Rice scheme probe now more important than ever: Thai opinion

[bigbamboo]

I bet people at SC Asset can't wait to see the Chairperson of the Rice committee return to her previous post.

I wonder if they've even blown the cobwebs off her office yet?

Edited June 2, 2014 by bigbamboo

[Chris Lawrence]

I wasn't aware of this but Abhisit participated in a rice pledging scheme.

ON TUESDAY LAST, many newspapers made a splash that rice exports from Thailand this year had reduced markedly and, under current policy, we may finally lose our position as the biggest rice exporter. In the years 2007 and 2008, we exported 9.56 million tonnes and 10.01 million tonnes respectively. However, for this year up to July 15, a period of six months, normally an export season, we were able to export only 4.72 million tonnes. The Nation 20.06.2009.

It sounds as a rice scheme ( What is the real name of the scheme-pledging-subsidy?) has been around for quite a while?

Abhisit tried to contol the flow of rice which also caused a problem in 2009.

Do you think they will look at the history of such scheme's? or just go after a scalp?

The Democrat scheme was nothing like the PTP one in that never had any intention to corner the world market by stockpiling. In fact there were reports of many farmers actually stating the scheme was better than PTP's.

Val, what is the offical name of the 2011 rice pledge?

I agree, but both had problems.

These pledges/schemes/subsidy are all controlled by external forces. In 2009 I understand India started to sell on the international market. Prior to this it was in-house.

Abhisit had over 20 million tonnes, with 10-11 million needed for the domestic market. His Government wasn't letting enough leave the country. By doing this it sounded like stockpiling?

[gemini81]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Such lies. the democrats spotted flaws in the program's steps and its corruption, especially pertaining to the silos and movement of rice before it EVEN BEGAN. PTP is fully accountable. You know that too. Army is left to pick up the broken pieces of another family fiefdom attempt by the Shinawatras.

[Chris Lawrence]

I would like NACC to prove that the money was missing in transition or placed in the politician's account. Just because the program itself creates a loss, the information is not sufficient to accuse any politician for corruption. Get the book out and do the audit trail. There should be GL to trace where the money is going. The book should tie out to zero of all transactions.

Corruption isn't always about money changing hands. It's also deals like Thaksin's ex-wife got in that land deal. Or influential people being told of big projects before public announcement so they can buy up land nearby (i.e. rail lines). Jobs being given for political considerations (chief of police). Etc.

You mean the deal where Thaksins ex wife bid the highest in a sealed bid auction with a bid of 772 Million baht. (18th December 2003)

Where the Civil Court ruled that the sale be invalidated (24th September 2010) and resulted in Pojaman being told to hand the deeds of the land back and was compensated with the full purchase price plus interest which added up to 823 million baht.

Where the FIDF subsequently auctioned that land "again" on the 17th August 2011 for 1,815 million baht, a "profit" of 992 million baht.

You mean that kind of corruption?

Fab, have you got the refrence for this?

The one I was aware of was where Mrs T bought a property that had been on the market for a while; court action was taken but fell over due to out of time.

[Piichai]

I guess my sentences are too complicated for someone like you. Where did I type in my sentences that the PTP politicians are "NOT" corrupted? Before you accuse someone, you must have proofs that he/she is guilty. Look at it in a business context. Do the executives get arrested because they make wrong decision in the projects? The answer is No. If the executives embezzled the money from the business, the answer is Yes. Some government programs are designed to help certain target group. Dig deep and get the details out. Do they have vested interest in the project? Someone returns them the favors such as giving house, land, money, etc. Dont just say they are GUILTY because they were warned about the loss.

Please watch the condescending attitude; would hate to see another Red get a posting vacation.

While it's true that reasonable losses can often be tolerated, when losses get to a certain size, investigators start wondering why it wasn't stopped long ago. And losses can indeed be criminal; just ask JP Morgan.

Yingluck was warned about the rice scam repeatedly, from domestic and international entities. At the very least, a competent minister would have personally looked into things, but what did Yingluck do?

Considering the size of the rice scam loss, one should think it may indeed turn out to be criminal.

