Installing a kitchen on a wall which isnt level

[mike111]

I'm thinking of replacing the kitchen in the condo with a production-line (so to say) model, that is, not something custom made, but one of the models offered by Lite/Starmark/Index etc.

The wall where the kitchen is installed isnt level (by design), namely, about 1.5m from the entrance it protrudes a few extra cm, for about another 1m or so.

Here's a photo of a another condo, but same wall layout (I've circled the place where it start to protrude):

My question is: how can I install the kitchen? should I get a builder to level the wall? or will the kitchen installer be able to somehow align the cabinets?

Cheers

[A. BOOZER]

Simply use some spacing batons behind the new units

[Puyai]

It looks like the gap from the back wall to the edge of the corner is at least 6 inches. maybe too large to batten out the wall. It also might make the units protude from the wall too much making it difficult to use the sink.

Just cut the unit to fit the corner.

[Johnnie99]

A wall? In Thailand? Not level? Methinks thou art a joker, young sir.

[harrry]

I think you will have to build the wall out so that it is flush with the protruding part. You will have to be careful this space does not become a trap for insects and vermin. Alsoyou will effectively lose about a square meter of condo space and is this a good use of it.

[trogers]

Probably not an issue about bad construction. Very common to find columns larger than thicknesses of walls.

I would still build my kitchen cabinet against the wall and perhaps add a small cabinet where the column is located.

[BradinAsia]

A wall? In Thailand? Not level? Methinks thou art a joker, young sir.

Floors can be out of level, but walls? It's wrong terminology.

The wall has an offset (very common in condos). The best way to deal with that is custom

made cabinets. Attempting to Install a ready-made production cabinet unit would be like

installing a Honda City dashboard/instrument panel in a Toyota Fortuner -- it's not made

for it and it's not going to work.

If you force it, the results will look like a cob-job at best.

[Thaiready]

Its called shims....then hide the gap with molding

Edited June 7, 2014 by Thaiready

[kieran2698]

It is possible to fit a kitchen without doing anything to the wall. All they have to do is use a side panel of the wall unit and from this cup in a cover strip from the leveled cupboard scribed to the out of level wall.

For me it would come down to whether I was replacing the tiles or not. If replacing I would make the wall straight first. If not I would just fit the cupboards and then cover the gaps.

Another way is to use a melamine backboard. A sheet is fixed level to the wall for the wall units to be hung off this, the floor units and pushed up and leveled against it. This is faced melamine and is used without tiles.

[Mr Freeze]

So far , the replys sounds like the blind leading the blind ,

Perhaps if you leave the existing cupboards up , and fill them with concrete you could fit the new cupboards on the front when it's set , of course !

Designed, made and fitted custom and " off the shelf " kitchens for 35 years years , if its over 25mm difference cut the back of the cupboard , and refit a new back to compensate . Use new malamine board , if you can't make do with a back of a cupboard you remove .

Screw and glue the new back on ( make sure you use a pilot hole for the screws )

If the inside looks a bit rough where you've cut it , run a bead of white silicon around .

Otherwise use the batan method , already suggested .

[peterb17]

Personally I would not buy ready made units from Index etc. When renovating my condo I had plans drawn up by Index ( free service) but the final layout was a mess- they try to fit specific cabinet sizes into your space- so things like open shelves on corners appeared .

Typically the walls were not straight- so had a kitchen made - all high gloss - pull out units ( Hafele is very good for the runners / unit furniture. It cost less than the quoted price at Index.

The work tops can be scribed to account for the wonky walls.

I used a glass mosaic behind the work tops which looks stylish ( avoid the obsession with coloured grouts that the Thai builders love- horrible )

From the pic you posted the space looks quite small, you need to plan carefully to make a reasonable working kitchen.

If you have the cash - go for an induction hob- brilliant and does not heat up your room. ( but pricy for a good one)

Good luck- really spend time on planning/ drawings/ finishes /tiles - the kitchen will be there for some time

[Mr Freeze]

So far , the replys sounds like the blind leading the blind ,

Perhaps if you leave the existing cupboards up , and fill them with concrete you could fit the new cupboards on the front when it's set , of course !

Designed, made and fitted custom and " off the shelf " kitchens for 35 years years , if its over 25mm difference cut the back of the cupboard , and refit a new back to compensate . Use new malamine board , if you can't make do with a back of a cupboard you remove .

Screw and glue the new back on ( make sure you use a pilot hole for the screws )

If the inside looks a bit rough where you've cut it , run a bead of white silicon around .

