After Four Months I've Fallen Off The Waggon.

[Mobi]

First of all I think this sub forum is a good idea. There is clearly a high percentage of farangs in Thailand who have some sort of alcohol problem, and I am sure that percentage is equally representative in the TV forums.

I'm not sure if I'm an alcoholic - maybe I'll never know. I've read many definitions through the years, including those put out in the AA info sheets and web sites. I'm still not sure, but 4 months ago I came to the conclusion that I probably was, and decided to call it a day. I was never a bottle of vodka a day merchant - mainly preferred to mix it up. A typical day would start well before the sun went down with a few beers, then maybe a few GT"s or Vodka T's, then possibly a bottle of wine. Then it would be time to hit the bars where I would invariable get stuck into the Black Labels and soda. Home time was when the bars threw me out. Not every day was like this - sometimes just a few drinks at home and an early night, other days I would keep it more under control, but the heavy days became more frequent. Worse, were the terrible rows with the wife, bordering on the violent (her to me - I was just very loud and abusive), and the ravages to my body - I am a diabetic with heart disease.

So four months ago, I decided that if I was to save my marriage and possible my life, I'd better give it my best shot. I should add that I successfully quit smoking 23 years ago, after being a 4 pack a day man for over 20 years.

I have to say I didn’t find the four months a major problem. My marital relations immediately improved, my weight dropped along with my blood pressure, and I can honestly say that I suffered little, if any, withdrawal symptoms. The main problems were boredom, maybe a bit of depression, and lack of enjoyment on the few occasions I hit the night spots, either alone or with the wife. I even went through my 60th birthday stone cold sober, and wasn't that bothered.

Then on 9th June, the wife went into town at 3 pm - said she'd be back by 8 at the latest, and eventually turned up pissed as a newt at about 4 a.m. By 11 p.m. I had the bottle of scotch open, and by 4 was pretty pissed, even though I had scarcely drunk a quarter of the bottle.

The next day I went to Pattaya and hit the bars, drank a load of Thai whisky sodas, and returned at 4 a.m.

(Snap!)

Since then, I have been out socially, about 3 times, twice with the wife, and on each occasion I have stuck to Sangsom sodas, and been a little tipsy, but no more. We went up country for a big village party on Friday - I drank Thai whisky slowly and socially on Friday and Saturday - again a little tipsy on both nights, but no hangovers, no after effects. In between I haven't drunk at all at home, and certainly not alone. (I don't count having a drink with bar girls drinking alone). I have to say the first night out was wonderful, ran into a number of interesting farangs and had some good old discussions - helped along by a little alcohol. It was what I had missed for 4 months.

On the days I don't drink, I feel nothing. I used to have a craving - I couldn't go through single day without drinking. But now I don't seem to mind. Maybe it will come back, but right now I honestly can say I can take it or leave it, and as long as it stays this way then I reckon I'm OK. If things go back to where they were before, I think I can stop again. It wasn’t that hard - just bloody boring. I like my bars, and the chats, and 'company'. Is it possible that I'm not an alcoholic? And that I just let things go a bit too far - probably due to personal traumas - divorces, rip offs, marital fights etc? My relationship is the best it’s ever been right now, and I don't want to ruin that.

I read Khutan's post on Tuky's thread with great interest, as he seemed to be suggesting that it is possible to change from being an alkie to a social drinker. I would welcome more on this if anyone knows about it.

[ThaiPauly]

IMHO .. you CANNOT be a social drinker (having read your post in great detail)

You, Yourself said how much your life had changed for the better when you did not drink.

Just becuase your "Other Half" drinks..she is "Enableing" you to drink too.

Its just too ###### risky... Of course you like the social scene that goes with drinking.. but if you really want to stop you have to "KEEP OUT OF WET PLACES" A direct quote from AA.

PM me if you want a further anaylsis of your problem (That sounds big -headed of me..but I don't mean it to come across like that) I promise it will be between the 2 of us

Regards

TP

[tuky]

I am certainly no expert on being sober, but from what I do know with guys like me it is either one way or the other.

