US denounces Thai coup, warns on relations

[impulse]

General Prayuth has listed his priorities. Let's see how he gets on. I believe there will be free and fair elections once the General's fully inclusive civilian led reforms have been put in place. I pray sooner rather than later, but only once the corruption from the electoral process has been removed.

Frankly, I agree with you on this one. I don't look at it as taking down a legal democracy. I see it (so far) as removing from office a bunch of people who have broken the law of the land. Repeatedly, admittedly and in the wide open- with impunity.

If I'm a fugitive, and I call my brother from Mexico asking him to check to see if I left the stove on, he could be charged with aiding and abetting (by helping me stay on the lam) if he were to actually check my stove.

If I were to Skype him and ask him to move some funds around, and have a talk with some errant members of the family, and....see a picture here?

So far, I haven't seen the General doing anything other than enforce a decision of the Thai court- which was being stymied by the illegal acts of members of the other branches of government. That's in direct opposition to a true democracy which requires checks and balances.

I'm envisioning some time in (very comfortable) custody, during which time their homes will be searched for mattresses full of loot, their computer hard drives will be scoured for secret bank accounts, and during which time they won't be able to spirit zillion of dollars out of the country in private jets that don't stop at border crossings. (Try aiding and abetting a fugitive in any of our home countries and see if your detention is as comfortable as these guys probably have it.)

Now, it may go real bad real quick. But, like you- I think it's way too early to call.

Are there any ThaiVisa settings where I can get an alert if they start pulling out fingernails, firing up the cattle prod, or lining detainees up against a wall? Because all this rhetoric about trampling rights, and Hitler, and Ukraine are really getting tiresome. So far, all I'm seeing is enforcement of a perfectly legal court decision. I'd love to spend my time on other web surfing- until something changes.

Edited May 25, 2014 by impulse

[impulse]

Thailand now has a fascist military dictator accountable to no one. Yes this is fascism.

I know of no instance in history where that as worked out well, and a number of them which have been quintessential disasters.

Other than Japan, every successful Asian economy has been put on that successful footing by a dictator who had enough power to maintain order at the feeding trough so there was something left over for the masses, and to grow the country.

It's never been quick, and it's often been ugly, because there's thousands of years of inertia here in Asia going the other way. And the dictators got filthy rich, for generations to come. But they also kept their compadres in check and made sure there was enough left over to invest in their nations' futures.

This is Asia The culture here is very different than it is in the west. By necessity, the road to democracy will have to look different. It will probably start here with a single strong man, just like Singapore, Korea, Malaysia and Taiwan.

I'm not saying the General is the guy. I can't look into his heart like some men can (yeah- right).

Edited May 25, 2014 by impulse

[dhrobertson]

Although I am optimistic about the coup, Neversure makes a very good point.

Facism it may be but even the defintion of facism is unclear.......

But, maybe out of niavety, I hope this is a short cut to democracy with good governance.

Maybe it would have been better to let people leran from their mistakes....

As I said before, it's complex. And we can do without facile commentary from the BBC's people who should know better by now.

Anyone seen The Economist's take on this?

[impulse]

Although I am optimistic about the coup, Neversure makes a very good point.

Facism it may be but even the defintion of facism is unclear.......

That's because there is no definition of Fascism. It was derived from Fascist, simply the name of a political party in Italy. Once Mussolini bought the farm, "Fascism" became a catch all pejorative for a government or political figure we don't like.

What's especially irritating about seeing that word and "Nazi" tossed around here, is that the beliefs and histories of those parties are totally foreign to the Asian culture.

Edited May 25, 2014 by impulse

[thailiketoo]

General Prayuth has listed his priorities. Let's see how he gets on. I believe there will be free and fair elections once the General's fully inclusive civilian led reforms have been put in place. I pray sooner rather than later, but only once the corruption from the electoral process has been removed.

Frankly, I agree with you on this one. I don't look at it as taking down a legal democracy. I see it (so far) as removing from office a bunch of people who have broken the law of the land. Repeatedly, admittedly and in the wide open- with impunity.

If I'm a fugitive, and I call my brother from Mexico asking him to check to see if I left the stove on, he could be charged with aiding and abetting (by helping me stay on the lam) if he were to actually check my stove.

If I were to Skype him and ask him to move some funds around, and have a talk with some errant members of the family, and....see a picture here?

So far, I haven't seen the General doing anything other than enforce a decision of the Thai court- which was being stymied by the illegal acts of members of the other branches of government. That's in direct opposition to a true democracy which requires checks and balances.

