisan government must focus on reforms and solve urgent problems.

8) After the reforms are done, a new election must be held in 45 to 60 days. The new government must carry out further reforms or else the coalition leader and partners must be dissolved and banned from election.

9) The new government must complete reforms in one year and dissolve the House and hold a new election under new election rules.

10) Reforms must be carried out on the remaining issues after the second election.



-- The Nation 2014-05-03

[BlueNoseCodger]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's accpetance make it legal?

It wouldn't, he wants her to resign so he can do a section 180 and remove the interim government. The so called "create a power vacuum" demand from Suthep.

Section 180. Ministers vacate office en masse upon:

(1) the termination of ministership of the Prime Minister under section 182;

The Senate is half appointed and in power. The appointment committee for the senate is controlled by their man. Giving them a rigged Senate.

And the Independent agencies are chosen by this rigged senate.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

So without a government in power, who would appoint an interim PM? The only people around are the Senate, and now they control the Senate leader Abhisit says Senate Leader will choose (based on no legal basis at all). i.e. their man chooses the PM with a fake veneer of independence.

It's clear when he says that after she's resigned and they have power, only then will they discuss what reforms to do. The big thing that power gives them is control of the military. The problem with this coup, is the generals just don't want to go on a kill spree like 2010. So they've been reluctant all along. With Prayuth being the man on the fence. Abhisit/Suthep backer lost influence over the military.

The independent agencies are afraid of removing a government of the people on the excuse of "they moved a civil servant", or "they voted to make the senate elected" etc. Without the military to protect them, they are afraid their lies will land them in jail or worse.

So Abhisit wants control of the military, and that re-establishes control of the independent agencies, and have enough fire power to support a judicial coup. He will have to rig the Parliament and Government to regain power in any future elected government, that will inevitably lead to large scale protests, and in turn he needs to be able to do a military crackdown.

I'm mentioned this before, a coup of a minority over a majority requires the minority have enough weapons to cover the kill ratio. So a coup of 10k people can overpower a population of 100k, but only if they have 10 times or greater the killing power. That needs a well armed army, with willing soldiers and in turn that needs him to grab power and control of that army.

Edited May 3, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[WoopyDoo]

A more acceptable version of Suthep's demands.

Elections can be within 4.5 to 5 months, which is a lot less than 18 months.

Yingluck knows she is gone anyway, so maybe a little dignity can be preserved if she jumps first.

Half the cabinet are also earmarked to be chopped (if not the lot) and they know it... So same as above really.

If Sutheo accepts all this and agrees to end the PDRC protests and can manage to persuade Buddha Isara to do the same.

This will really put the onus on YL.

Let's hope there is lots of positive feedback from all the other sectors (military, other parties and PDRC/PCAD, EC).

We all know the alternative...... just need to cast your minds back to Feb.

Nice one Abhisit.

[Mango Bob]

Abhisit has waste the time of many people. His plan is unconstitutional. His plan is so close to Suthep plan of an unelected government. You want reforms it must be reforms from the people not from a few selected. The people have a right to vote for the government and the reforms they want. Not accept what the elite want it to be. Abhisit better you boycott the elections. Elections first then reforms and the people vote for the reforms then a new election. Nothing else is acceptable.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Mango Bob

[ginjag]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's accpetance make it legal?

It wouldn't, he wants her to resign so he can do a section 180 and remove the interim government. The so called "create a power vacuum" demand from Suthep.

Section 180. Ministers vacate office en masse upon:

(1) the termination of ministership of the Prime Minister under section 182;

The Senate is half appointed and in power. The appointment committee for the senate is controlled by their man. Giving them a rigged Senate.

And the Independent agencies are chosen by this rigged senate.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

So without a government in power, who would appoint an interim PM? The only people around are the Senate, and now they control the Senate leader Abhisit says Senate Leader will choose (based on no legal basis at all). i.e. their man chooses the PM with a fake veneer of independence.

It's clear when he says that after she's resigned and they have power, only then will they discuss what reforms to do. The big thing that power gives them is control of the military. The problem with this coup, is the generals just don't want to go on a kill spree like 2010. So they've been reluctant all along. With Prayuth being the man on the fence. Abhisit/Suthep backer lost influence over the military.

The independent agencies are afraid of removing a government of the people on the excuse of "they moved a civil servant", or "they voted to make the senate elected" etc. Without the military to protect them, they are afraid their lies will land them in jail or worse.

So Abhisit wants control of the military, and that re-establishes control of the independent agencies, and have enough fire power to support a judicial coup.

I'm mentioned this before, a coup of a minority over a majority requires the minority have enough weapons to cover the kill ratio. So a coup of 10k people can overpower a population of 100k, if they have 10 times or greater the killing power. That needs an army, and in turn that needs him to grab power.