I personally work a 10 hour day (Perhaps 1 day every 2 months I am unable to show up due to drink) and do fine without drink for a few hours. I wake up each morning with a horrid mouth thinking "tonight I will not drink" but by 9am I am feeling much better and looking forward to knocking off work so I can have another drink.

Even after everything I have said in the other thread Mobi I have had a drink tonight, I am now talking to George about starting some kind of support forum to run alongside this forum. I can't do it alone.

If you feel that way too, then you should join. But how do you feel about the drink? Does it call to you? ARe you bored if you have not had a drink?

How would you feel about a break from it and helping to encourage some of us that have trouble getting away from it?

Anyway, thanks so much for posting, please keep with us mate as you may be the guy that says the right thing at the right time.

BTW, when your missus went out for a drink, why did you open that bottle? were you worried? were you lonely? or were you trying to show her who is boss?

Interesting if you look at it that way isn't it?

[bkkmadness]

IMHO .. you CANNOT be a social drinker (having read your post in great detail)

I am certainly no expert on being sober, but from what I do know with guys like me it is either one way or the other.

I disagree, its doesn't have to be one way or the other, an inbetween can be found.

I have seen those 'are you an alchie' tests many times before and each time came out with the worst result. I done everything wrong, drinking alone, not being able to stop after the slightest bit of alchohol touched my lips, drink when depressed/drink got depressed etc.

The last few years I don't think I ever had a drink without going through into the next day and only stopped when passing out. Many a time I've been drinking through to the next afternoon just coz I decided and mistakenly thought I could handle a couple of beers the night before.

Thats something thats changed this year. Here's a story, the other night I popped out to play some pool and coz I am really trying to improve my game it was easy to stay on the soft drinks all night.

Towards the end of the night when I was a bit bored playing and was chating with a few people I decided on a few glasses of straight scotch.

A year ago this would have got me started and next day would have been a total write off, but do you know, not until I was sat in front of the box that night watching some TV that I realised I didn't buy any extra drinks for home (something that was totally habitual before since the bars were a warm up venue for me, the home drinking the real deal), in fact quite shockingly I realised I passed the family mart without even thinking of getting another beer in!

This is probably a silly story for some people to read but for others you'll see the lesson in it. In my case I think I may have become a social drinker, someone who can stop at whim and doesn't panic when that bottle is looking empty or the last orders are to be called.

I used to think it was all or nothing, and I would never have thought I could just become a social drinker again but that little incident really told me different.

[britmaveric]

Moderation is the key.

[bkkmadness]

Moderation is the key.

I think the point of this forum is to show that its a key thats often very hard to find. But it is there.

[britmaveric]

Drank 12 lagers this wkd by the pool over like 11hrs.

[p1p]

I read Khutan's post on Tuky's thread with great interest, as he seemed to be suggesting that it is possible to change from being an alkie to a social drinker. I would welcome more on this if anyone knows about it.

Medical knowledge would seem to preclude that possibility for a true alcoholic. Alcoholism is an illness that has no cure once you suffer from it. It involves a measurable difference in brain chemistry that never reverses itself - with the result that, even after many years off the sauce, a sniff of the booze can reawaken the old craving. It is not worth it to experiment.

As an aside. I had an alcoholic cousin who was famously (supposedly) killed by a sherry trifle! After many years off the booze, he was served a boozy trifle at a wedding. That small amount of alcohol sent him off the rails and he drank himself to death over the next two days.

If you crack the addiction and manage to get off the booze. Please don't kid yourself and think you can have another some months or years later. You are just starting yourself on the same old slippery slope again and will, sooner or later, be back to the drunk every day scenario that will eventually kill you...

[Mobi]

IMHO .. you CANNOT be a social drinker (having read your post in great detail)

You, Yourself said how much your life had changed for the better when you did not drink.

