World turns focus on Thailand, but real drama has only just begun

[leggo]

Well it's been on BBC headline news every day since the courts decision but it should be said you can't really compare CNN and Fox with such an illustrious news station. There is so much going on in the world to-day of more importance than what is happening here; but all the same when a sovreign country starts descending into chaos and anarchy it would be considered imprudent for the worlds superpowers to ignore it as these things have a terribly nasty habit of spreading like wildfire -witness the north african crisis, the middle east etc. America will be monitoring the Thai situation very closely for this very reason. I would also suggest the comment made insinuating that America does not have friends is not correct; Great Britain and the USA have stood side by side as friends for many decades holding the same cultural values to protect democracy, defend the sick and the poor and uphold human rights. There are many of us whose parents fought along side each other in many wars and those bonds are not easily forgotten!

Edited May 9, 2014 by leggo

[bigbamboo]

I agree. The court ruling is so ridiculous for removing a high rank person who is managing the country.

Like Nixon you mean.

[TomJoad]

We are not sure whether the Thai Foreign Ministry - or any other Foreign Ministry in the world - has a policy of issuing a statement every time the US suffers an internal crisis, and also suggesting how Washington might resolve its domestic affairs.

When you consider yourself...to be the world's greatest military and financial center...then it follows...that you feel compelled to repeat the same mistakes over and over...spying...meddling...giving unwanted advice...and being a general pain in the butt...

We just figure that since we did such a good job fixing Iraq...

Edited May 9, 2014 by TomJoad

[Baerboxer]

Very amazing to see that only financial institute not happy with court ruling.....

Indeed - including that bastion of justice and ethical behavior - Credit Suisse! Their recent record clearly speaks for itself.

[Cricketnut]

The world, if one actually exists outside of LoS, is focused on the country.

TAT officials must be wetting themselves with excitement. Now all they need to do is find ' the world ' on a map.

Yes there is this Germany where the Mercedes come from and that Ameriga where that English language comes from, but I doubt there is much more outside Thailand and if than just uncivilized Barbarians.

Everyone must know that Thailand is the center of the world.

What English language came from America lol I think not.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Cricketnut]

Well it's been on BBC headline news every day since the courts decision but it should be said you can't really compare CNN and Fox with such an illustrious news station. There is so much going on in the world to-day of more importance than what is happening here; but all the same when a sovreign country starts descending into chaos and anarchy it would be considered imprudent for the worlds superpowers to ignore it as these things have a terribly nasty habit of spreading like wildfire -witness the north african crisis, the middle east etc. America will be monitoring the Thai situation very closely for this very reason. I would also suggest the comment made insinuating that America does not have friends is not correct; Great Britain and the USA have stood side by side as friends for many decades holding the same cultural values to protect democracy, defend the sick and the poor and uphold human rights. There are many of us whose parents fought along side each other in many wars and those bonds are not easily forgotten!

And you forgot to mention the Anzacs..

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Cricketnut]

i hope political types don't really believe the United States gives a right F__K who is in power in Thailand.

having a lot more experience with the differences in what the U.S. says publically and does privately than most in my previous carrer, i can absolutely assure you that the only real concern the U.S. government has about what happens in Thailand and Thai politics is that it be kept

• peaceful
• quiet
• out of the way
• and not bother the U.S. business and it's allies

Those and that anything the Thais do is of no concern to the U.S. just as long it doesn't give political problems for the administration in power in Washington.

If the Thais think anything else concerns the American government, they are truely being nieve.

As an American with some experience in the real thoughts of U.S. politicians and what they say publicly I know very well that the U.S has allies, but not friends.

And when that ally causes problems for the U.S. government. it is ti,r to throe that ally to go away and be quiet.

Yes we can all tell by your grammar mistakes. What level did you leave school in America, elementary perhaps.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ginjag]

The world, if one actually exists outside of LoS, is focused on the country.

TAT officials must be wetting themselves with excitement. Now all they need to do is find ' the world ' on a map.

