Sympathy Or Their Own Fault?

[David48]

Most of the Thai gardeners I see on Moobaans wouldn't even get out of bed for less than 300bht a half day.

His wife is working too, destitute on 900bht a day, are you sure?

As for the Merc owner, expensive car, best to park it in your driveway.

I would prefer not to say anything about people's intelligense, but I'm fairly tempted.

Find out what the real world is all about before writing ignorant replies.

The lowest salary to give a Thai person is 300TBH per day, so 2X300 TBH is 600TBH , BUT that is only registered employment with the labor office.

There IS NO set minimum wage outside the labor system.

It could be 50 TBH per day or even less for the poorest.

Have you ever tried to hire anyone? A lot of buildings and homes sit unfinished because labor at higher than minimum is not available. I pay more than 300 for temp labor. Not complaining but no one works that I know for under 300. Where are these 50 baht an hour workers? Nakon Nowhere where there is nothing to build or make or work on?

We don't always agree, but on this point ...

[David48]

Dbl post ... sorry.

Edited June 3, 2014 by David48

[EnglishJohn]

I see many Thai people who own virtually nothing except their bit of land with their 'house' - yet most of them complain less and seem happier with their lot than many people I know in the UK.

If you can spare the cash without someone in your family having to go without then help this guy and feel like you did something good in this world - just don't make a habit of it else the real scammers will be knocking on your door. This 'let em burn' attitude is very common sentiment by people on this forum. I wonder if people come to Thailand because they are like that and fit in well here, or being in Thailand makes them like that.

Quite why a Merc owner is plotting with someone so poor over 8,000 baht I don't know. Did you ever see them together before ?.

[Strangebrew]

If your doing it from your heart cool if your doing it for attention not so cool. Or if damaged car owner is Thai go to them offer to get fixed, if you think that will make you feel better. I know what I would do. Sort of like the old thai across the street from her house burnt few years back lost everything. I went over to offer help found out that the old broad was loaded had something 70 million baht in the bank and owned 15 houses in the neighborhood also no kids or family living. But she always say hi to every day adter that offer I made.

[AshRegister]

I wouldn't give them jobs because then its a hassle and I just want it to be unspoken and no ties if I do it at all.

I can definitely see the sense in the below too which is actually what is holding me back:

"You want to pay for some stupid fool who could have killed his own baby. You talk about human kindness and compassion for a human being. Did the fool that could have killed his baby have any kindness / compassion ? Wise up. Let the fools learn the hard way"

With the addition of the stupidity of having a baby in his situation anyway.

555...You can see this is a dilema for you but honestly - just do it. Give the money - or even half. And IMO the opinion you're quoting above isn't borne of concern or caring - it's just some angry bloke glad to find something to get pissed off at. Don't listen to him.

[POSA290103]

Most likely they are both scamming you. Amazing Gullible Farangs

This is almost certainly true. The penniless gardener and the rich Benz driver got together one afternoon over a beer and thought "what is the best way to scam 8,000 baht out of that stupid farang across the road?" an they came up with this. You have to admire the Thais for their genius.

Does the word facetious apply here? I think some don't get it. Relax

[marios]

If the Benz owner pursues the matter and the case is to be taken to court then you may step in and help. I mean, if you are sure that the money have to be paid then be a good Samaritan.

[glegolo]

I think it is a completely wrong place to address this issue to a forum like this, with people mostly living their lifes in the tourist-ghettos and have small or no interests in compassion at all.

Do like we do up-country (Chaiyaphum).. If you feel like helping.....just help, go what you heart tells you...... There are so many people in Thailand that works day out and day in 12-13 hours a day for pure shit-money.. So help... If you like..

Good luck, I think you are a very nice man to even consider.......

Glegolo

[wandasloan]

I would prefer not to say anything about people's intelligense, but I'm fairly tempted.

Find out what the real world is all about before writing ignorant replies.

The lowest salary to give a Thai person is 300TBH per day, so 2X300 TBH is 600TBH , BUT that is only registered employment with the labor office.

There IS NO set minimum wage outside the labor system.

It could be 50 TBH per day or even less for the poorest.