Just becuase your "Other Half" drinks..she is "Enableing" you to drink too.

Its just too ###### risky... Of course you like the social scene that goes with drinking.. but if you really want to stop you have to "KEEP OUT OF WET PLACES" A direct quote from AA.

PM me if you want a further anaylsis of your problem (That sounds big -headed of me..but I don't mean it to come across like that) I promise it will be between the 2 of us

Regards

TP

Thanks TP, I might take you up on that offer. Just for the record and for those who have asked, yes part of my current problem in trying to quit is that the other half drinks. It is a bit strange, but I wouldn't mind betting she is also an alkie. She regularly lays off the booze for days, and even weeks at at time, but when she drinks, she doesn't stop until she's paralytic, and then she's usually ill for 2 days - vows never to drink again for a 'long time'. But a week or so later the cycle starts again, out for an evening with friends, promising not to drink too much, be home by midnight etc, but crawls in the door at 4 am, or, as on several occasions, passes out at her friend's house and doesn't come home at all. A couple of weeks ago we went to BKK overnight, as I had an early morning hospital appointment. She was there for 'comfort and company'. She took off for a meal with her friends and never came back - all night. I had no sleep, but didn't drink and kept my appointment. This sort of thing has happened about once a week over the past 4 months, and last week I'd just had enough, and out came the bottle.

In between, she is a charming, loving, solicitous wife, who caters to my every need. I am sure she isn't sleeping around - she just likes the booze. Of course when we were both pissed, we had terrible fights, which is why I decided to try and quit. Since then It has been much better, and we've hardly had a cross word in 4 months, and she has controlled her temper, even when pissed. Her drinking bouts have reduced, but she still relapses regularly. Is it possible to be a once a week alkie?

I would stress that I have been a very heavy drinker myself for years, and was probably at my worst drinking ebb, when I met the wife, having just come off a divorce, a failed relationship on the rebound, and a victim of a major rip off. So I don't blame the wife for my condition - its just that she's not excatly helping me to overcome it. She is very supportive of my efforts to quit, but has always told me that it's Ok to drink 'a little'. Well to those of you out there who have a problem you will know that this is music to your ears.

Tuky, I was originally going to post on your thread, but as I didn't have anything really positive to say (having just failed in my attempts to quit) I didn't want to discourage you. Thanks for your post, it all helps in some way. I do know how you feel, having spent many years in similar environments to yourself, where the only comfort was to drink myself to sleep every night. But the I also did it in more welcome environments - like Jakarta back in the old swinging days (I eventually lost that job due to drink - I never failed to show for work, but couldn't do anything when I got there), Bangkok of course, and even London where I held down a pretty major position for 17 years, but was rarely sober from lunch onwards.

Right now, I feel better than I have done in years - free from my unhappy marriage, got a wonderful wife, house, and enough money to keep me in comfort till I die. Life is idylic, which is why I thought it would be a good time to give it a go. The only fly in the ointment is the wife's drinking - if I could solve that I might have it made.

BTW - I didn't hit the bottle to show her who was boss - it was partly because I was feeling so upset at her behaviour, but also because I wanted her to feel guilty about being the cause of me drinking again - which I think she was. The next day, when I hit the bars until 4. am, it was to show her that 2 could play this game - and I'm not particularly proud to sday that it pribably worked, as she was very unhappy about me going out, and contrite about her behaviour and what it had pushed me to do.

[jayenram]

I can honestly say that I've never intentionally been "on the wagon". However, I have w*rked in dry Gulf states for one month at a time.

Reading the foregoing, I have concluded that albeit I could be classed as a piss 'ead, I am not an alcoholic.

When I was w*rking in the UK, it would be very rare that I had a drink before leaving the office. Upon leaving the office, I would generally call in a pub for 'a couple' (pints) with mates to 'wind down'. Upon arriving at home, I invariably opened a bottle of wine to share (5 to 1) with the wife. Only on Friday nights did I venture out to the pub for any more.

