Switzerland rejects world's highest minimum wage

[webfact]

Switzerland rejects world's highest minimum wage

SWITZERLAND: -- Swiss voters have overwhelmingly rejected a proposal to introduce what would have been the highest minimum wage in the world in a referendum.

Under the plan, employers would have had to pay workers a minimum 22 Swiss francs (about $25; £15; 18 euros) an hour.

Supporters said the move was necessary for people to live a decent life.

But critics argued that it would raise production costs and increase unemployment.

The minimum wage proposal was rejected by 76% of voters. Supporters had argued it would "protect equitable pay" but the Swiss Business Federation said it would harm low-paid workers in particular.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27459178


-- BBC 2014-05-19

[Basil B]

how disappointing, $25 dollars an hour, every economic migrant in Europe would have been heading for the Alps.

Songatte would be a ghost town.

[AsiaCheese]

What's sadly missing in each and every report about the proposed/failed minimum wage is an indication what CHF 22 buys in Switzerland. The fact that it's the equivalent of THB 800 has nothing to do with nothing if you're at the cashier in a supermarket. The fact that a standard paper shopping bag (THB 12) with normal food stuff will set you back some THB 3,500 does... Just saying.

[nglodnig]

What is slightly skewed in the BBC report and in the argument against "low" wages generally in CH is the rent for a one-bed flat in the city-centre - CHF1800 or almost $2000 a month.

The answer is - don't live there - rents are extortionate - live out in the suburbs and commute as I do. Rent and mortagage costs can be halved by moving 20-30 km out of Zurich for example.

[Basil B]

What's sadly missing in each and every report about the proposed/failed minimum wage is an indication what CHF 22 buys in Switzerland. The fact that it's the equivalent of THB 800 has nothing to do with nothing if you're at the cashier in a supermarket. The fact that a standard paper shopping bag (THB 12) with normal food stuff will set you back some THB 3,500 does... Just saying.

And I thought it was only the ski resorts that were astronomically expensive, I never thought of our friends from Songatte renting, they normally camp, I was imagining them building igloos out on the pistes.

[AsiaCheese]

What's sadly missing in each and every report about the proposed/failed minimum wage is an indication what CHF 22 buys in Switzerland. The fact that it's the equivalent of THB 800 has nothing to do with nothing if you're at the cashier in a supermarket. The fact that a standard paper shopping bag (THB 12) with normal food stuff will set you back some THB 3,500 does... Just saying.

And I thought it was only the ski resorts that were astronomically expensive, I never thought of our friends from Songatte renting, they normally camp, I was imagining them building igloos out on the pistes.

Switzerland is orbitally expensive. But you're right - the ski resorts add some bling to even that

[Sandman77]

That's sounds high for those who never lived in Switzerland the nearly charge you everything maybe also if you own a house you must pay land tax to government , someone told me 800€! A month

Also in swiss are poor people when

Living coasts are to high!

Some say only the banks have the real money!

[Eloelo]

Does not seem particularly high as a minimum wage. and yet it was still rejected.In Oz for example a cleaner who is on a basic hourly wage of 17.95$ for working Monday -Friday 9-5 provided they do 38 hours a week, if less than 38 hours a week they get a 15% increase.if they work after 6.00pm and before 6.00am they get 15% on top. if they work on Saturday it is 1.5 times the hourly rate and on sunday it is 2x times the hourly rate, plus shift allowances if they clean bathrooms and waste removal. on top they are also paid superannuation which is 9.25% of there hourly rate are entitled to 8 sick days a year paid. 4 weeks annual leave a year paid. plus 9 public holidays a year paid. and if they work on a publick holiday it is 2.5 times there hourly rate. and if it is Christmas or good Friday it is 3 times there hourly rate.so I guess in comparison Australia would clearly be a leader in the minimum hourly rate being the highest in the world.!.which probably explains the high unemployment.....

[BKKdreaming]

what country has the highest rate now ?

or is there a list of top 10 somewhere ?

[Payboy]

I'm relieved that my supply of cheap watches is not affected.

[simple1]

Does not seem particularly high as a minimum wage. and yet it was still rejected.In Oz for example a cleaner who is on a basic hourly wage of 17.95$ for working Monday -Friday 9-5 provided they do 38 hours a week, if less than 38 hours a week they get a 15% increase.if they work after 6.00pm and before 6.00am they get 15% on top. if they work on Saturday it is 1.5 times the hourly rate and on sunday it is 2x times the hourly rate, plus shift allowances if they clean bathrooms and waste removal. on top they are also paid superannuation which is 9.25% of there hourly rate are entitled to 8 sick days a year paid. 4 weeks annual leave a year paid. plus 9 public holidays a year paid. and if they work on a publick holiday it is 2.5 times there hourly rate. and if it is Christmas or good Friday it is 3 times there hourly rate.so I guess in comparison Australia would clearly be a leader in the minimum hourly rate being the highest in the world.!.which probably explains the high unemployment.....