I personally would welcome your offer to refer to talk about people's intelligence.

When I stay in Thailand, which is more time then when I live in the west, I stay at the gf's Parents Farm on the outskirts on Bangkok.

FOR A FACT ... the gf's father employs one full time farm worker to manage the fish ponds.

He works 6 days a week.

Paid Bt 6,000 a month, has had a modest place built for him to live rent free on the Farm, has his elec, rice and fish paid for. He walks out of his door and he's at work.

When the Boss hires in casual Farm workers to harvest the fish, it's Bt300 for a 1/2 day, plus drinks (Water, soy milk, milk coffee, Red Bull, bottle of Whisky) and sometimes food.

So as for ... "It could be 50 TBH per day or even less for the poorest." ... please, unless you are genuinely hiring Thai Labours, keep those sort of comments to yourself and don't show your ignorance.

Actually David, you are showing your ignorance. The Rider person has it exactly correct.

Hired labour is paid 300 baht a day by law.

But people who are NOT hired labour make what they make. By the OP's description, for example, the poor Thai man is a saleng driver, typically a rubbish collector. They make whatever he gets recycling trash, garbage and the like. Many of them make 50 baht a day, some of them day after dreary day. But whatever his job, he makes whatever he can, and the 300-baht guarantee does not apply to him because he is not employed, he is self-employed.

I would also note that your girl friend's father is a law-breaker, according to your post - by paying his employee 6,000 baht per month. The law does not allow employers to claim that items like room and board and electricity are part of the salary.

In a typical four-Sunday month, like the one just passed working six days a week, that poor exploited man worked 27 days. He should have received, at 300 baht per day, a minimum of 8,100 baht. Yet you claim he was paid a paltry and illegal 6,000 baht. If you are correct in your accusations against your girl friend's father, he short-changed... well, cheated his worker out of 2,100 baht, last month alone.

All the man has to do is drop by the local Labour Office, sign a couple of papers, and he'll be in for a bit of a windfall.

But as the Rider person pointed out to you, the old Thai man of the OP has no such legal protection, since he is self-employed.

.

[MyFriend You]

Give it to him, and let him do your garden once a month for the next 18 month, problem solved.

And tell the Benz owner it's not cool to park in front of his house on a public road - playing kids, pissing dogs, drunk gardeners, car thieves, envy neighbours, rain, sun and so on and so forth...

I agree and this is exactly what I have done in the past, have even turned out pretty good as I always get them more customers if they are any good at gardening ir clearing brush etc etc etc. Hire him, and give him an advance - gotta learn to trust people some time, and iof he absconds with the cash................so be it. You will feel better about yourself.

[Mousehound]

Give it to him, and let him do your garden once a month for the next 18 month, problem solved.

And tell the Benz owner it's not cool to park in front of his house on a public road - playing kids, pissing dogs, drunk gardeners, car thieves, envy neighbours, rain, sun and so on and so forth...

I agree and this is exactly what I have done in the past, have even turned out pretty good as I always get them more customers if they are any good at gardening ir clearing brush etc etc etc. Hire him, and give him an advance - gotta learn to trust people some time, and iof he absconds with the cash................so be it. You will feel better about yourself.

The OP knows what the answer is in his heart otherwise he would never have made the post.

Money given in exchange for his skill is a good option - so long as you don't take advantage of the situation. I would be looking at a way to help get the kids to school - it may be their only chance to get out of the poverty trap. Good deeds may not be returned by those you bestow them on, but I have had plenty of fortune in my life, at least to know that the world is a far better place because of them.

[Sealbash]

Why does everyone assume the Benz owner is rich? He could have lost everything in the stock market, had his bars closed by the curfew, and can't afford insurance, so left his car parked on the side of the road. He may owe the bank millions. So who is poorer, the guy that owes millions, or the gardener that owes nothing, except the 8000 baht? Perhaps the Benz owner needs that 8000 baht to feed his six children.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[simon43]

Buy the baby from the gardener for 8,000 baht, sell it on Ebay for 800,000 baht.

(Sorry - couldn't resist this JOKE)

[wandasloan]

Buy the baby from the gardener for 8,000 baht, sell it on Ebay for 800,000 baht.