Upon moving to Asia alone (i.e. without family or colleagues) I found the evenings very boring in the hotel room so I tended to use the hotel bar to meet new friends. My consumption increased to around 6 to 8 pints per night with no nights off. I rarely drank in the hotel room (and it wasn't because I was too pissed ). This situation lasted for 5 1/2 years until I retired and moved to Thailand.

My drinking habits are now constant in that I never drink before 12 noon but rarely don't drink after. I spend most afternoons in a pub or playing snooker and usually head off home between 18:00 and 19:00. On arrival at home, I may pour myself a glass of beer but generally it doesn't lead to another. I keep around 10 pint bottles of beer in the fridge and at the moment have 13 cases 'in stock', i.e. beer is always available.

On one night per week, I may go out around town with friends but I find that by 12 o'clock or earlier, I have had enough and don't want anymore, even though the bars are still open.

My case for not going on the wagon, rests. But I would not suggest to anyone else not to try it should they so wish.

[OneeyedJohn]

i.e. beer is always available.

I thought for a minute this was link to ur home address

[Noel]

I just stumbled upon this thread whilst viewing new posts and have read the above with interest.

Do I drink too much? I am sure many would say that I do, whilst others would laugh at my current rate of consumption in comparison to theirs.

I drink every day and cannot imagine doing otherwise; I enjoy it! However, I really do not like getting legless; that I do not enjoy and I detest being unable to function properly the following day.

For reasons (excuses?) I will not bother going into, not so many years ago I freely admit I was drinking far too much. As with many others I suspect, I managed to ‘justify’ my drinking to myself; I also suspect that was nothing more than ‘denial’ or some such. Then something happened in my life which on the face of it gave me an even bigger reason to justify excessive alcohol consumption, yet oddly enough I did the opposite. Rather than seek refuge in the sauce in a feckless attempt to escape from reality, I became very aware of how I could end up so I began to monitor exactly how much I was drinking. I basically set myself limits and, surprisingly if the truth be told, I kept within those limits. At the same time, my frame of mind was such that I had no appetite for food, yet I forced myself to eat well, rather too well as it turned out.

Then, less than a year ago, I saw my reflection as I went down an escalator in a supermarket. I cringed as I looked at this fat-gutted person. I went out and bought some scales and, horrified at my weight, went on a strict diet. No, I did not stop drinking, but I did drastically reduce my self-imposed limits. Up until then, at the stroke of noon the first can of Heineken would open, followed by another seven during the course of the afternoon. However, if friends came round, the eight can limit would be happily ignored.

I began by allowing myself four cans, but would not drink before 2.00 pm. I substituted the volume by drinking water instead. The weight loss was too slow for my liking, so I later reduced the limit to three cans and put the start time back to 3.00pm. I have to admit that initially it was hard, but I then seemed to get used to it. I did however continue to drink red wine in the evening, but again did monitor how much.

I have maintained that regime to this day and have managed to lose about 30lbs, equating to a 20% total body weight reduction.

I now keep my weight within a 4lb corridor.

Not that there is anything particularly significant about weekends as I do not work, I only tend to go out then. Interestingly, whilst I set no limits when I go out, I tend to find that I will rarely exceed the old eight beer maximum and I avoid spirits like the plague; I drink them too quickly. I also eat whatever I feel like on weekends. I weigh myself every morning at the same time and track my weight on an Excel chart. The spikes on the graph on Sundays and Mondays, however, do tell the story…

So do I drink too much?

I personally do not think so and I do believe I am in control. I have absolutely no doubt that some will beg to differ, but my view is that even if I am doing myself harm and may not live as long as I would if I gave up drinking totally, I honestly do not care.

I enjoy that buzz that even a few beers and a few glasses of wine everyday bring. Am I in some form of denial? Possibly, but again I do not care if my quality of life definition in this regard does not sit well with those who preach abstention. At the end of the day it is my decision and of course I will have to live with any consequences.