My wife has over the years worked as a room attendant in Australia. Many of the hotel chains have implemented their own contracts (to circumvent union influence) and the T&C's nowhere near match the conditions you quote. e.g. for weekend work they use casual partime staff to avoid the weekend or public holiday rates or the contract states a flat hourly rate no matter the days worked. Often the cleaners are required to clean 20+ rooms a day, under tremendous pressure from hotel management. It is very physical work & given the number of rooms that must be cleaned per day to retain employment means that they can only afford a 30 minute rest/meal break, or less, in 8 hours of continual work. The chemicals used lead to medical conditions on a regular basis.

The trend is now to employ cleaners on a ABN contract basis at A$21 per hour (supplying their own chemicals etc), thereby a further mechanism to expunge the terms you refer to above. Also many service companies pay way below the minimum wage as they know many of the low skilled are desperate for employment in an endeavour to escape Centrelink Newstart payments that are significantly below the official poverty line.

The proposition that 'high minimum wages’ leads to high unemployment is a furphy promulgated by employer groups. Right now unemployment in Oz is running at around 5.5%, forecast to temporarily increase to approx 6.3% over the next few years

[Eloelo]

Does not seem particularly high as a minimum wage. and yet it was still rejected.In Oz for example a cleaner who is on a basic hourly wage of 17.95$ for working Monday -Friday 9-5 provided they do 38 hours a week, if less than 38 hours a week they get a 15% increase.if they work after 6.00pm and before 6.00am they get 15% on top. if they work on Saturday it is 1.5 times the hourly rate and on sunday it is 2x times the hourly rate, plus shift allowances if they clean bathrooms and waste removal. on top they are also paid superannuation which is 9.25% of there hourly rate are entitled to 8 sick days a year paid. 4 weeks annual leave a year paid. plus 9 public holidays a year paid. and if they work on a publick holiday it is 2.5 times there hourly rate. and if it is Christmas or good Friday it is 3 times there hourly rate.so I guess in comparison Australia would clearly be a leader in the minimum hourly rate being the highest in the world.!.which probably explains the high unemployment.....

My wife has over the years worked as a room attendant in Australia. Many of the hotel chains have implemented their own contracts (to circumvent union influence) and the T&C's nowhere near match the conditions you quote. e.g. for weekend work they use casual partime staff to avoid the weekend or public holiday rates or the contract states a flat hourly rate no matter the days worked. Often the cleaners are required to clean 20+ rooms a day, under tremendous pressure from hotel management. It is very physical work & given the number of rooms that must be cleaned per day to retain employment means that they can only afford a 30 minute rest/meal break, or less, in 8 hours of continual work. The chemicals used lead to medical conditions on a regular basis.

The trend is now to employ cleaners on a ABN contract basis at A$21 per hour (supplying their own chemicals etc), thereby a further mechanism to expunge the terms you refer to above. Also many service companies pay way below the minimum wage as they know many of the low skilled are desperate for employment in an endeavour to escape Centrelink Newstart payments that are significantly below the official poverty line.

The proposition that 'high minimum wages’ leads to high unemployment is a furphy promulgated by employer groups. Right now unemployment in Oz is running at around 5.5%, forecast to temporarily increase to approx 6.3% over the next few years

The rates quoted above are the legal minimum award rates to be paid to cleaners who are employed by an official employer under state and federal agreements. The ABN sub contractor worker is not an employee. The tax office has deemed that ABN Contractors are working illegally and that the employers who employ these subcontractors are paying illegally and avoiding entitlements and super to these contactors. The office of fair work Australia and the ombudsman are trying to outlaw these practices and are working closely with the tax office to end this practice and have legitimate companies employ these people who will have to pay accordingly. The high minimum wage does contribute to high unemployment, as now as stated by you companies do not want to pay the correct wage and therefore implement strategies to avoid the legal right of all employees. In most cases these workers do not have recourse for illness, sickness, workers compensation or other benefits defined under obligation of employers. The truth being that theses workers are In fact being exploited, by unscrupulous employers. And the above article wrote of legal minimum hourly rates by which I quoted those in Oz for a particular service group not Sub Contractors who work illegally for an illegal employer, The unemployment rate in Australia at the moment is 879000 people on new start and 824000 on disability pensions, these are the registered unemployed it does not take into consideration those unregistered ,on youth allowance the single mothers pensions or those who looking for work but do not qualify due to the assets test, so the figure of 5.5% is a furphy and don't believe for a moment it is going to get better any time soon.

