Lipa Noi Storms?!

[leola74]

I am looking at some beachfront land in Lipa Noi, and different people, all with different vested interests, are telling me different stories about the danger over there.

There are some dilapidated houses about 300m North of the Nikki Beach (or about 100m North of the Lipa Lodge). The land is right there.

One person claims that the sea gets very stormy in the winter, and that those houses were ruined by a big wave in a storm a few years ago. This person says it is too dangerous to build a seafront house there. Of course, there are several other seafront houses nearby, but allegedly that very place were the dilapidated houses are standing is a wind channel, and hence more dangerous than 50m further to each side.

Other people, including police(!), say none of this is true, and that those houses were not ruined by a wave but by neglect over many, many years.

So ........ what is the story here? Does anyone know the area well and can advise on the storm situation? Were those houses really ruined by a wave?

Any help is appreciated!

[Mole]

I've walked past those houses several times and it just looks like they built it too close to the beach so that eventually the ocean got to it. In December/January when level of the ocean is highest, during storms, I'm pretty sure the waves will even get into the houses. Perhaps during construction planning, they only calculated the ocean level to be like in June/July when it's average about 1.5m lower than December.

However, if you notice a bit further north, out in the ocean you will see there's some kind of natural rocks forming a wall against the waves. During December when water level is high, even when waves are high, this place tends to have very little wave because of the rocks.

I also remember that other seafront houses in that area (including Nikki Beach) has built huge concrete wall to protect against the waves.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Mole

[Rooo]

This is why they ask to build 10 metres back from your boundary if you are on the water's edge.

[samuijimmy]

OP quote..... "Other people, including police(!), say none of this is true, and that those houses were not ruined by a wave but by neglect over many, many years."

I know these houses, the above statement is a bunch of BS .... they have been destroyed by storms, very obvious I would say .... a number of shattered dreams along that section. Can't find my images of them at the moment) but one would not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out what has happened! .... with the low tides at the moment it is hard to imagine what it would be like in storm season...

I was surprised a few weeks ago on last visit, how many new houses were being built in the area.... but set back from the beach... perhaps safer!...?

Edited June 9, 2014 by samuijimmy

[farang62]

Agree with everyone, but the prime factor is lack of maintenance and no funds to maintaine them.

On 2 the construction methods are crazy, the others abandon and evidently forgotten.

Great properties, just need proper buiding methods for the location.

[Mole]

I've walked past there both in June (during extreme low) and in December (during extreme high) and I can tell you that the waves goes right up onto the houses and you can't even walk on the beach at all. One of the houses, the left most I think has its terrace formed like the bow of a ship. I had to walk on the terraces of those abandoned houses because the waves were so high.

The level of water goes right up 50cm against the concrete wall at Nikki Beach, and further north there's another house with high walls and that place I had to walk on their wall because the water was over 1m deep during extreme high. During low tide season (such as now), you can comfortably walk on the beach in front of those concrete walls.

At the beginning when I moved here 5 years ago (time certainly flies), I wanted to explore the beaches of Samui and see the difference during extreme low tides and high. Now that I know how high the tides can be, I naturally prefer the low tides, which is much easier to walk.

It's about 2m in difference during extreme low and high. Extreme lows are in June-July-August and high are December-January. But the general level of ocean is also different during these seasons, so there's actually only about 1m or so in difference during high and low tides each season.

Also keep in mind that during storm surges, the water level will be even higher than that + the height of waves.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Mole

[leola74]

The level of water goes right up 50cm against the concrete wall at Nikki Beach, and further north there's another house with high walls and that place I had to walk on their wall because the water was over 1m deep during extreme high. During low tide season (such as now), you can comfortably walk on the beach in front of those concrete walls.

Wow, this is SUPER helpful, thank you. I actually haven't been to Lipa Noi in the winter, so this is exactly the info I was looking for.

Now I wonder about the other houses around there which don't have a high wall. There is the big white one on the northern end of the stretch of ruins (built by the owner of Nikki Beach), which has a glass wall about 1.5m high - that's no protection! And at the southern end of the stretch of ruins there is the Baan Phulay with a wall about 50cm high - again not enough protection. What did you notice about these houses when you walked along the beach in the winter?

[Mole]

Yeah, I think I remember that one with the glass wall and the water does go right into it.

Such a shame that I don't have any pics, because back then I had a habit of not bringing my phone with me when walking on the beach, part because I didn't want to accidentally drop it into the water (which I later did on 2 of my phones which needed to be replaced). But another main reason is that I for once wanted to get away from this device and just walk without interruption.

After I realized just how cumbersome it is to walk during high tides, I haven't done that ever since. Maybe good excuse for a new round this December.

I now always bring with my phone on my walks though. The geek has caught up in me and I now record all my progress in Runkeeper and the nice thing about it is that I can take a pic and it'll show up on the map where I took it.

In June 2013, I walked during extreme tides in that area.

http://runkeeper.com/user/SeeingMole/activity/199471913

Unfortunately I didn't take that much pics this time, but there's one which should be those houses you're talking about.

In December, the water goes right up to the bow of that "boat", and you can't really walk on the beach.

[leola74]

Yes, the houses I am talking about are just 2 or 3 "doors" down from the house with the "boat". You can see the big white one with the glass front in the background of your picture. Here's a picture of the ones I'm talking about, you can see the one with the "boat" in the back.

So it appears that the people who built the big white one, as well as the Baan Phulay (between "mine" and the "boat", see the red triangle in my picture) are crazy! Their walls are not nearly high enough to protect against the tide in case of a storm. And yet their houses are still standing. Do you know what height of wave one would have to "budget" for in Lipa Noi? That is, what is the highest ever measured?

[Mole]

In December the water goes all the way up to that concrete wall alright. I remember I had to walk on top of it.

