Thai Chinese Vs Chinese in other SEA countries

[BlackArtemis]

Dated a "Chinese" girl in Bangkok for a year. Both sets of grandparents moved here, their kids married and thus she is 100% Chinese. She however hates that at first meetings everyone thinks she is Chinese and not Thai. She introduces herself as Thai and prefers to be identified as Thai. She does not like the mainland tourists visiting as she has noticed negative attitudes towards herself increase in the last 2 years.

Daddy was not happy that I was a "c-c-c-c-c-combo breaker" and would mean no 100% Chinese babies. But yet he didn't give a damn enough to teach his daughter Cantonese... She is only interested in western men anyways after a BA in English and Italian and a MFA from Sweden in Fashion design.

/Yes she was a pale skinned girl from Bangkok

//No, not Hi-so, just happy middle class

///and daddy wasn't a high ranking govt official

////That daddy belonged to my 1/4 Chinese Pale GF hahaha

/////SLASHIES!

[Thai at Heart]

My MIL parents came from China, she is one of 5 children- 4 girls , 1 boy, only the brother married another Chinese person all sisters married Thai men. They will marry the best man they can whether Thai or Chinese. It just so happens many Thai Chinese men often put work and education before drinking and womanising and have more western values than many Thai men. Same as you won't see Thai-Chinese girls with farangs that come here for the drinking, partying and women, but with decent guys their own age.

The answer to the OP is that the Chinese immigrants built the country while the Thais stayed playing the landlord on their farms so most Thais don't have a choice now if they want a job as the Thai Chinese own most the businesses.

Speak to an Esarn bar girl about Thai-Chinese and you will see intergration isn't there through their choice and hatred for them is still there as they seem to think money grew on trees for them. Ok it did for many of their spoilt kids.

So the Chinese brought money with them to build Thailand or ...... are these the KMT troops that came to the North of Thailand at the end of WWII?

Some.

At a point they ran north Burma. The expelled kmt are part and parcel of a lot of dodgy business in the golden triangle.

[Minnehaha]

Thai and the various Chinese dialects are part of the same language family so it makes it easier for them to understand each other and Buddhism is more prevalent in China. The real friction with Chinese in SEA is in Muslim countries (Indonesia and Malaysia) and to a lesser extent the Catholic Philippines. The animosity in Vietnam is very deep rooted and historical although in many ways they are culturally more similar than anywhere else. Generally the Thai Chinese I meet will always identify their nationality with being Thai first and ethnic Chinese second, also maybe Chinese appreciate “Thainess” and find life more enjoyable being integrated into this way of life.

<deleted>?

thaicheo have nothing to do with the Thai peoples who originally settled the land. And the language reflects this. Duh

[Thai at Heart]

My MIL parents came from China, she is one of 5 children- 4 girls , 1 boy, only the brother married another Chinese person all sisters married Thai men. They will marry the best man they can whether Thai or Chinese. It just so happens many Thai Chinese men often put work and education before drinking and womanising and have more western values than many Thai men. Same as you won't see Thai-Chinese girls with farangs that come here for the drinking, partying and women, but with decent guys their own age.

The answer to the OP is that the Chinese immigrants built the country while the Thais stayed playing the landlord on their farms so most Thais don't have a choice now if they want a job as the Thai Chinese own most the businesses.

Speak to an Esarn bar girl about Thai-Chinese and you will see intergration isn't there through their choice and hatred for them is still there as they seem to think money grew on trees for them. Ok it did for many of their spoilt kids.

So the Chinese brought money with them to build Thailand or ...... are these the KMT troops that came to the North of Thailand at the end of WWII?

No idea about the troops , but some came with money , some, probably most didn't.

If you are referring to the MIL parents, I believe they came not long before she was born and she is 79 I think.

You wrote, "The answer to the OP is that the Chinese immigrants built the country while the Thais stayed playing the landlord on their farms so most Thais don't have a choice now if they want a job as the Thai Chinese own most the businesses." Do you have any links to back up that claim? As far as I know the Chinese were traders and millers and owners of sawmills in Bangkok and poor opium trading poor soldiers that got left by the National Chinese at the end of WWII.

The description is too simple. The thai Chinese own massive wedges of land now too. They dominate every aspect of politics and business.

But that's OK, because the Thais have smartly kept farang out, because that might mean they would lose their country and independence.

And ain't that a giggle.

[behonset]

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In Thailand, one Thai/Chinese to another Thai/Chinese will refer to themselves as Chinese.

With a Thai, they will refer to themselves as Thai/Chinese.

To a foreigner as Thai.

If they are so integrated, why do they generally marry other Chinese?