Yes there is this Germany where the Mercedes come from and that Ameriga where that English language comes from, but I doubt there is much more outside Thailand and if than just uncivilized Barbarians.

Everyone must know that Thailand is the center of the world.

What English language came from America lol I think not.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

He's right ---gimme 5 gimmme10---ya know what I mean, tonite- how yaol doin

[wandasloan]

Yes we can all tell by your grammar mistakes. What level did you leave school in America, elementary perhaps.

It is your wish to be judged by your grammar mistakes, then.

One presumes you didn't quite make it through elementary.

It is always silly to wave a red flag and invite ridicule. Because it is always so simple. To actually attack someone over grammar in an internet forum just has to be about as silly as it ever gets. But then someone who makes grammar errors like you, I suppose silliness is just a way of life.

.

[fab4]

Did I imagine things or did I distinctly remember the usual suspects declaring to the forum that nobody outside of Thailand was taking any notice of the political situation in Thailand?

Silly post. Taking notice and interfering is not the same. Many posters say that the outside world doesn't interfere (don't want to say things that could be used by either party to incite their followers) with Thailand's issues because they know it is complex and both groups have their rights and wrongs. You are purposely mixing those two in order to make a smart ass comment. Stop misleading posters here on TV.

I must say, you rubl and ginjag must be easily misled. Then again, you've already demonstrated that.

Who said anything about interfering? - so the silly post argument is indeed just that, silly.

Many posters have said that the world is not interested in the judicial coup happening here. I beg to differ, if thats OK with you three.

[ginjag]

Did I imagine things or did I distinctly remember the usual suspects declaring to the forum that nobody outside of Thailand was taking any notice of the political situation in Thailand?

Silly post. Taking notice and interfering is not the same. Many posters say that the outside world doesn't interfere (don't want to say things that could be used by either party to incite their followers) with Thailand's issues because they know it is complex and both groups have their rights and wrongs. You are purposely mixing those two in order to make a smart ass comment. Stop misleading posters here on TV.

I must say, you rubl and ginjag must be easily misled. Then again, you've already demonstrated that.

Who said anything about interfering? - so the silly post argument is indeed just that, silly.

Many posters have said that the world is not interested in the judicial coup happening here. I beg to differ, if thats OK with you three.

Do not involve me in your rant, Have I posted in any form about INTERFERING. you have to shut it.

I thought we are all on your ignore list, so how have you acquired all those posts. Give it a break will you --post honestly on topics, if not there will be oodles of posters starting to use the report button, You are on here to stir the dung if not let up.

I am on TVF to talk re topics especially the governing party that I attack because of what wrong they do NOT for the sake of it.

You are posting to ONLY to defend a government, and deny any wrongs, attacking anyone to point out discrepancies. When they reply you usually tell them they are yellow shirt-Suthep lovers--as though we are troublemakers. Most posters have noticed who are troublemaking. Different thinking Do not forget I post on most topics over years. YOU near post on denial on gov topic posts, for some reason.

[leggo]

@cricketnut- I didn't deliberately forget the Anzacs- who could ever forget some of the bravest men and women the world has ever known - apologies mate!

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[fab4]

Do not involve me in your rant, Have I posted in any form about INTERFERING. you have to shut it.

I thought we are all on your ignore list, so how have you acquired all those posts. Give it a break will you --post honestly on topics, if not there will be oodles of posters starting to use the report button, You are on here to stir the dung if not let up.

I am on TVF to talk re topics especially the governing party that I attack because of what wrong they do NOT for the sake of it.

You are posting to ONLY to defend a government, and deny any wrongs, attacking anyone to point out discrepancies. When they reply you usually tell them they are yellow shirt-Suthep lovers--as though we are troublemakers. Most posters have noticed who are troublemaking. Different thinking Do not forget I post on most topics over years. YOU near post on denial on gov topic posts, for some reason.

You "like" posts you agree with the content of that post. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/724740-world-turns-focus-on-thailand-but-real-drama-has-only-just-begun/#entry7796042 Deal with it.