(Sorry - couldn't resist this JOKE)

Try harder then. It is definitely not a joke. If it were, it would be even just a tiny bit funny.

.

[kurnell]

This is almost certainly true. The penniless gardener and the rich Benz driver got together one afternoon over a beer and thought "what is the best way to scam 8,000 baht out of that stupid farang across the road?" an they came up with this. You have to admire the Thais for their genius.

one has to admire a poor little man like you for coming up with crooked thoughts.

Yeah, you are going to have to run that by me again, cos I haven't a clue what you are talking about

that you don't have a clue is quite obvious

You didn't get my post at all did you? Ever had that moment when you realised you ain't as smart as you thought you were?

[GOLDBUGGY]

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As heartless as this may seem to some readers ... your best option is to do nothing.

Let the Thais sort out their problem.

The Benz owner may decide to make merit by not persueing the matter.

Why did a 63 year old have a baby?

Abortion is illegal in Thailand.

Maybe to many the question should not be "Why did a 63 Year Old Man have a Baby?". It should be "How did a 63 Year Old Man have a Baby?".

[kurnell]

Most likely they are both scamming you. Amazing Gullible Farangs

This is almost certainly true. The penniless gardener and the rich Benz driver got together one afternoon over a beer and thought "what is the best way to scam 8,000 baht out of that stupid farang across the road?" an they came up with this. You have to admire the Thais for their genius.

Do shut up! how many Thai Merc owners do you really think would stoop down to even talk to a poor gardener. Stupid comment.

Sweet baby jesus, did IQs suddenly drop 20 points overnight? My post was so ludicrously 'tongue in cheek' that I think the average 4 year old would get it. What is the IQ of a 4 year old?

[kurnell]

Most likely they are both scamming you. Amazing Gullible Farangs

This is almost certainly true. The penniless gardener and the rich Benz driver got together one afternoon over a beer and thought "what is the best way to scam 8,000 baht out of that stupid farang across the road?" an they came up with this. You have to admire the Thais for their genius.

Does the word facetious apply here? I think some don't get it. Relax

Finally!!! I was beginning to think that TV forum was full of Forrest Gump clones.

[David48]

I would prefer not to say anything about people's intelligense, but I'm fairly tempted.

Find out what the real world is all about before writing ignorant replies.

The lowest salary to give a Thai person is 300TBH per day, so 2X300 TBH is 600TBH , BUT that is only registered employment with the labor office.

There IS NO set minimum wage outside the labor system.

It could be 50 TBH per day or even less for the poorest.

I personally would welcome your offer to refer to talk about people's intelligence.

When I stay in Thailand, which is more time then when I live in the west, I stay at the gf's Parents Farm on the outskirts on Bangkok.

FOR A FACT ... the gf's father employs one full time farm worker to manage the fish ponds.

He works 6 days a week.

Paid Bt 6,000 a month, has had a modest place built for him to live rent free on the Farm, has his elec, rice and fish paid for. He walks out of his door and he's at work.

When the Boss hires in casual Farm workers to harvest the fish, it's Bt300 for a 1/2 day, plus drinks (Water, soy milk, milk coffee, Red Bull, bottle of Whisky) and sometimes food.

So as for ... "It could be 50 TBH per day or even less for the poorest." ... please, unless you are genuinely hiring Thai Labours, keep those sort of comments to yourself and don't show your ignorance.

Actually David, you are showing your ignorance. The Rider person has it exactly correct.

Hired labour is paid 300 baht a day by law.

But people who are NOT hired labour make what they make. By the OP's description, for example, the poor Thai man is a saleng driver, typically a rubbish collector. They make whatever he gets recycling trash, garbage and the like. Many of them make 50 baht a day, some of them day after dreary day. But whatever his job, he makes whatever he can, and the 300-baht guarantee does not apply to him because he is not employed, he is self-employed.

I would also note that your girl friend's father is a law-breaker, according to your post - by paying his employee 6,000 baht per month. The law does not allow employers to claim that items like room and board and electricity are part of the salary.