Otherwise use the batan method , already suggested .

[Mousehound]

Fitting kitchens is a bit of an art - requires patience really. Very few floors are really flat and walls perpendicular. That is why professional kitchen installers/makers can make a living. A compromise I have found is to buy cheap mass produced doors and units and build the kitchen with any parts that don't really fit being custom built. Mostly I use IKEA or similar. However, lately I have just gone in with required material and built from scratch. In the end it has been as quick if not quicker and usually a better design. I get post forming done to order.

[keeniau96]

I used Kitzcho cabinets in the two kitchens (Thai & Western) in my house, built about 5 years ago, look very similar to those you show in the picture. Mounted 8 double-door cabinets in total, also two corner units and 8 end units. Bought the cabinets at HomeWorks, good price, very good quality. I did not use the handles packed with the cabinets but bought some long, modern ones at Haefle with good design results. The cabinets are installed by hanging on two brackets internally in the top corners, very solid installation of the brackets with long screws into the cement/brick. So you have to align the hanging location, which is no problem on flat wall but would require a shim on your wall. I would screw in (very, very solid screwing) a solid horizontal wood board (something like a 2 x 4) to provide the top mounting surface which would be built out to match the thickness of the offset. Place another such shim at the bottom to provide a solid surface (it will not be used for mounting) for the bottom of cabinets. It is a bit tricky mounting and leveling the cabinets but you get the hang of it after the first one or two.

[Justanotherpassword]

Presuming you want a properly sized refrigerator the space will be deeper than the wall indent which is a support structure. (Be sure to leave an inch in all sides for the refrigerator to "breathe" correctly. Do not lose that space. The wall is "straight" but the wall is "irregular." Over the irregular portion you can have the same cabinets custom made to size (so that you are not looking at the support through the glass) and fit perfectly and this can become storage for glassware, coffee cups, spices. plastic storage containers etc. etc. They can use concrete screws directly into your existing walls/tiles, but it may be a good option to remove tiles and replace them with something fresh, clean and easy to keep up (Brushed stainless steel is also an option). Be certain that they use silicon based grout in the new tiles if you get them as the "powder grout" will absorb stains. Flush electric cooking elements rather than the traditional "hobs."

Use a contractor who specializes in kitchens and does a good job at finish carpentry. Remember the joy of a "cheap price" is quickly overwhelmed by the annoyance of a bad appearance. If you own this you may want to sell it someday. Imagine what you would want if you were thinking of buying your room anew. If you want this kitchen remodel to "pay for itself" spend the extra money on a good refrigerator including any model with "inverter" technology. (Hitachi comes to mind, but others may have it too) as it will pay you back in energy savings.

The above suggestions presume you intend to cook in. If you do not really plan to cook in for your lifestyle just create a "coffee bar" as though you are in a hotel room with a single sink and (Still I would suggest a tall slim fridge because they cost less to run than the short squat ones) under cabinet microwave to give you more counter top, no hobs and your option of a coffee maker with minimal cabinets.

[delh]

If its within your capability, cut the back out of base units where the wall depth is reduced, If not and if the depth allows,use a wall unit, at base height, where the depth is reduced. I assume the wall units and base units are the same height as per european sizes. You may find support legs from Hafele for this, if the DIY chains don't sell them.

Edited June 7, 2014 by delh

[gigman]

To be honest I can not see much from this photo and level and vertical are 2 different things.

In each case I would redo cabinets (custom made) or just fix the wall (applying thin new wall eg. using large piece of chipboard or just thin timber frame and gypsum board)

"Patching" job always does not look good.

Anyway everything depends who will do it....

In my past experience ...even in Australia's old housing (including old colonial dwellings) we had a lot of this type of problems hence hard to blame Thai people.

Even in recent time in new housing kitchen benches made from stone (as granite) must be made by using template because wall are often not under 90 deg........

As I said before ...it depends from builder or person who is taking care about kitchen , bathrooms dimensions before final plaster is applied.

P.S

I am builder and cabinet maker.

Edited June 7, 2014 by gigman

[joshstiles]

What exactly are you referring to as "a few extra cm". In your photo you are showing a chase in the kitchen. The existing cabinets are notched to fit to the chase. Any new cabinets would also have to be notched / modified to fit to the chase. If you are talking about an uneven wall surface which creates a gap of a few cm....then you will have to use shims to correct for the abnormality.

Please provide a better description of what you are referring to. Also....walls are never referred to as 'level'.....walls are plumb. Floors are level.