[rubl]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Waza.... it sure was and is NOT the coup government which created the debt burden...it was the "legally" elected goverment of the Shinewatras ...get your facts right..!

There is no serious debt burden. In Jan it was at 45% of GDP, down 45 billion. That's pretty low by global standards. It might be even lower now considering they haven't been able to spend any money, but with the economy affected and GDP falling, perhaps not (have to factor the 90 billion rice payments into this too, of course). Rice scheme was ridiculous and riddled with corruption, of course, partly by design, partly through mismanagement and incompetence. But let's not exaggerate the debt accrued from it...

Sure, sure, let not exaggerate. Thailand is a rich country which can easily afford to 'lose' 500 billion or maybe 700++ billion on a single scam. No problem at all. Lots of taxpayers and a 66 million large population to bear the burden.

Edited June 2, 2014 by rubl

[rubl]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Pretty sure the current money is included in the figure which is only an estimate. Pridiyathorn's estimate is 460 billion, whilst a subcommitee under the last govt estimated the losses from the first three pledging schemes at 332 billion. So if you add in the two more since then, 500 or so seems about right. However, it's possible some of that will be recouped after current stocks are sold, not sure if the estimates are taking that into account or not.

By the way the president of the PWO says that the "missing rice" isn't actually missing, it was just undocumented at the time due to it being milled. Everything should be taken with a pinch of salt now though because there are those who will want to exaggerate the scale of the losses, and there are also those with reputations to defend (presumably the latter with be transferred quite quickly though).

So, a 500 billion non-revolving funds, about 200 billion extra borrowed, needed an extra 130 billion and a bit more. Started to sell rice to be able to cover than 130 billion. Still no single A4 page with 'all' details. So let's not exaggerate, let's just assume it's only 700++ billion guaranteed by the Yingluck government and kept outside the National Budget for more 'easy' management. Unclear if the rice mountain will really be high enough to even cover the 130 billion. Not sure when last the government paid interest on growing non-revolving funds, etc., etc.

Criminal!

[Chris Lawrence]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Waza.... it sure was and is NOT the coup government which created the debt burden...it was the "legally" elected goverment of the Shinewatras ...get your facts right..!

There is no serious debt burden. In Jan it was at 45% of GDP, down 45 billion. That's pretty low by global standards. It might be even lower now considering they haven't been able to spend any money, but with the economy affected and GDP falling, perhaps not (have to factor the 90 billion rice payments into this too, of course). Rice scheme was ridiculous and riddled with corruption, of course, partly by design, partly through mismanagement and incompetence. But let's not exaggerate the debt accrued from it...

Sure, sure, let not exaggerate. Thailand is a rich country which can easily afford to 'lose' 500 billion or maybe 700++ billion on a single scam. No problem at all. Lots of taxpayers and a 66 million large population to bear the burden.

Well you have to admit they are good.

Do you think all the $1500 to $5000 a month the girls get sent each month will make up for the losses in balance of trade figures? I have seen some girls with mutiple phones each one for the one honey'.

[rubl]

Waza.... it sure was and is NOT the coup government which created the debt burden...it was the "legally" elected goverment of the Shinewatras ...get your facts right..!

There is no serious debt burden. In Jan it was at 45% of GDP, down 45 billion. That's pretty low by global standards. It might be even lower now considering they haven't been able to spend any money, but with the economy affected and GDP falling, perhaps not (have to factor the 90 billion rice payments into this too, of course). Rice scheme was ridiculous and riddled with corruption, of course, partly by design, partly through mismanagement and incompetence. But let's not exaggerate the debt accrued from it...

Sure, sure, let not exaggerate. Thailand is a rich country which can easily afford to 'lose' 500 billion or maybe 700++ billion on a single scam. No problem at all. Lots of taxpayers and a 66 million large population to bear the burden.

Well you have to admit they are good.

Do you think all the $1500 to $5000 a month the girls get sent each month will make up for the losses in balance of trade figures? I have seen some girls with mutiple phones each one for the one honey'.

Sure that makes up for the losses, that is assuming those $$ are properly registered as income with tax paid on it, in Thailand that is

Edited June 2, 2014 by rubl

[Now or Never]

This is the usual rubbish from the Nation.