Edited May 9, 2014 by fab4

[KarenBravo]

"We continue to urge all sides to resolve Thailand's political tensions in a peaceful and democratic manner so that the Thai people can choose political leadership they deserve,"

The Thais have always chosen the political leadership that they deserve.

[Mister Fixit]

Yes there is this Germany where the Mercedes come from and that Ameriga where that English language comes from, but I doubt there is much more outside Thailand and if than just uncivilized Barbarians.

Everyone must know that Thailand is the center of the world.

Er, I don't think so, ignoramus ...

Last time I looked it came from where I come from - England ... You're Thai, aren't you? See previous posts re Thai lack of knowledge of geography, history, or pretty much anything that required thinking processes ...

Oh, and by the way, it's America - you have to be Thai using gor gai instead of a hard 'c'. Like, er, kor kwai ...?

Foot - shoot - BULLSEYE!!!!

Edited May 9, 2014 by Mister Fixit

[bunuel]

Very well put.

To the BBC, you can add editorials in the Wall Street Journal, The NY TIMES, THE ECONOMIST, and features on Bloomberg and Al Jazeera. Ir would be fair to say that most were very critical of the decision by the Thai courts to depose the democratically elected government of Yingluck Shinawatra. Thus far, the government has won the international public relations war by a wide margin.

Does this matter? Well, international image certainly matters to the corporations and companies that spend billions of dollars on public relations and advertising. And it would also seem to matter in Thailand, judgiibg by the defamation laws in the books.

Whether or not this will lead to active meddling in Thai affaiirs is uncertain, but corporations and companies generally like to protect their investments, and there are many major foreign investments in Thailand. The US, in particular, has been a very good friend to Thailand ever since the end of World War Ii, when the Americans talked the Brits out of occupying Thailand as an ally of Japan.

Some may have forgotten these things, but many have not. Like all countries, Thailand does not live ib a vacuum.

Well it's been on BBC headline news every day since the courts decision but it should be said you can't really compare CNN and Fox with such an illustrious news station. There is so much going on in the world to-day of more importance than what is happening here; but all the same when a sovreign country starts descending into chaos and anarchy it would be considered imprudent for the worlds superpowers to ignore it as these things have a terribly nasty habit of spreading like wildfire -witness the north african crisis, the middle east etc. America will be monitoring the Thai situation very closely for this very reason. I would also suggest the comment made insinuating that America does not have friends is not correct; Great Britain and the USA have stood side by side as friends for many decades holding the same cultural values to protect democracy, defend the sick and the poor and uphold human rights. There are many of us whose parents fought along side each other in many wars and those bonds are not easily forgotten!

[farang62]

Interesting read!

When will we learn?

America's Achilles Heart
by Harlan Ullman
Washington DC (UPI) May 06, 2014


disclaimer: image is for illustration purposes only

According to mythology, the otherwise invincible Achilles had one fatal vulnerability: his heel. America has several vulnerabilities. Perhaps the most ironic is its heart.

Since 1789, ambivalence over America's international role and responsibilities has persisted. This tension can be captured in terms of George Washington's pragmatism not to seek permanent entanglements abroad and Woodrow Wilson's idealism in fighting the "war to end all wars" to make "the world safe for democracy." Washington's argument was amplified by John Quincy Adams' warning against seeking foreign monsters to slay. Unfortunately, presidents from John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson to George W. Bush were deaf to such wisdom.

Americans have often been seduced or mesmerized by the siren-like call of aiding democracies and especially those pleading for help in establishing them. Foreign wars that eventually would embroil America attracted some of its youth. American pilots flew in the Lafayette Escadrille in the First World War and the Eagle Squadron and Flying Tigers two decades later whether for altruistic reasons of protecting democracy and freedom or by the exhilaration of war. Interestingly, genocides and revolutions in Africa and Latin America lacked the magnetism of stopping the Hun, Hitler and Tojo's Japan.