In a typical four-Sunday month, like the one just passed working six days a week, that poor exploited man worked 27 days. He should have received, at 300 baht per day, a minimum of 8,100 baht. Yet you claim he was paid a paltry and illegal 6,000 baht. If you are correct in your accusations against your girl friend's father, he short-changed... well, cheated his worker out of 2,100 baht, last month alone.

All the man has to do is drop by the local Labour Office, sign a couple of papers, and he'll be in for a bit of a windfall.

But as the Rider person pointed out to you, the old Thai man of the OP has no such legal protection, since he is self-employed.

I have a quiet chuckle to myself when I read posts like yours above ...

You have NO IDEA ... and I hate saying stuff like that.

The labour market is a free flowing place ... if the Farm worker doesn't want to work those conditions and benefits, he moves on.

It's the high and mighty Westener who confuses the Law with the reality.

As for ... "All the man has to do is drop by the local Labour Office, sign a couple of papers, and he'll be in for a bit of a windfall." ...

[Robert2006]

bowerboy

One very rainy day, while working out at the gym someone came in with my motor bike plate in their hand attached to part of my fender. There was an accident, three young Thai girls on the way home from school had lost control and slid into two bikes, mine and another. The parents of the children were already there when I came out; it was obvious the Thai’s were not a wealthy family.

I watched as this fowl mouth Brit screamed and yelled profanities at the father over the amount of their settlement. I spoke with the girls (I can speak Thai) they were young 10 to 13 years and just adorable in the school uniforms, they were afraid and crying but not hurt. Finally the father and the Brit agreed on 3,500 baht, the father was literally counting 20 baht notes to settle the arrangement.

Then the father and I spoke, he apologized for his daughters driving and asked me what I thought it would cost to fix the bike. I said I was very happy the girls were not hurt and I understood it was just an accident in bad weather. I looked at the girls and said if they would agree to drive more carefully I had no problem paying for the repairs myself. The girls light up with smiles and all hugged me at the same time the mother and father thanked me, they all gave me a wai and that was that. It made me feel great, best 2,500 baht I ever spent.

What goes around comes around; it’s never a bad thing to help someone when you can, someday someone may do the same for you.

[PaullyW]

You guys disgust me. You'd help Thais (who would NEVER help you) but probably wouldn't help your own kind.

No wonder they call us dumb farangs

Why you still here?If i hate my neighbours i should move to somewhere else.

I'm not here. I'm over there now.

[POSA290103]

Most likely they are both scamming you. Amazing Gullible Farangs

This is almost certainly true. The penniless gardener and the rich Benz driver got together one afternoon over a beer and thought "what is the best way to scam 8,000 baht out of that stupid farang across the road?" an they came up with this. You have to admire the Thais for their genius.

Does the word facetious apply here? I think some don't get it. Relax

Finally!!! I was beginning to think that TV forum was full of Forrest Gump clones.

You had me laughing my as- off. This kind of stuff helps keep me somewhat sane. Keep it up!

[kurnell]

This is almost certainly true. The penniless gardener and the rich Benz driver got together one afternoon over a beer and thought "what is the best way to scam 8,000 baht out of that stupid farang across the road?" an they came up with this. You have to admire the Thais for their genius.

Does the word facetious apply here? I think some don't get it. Relax

Finally!!! I was beginning to think that TV forum was full of Forrest Gump clones.

You had me laughing my as- off. This kind of stuff helps keep me somewhat sane. Keep it up!

I'm just ranting so that I can hit my 4,000th post.

[POSA290103]

bowerboy

One very rainy day, while working out at the gym someone came in with my motor bike plate in their hand attached to part of my fender. There was an accident, three young Thai girls on the way home from school had lost control and slid into two bikes, mine and another. The parents of the children were already there when I came out; it was obvious the Thai’s were not a wealthy family.

I watched as this fowl mouth Brit screamed and yelled profanities at the father over the amount of their settlement. I spoke with the girls (I can speak Thai) they were young 10 to 13 years and just adorable in the school uniforms, they were afraid and crying but not hurt. Finally the father and the Brit agreed on 3,500 baht, the father was literally counting 20 baht notes to settle the arrangement.