When I first arrived in Thailand, I could not distinguish between the Thai & Chinese. It took me many years to realize because as you say the Chinese will always say they are Thai. Now I know that the Chinese own and rule the country. All big businesses and most shops are owned by Chinese. It is almost impossible to find a gold shop owned by Thai 100%. From my experience the Chinese dislike the Thai and in the current political climate I would not be wrong if I said they hate the Thai. They look down on the Thai and consider the dark skin Thai's as their inferior. I remember my first girlfriend was from Isan. Her sister was tanned. She was 12 years old. She used to go to a tak wan do class and one night by accident she touched a Chinese girl. The Chinese girl shouted at her 'do not touch me you miss black' (translated from Thai). The girls were just 12 years old.

One thing that I noticed is that my light skin Chinese employees will gladly walk into 5 star hotels and restaurants unhindered. My tanned skinned Thai staff will refuse to go inside and feel uncomfortable even when I accompany them, something like a hidden apartheid. They kinda know they must not go into upmarket places because they are generally stopped by staff and told to leave indirectly. Thais are very shy so they want to avoid such situations.

The Chinese in Thailand have been very clever. They now own and control Thailand. To hell with democracy. We will see the Chinese front coming out strongly in the very near future. I feel sorry for the Thais, they have lost their country and are now treated as second class citizens

[ultimate weapon]

I see some similarities of the Thai Chinese with the Filipino Chinese.

In the PI the rest of the people more or less despise them but are envious of them, as the Filipino Chinese own pretty much everything.

Having said that, they don't speak Chinese (any dialect) and they don't necessarily identify with being Chinese.

You made a good contrast with the Chinese in Malaysia. They are actually more or less segregated (by choice now),

they speak fluent Chinese (Hokkien, Hakka, Cantonese, and the young kids speak Mandarin as well), they marry Chinese, they identify with being Chinese.

In certain areas of KL and Selangor it's not uncommon to see residential complexes where only Chinese and a few whites (are allowed to) live.

Speaking of filippino chinese. The current president Benigno "Noynoy" Aquino III has chinese in his blood. He has hokkien blood so his ancestors came from fujian aka fukkien province of china southern fukkien cos the northern fukkinese speak foo chow. I heard he visited his ancestral village in china and they held some type of feast celebration for him. This is similar to what thaksin did. I think thaksin's hometown is in guangzhou province but he's hakka not cantonese. Some very prominent leaders of SEA visited their ancestral homes in china. Goh chok tong the ex prime minister of singapore also did it.

[Fullstop]

Thai and the various Chinese dialects are part of the same language family so it makes it easier for them to understand each other

Rubbish. English and German belong to the same "family" too(Germanic branch of the Indo-European language family.)... but I can't understand German.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Fullstop

[RichBKK]

You do see a difference in terms of attitude etc. particularly with kids, my wife's cousins for example, well in to their 20s now and their dad still keeps them at home, rules with an iron fist, no boyfriends allowed etc. One of them has been going out with the same bloke for about 6 years now, her dad still doesn't know he exists. But there again he is also ethnic Chinese so he's probably fine with it. Thai families are generally quite a bit more laid back about these sorts of things. Or somewhere in between when there is a mix

More diluted with us but reckon it's probably harder to find a family in Bangkok which doesn't have any Chinese branches than one that does. How much that influence remains is open to variations

Mostly festivals, dressing up the baby in traditional costume come new year time and eating certain types of food is quite common. Extended family do a sort of takeaway haianese chicken and rice/pork and sweet sauce service from home and basically we live on that. Luckily I never tire of it but other than that would say it's quite well assimilated, though there is a bit of a suspicion of marrying foreigners and pure Thais. Mind you am not sure a 100% pure thai exists these days around Bangkok anyway outside of the émigrés from the north

Edited May 19, 2014 by RichBKK

[wvavin]

Please don't guess around. Thailand is the only country in the world with its near perfect assimilation process to date. If everyone is that curious, there are a lot of information on this the 1920s. Read up and you will be enlightened!

[The byaMemo]

honestly, who in their right mind would voluntarily want to be identified as malaysian

Edited May 19, 2014 by The byaMemo

[thailiketoo]

The Chinese in Thailand changed their names and citizenship years ago when it was legal. They kept the family ties which enable them to borrow money outside of a bank at low interest rates or no interest rates. Who cares; they are Thai and pay Thai taxes and live in Thailand and spend the profits in Thailand. I know the Thai Chinese lovers like to think they are a cut above everyone but why go there ............ The Chinese are coming from within and without. This can't be news to anyone...

[wileycoyote]

Better integrated as have not felt under attack !

[thailiketoo]

honestly, who in their right mind would voluntarily want to be identified as malaysian

Just guessing; probably a person from Malaysia.

Edited May 20, 2014 by thailiketoo

[behonset]

honestly, who in their right mind would voluntarily want to be identified as malaysian

are you american?

[Thai at Heart]

Please don't guess around. Thailand is the only country in the world with its near perfect assimilation process to date. If everyone is that curious, there are a lot of information on this the 1920s. Read up and you will be enlightened!

Hahahaha.

Yes. The much vaunted assimilation. So perfect that every town has a Chinese business association , the businesses have Chinese characters, there are.Chinese temples, and they all celebrate Chinese new year.