There has been too much debate on this issue, really it is quite clear .

elected government does not fulfill it's obligation to govern fairly as per rule and decree.

it is found over 3 years to go against the law after being warned by so many.

Corruption levels like never before.

Not keeping records of contracts on VIP issues.

Bull dozing through bills in parliament without adequate debate

Election promises that were never kept or paid for.

Because of all that has happened and as I said the government self destructed there HAS to be mega reforms to set Thailand on the straight and narrow.

All the debate about Suthep and democratic elections held quickly is a ploy to overlook the wrongs.

Sorry if this does not fit your agenda pro gov posters.

[Tatsujin]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's accpetance make it legal?

It wouldn't, he wants her to resign so he can do a section 180 and remove the interim government. The so called "create a power vacuum" demand from Suthep.

Section 180. Ministers vacate office en masse upon:

(1) the termination of ministership of the Prime Minister under section 182;

The Senate is half appointed and in power. The appointment committee for the senate is controlled by their man. Giving them a rigged Senate.

And the Independent agencies are chosen by this rigged senate.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

So without a government in power, who would appoint an interim PM? The only people around are the Senate, and now they control the Senate leader Abhisit says Senate Leader will choose (based on no legal basis at all). i.e. their man chooses the PM with a fake veneer of independence.

It's clear when he says that after she's resigned and they have power, only then will they discuss what reforms to do. The big thing that power gives them is control of the military. The problem with this coup, is the generals just don't want to go on a kill spree like 2010. So they've been reluctant all along. With Prayuth being the man on the fence. Abhisit/Suthep backer lost influence over the military.

The independent agencies are afraid of removing a government of the people on the excuse of "they moved a civil servant", or "they voted to make the senate elected" etc. Without the military to protect them, they are afraid their lies will land them in jail or worse.

So Abhisit wants control of the military, and that re-establishes control of the independent agencies, and have enough fire power to support a judicial coup. He will have to rig the Parliament and Government to regain power in any future elected government, that will inevitably lead to large scale protests, and in turn he needs to be able to do a military crackdown.

I'm mentioned this before, a coup of a minority over a majority requires the minority have enough weapons to cover the kill ratio. So a coup of 10k people can overpower a population of 100k, but only if they have 10 times or greater the killing power. That needs a well armed army, with willing soldiers and in turn that needs him to grab power and control of that army.

OK Bangkok Pundit, who's this mysterious person who's controlling the Senate appointment committee?

[BlueNoseCodger]

A more acceptable version of Suthep's demands.

Elections can be within 4.5 to 5 months, which is a lot less than 18 months.

Yingluck knows she is gone anyway, so maybe a little dignity can be preserved if she jumps first.

Half the cabinet are also earmarked to be chopped (if not the lot) and they know it... So same as above really.

If Sutheo accepts all this and agrees to end the PDRC protests and can manage to persuade Buddha Isara to do the same.

This will really put the onus on YL.

Let's hope there is lots of positive feedback from all the other sectors (military, other parties and PDRC/PCAD, EC).

We all know the alternative...... just need to cast your minds back to Feb.

Nice one Abhisit.

(military, other parties and PDRC/PCAD, EC).

That's very telling. You didn't list Courts, or Thai Voters or any political party in that. You also grouped PDRC/PCAD as if they were one, which they are of course.

5 months, 18 months, once they have non-elected power, they'll never give it up. See the unelected senate for an example of that. They'll simply rig the Parliament and the Cabinet as they did the Senate (aka 'reform')

That in turn would lead to Civil War, I guess its time to look at the war numbers.

Edited May 3, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[Tatsujin]

Abhisit has waste the time of many people. His plan is unconstitutional. His plan is so close to Suthep plan of an unelected government. You want reforms it must be reforms from the people not from a few selected. The people have a right to vote for the government and the reforms they want. Not accept what the elite want it to be. Abhisit better you boycott the elections. Elections first then reforms and the people vote for the reforms then a new election. Nothing else is acceptable.

Reforms first, then elections. Nothing else is acceptable.

[See the bears]

A more acceptable version of Suthep's demands.

Elections can be within 4.5 to 5 months, which is a lot less than 18 months.

Yingluck knows she is gone anyway, so maybe a little dignity can be preserved if she jumps first.

Half the cabinet are also earmarked to be chopped (if not the lot) and they know it... So same as above really.

If Sutheo accepts all this and agrees to end the PDRC protests and can manage to persuade Buddha Isara to do the same.

This will really put the onus on YL.

Let's hope there is lots of positive feedback from all the other sectors (military, other parties and PDRC/PCAD, EC).