The NACC has an open and shut case on PTP in the Rice Pledging Scheme ... even the IMF knows this.

[fab4]

Corruption isn't always about money changing hands. It's also deals like Thaksin's ex-wife got in that land deal. Or influential people being told of big projects before public announcement so they can buy up land nearby (i.e. rail lines). Jobs being given for political considerations (chief of police). Etc.

You mean the deal where Thaksins ex wife bid the highest in a sealed bid auction with a bid of 772 Million baht. (18th December 2003)

Where the Civil Court ruled that the sale be invalidated (24th September 2010) and resulted in Pojaman being told to hand the deeds of the land back and was compensated with the full purchase price plus interest which added up to 823 million baht.

Where the FIDF subsequently auctioned that land "again" on the 17th August 2011 for 1,815 million baht, a "profit" of 992 million baht.

You mean that kind of corruption?

Not at all. The value of the land to Pojaman was way below market value. That's corruption. And the officials who allowed her to do so might not have been paid money, but perhaps got other incentives. Promotion, hiring of relative somewhere else, etc. That's corruption.

The government sold the land at a transparent auction, getting the full value that they deserved...at least I hope it was transparent!

She bid for the land in a sealed bid auction. There were two other bids which were lower than hers - how can that be corruption? How do you know the land was undervalued at a cost of 772 million baht, did someone say so on this forum? it wasn't until 8 years later that the land was sold for 1,815 million baht.

Edited June 2, 2014 by fab4

[Now or Never]

To Thai Visa

Why doesn't this Editorial show who at the Nation wrote this article ?

[jayjayjayjay]

OK, right here on this site over the past year or so, in posting newspaper articles at various points in the process, we have read:

That the "revolving fund" at tha BAAC of 500 bil. bt was used up and 200 bil more was needed.

We have been told that the additional 200 bil was added by the BAAC.

We have been told that the BAAC had 200 bil of its own capital, and that it used 150 bil to additionally fund tghe rice scheme.

Now we are at 850 bil, and that's before the latest harvest.

We have been told so may times that government sales such as to China and The Phils were happening but they never did. That is, unless someone other than the bank got paid.

We have been told that a very large amount of rice was smuggled in from Cambodia and sold as Thai rice at the pledging price.

We have been told that a large amount of rice is rotten or missing.

We have been told that the amount the government, using loans from the BAAC paid was about 3x today's market price for good fresh rice.

Now the new government is somehow raising billions more to actually pay the farmers, or so it appears. But this isn't money from the sale of rice.

Rice isn't being sold.

Is it 1+ trillion baht plus what is being paid out now, less the actual value of whatever could be sold? We have been told that if they release the rice stockpiles onto the world market the price of rice will really crash.

Someone has his work cut out for him in spades.

And we are told that Thaksin's visible fortune as reported by Forbes increased a whopping $1.1 billion dollars just last year almost tripling, and Forbes said that Thaksin said the government owed him the money. Why?

You guys are nuts. You really think Thaksin has taken 1.1billion baht in payments to line his pockets! Pretty easy to prove. Let's wait for the NACC to file charges. Until that time I hokd my breath and my tongue.

As for the difficulty. This is a simple two page excel file. Goven that the file would have to be about a kilometer long to record all transactions. Expenes (rice purchase), other expenses easily catagorised into about 25 groups or less. Revenue ( sales to date) and a bank reconciliation. Starting balance, In, out, ending balance! Reconciliation... Done.

[rabas]

Corruption isn't always about money changing hands. It's also deals like Thaksin's ex-wife got in that land deal. Or influential people being told of big projects before public announcement so they can buy up land nearby (i.e. rail lines). Jobs being given for political considerations (chief of police). Etc.

You mean the deal where Thaksins ex wife bid the highest in a sealed bid auction with a bid of 772 Million baht. (18th December 2003)

Where the Civil Court ruled that the sale be invalidated (24th September 2010) and resulted in Pojaman being told to hand the deeds of the land back and was compensated with the full purchase price plus interest which added up to 823 million baht.