Hmmm, I am not sure why I shared the above, but there it is for what it’s worth…

[Khutan]

Ok;

The Drinkers Diary is meant for people who are heavy drinkers, and may also be possibly be showing behaviour that the early stages of alcoholism. It is a Behaviour program, not a treatment program per se. If you need treatment, then you need to see a healthcare professional, not join in a group behaviour session.

I am not a Health-Care professional, and I do not formal training in this. If you feel your drinking has already given you a medical problem, be it mental pr physical, then you must see a Doctor first.

I have done this myself, and I have also helped friends through this technique. All except for one has succeeded at this, the one person who I will not say failed, rather this method was not for her, then went to a clinic and did the full detox and rehab.

If you think you are truly an alcoholic and you are dependant on alcohol to maintain yourself, go to a hospital or a clinic first.

Ask yourself some simple questions like these:

1. Do you lose work time because of your drinking

2. Is your drinking making your home-life unhappy

3. Is your drinking affecting your reputation

4. Have you ever felt remorse after drinking

5. Are you getting into financial problems because of your drinking

6. Do you go drinking with people who you would not in normal life associate with

7. Do you go to locations to drink you would not normally go to in normal life

8. Has your personal or career ambition reduced as an effect of your drinking

9. Do you crave for a drink at a certain time each day

10. Do you like to drink when you wake in the morning

11. Do you drink because you have difficulty sleeping

12. Has your effeciency decreased due to your drinking

13. Is your drinking making trouble for your business or job

14. Do you drink to escape "Life's troubles"

15. Do you drink alone

16. Do you suffer from memory loss after drinking

17. Have you ever been treated by a Doctor or been to Hospital because of your drinking

18. Do you drink to build your self confidence

19. Have you ever been to Rehab or Detox for your drinking

20. Have you lost friends or had family members keep away because of your drinking.

21. Do you have strong Personality changed when drinking.

22. Do you have regular hangovers

I know its simplistic, however if you have answered more than 4 of these questions as yes, then the Drinkers Diary is may not help, rather you should get an diagnosis from a hospital.

As I said before, the Drinkers Diary is about control, and looking inside yourself to see what motivates you to drink too much and why you want to do that.

The 90 day Detox is critical to this plan, as it also depends on lowering certain enzymes in your body.

The next step is to set realistic goals for what your future behaviour is. What is tolerated by your friends and family, and what is a healthy limit to put on your behaviour. Further to this, the ide is to put the brakes on what could be pushing you into a physical dependence on Alcohol.

Yes, some are born an alcoholic, but through too much and regular consumption, you can become physically dependent on many substances. When I was at University, there was a case study on a man who became physically dependent on Bi-Carb Soda, through regular consumption for indigestion.

As I said before also, if this is not for you, then try something else. I just want to help people through what can be a very difficult time in their life.

[tuky]

1. Do you lose work time because of your drinking Yes

2. Is your drinking making your home-life unhappy Making it easier

3. Is your drinking affecting your reputation Probably, but noone has commented

4. Have you ever felt remorse after drinking many times

5. Are you getting into financial problems because of your drinking No, I earna good wage

6. Do you go drinking with people who you would not in normal life associate with perhaps, not sure

7. Do you go to locations to drink you would not normally go to in normal life what is normal life?

8. Has your personal or career ambition reduced as an effect of your drinking Yes

9. Do you crave for a drink at a certain time each day Yes

10. Do you like to drink when you wake in the morning Sometimes, esp after a big night

11. Do you drink because you have difficulty sleeping I have difficulty sleeping if I don't drink

12. Has your effeciency decreased due to your drinking Probably

13. Is your drinking making trouble for your business or job Yes

14. Do you drink to escape "Life's troubles" Yes

15. Do you drink alone 90% is alone

16. Do you suffer from memory loss after drinking Yes everytime

17. Have you ever been treated by a Doctor or been to Hospital because of your drinking in Police lockup yes

18. Do you drink to build your self confidence It sure helps

19. Have you ever been to Rehab or Detox for your drinking Yes

20. Have you lost friends or had family members keep away because of your drinking. Probably

21. Do you have strong Personality changed when drinking. Yes, I am much happier

22. Do you have regular hangovers For a short while each morning

WHat do you make of these answers mate?