Then the father and I spoke, he apologized for his daughters driving and asked me what I thought it would cost to fix the bike. I said I was very happy the girls were not hurt and I understood it was just an accident in bad weather. I looked at the girls and said if they would agree to drive more carefully I had no problem paying for the repairs myself. The girls light up with smiles and all hugged me at the same time the mother and father thanked me, they all gave me a wai and that was that. It made me feel great, best 2,500 baht I ever spent.

What goes around comes around; it’s never a bad thing to help someone when you can, someday someone may do the same for you.

You]re a good man Robert!

[Chonburiram]

...It could be 50 TBH per day or even less for the poorest.

In our soi ( Soi Maha Setee = Street of the Super Rich in the town we live in ) gardeners/ cleaners are picked up at their abodes with Volvos, Tunas etc. by the houseowners or his wifes.

All necessary tools are provided, iced water ( sometimes when a kid/ grandkid is with them, soft drinks ), brekkie, lunch, packed dinner, fruit/vegetables, empty plastic bottles/cans, clothes, school uniforms/shoes, toys, used phones/computers/TV's, whatever isn't used anymore is given to them.

During work, they are made as comfortable as possible, umbrellas, fans, aircon, chairs and mats can be used to free will.

The interaction is characterized by utmost respect.

After work, they are given 500 - 1000 ฿ + fare + money to buy sweets for the kids. KamalaRider, you have no idea how difficult it is to get a decent non live in help...

[kannot]

I would do it, Karma will pay you back big time.

There is too much selfishness in this world as it is, I think we all in Thailand own something back as what a great place to live and enjoy and we are getting it for 20% the cost of our own country.

Wow, what a dumb post. Sorry. Karma? Is that like the the story of the guy in the sky who watches over all of us?

We foreigners owe Thailand exactly FA. We pay to play. Matters not what our currencies buy us here. We don't owe the Thais anything because their country is relatively uncompetitive and poor. Where do you get these strange notions?

If you are so smart why do you not understand the simple equation of Newton's third law of ... For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction?

Also my soulless fellow human - If you stay in a friend house for a week till you get a place to stay where it suits your lifestyle - do you not think you own this friend?

so if i think you are a dick .............

[Gringogazzer]

Like you said, the money is irrelevant to you.

Locate the Benz driver, tell her you heard of this poor, hard working, old mans misfortune and would like to help out.

Give her ฿5000 for the repairs which you could see as you've located her, leaving her with the dilemma of chasing a potless Thai family for ฿3000 when a farang has felt their pain and stepped up with ฿5000.

Let her take some of the hit. And the Benz driver will surely report back to the old fella of your actions, and we all like people to know of the good deeds we do anonymously.

[jacko45k]

Visit the Benz owner and see if you can come to an arrangement....4k each.

It is of course up to you if you help these people, I believe you will get 8000 bahts worth of 'warm and fuzzy' feelings.

Let us hope that is sufficient.

Edited June 3, 2014 by jacko45k

[Seastallion]

OP, I suggest, as have others sort of, to approach the guy and ask him if and how he intends to pay it. Tell him you can help, but give no cash, and it is on condition of him helping you too.

Give him a sack of rice and a few 1000bht worth of groceries. Tell him he now has no expenses for a few months and can pay the car owner. Tell him he can work it off at his convenience.

[bra]

I discussed this with Ms Bra to get a Thai view. She thinks it could be that the Mercedes owner like most (not all) Thais will try to extract money from those less well off than themselves. If the Merc had been run into by a bigger and better Merc and driven by someone more hi so then the Merc driver would not have dared to put on the hard word for cash.

We agree that that the OP should pay if he wishes to do so and can afford it. It could be that the Merc driver may have acted with a hot heart when the accident occurred, and could have calmed down now and even feel some regret for her actions. The suggestion is that the OP has a Thai man (maybe the village head) go and see the driver, and suggest that she and the OP share the cost. It could work, but if not then the OP is still up for the full cost. This is not for the OP save money so much but to enable some face saving all round. The village head can then go to the Gardner and explain that the debt has been paid.