Where the FIDF subsequently auctioned that land "again" on the 17th August 2011 for 1,815 million baht, a "profit" of 992 million baht.

You mean that kind of corruption?

Not at all. The value of the land to Pojaman was way below market value. That's corruption. And the officials who allowed her to do so might not have been paid money, but perhaps got other incentives. Promotion, hiring of relative somewhere else, etc. That's corruption.

The government sold the land at a transparent auction, getting the full value that they deserved...at least I hope it was transparent!

She bid for the land in a sealed bid auction. There were two other bids which were lower than hers - how can that be corruption? How do you know the land was undervalued at a cost of 772 million baht, did someone say so on this forum? it wasn't until 8 years later that the land was sold for 1,815 million baht.

how can that be corruption?

Fake bids are very common in Thailand. Unfortunately I have experience with this one. The corrupt deal will be set up at the corrupt price, then they will get friend bidders, sometimes an international company that does other business in Thailand to put in a token bid or two to make a legitimate auction. Of course the corrupt bid always wins. Then the friend bidders will get their special favors later, or may already "owe" the scheming people a favor.

Large government departments will even compete with each other to steal the corruption, or place other fake bids to disrupt the process and save budget for their own corrupt schemes. Different departments belong to different factions and control of the factions often goes all the way to the top. It's surprising that any real work gets done sometimes.

[citizen33]

There is a high probability that Thaksin was involved in some very dodgy dealings, but the thing that struck me after the 2006 coup was that a huge effort to prove wrongdoing drew a virtual blank. As others have said, the sealed bid land sale conviction looks weak: it is a bit like getting Al Capone for income tax evasion, but without the cut and dried evidence..

[Valentine]

I wasn't aware of this but Abhisit participated in a rice pledging scheme.

ON TUESDAY LAST, many newspapers made a splash that rice exports from Thailand this year had reduced markedly and, under current policy, we may finally lose our position as the biggest rice exporter. In the years 2007 and 2008, we exported 9.56 million tonnes and 10.01 million tonnes respectively. However, for this year up to July 15, a period of six months, normally an export season, we were able to export only 4.72 million tonnes. The Nation 20.06.2009.

It sounds as a rice scheme ( What is the real name of the scheme-pledging-subsidy?) has been around for quite a while?

Abhisit tried to contol the flow of rice which also caused a problem in 2009.

Do you think they will look at the history of such scheme's? or just go after a scalp?

The Democrat scheme was nothing like the PTP one in that never had any intention to corner the world market by stockpiling. In fact there were reports of many farmers actually stating the scheme was better than PTP's.

Val, what is the offical name of the 2011 rice pledge?

I agree, but both had problems.

These pledges/schemes/subsidy are all controlled by external forces. In 2009 I understand India started to sell on the international market. Prior to this it was in-house.

Abhisit had over 20 million tonnes, with 10-11 million needed for the domestic market. His Government wasn't letting enough leave the country. By doing this it sounded like stockpiling?

Abhisit's rice price guarantee scheme is not perfect but certainly looks much better than the current one http://www.bday.net/rice-price-guarantee-scheme/

[fab4]

I would like NACC to prove that the money was missing in transition or placed in the politician's account. Just because the program itself creates a loss, the information is not sufficient to accuse any politician for corruption. Get the book out and do the audit trail. There should be GL to trace where the money is going. The book should tie out to zero of all transactions.

Corruption isn't always about money changing hands. It's also deals like Thaksin's ex-wife got in that land deal. Or influential people being told of big projects before public announcement so they can buy up land nearby (i.e. rail lines). Jobs being given for political considerations (chief of police). Etc.

You mean the deal where Thaksins ex wife bid the highest in a sealed bid auction with a bid of 772 Million baht. (18th December 2003)

Where the Civil Court ruled that the sale be invalidated (24th September 2010) and resulted in Pojaman being told to hand the deeds of the land back and was compensated with the full purchase price plus interest which added up to 823 million baht.

Where the FIDF subsequently auctioned that land "again" on the 17th August 2011 for 1,815 million baht, a "profit" of 992 million baht.

You mean that kind of corruption?

Fab, have you got the refrence for this?