We all know the alternative...... just need to cast your minds back to Feb.

Nice one Abhisit.

How are things in Lala land?

[BillyBobThai]

For a different take on this whole situation, let's take the winner of last years Tiffany's ladyboy contest and make he/she/it the, new PM. It could appoint all of the ministers and we would have a colorful group with attitude. Be something different anyway.

[WoopyDoo]

A more acceptable version of Suthep's demands.

Elections can be within 4.5 to 5 months, which is a lot less than 18 months.

Yingluck knows she is gone anyway, so maybe a little dignity can be preserved if she jumps first.

Half the cabinet are also earmarked to be chopped (if not the lot) and they know it... So same as above really.

If Sutheo accepts all this and agrees to end the PDRC protests and can manage to persuade Buddha Isara to do the same.

This will really put the onus on YL.

Let's hope there is lots of positive feedback from all the other sectors (military, other parties and PDRC/PCAD, EC).

We all know the alternative...... just need to cast your minds back to Feb.

Nice one Abhisit.

How are things in Lala land?

Dunno.... I am still waiting for you to send me a postcard.

[somjitr]

I assume this referendum on proposed reforms would be like the last one - no campaigning against it and if the ppl say no to it the 'neutral government' stay in place until the ppl say yes?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Which referendum was without campaigning against it?

If you mean the 2007 constitution: there was campaigning against it.

And if people would have voted against it, they would have got a slight modified 1997 constitution and the reform government would have made elections as well....they told that several times.

And on the 1997 constitution which Thaksin loves because there are less checks and balances there was no referendum at all.....

There were clear restrictions against campaigning to reject the 2007 constitution draft. The information is easy to find if you care to do a simple search. Try "2007 Constitution of Thailand".

The referendum was hardly democratic when martial laws were in place half the country and campaigning to reject the draft was outlawed.

[DirtFarmer]

HOAX

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

Well that puts the wolf in the henhouse just fine eh? The good People Suthep's Lot

Fail Abhisit fail... but then that was the intention wasn't it.. Propose something you know will not fly in order to not particip[ate in the elections..

How is this in any way shape or form is this " Launching his well-trailed proposal to ease the crisis..."

Edited May 3, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[Lite Beer]

Abhisit unveils his nine-point political roadmap

Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva today (Saturday) proposed his nine-point political roadmap which, among them, calls for the resignation of caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and her cabinet, slowing down the election and setting up a neutral interim government and a reform council.

“I would like to ask Khun Yingluck ( the prime minister) whether it is possible that she just step aside for 5-6 months. Khun Yingluck should be aware of her own status which is hanging in uncertainty and is unable to function fully,” said Abisit.

He insisted that the country would stand to benefit fully from his proposed roadmap. “There will be reform, election but no coup and no bloodshed,” he said, adding that he would take this opportunity to ask People’s Democratic Reform Committee secretary-general Suthep Thuagsuban not to reject this proposal outright but to take into consideration if the government responds positively to his proposed roadmap.

Abhisit explained that the neutral interim government must be acceptable to all stakeholders and that its scope of duty and responsibility must be clearly confined to working reform, holding referendum to endorse the reform and staging the election.

He explained that, under his proposed roadmap, the reform process would take 18 months after which an election will be staged within 150-180 days.

The Democrat leader said that his proposed roadmap, if accepted by all the stakeholders, especially the government and the PDRC, would prevent possible bloodshed and a coup.

As for himself, Abhisit said he would not benefit anything from the proposed roadmap but the country would. Under the present political impasse where there is no way out, he said he could not afford just to sit idly by and decided to step in to do his part to help resolve the conflict.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/abhisit-unveils-nine-point-political-roadmap/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=abhisit-unveils-nine-point-political-roadmap

-- Thai PBS 2014-05-03

[AleG]

Abhisit proposes PM to resign, interim govt to carry out urgent reform

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party leader Saturday proposed that the caretaker government should resign to pave way for an establishment of an interim administration to carry out an urgent reform before holding a new election.

The post-election government must spend another to carry out further reforms and then dissolve the House and hold another election, Abhisit proposed.

The proposals were parts of ten-point blueprint for bringing Thailand out of the political deadlock drafted by Abhisit after he held meetings with some political parties and some government agencies.

Abhisit raised the following proposals:

1) The enactment of election royal decree must be postponed.

2) The Election Commission must issue regulations for improving the electoral system.

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

4) The reform master plan must be sent for a national referendum within 90 days.

5) The atmosphere of peaceful and orderly election should be created during the referendum time.

6) The prime minister must resign and the Senate speaker must nominate a nonpartisan prime minister for King's approval.

7) The interim nonpartisan government must focus on reforms and solve urgent problems.