[mike111]

Mates, thanks for the replies and suggestions.

The protrusion is about 20cm thick, and is so by design (its NOT a builder's hiccup). I'm thinking that shims wont be adequate, since a 20cm gap is too big.

Say I'd go for a custom made 1.80m to 1.90m kitchen (lower + upper cabinets, granite counter), high gloss, cabinets scribed to account for the protrusion. How much should I be expecting to pay?. I dont need something too flashy, but a good functional kitchen with a modern look.

Any suggestions for a custom kitchen builder in Jomtien?

Cheers

Edited June 7, 2014 by mike111

[Rusty Keyhole]

Installing a kitchen on a wall that is not level is as easy as installing one on a level wall. A wall that is not plumb is another matter entirely.

[MMarlow]

Installing a kitchen on a wall that is not level is as easy as installing one on a level wall. A wall that is not plumb is another matter entirely.

Very useful. I think everyone knows what he means.

[IMHO]

Mates, thanks for the replies and suggestions.

The protrusion is about 20cm thick, and is so by design (its NOT a builder's hiccup). I'm thinking that shims wont be adequate, since a 20cm gap is too big.

Say I'd go for a custom made 1.80m to 1.90m kitchen (lower + upper cabinets, granite counter), high gloss, cabinets scribed to account for the protrusion. How much should I be expecting to pay?. I dont need something too flashy, but a good functional kitchen with a modern look.

Any suggestions for a custom kitchen builder in Jomtien?

Cheers

We have now used Kvik.co th for 3 house builds (5 kitchens), and very impressed with quality, price and service. Other alternatives are Modernform, SB, Index, and Starmark, but in our latest projects they weren't able to match Kvik prices or warranty.

[wayned]

A wall? In Thailand? Not level? Methinks thou art a joker, young sir.

And all of the walls in your home country are straight are they?

[atyclb]

what about cutting the rear top and bottom panels of the cabinet to conform to the wall protrusion. This way you just lose a little space in the one cabinet as opposed to losing much more space.

[Justanotherpassword]

This brings us right back to the question. You want a fully operational kitchen with space maximised. You have to plunk down the dough and have a proper company do the job and "give you ideas" in addition to what has been presented to you. I think you need a custom built to size solution and the original idea I suggested. Get a new sink, countertop, the works.

[sdanielmcev]

Does that corner protrusion go down through to the floor? Then, would be simple enough to cut the back and the side out of the new cabinet, also the countertop. Is 1.9 meters the full length of the top cabinets, and bottom? A custom built cabinet would not be necessary, and I am a cabinet maker.

[wayned]

Most likely the protrusion covers water and drain pipes to the floors above and below. I had a similar situation in my townhouse and had the guys from Home Pro come out and measure. They made the cabinets to fit and came back a couple of days later and installed them.

If you buy ready made cabinets, the installer would need to be a good finish carpenter to modify and install them correctly and from what I have sen these guys are are not!

[ClutchClark]

So far , the replys sounds like the blind leading the blind ,

Perhaps if you leave the existing cupboards up , and fill them with concrete you could fit the new cupboards on the front when it's set , of course !

Designed, made and fitted custom and " off the shelf " kitchens for 35 years years , if its over 25mm difference cut the back of the cupboard , and refit a new back to compensate . Use new malamine board , if you can't make do with a back of a cupboard you remove .

Screw and glue the new back on ( make sure you use a pilot hole for the screws )

If the inside looks a bit rough where you've cut it , run a bead of white silicon around .

Otherwise use the batan method , already suggested .

Mr Freeze,

I was with you on the first sentence but the second sentence had me asking, "What the heck kind of knucklehead advice is this"? ;-)

Glad I read through the rest of the post as its "the" correct answer.

OP, rather than describing it as "level", which is a horizontal description (i.e. countertop) just like "plumb" is a vertical description (i.e. doorjamb), you could refer to this wall protrusion as not being "flush" with the wall. These framed out spaces are typically for utilities such as a vent or possibly wiring or waterlines.

Cheers

[ClutchClark]

Most likely the protrusion covers water and drain pipes to the floors above and below. I had a similar situation in my townhouse and had the guys from Home Pro come out and measure. They made the cabinets to fit and came back a couple of days later and installed them.

If you buy ready made cabinets, the installer would need to be a good finish carpenter to modify and install them correctly and from what I have sen these guys are are not!

I should have read all the posts first, the guy with the Golden beat me to it ;-)

[Crossy]

A really dumb suggestion, the OP has a photo of a solution in his post, why not do it like that?