The one I was aware of was where Mrs T bought a property that had been on the market for a while; court action was taken but fell over due to out of time.

Yes, this guy has done a lot of work and pulled all the various sources together to provide as good a description of the Ratchadphisek Land "Scandal" that I have come across. Certainly light years away from the dross masquerading as "fact" posted on here by certain people

http://slimdogsworld.blogspot.com

[Thai at Heart]

Corruption isn't always about money changing hands. It's also deals like Thaksin's ex-wife got in that land deal. Or influential people being told of big projects before public announcement so they can buy up land nearby (i.e. rail lines). Jobs being given for political considerations (chief of police). Etc.

You mean the deal where Thaksins ex wife bid the highest in a sealed bid auction with a bid of 772 Million baht. (18th December 2003)

Where the Civil Court ruled that the sale be invalidated (24th September 2010) and resulted in Pojaman being told to hand the deeds of the land back and was compensated with the full purchase price plus interest which added up to 823 million baht.

Where the FIDF subsequently auctioned that land "again" on the 17th August 2011 for 1,815 million baht, a "profit" of 992 million baht.

You mean that kind of corruption?

Not at all. The value of the land to Pojaman was way below market value. That's corruption. And the officials who allowed her to do so might not have been paid money, but perhaps got other incentives. Promotion, hiring of relative somewhere else, etc. That's corruption.

The government sold the land at a transparent auction, getting the full value that they deserved...at least I hope it was transparent!

She bid for the land in a sealed bid auction. There were two other bids which were lower than hers - how can that be corruption? How do you know the land was undervalued at a cost of 772 million baht, did someone say so on this forum? it wasn't until 8 years later that the land was sold for 1,815 million baht.

how can that be corruption?

Fake bids are very common in Thailand. Unfortunately I have experience with this one. The corrupt deal will be set up at the corrupt price, then they will get friend bidders, sometimes an international company that does other business in Thailand to put in a token bid or two to make a legitimate auction. Of course the corrupt bid always wins. Then the friend bidders will get their special favors later, or may already "owe" the scheming people a favor.

Large government departments will even compete with each other to steal the corruption, or place other fake bids to disrupt the process and save budget for their own corrupt schemes. Different departments belong to different factions and control of the factions often goes all the way to the top. It's surprising that any real work gets done sometimes.

Was there a reserve? Anyway, she wasn't convicted of the low price which was judged not to be the issue. The issue was her being the wife of a govt employee.

This undervaluation was not the issue.

[selftaopath]

While Thailand's political crisis has revolved around charges of corruption, the "big fish" have rarely been caught. Charges of "insufficient proof" have often been used by one side, or the camp led by Thaksin Shinawatra to be exact.

Maybe I'm wrong but I am pretty sure Thaksin Shinawatra is one of the few "big"fish" actually convicted in a court of law, circa October 21, 2008.

Over the last 70 years, most other "big fish", of all ilks, have been allowed sneak away with their booty without facing trial, and then return after the statute of limitations has expired.

I think this "statute of limitations" is idiotic. Hope that is changed too.

[GuestHouse]

Putting aside the actual existence or otherwise of corruption in the PTP Rice Pledging Scheme, there remains the whole issue of the PTP refusing time after time to present:

• Open Accounts of the PTP Rice Pledging Scheme
• Evidence of any kind of the G2G Rice Sales that the PTP repeatedly claimed to have been agreed.

The arrogance and bare faced lies of the PTP government with respect to these issues was matched only by the passive acceptance and refusal to pursue the truth of Thailand's press and media. The Nation, no friend of the PTP, did what every other paper and news outlet in Thailand did - Repeat the PTP lies without any attempt whatsoever of holding the liars to account.

Democracy needs an active and inquisitive press with freedoms of expression enshrined in law.

The Anti Government protesters have been calling for a repeal of the Computer Crimes Act and the laws of Criminal Defamation. The Red Shirts have been calling for the repeal of the Lesee Majeste laws.

Between these two demands is the key to opening real political debate and a free press.

It is these two sets of demands from grass root supporters in both the Red/Yellow camps which will be ignored by whoever it is who eventually sets a new constitution and/or forms a new government.