Just completely assimilated.

[ultimate weapon]

I've noticed in Thailand that the Thai-Chinese are the elite, because of the way they look and because they are more often than not from well-to-do established families, even on a small scale (like a resto or a gold shop). They seem respected by the pure Thais and revered. Thais will tell you (like they've told me) that the Chinese (thai Chinese) have a better work ethic and business sense (passed through the generations) compared to the pure Thais, which is why they have most of the money.

My experience in Indonesia is yes the indo-Chinese also make up a large part of the elite (for the same reasons.. Chinese hard working, Indonesians lazy), but they are hated by the pure Indonesians, from all backgrounds. Pure Chinese are hated the most. I think it's a combination of jealousy as they have all the wealth, and also not sharing the same religion as the majority.

It's sickening that this open racism is tolerated in indon. Absolutely gross.

[ultimate weapon]

The description is too simple. The thai Chinese own massive wedges of land now too. They dominate every aspect of politics and business.

But that's OK, because the Thais have smartly kept farang out, because that might mean they would lose their country and independence.

And ain't that a giggle.

The farang would never assimilate. Would you love to take up a thai name, practice thai culture, only learn thai? The chinese thais do that. Besides didn't they try to colonize the countries in these regions once? Wow talk about high handedness.

[Thai at Heart]

The description is too simple. The thai Chinese own massive wedges of land now too. They dominate every aspect of politics and business.

But that's OK, because the Thais have smartly kept farang out, because that might mean they would lose their country and independence.

And ain't that a giggle.

The farang would never assimilate. Would you love to take up a thai name, practice thai culture, only learn thai? The chinese thais do that. Besides didn't they try to colonize the countries in these regions once? Wow talk about high handedness.

As long as everyone is absolutely sure that every decision that is taken is in complete interest of the Thai people.

I mean, wouldn't want things like liberalising the food business being decided by a relative of CP in govt would we. Or banking families having their relatives in govt would we, or hotels or just about every other major business.

If you cannot see that the protectionism in the country is now hurting it. Why are the rice prices so low? Surely not a cartel. Why are the banks so poor? Surely not a cartrel.

The Thai Chinese run the country and devote most of their energy to keeping others out at the expense of the Thai people.

Land reform anyone? Change my name? Its hardly difficult to work it out.

Wongsawat

Smithsawat. Who couldn't live with it.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[HeavyDrinker]

Read Letters from Thailand (Jotmai jaak Muang Thai) by Botan (in the original Thai if you can and avoid Susan Fulop Kepner's shoddy translation)

It portrays the life of a young Chinese immigrant from arriving in post-war Bangkok and highlights the difference in many cultural aspects of how the Thais viewed the Chinese and the Chinese view of the Thais. It was for many years compulsory reading in schools before they just seemed to give up on trying to get the kids reading anything more than cartoons.

It makes for a nice little 'time capsule' of Post-war Thailand. Particularly interesting are the protagonist's often scathing reaction to seeing his daughters adopting Thai cultural habits.

[ultimate weapon]

The description is too simple. The thai Chinese own massive wedges of land now too. They dominate every aspect of politics and business.

But that's OK, because the Thais have smartly kept farang out, because that might mean they would lose their country and independence.

And ain't that a giggle.

The farang would never assimilate. Would you love to take up a thai name, practice thai culture, only learn thai? The chinese thais do that. Besides didn't they try to colonize the countries in these regions once? Wow talk about high handedness.

As long as everyone is absolutely sure that every decision that is taken is in complete interest of the Thai people.

I mean, wouldn't want things like liberalising the food business being decided by a relative of CP in govt would we. Or banking families having their relatives in govt would we, or hotels or just about every other major business.

If you cannot see that the protectionism in the country is now hurting it. Why are the rice prices so low? Surely not a cartel. Why are the banks so poor? Surely not a cartrel.

The Thai Chinese run the country and devote most of their energy to keeping others out at the expense of the Thai people.

Land reform anyone? Change my name? Its hardly difficult to work it out.

Wongsawat

Smithsawat. Who couldn't live with it.

These so called cartels exist everywhere on every planet on earth. Thais have no one to blame if another ethnic which are actually now thai took it up. Is this just like the jewish problem farangs have? How they always moan and whine day in and out about jews that look like farangs but aren't considered farang and control everything cos i suppose the farang were too dumb to prevent that from happening.

Anyway on the issue of thai chinese anyone in their position would do that. I find it a joke you would try to differentiate them from real thais. What about the mon/khmer that were there before the thais? They should be the ones controlling the economy in thailand because they were there before the thais. In case you care to notice the original thai people since they come from china look pretty chinese in that they have a more east asian look.

Let's go back to you singling out a group of thai people all because they are a different ethnic group. Suppose farang actually became thai like the thai chinese. You would be singled out even more just based on physical appearance. Then we'll read another thread maybe even you lamenting oh why are we being singled out we have thai names, speak thai etc etc and you should know why.