I'm envisioning some time in (very comfortable) custody, during which time their homes will be searched for mattresses full of loot, their computer hard drives will be scoured for secret bank accounts, and during which time they won't be able to spirit zillion of dollars out of the country in private jets that don't stop at border crossings. (Try aiding and abetting a fugitive in any of our home countries and see if your detention is as comfortable as these guys probably have it.)

Now, it may go real bad real quick. But, like you- I think it's way too early to call.

Are there any ThaiVisa settings where I can get an alert if they start pulling out fingernails, firing up the cattle prod, or lining detainees up against a wall? Because all this rhetoric about trampling rights, and Hitler, and Ukraine are really getting tiresome. So far, all I'm seeing is enforcement of a perfectly legal court decision. I'd love to spend my time on other web surfing- until something changes.

You wrote, "So far, all I'm seeing is enforcement of a perfectly legal court decision." Curfew. Censorship of major news sources, CNN, BBC and the rest. Detention of hundreds of people without charge. Dissolution of the Senate. Causing businesses to lose millions of baht by the hour. The "perfectly legal" court decision is being reported by many in the media as a judicial coup.

The court found that Yingluck's 2011 transfer of the National Security Council Chief was done with a 'hidden agenda', in violation of the constitution.

Honesty don't you see a misplaced promotion as a stretch in toppling an elected government?

I don't have a dog in this hunt but I am able to read history. I can't find an example of a military coup that turned out for the better. But maybe I'm missing something. Correct me if you know of any military coups that turned out well for the country. I do remember the French and American revolutions but I don't think this is really in the same league. Edit to read, "any military coups after 1935."

Edited May 25, 2014 by thailiketoo

[dhrobertson]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/05/military-coup-thailand

worth a read

[Tony Clifton]

Sorry , no oil here.

True, nothing but a nice backyard for military exercises, nothing else.

Plenty of room elsewhere, if they're welcome.

Bye bye.

[TomJoad]

A coup is how we got land in Panama (so we could build a canal).

Now, all of a sudden, coups are wrong? My, how times change...

And who manages that canal now? Yes- Times do change.

Jimmy Carter gave the canal back to Panama and he took a lot of heat for it by Reagan and other right-wingers like you, too.

And BTW, the country of Panama only exists today because we staged a coup to build the canal. It used to be part of Colombia, remember?

[mikemac]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/05/military-coup-thailand

worth a read

Yes worth a read, if you are into filling your head with red flavored rubbish.

At least I know now where the TV trolls are finding their drivel.

[dhrobertson]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/05/military-coup-thailand

worth a read

Yes worth a read, if you are into filling your head with red flavored rubbish.

At least I know now where the TV trolls are finding their drivel.

If you think I am a red shirt supporter you think wrong and clearly have not read my earlier posts.

The point is that just about ALL western press are misinformed and I think the journos are much to blame

Overall, the situation is complex and will require cool heads to resolve.

Flying off the handle like that doesn't help the debate. Try to stay calm and carry on!

For your info, I supported the protests and am optimistic about the coup.

I also thought Korn and Abhisit made a decent go of it.

My wife's family are subsistance farmers in the NE and are anti-Taksin.

We run an engineering consultancy in Phuket

However, my head is frequently full of a decent red......

[Amavel]

The first thing the Generals did before deciding on the coup, was to talk to the US and other foreign leaders to establish what their response on coup would be. The US response was predictable as they do not support ANY military coups. The only exceptions are where US citizens have suffered a loss of life.

The US was established by a revolutionary war that fought for the election of representative government. It is the foundation of Democracy in their eyes and anything else will not be supported.

That all aside, why is it so important what the US says and why does US response bring such anger from Thais? Did they really expect any other response?

[northernjohn]

Thailand now has a fascist military dictator accountable to no one. Yes this is fascism.

I know of no instance in history where that as worked out well, and a number of them which have been quintessential disasters.

I would rather have seen the status quo hurting the Thai people until the Thai people learned, ie the rice farmers. Also the farmers know darned well that cartels of graft sell them their seed, fertilizer and chemicals at fixed prices and then turn around and buy their farm products at fixed prices. They know.

I wanted to see them suffer from that until they learned the value of their vote. There is no other way they could learn but by the school of hard knocks and this isn't it.

I'm amazed at how so many who have benefited from First World democracies, and who know history can think that a fascist military dictator is the answer to anything.

I would not say that the current coup is the answer to any thing. But it gives the country time to see the real goings on and a non political government time to set the scene for a real democratic government of the people for the people. [That will be a shock to the people in Thailand]

You talk of learning their lesson yes they drove their tractors to Bangkok and were told to go home or else so knowing their lesson they turned around and went home and we have not heard a word about the PTP not paying up until the Army stepped in. Why the silence. Answer because they have learned that it is not a good move to buck the red shirts with out a bigger brother than the red shirts which they have now.