It is precisely a refusal to address these two sets of demands which allows corruption and abuse of power to continue, above and beyond question or comment by individuals, the press or media.

[bigbamboo]

Just as well a law was in place to stop Mrs. T using Mr. T to illegally buy government that land otherwise when it was later sold for close to it's market price of 1.8 billion the country would have lost more than a billion baht. Mrs. T didn't really need the cash being already fabulously wealthy but think of the schools, hospitals etc that were hopefully built by Mr. T's government with the extra money raised.

[marinediscoking]

This is the best thread I have read on Thai Visa in the last year! The last 6 months has been nothing more than lynch squad to string up Yingluck with posters stating rumors as if they were facts.

Once faced with the arguments other than the same daily yellow circle jerk posters, nothing seems be proven about the rice stocks missing. Then they deflect the argument to Thaksins increase in wealth , once that is debunked they go to his ex-wife’s land deal which they were sure was stolen from the gov. because they had all facts, now that is debunked. Where will they take their reasoning now? Maybe they will accuse YL of using public funds for the purchase of burberry rain boots she wore during the floods. That must be an impeachable offense to them that should also remove the entire PTP as well.

I am all for debate, just don't let your political bias blind you.

Edited June 2, 2014 by marinediscoking

[icare999]

so Taksin and red shirt supporters here your thieving heroes will be found out for piers and thieves they are most is in Taksins bank his clan and his top red shirts etc very little to poor some to not poor farmers. But sadly a lot of IMPO totally brainwashed people will still worship him and if after all this Thailand votes for him again then poor deserve all they get. I and most wont suffer not will rich

Totally ridiculous anyone can support Taksin and anyone here who dies must be totally stupid or simply dont care about poor or mad

[allan michaud]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

It's B500billion and rising. We do not get a final loss figure until all the rice bought in the scheme is sold. With the market price of rice and Thai rice in particular, plummeting recently, this could get a whole lot worse yet.

[rubl]

This is the best thread I have read on Thai Visa in the last year! The last 6 months has been nothing more than lynch squad to string up Yingluck with posters stating rumors as if they were facts.

Once faced with the arguments other than the same daily yellow circle jerk posters, nothing seems be proven about the rice stocks missing. Then they deflect the argument to Thaksins increase in wealth , once that is debunked they go to his ex-wife’s land deal which they were sure was stolen from the gov. because they had all facts, now that is debunked. Where will they take their reasoning now? Maybe they will accuse YL of using public funds for the purchase of burberry rain boots she wore during the floods. That must be an impeachable offense to them that should also remove the entire PTP as well.

I am all for debate, just don't let your political bias blind you.

When you use terms like "yellow circle jerk posters" you might be seen by some as not really interested in unbiased discussions.

[belg]

is it a miracle, after all the lost money, people still are not sure this was a scam ????

thai economics, part of thainess

u no understaan, u no khun thai

[Crushdepth]

Thaksin's rice subsidy scheme, the scam that just keeps taking. On top of these losses are the disappearance of 3 million tons of rice and the debt the coup government is creating to pay the farmers.

Pretty sure the current money is included in the figure which is only an estimate. Pridiyathorn's estimate is 460 billion, whilst a subcommitee under the last govt estimated the losses from the first three pledging schemes at 332 billion. So if you add in the two more since then, 500 or so seems about right. However, it's possible some of that will be recouped after current stocks are sold, not sure if the estimates are taking that into account or not.

By the way the president of the PWO says that the "missing rice" isn't actually missing, it was just undocumented at the time due to it being milled. Everything should be taken with a pinch of salt now though because there are those who will want to exaggerate the scale of the losses, and there are also those with reputations to defend (presumably the latter with be transferred quite quickly though).

Even if the rice was being milled it should still have been documented. They didn't think to mention it was at the mill when investigators came asking? Seriously? I doubt that most of it is actually missing, more likely it was never delivered and the paperwork ermmm...contains errors.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Crushdepth

[Crushdepth]

This is the best thread I have read on Thai Visa in the last year! The last 6 months has been nothing more than lynch squad to string up Yingluck with posters stating rumors as if they were facts.