After World War II, the United States willingly became the imposer of democracy. Nazi Germany, Fascist Japan and eventually South Korea would become pluralistic democracies under the rule of law in which elections and not the barrel of a gun determined who would govern. Those successes were absorbed into the nation's political DNA. The Cold War was about preventing "Godless communism" from spreading. And when the Berlin Wall came down, transforming the former captive states from Marxism to democracy was the first step in making Europe "whole and free."

Yet, there were more failures than successes in aiding democracy. Vietnam was America's first outright defeat and symptom of an Achilles' heart. I recall too well in the 1960's providing security for then Vice President Hubert Humphrey as he toured Vietnam vigorously cajoling the Vietnamese to vote. If the polls were correct, over 90% did. And of that 90% perhaps only a handful knew what or why they were voting.

George W. Bush wanted to transform the geostrategic landscape of the Middle East by imposing democracy on Iraq and Afghanistan. Misled or suckered by Ahmed Chalabi, certainly the Vice President and Mr. Bush believed (or wished) the Iraqi people would greet Americans as liberators showering the conquering heroes with flowers and candy. Instead, more plentiful were suicide bombers and improvised explosive devices (IED) that are producing a condition of permanent violence and civil war in Iraq.

While Afghans just voted, elections are not always synonymous with or indicative of democracy and the rule of law. Yet Vice President Humphrey's exultations for the Vietnamese to vote echoed in the cities and villages of Afghanistan. And when elections in Egypt elevated the now declared terrorist organization the Muslim Brotherhood to power, no one in the White House was really sorry to see the Army take over the running of the country. Even though the former Army chief abandoned his uniform for mufti and will become Egypt's next president, does anyone seriously believe real democracy is close at hand in that country?

Ukraine has now drawn the sympathy and support of some Americans. Protesters in Kiev's Maidan Square pleaded for establishing a real democracy. And who would oppose those genuine sentiments in the land of the free and the home of the brave? Unfortunately, reality injects itself. Ukraine lacks the basic institutions and structures essential for creating a real rather than a sham democracy. The election of one of Ukraine's richest oligarchs as president next month a democracy does not make.

Can we protect our national Achilles heart? Unless we learn from history, the answer is a resounding no. World War II was unique. Germany and Japan were helpless and at the mercy of the allies. Both had institutions needed for a democracy to flourish and earlier experience with a pluralistic political system before Hitler and the Japanese military took control. The U.S. also extended great largesse to rebuild and reshape those societies.

Similarly, when the Berlin Wall came down, West Germany had the capacity to absorb the east. The other former iron curtain states had institutions and some experience with democracy. So that transformation was successful.

In Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, our Achilles heart proved catastrophic. And if America was really serious about imposing democracy, perhaps the Middle East and Israel and Palestine might look quite different. Washington and Adams were generally correct. Only in very special or ideal circumstances can democracy be externally imposed. But will we learn?

____________________________________________________________________

Harlan Ullman is Chairman of the Killowen Group that advises leaders of government and business, Senior Advisor at Washington D.C.'s Atlantic Council. His latest book, due out this Fall, is A Handful of Bullets: How the Murder of an Archduke a Century Ago Still Menaces Peace Today.

[citizen33]

Every day seems to bring more debate and comment in the international press. For examples, see these links:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8a3b6ed4-d6b8-11e3-b251-00144feabdc0.html#axzz31ItoLLDk

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f5a6575a-d76d-11e3-80e0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz31ItoLLDk

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/405577/judicial-coup.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/10/opinion/the-travails-of-thailand.html?_r=0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/07/yingluck-shinawatra-thai-pm-forced-to-resign_n_5278214.html

There are some trenchant comments from Prof. McCargo in one of the articles: ‘’At the root of the problem lies the disputed legitimacy of the Thai state. Is it a constitutional democracy? Or a traditional kingdom in which deference for the monarchy and attachment to notions of what it means to be Thai are more important than either laws or votes? (...) The conflict is pitting an entrenched elite that is destined to lose power against new political forces whose rise seems inexorable. Ousting Ms Yingluck on a technicality was an act of desperation, not a show of strength.”

Edited May 10, 2014 by citizen33