If you are expecting them to learn any thing else out of this you are sadly mistaken.

I personally don't give a darn if it is Democracy or Fascism or Communism if it is for the betterment of the country and doing that it is OK for me. You people who live in your head are in a dangerous area. Get out and care a little about the people in the country you have chosen to live in and you may be able to tone your democratic ideas down. Have a look at the education they have been given no where near as good as yours Still waiting to hear of a country that is a democracy.

Edit

No I do not have a time frame. It will take as long as it takes. Most of us can not do any thing except spout off to each other but I would suggest that if you have a Thai friend get them to try and see the wisdom in working with the new government so they can fold up their tents and go back to the Army basis. The more people fight them the longer they will be here.

You want a time frame ask the greedy pigs that are no longer calling the shots.

Edited May 29, 2014 by northernjohn

[sumtingwong]

I guess the USA forgot that they became an independent country thanks to a coup and the General of that coup became president.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Funny I dont remember so many people bitching about the billions of dollars in aid after the tsunami or floods in 2011. Who was the first foreign country on the scene again in those disasters?

I cant wait to hear the backlash when Thailand is downgraded to tier 3 on the trafficking in people report next month. That will be more free millions of $in aid that Thailand does not really want. I am sure the export companies will be overjoyed as well, with the billions lost in revenues.

Lets all not forget, as bad as you hate it. The US is and remains to be the biggest most wealthy economy on the planet, that does carry a lot of weight, especially for a tiny little Asian country dependent on exports.

Is that the same America that is bankrupt and the most indebted planet on the earth that likes to print money as a hobby??

If you took America to you're bank manager he would close it down and call in the liquidators!!

[watcharacters]

US is a busted flush.

How dare they moralise

With their lousy schools, obscene inequality, racism and cultural vacuum I have no interest in their opinion on anything

Hear, hear. They spout off about providing aid to Thailand in an amount which is about equivalent to what the leading contenders in the US spend on their election campaign...!! One has to wonder how the US would have dealt with a similar situation on its own soil. I dread to think of the death toll...!!

.

"They spout off about providing aid to Thailand in an amount which is about equivalent to what the leading contenders in the US spend on their election campaign."

Gosh, I hope the US doesn't spend that much.

[thailiketoo]

I guess the USA forgot that they became an independent country thanks to a coup and the General of that coup became president.

Do you really think that the overthrow of a foreign government colonizing a country is the same as the overthrow of a domestically elected government?

[hawker9000]

I guess the USA forgot that they became an independent country thanks to a coup and the General of that coup became president.

You're not serious. You just can't be. Washington was C-in-C of the Continental Army, but very much had to answer to the Continental Congress (and was very nearly relieved by it prior to his success at Trenton). He had to constantly beg them for resources. He was not even a signer of the Declaration of Independence! As for the war, It was a war of secession or independence, not an attempt to overthrow George III or the British government. A coup? What a laughable attempt to distort history. He became president not because he installed himself during the war or through exercise of military power. After the peace, he resigned his commission, famously bid his troops farewell, and went home to Virginia and resumed his life as a planter. Meanwhile, a Constitution was drafted and ratified by each and every state (I don't believe Washington was even a delegate from his state). A popular election was held pursuant to that Constitution. And he was elected to office. Twice. A coup? ....not even close; not even sort of. At the end of his second term, he was strongly encouraged - some say begged - to run for a third term. He refused. That precedent was followed by every president until FDR. (And after that, a constitutional amendment was ratified limiting presidents to two terms...)

George III once asked Benjamin West (the painter) what Washington would do if he won the war. West replied that everybody said Washington would go home to his farm. George III replied, "if he does that, he will be the greatest man in the world".

I'm actually supportive of Gen. Prayuth's military takeover and believe he continues to be effective and very much acting in his country's best interests (rather than his own), but it in NO WAY compares to Washington's role in the American War of Independence or as president.

[umbanda]

Good news!!!! and relief....I tought the US Government was behind the coup!

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I guess the USA forgot that they became an independent country thanks to a coup and the General of that coup became president.

Do you really think that the overthrow of a foreign government colonizing a country is the same as the overthrow of a domestically elected government?

You will have to excuse sumting, he rarely thinks things through before he posts, sometimes he doesn't even bother to set the glass of beer down while posting his drivel

[hawker9000]

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Edited June 24, 2014 by hawker9000