[BKKdreaming]

The unemployment rate in Australia at the moment is 879000 people on new start and 824000 on disability pensions, these are the registered unemployed it does not take into consideration those unregistered ,on youth allowance the single mothers pensions or those who looking for work but do not qualify due to the assets test, so the figure of 5.5% is a furphy and don't believe for a moment it is going to get better any time soon.

in the USA the BS unemployment rate does not include those who are not looking for work that week ,

so if you gave up looking you are not in the official stats , still do not have a job but are not "unemployed"

and then there is the under employed working at fast food jobs with 20 to 30 years at a "real" job before being let go.....

[Credo]

Snipped out

in the USA the BS unemployment rate does not include those who are not looking for work that week ,

so if you gave up looking you are not in the official stats , still do not have a job but are not "unemployed"

and then there is the under employed working at fast food jobs with 20 to 30 years at a "real" job before being let go.....

And your point is what? What does this have to do with Switzerland's minimum wage?

[Eloelo]

The unemployment rate in Australia at the moment is 879000 people on new start and 824000 on disability pensions, these are the registered unemployed it does not take into consideration those unregistered ,on youth allowance the single mothers pensions or those who looking for work but do not qualify due to the assets test, so the figure of 5.5% is a furphy and don't believe for a moment it is going to get better any time soon.

in the USA the BS unemployment rate does not include those who are not looking for work that week ,

so if you gave up looking you are not in the official stats , still do not have a job but are not "unemployed"

and then there is the under employed working at fast food jobs with 20 to 30 years at a "real" job before being let go.....

yep know that feeling

[simple1]

Does not seem particularly high as a minimum wage. and yet it was still rejected.In Oz for example a cleaner who is on a basic hourly wage of 17.95$ for working Monday -Friday 9-5 provided they do 38 hours a week, if less than 38 hours a week they get a 15% increase.if they work after 6.00pm and before 6.00am they get 15% on top. if they work on Saturday it is 1.5 times the hourly rate and on sunday it is 2x times the hourly rate, plus shift allowances if they clean bathrooms and waste removal. on top they are also paid superannuation which is 9.25% of there hourly rate are entitled to 8 sick days a year paid. 4 weeks annual leave a year paid. plus 9 public holidays a year paid. and if they work on a publick holiday it is 2.5 times there hourly rate. and if it is Christmas or good Friday it is 3 times there hourly rate.so I guess in comparison Australia would clearly be a leader in the minimum hourly rate being the highest in the world.!.which probably explains the high unemployment.....

My wife has over the years worked as a room attendant in Australia. Many of the hotel chains have implemented their own contracts (to circumvent union influence) and the T&C's nowhere near match the conditions you quote. e.g. for weekend work they use casual partime staff to avoid the weekend or public holiday rates or the contract states a flat hourly rate no matter the days worked. Often the cleaners are required to clean 20+ rooms a day, under tremendous pressure from hotel management. It is very physical work & given the number of rooms that must be cleaned per day to retain employment means that they can only afford a 30 minute rest/meal break, or less, in 8 hours of continual work. The chemicals used lead to medical conditions on a regular basis.

The trend is now to employ cleaners on a ABN contract basis at A$21 per hour (supplying their own chemicals etc), thereby a further mechanism to expunge the terms you refer to above. Also many service companies pay way below the minimum wage as they know many of the low skilled are desperate for employment in an endeavour to escape Centrelink Newstart payments that are significantly below the official poverty line.

The proposition that 'high minimum wages’ leads to high unemployment is a furphy promulgated by employer groups. Right now unemployment in Oz is running at around 5.5%, forecast to temporarily increase to approx 6.3% over the next few years

The rates quoted above are the legal minimum award rates to be paid to cleaners who are employed by an official employer under state and federal agreements. The ABN sub contractor worker is not an employee. The tax office has deemed that ABN Contractors are working illegally and that the employers who employ these subcontractors are paying illegally and avoiding entitlements and super to these contactors. The office of fair work Australia and the ombudsman are trying to outlaw these practices and are working closely with the tax office to end this practice and have legitimate companies employ these people who will have to pay accordingly. The high minimum wage does contribute to high unemployment, as now as stated by you companies do not want to pay the correct wage and therefore implement strategies to avoid the legal right of all employees. In most cases these workers do not have recourse for illness, sickness, workers compensation or other benefits defined under obligation of employers. The truth being that theses workers are In fact being exploited, by unscrupulous employers. And the above article wrote of legal minimum hourly rates by which I quoted those in Oz for a particular service group not Sub Contractors who work illegally for an illegal employer, The unemployment rate in Australia at the moment is 879000 people on new start and 824000 on disability pensions, these are the registered unemployed it does not take into consideration those unregistered ,on youth allowance the single mothers pensions or those who looking for work but do not qualify due to the assets test, so the figure of 5.5% is a furphy and don't believe for a moment it is going to get better any time soon.