8) After the reforms are done, a new election must be held in 45 to 60 days. The new government must carry out further reforms or else the coalition leader and partners must be dissolved and banned from election.

9) The new government must complete reforms in one year and dissolve the House and hold a new election under new election rules.

10) Reforms must be carried out on the remaining issues after the second election.

-- The Nation 2014-05-03

Way to go Abhisit, you completely blew it with point #3.

[TimCM]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's accpetance make it legal?

It wouldn't, he wants her to resign so he can do a section 180 and remove the interim government. The so called "create a power vacuum" demand from Suthep.

Section 180. Ministers vacate office en masse upon:

(1) the termination of ministership of the Prime Minister under section 182;

The Senate is half appointed and in power. The appointment committee for the senate is controlled by their man. Giving them a rigged Senate.

And the Independent agencies are chosen by this rigged senate.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

So without a government in power, who would appoint an interim PM? The only people around are the Senate, and now they control the Senate leader Abhisit says Senate Leader will choose (based on no legal basis at all). i.e. their man chooses the PM with a fake veneer of independence.

It's clear when he says that after she's resigned and they have power, only then will they discuss what reforms to do. The big thing that power gives them is control of the military. The problem with this coup, is the generals just don't want to go on a kill spree like 2010. So they've been reluctant all along. With Prayuth being the man on the fence. Abhisit/Suthep backer lost influence over the military.

The independent agencies are afraid of removing a government of the people on the excuse of "they moved a civil servant", or "they voted to make the senate elected" etc. Without the military to protect them, they are afraid their lies will land them in jail or worse.

So Abhisit wants control of the military, and that re-establishes control of the independent agencies, and have enough fire power to support a judicial coup.

I'm mentioned this before, a coup of a minority over a majority requires the minority have enough weapons to cover the kill ratio. So a coup of 10k people can overpower a population of 100k, if they have 10 times or greater the killing power. That needs an army, and in turn that needs him to grab power.

There has been too much debate on this issue, really it is quite clear .

elected government does not fulfill it's obligation to govern fairly as per rule and decree.

it is found over 3 years to go against the law after being warned by so many.

Corruption levels like never before.

Not keeping records of contracts on VIP issues.

Bull dozing through bills in parliament without adequate debate

Election promises that were never kept or paid for.

Because of all that has happened and as I said the government self destructed there HAS to be mega reforms to set Thailand on the straight and narrow.

All the debate about Suthep and democratic elections held quickly is a ploy to overlook the wrongs.

Sorry if this does not fit your agenda pro gov posters.

Which is why if the opposition put up some reasonable policies, they would win an election easily. Instead they just want their turn at the trough.

Besides, if you are so worried about corruption, why would you want the yellows (clearly not democratic) back in as they, including Suthep were corrupt when they were in power and have had no reform since

[JesseFrank]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's accpetance make it legal?

It wouldn't, he wants her to resign so he can do a section 180 and remove the interim government. The so called "create a power vacuum" demand from Suthep.

Section 180. Ministers vacate office en masse upon:

(1) the termination of ministership of the Prime Minister under section 182;

The Senate is half appointed and in power. The appointment committee for the senate is controlled by their man. Giving them a rigged Senate.

And the Independent agencies are chosen by this rigged senate.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

So without a government in power, who would appoint an interim PM? The only people around are the Senate, and now they control the Senate leader Abhisit says Senate Leader will choose (based on no legal basis at all). i.e. their man chooses the PM with a fake veneer of independence.

It's clear when he says that after she's resigned and they have power, only then will they discuss what reforms to do. The big thing that power gives them is control of the military. The problem with this coup, is the generals just don't want to go on a kill spree like 2010. So they've been reluctant all along. With Prayuth being the man on the fence. Abhisit/Suthep backer lost influence over the military.

The independent agencies are afraid of removing a government of the people on the excuse of "they moved a civil servant", or "they voted to make the senate elected" etc. Without the military to protect them, they are afraid their lies will land them in jail or worse.

So Abhisit wants control of the military, and that re-establishes control of the independent agencies, and have enough fire power to support a judicial coup. He will have to rig the Parliament and Government to regain power in any future elected government, that will inevitably lead to large scale protests, and in turn he needs to be able to do a military crackdown.

I'm mentioned this before, a coup of a minority over a majority requires the minority have enough weapons to cover the kill ratio. So a coup of 10k people can overpower a population of 100k, but only if they have 10 times or greater the killing power. That needs a well armed army, with willing soldiers and in turn that needs him to grab power and control of that army.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

Now that is the part that really hurts, as he was a known Shinawatra lackey, isn't it.

[Just1Voice]

Can you spell - C I V I L W A R?