Seems like it was very badly built and they didn't do the foundation properly, hence the entire floor collapsed in on itself.

You can see that all the sand on top of the wall must have been brought there by the crushing waves during storms.

To be on the safe side, I would recommend at least 2 m, which is what the properties further north has done. There's this one property just beside that small stream further north. But then you'll also have to raise your entire properly as well. It's going to be a major investment. Not even sure if it's worthwhile or feasible to do it if you only buy 1 of the plots. If you're gonna raise your property 2m, you'll probably have to buy the entire row of properties. You'll have to build some kind of concrete wall all around your property as well to slow down the erosion.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Mole

[islandguy]

You can look at a tide chart to see how high the highest tides of the year will be. What the tide chart won't show you is what else will be happening during those hours. Year to year erosion varies greatly because the damage from the sea is a combination of factors. We get these higher tides during the stormiest and rainiest times of the year here on Samui. Tide level + wave height created by high winds + flood rains flowing from the land and rivers into the sea will create greater erosion and damage to seawalls and buildings than the same high tide on a calm day. Last rainy season it was mostly calm during those high tide periods. You can build walls, build on columns, and put tons of rock in front, but the sea tends to win those battles eventually. Best strategy, IMHO, is to build back from the shore line and plant lots of trees and bushes (some lovely mangroves, anyone?). Not most peoples' fantasy of the dream beach house. Also good to remember that if your neighbors put in a really impressive wall next to your property it will transmit the force of the water right at that corner of your property - sort of like the annual dumping of fill dirt around houses here to transfer flooding from inland to one's neighbor's house!

[Mole]

More pics from this area during extreme low tide. Today the tide was at its lowest this year.

The highest tides will be around 23-24-25 December, so I plan to head out to this place and take pics again for comparison. According to the charts, it should be about 2m in difference.

I do however remember when I went there during storm+extreme high tide a few years back, that glass villa entire ground floor was flooded in about 1 foot water.

The water level was about half way up that stone wall.

Water goes up to that beach gate.

This turns into a river and must swim across.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Mole

[leola74]

I do however remember when I went there during storm+extreme high tide a few years back, that glass villa entire ground floor was flooded in about 1 foot water.

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This is SUPER helpful, thank you so much. Can't wait to see the December pictures. About what time did you go there today? Lowest tide was around 8:45am...

Just one question: Is the one in your pic above the one you mean by " glass villa"? So this one would actually flood during a storm in December?? If so, it was built at least 2m too low.

Edited July 12, 2014 by yoellax

[Mole]

Yes, the glass house in that area. I was actually surprised that it has been cleaned and in use. When I saw it flooded, it looked really run down and abandoned.

My runkeeper activity log with more pics and their locations.

http://runkeeper.com/user/SeeingMole/activity/391273183?

I started around 6AM and I guess I was there around 7, but there shouldn't be that much different to 8:45.

Was unable to walk past the river near Nathon Hospital because they've dug a small canal out of the river. Although it was only about 50cm of water, it was quicksand, so could potentially be deadly to try wade across.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Mole

[leola74]

That's pretty crazy! That house was built by the owner of Nikki Beach for himself, though he no longer lives there. I believe it is rented out now. He build the Nikki Beach "correctly", but failed when he built his own house. Very obviously the house doesn't respect the 10m rule (nor the one-storey rule). Totally insane!

I can't wait to see the December pictures. I think they will imply that it is impossible to build something safe on the land of those dilapidated houses. You'd have to pile up so much soil underneath that you'll run foul of the 6m-high-rule. Perhaps that's why those ruins are still standing on the nicest beach on the island...

[Mole]

I happen to be in that area this morning and took some pics. I guess the ocean was about average level.

According to the tide charts, it should be almost at its highest on November 26 13:14.

I'll go and take some pics then.

It's also at its highest on December 23-24-25 and I think I'll go take some pics then too. But not sure if I'll be in Bangkok during those dates, but probably not.

The land in this area belongs to an elderly lady, but she has sold many parts and is still selling.

The land just around and behind that "boat house" was sold and is nearly finished developed into some deluxe bungalows and swimming pool.

She also said she already sold the land with those houses in OPs question.

[No1Farang]

Mole,

Out of interest where do you get your tide table from? I have found some for Suratthani but nothing for Samui.

[Mole]

Oh, it's the same chart for Samui and Suratthani.

Obviously it would be really weird if there was any difference between these areas...

[Rooo]

Mole,

Out of interest where do you get your tide table from? I have found some for Suratthani but nothing for Samui.

Oh, it's the same chart for Samui and Suratthani.

Obviously it would be really weird if there was any difference between these areas...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/98300-important-faqs-for-the-islands-samui-phangan-tao/?p=7218032#entry7218032

[No1Farang]

Thanks Rooo. There is a difference between the two places but it's only small.

[Mole]

Today, according to tide charts, the level of water is almost at its highest. The highest is on December 24, but there's only a tiny difference.

According to the charts, there's about 2m in difference between today and lowest tide in July.

The water today was relatively calm though. But if you imagine a storm and high waves, I don't think I would have felt comfortable being in those houses.

Really bad judgement of that Nikki Beach villa building it so low.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Mole

[islandguy]

Thought of you, Mole, yesterday. It was dead calm where I live on the West Side, and little rainwater leaving the land into the sea. So that picture shows a best case scenario for the impact of the high tide on the property.

Today, according to tide charts, the level of water is almost at its highest. The highest is on December 24, but there's only a tiny difference.

According to the charts, there's about 2m in difference between today and lowest tide in July.

The water today was relatively calm though. But if you imagine a storm and high waves, I don't think I would have felt comfortable being in those houses.

Really bad judgement of that Nikki Beach villa building it so low.