As I said many employers have direct contracts of employment that at the day to day operational level circumvent State & Federal agreements. ATO have tried to put a stop to employment of sub contractors, but as far as I am aware have had at best very minimal success. Where we currently live in Noosa nearly every day are job adds requesting ABN sub contractors only, some adds clearly offer rates of pay that are below minimum wage. I mentioned this to Centrelink and they made it very clear they do not give a damn so long as you are employed in one form or another. Sure government funded organisations offer fair conditions, but they are very much in the minority.

I quoted Fed Govt unemployment stats, other stuff is subjective. As you know you can receive pro rata Newstart and DSP payments if in part time employment, the figures you quote, I believe, do not talk to full time unemployed; could be wrong

[Swiss1960]

I agree that 4'000 CHF is not too much for living in Switzerland and you have to be careful what and where you spend (specially around big cities like Zurich or Bern or Basel), however it is clearly manageable, as I have seen with my two sons at the beginning of their working life. What most news articles never mentioned is that 91% of all Swiss workers already have the 4'000 min salary, mostly through contracts between labour unions and employers in various sectors of our industry. However, three basic points did lead to the massive "no" vote:

a ) certain industries - specially agriculture - would not have been able to afford the min salary, i.e. for farm workers - and the cost for food would have gone up massively or the farmers would have had to shut down their production, making us even more dependent from foreign imports. Unemployment (which for years is only 3% in Switzerland) would have gone up dramatically (dramatically for Switzerland).

b ) Their was a massive fear that young Swiss would ask themselves why they should go to college / university for years (earning nothing) or doing an apprenticeship (learning a job with a apprenticeship salary of CHF 1'000 to 2'000 for 3-4 years to come), if they could just drop into McD and ask for 4'000 Swiss franc basic salary... Education and know-how and highly skilled labour is key to Switzerlands ongoing success and that might have got endangered.

c ) finally, nobody in Switzerland does starve to death if they don't have that basic salary. People with lower salaries can (almost automatically) ask for reduction or waiver of their health insurance premiums, they can ask for help from the social departments of the cities they live in, if they are really in need and can't support their lifes anymore.

These points were paramount to the majority of the Swiss voting population to say "no" to the initiative.

[tomloughney]

Profits don't trickle down as hoped but costs (wages) will trickle up to the consumer. Also missing is that the minimum wage is increased by some %, then the next tier goes up that same % etc. So all wages rise, therefore costs rise and soon those living on minimum wage can't survive on that either. The misconscption exists that starting wages, or minimum wages are long term employment options rather than entry level jobs leading to better jobs. Minimum wages/responsibility was never a career goal. If it is your goal you are going to be in trouble. Minimum wage for me was $1.25/hour, then I got a Route Job Selling and made about $6/hour during college, good money back then. Upon graduating I took a good job as a Chemical Engineer for $5/hour and moved up from there. I was required to relocate a number of times with the family, take jobs I did not "like" and work overtime without extra pay to achieve my goals. I am retired now and have good memories of all the stuff, but never was on welfare or public assistance. The family did not support that, the advice was given "Get off your ass and get a job" which we did.

[Chicog]

how disappointing, $25 dollars an hour, every economic migrant in Europe would have been heading for the Alps.

Songatte would be a ghost town.

Nonsense, you don't actually have to do any work for it in the UK.

[attento]

how disappointing, $25 dollars an hour, every economic migrant in Europe would have been heading for the Alps.

Songatte would be a ghost town.

my Swiss friends assure me, so many economic migrants already are heading in that direction. They dont need the $25 encouragement.

[steve down under]

I passed through Switzerland a few yrs ago on a coach trip to Lake Como in Italy and along the way the coach stopped of so we could all grab something to eat at a motorway services ,Well I was completely gobsmacked at the prices being charged thinking I could do a weeks shopping for what the bloke in front of me paid for a small piece of Fish with some french fies a small salad and a coffee it was somewhere around the equivelant of 50 quid at the time and he didnt bat an eyelid at paying that amount !