Once faced with the arguments other than the same daily yellow circle jerk posters, nothing seems be proven about the rice stocks missing. Then they deflect the argument to Thaksins increase in wealth , once that is debunked they go to his ex-wife’s land deal which they were sure was stolen from the gov. because they had all facts, now that is debunked. Where will they take their reasoning now? Maybe they will accuse YL of using public funds for the purchase of burberry rain boots she wore during the floods. That must be an impeachable offense to them that should also remove the entire PTP as well.

I am all for debate, just don't let your political bias blind you.

Do you seriously think its possible to run such a ridiculous scheme in Thailand without corruption? The pathetically obvious 'flaws' in the scheme - widely denounced even before it had started - are not there by mistake, they're there by design.

The real story lies in who designed this hopelessly broken system and who exploited it.

[aussiebebe]

Just a question to other forum members, - Ignoring political bias and simply looking at the facts that rice was pledged at 15,000 baht per ton and now has a market value of 5-6,000baht per ton - did anyone think things would end this badly?

I'm just wondering if even the most staunch Thai Visa cynic predicted such as monumental f***-up. I only ask because the rice prices could fall even further, yet the farmers are all demanding 10,000 baht per ton for next year's crops.

[Robby nz]

Just a question to other forum members, - Ignoring political bias and simply looking at the facts that rice was pledged at 15,000 baht per ton and now has a market value of 5-6,000baht per ton - did anyone think things would end this badly?

I'm just wondering if even the most staunch Thai Visa cynic predicted such as monumental f***-up. I only ask because the rice prices could fall even further, yet the farmers are all demanding 10,000 baht per ton for next year's crops.

The 15 k per ton is only what the farmers were supposed to be paid for their rice it does not take into account all the other charges that are needed to get to the present situation.

The total cost of the finished product ready for export were recently estimated at over 29,000 B per ton.

As an answer to your question. Yes the IMF the world bank and many others warned of just this.

It seems there is more emerging as the days go on as to just how farmers have been cheated all the way along, for instance :

Farmers want help against 'cheating' millers

The Nation

June 2, 2014 1:00 am

Some 139 farmers in Mae Lao in Chiang Rai will seek help from the National Council for Peace and Order to speed up court procedures after rice millers allegedly cheated them of Bt5 million for rice sold under the previous government's pledging scheme.

Banchong Chaisombat, kamnan of tambon Jommok Kaew, said farmers joined the scheme in 2013 with Nitipol Sahakarnkaset for Bt9 billion in total but the company failed to give them receipts despite being asked to do so many times.

Natsan Rasthanahiran and his wife Thananrat Rasthanahiran, the owners of Nitipol Sahakarnkaset, were arrested on July 18 and charged with fraud in connection with rice pledged by farmers in Tern and Khun Tan districts in Chiang Rai.

After hearing the couple had been arrested, the Mae Lao farmers, who hail from four tambons, also filed a police complaint. Ricer miller Thamolpan Kamrangsi, the owner of Rung Ruang, was also arrested in connection to the case and released on bail. Two other rice millers involved in the case paid farmers Bt4 million and still owe them Bt5 million.

The farmers unsuccessfully sought help from the Chiang Rai governor and the Department of Special Investigation. They will file a petition with the NCPO through a military agency in Chiang Rai in an effort to speed up the trial as they are struggling financially.

Sawai Chairat, a farmer leader, said problems had been compounded by the recent earthquake.

Sukham Suwan, a farmer from tambon Jom Mok Kaew, said people only wanted money owed to them and didn't want to press civil or criminal charges.

Nuan La-nga, a farmer from the same tambon, said a big burden fell on her shoulders after her husband had a stroke and became paralysed due to the stress of being cheated.

Kittisak Rattanawaraha, chairman of the Network of Farmers from 17 northern provinces, said some 300 farmers in Phichit were cheated out of Bt50 million in total under the rice-pledging scheme and courts were hearing those cases.

He expected farmers in the north would be paid for the rice they pledged this month. He had not received reports that loan sharks had intimidated farmers in the north to pay debts owed to them following the NCPO's order to swiftly pay money long owed to them.