[Mobi]

WHat do you make of these answers mate?

From one probable Alkie to another, you certainly have a major problem - but of course you know that very well.

I scored much better than you, but that is partly because I am no longer working, so many of the questions are not relevant. I only very rarely had any memory losses, I honestly don't think it affected my career (after I learnt how to deal with in such a way that I made sure that it didn't), I never had specific treatment for it etc etc.

Even so, I had to say yes to four or so - so I reckon I'm border line.

It certainly seems as though you need to get out of that place - if for no other reason than you need to be somewhere where you can get proper support and treatment.

A couple of minor, maybe stupid suggestions - but they have helped with me.

Firstly, I always have trouble sleeping when drinking. I usually sleep quite quickly, but wake up after an hour or so, and thereafter, sleep very fitfully. I found that the occasional use of non- addictive sleeping pills gives me a really good, non-alcoholic night's sleep, and I wake up feeling really refreshed and well. I'm talking once a week - no more. The experts would probably say this is bad advice, but it certainly was good for me. (During my 4 months on the waggon, I did nothing but sleep - hours and hours - it was quite remarkeable.)

Secondly, I don't know if you are an animal lover, or if it is even possible to do this where you are, but last January I got a Golden retriever puupy, and I have to say that the bonding I made with my dog helped me through those 4 months, and she was a great comfort to me. The dog is so intelligent and adoring that it made me feel I wasn't all alone in this.

Just a couple of ideas.

Anyone else got any?

[Mobi]

WHat do you make of these answers mate?

From one probable Alkie to another, you certainly have a major problem - but of course you know that very well.

I scored much better than you, but that is partly because I am no longer working, so many of the questions are not relevant. I only very rarely had any memory losses, I honestly don't think it affected my career (after I learnt how to deal with in such a way that I made sure that it didn't), I never had specific treatment for it etc etc.

Even so, I had to say yes to four or so - so I reckon I'm border line.

It certainly seems as though you need to get out of that place - if for no other reason than you need to be somewhere where you can get proper support and treatment.

A couple of minor, maybe stupid suggestions - but they have helped with me.

Firstly, I always have trouble sleeping when drinking. I usually sleep quite quickly, but wake up after an hour or so, and thereafter, sleep very fitfully. I found that the occasional use of non- addictive sleeping pills gives me a really good, non-alcoholic night's sleep, and I wake up feeling really refreshed and well. I'm talking once a week - no more. The experts would probably say this is bad advice, but it certainly was good for me. (During my 4 months on the waggon, I did nothing but sleep - hours and hours - it was quite remarkeable.)

Secondly, I don't know if you are an animal lover, or if it is even possible to do this where you are, but last January I got a Golden retriever puupy, and I have to say that the bonding I made with my dog helped me through those 4 months, and she was a great comfort to me. The dog is so intelligent and adoring that it made me feel I wasn't all alone in this.

Just a couple of ideas.

Anyone else got any?

[Chang_paarp]

The child substitue warks well.

Exercise and sex both good for sleep. Just check with a doctor what could be considered safe if you have fitness concerns.

Moderation in all things except sex.

[jamman]

I was alcoholic the last three years. Used to drink 3/4 bottles of Sangsom every night, and really enjoyed it. After a while I started to notice my mind getting generally sloppy. Once at a bar there was this beautiful girl I was flirting with, and there was this beer in my hand. I was slowly getting pissed, and came to that threshold where I knew it was either going to be the beer or her - I couldn't drink much more without sliding downhill and lowering my chances with her. I chose the beer, and gave her a sloppy drunk goodnight at her door, no invitation in.

On the other hand, I met a girl at a disco while totally pissed, and stayed with her for a year. I'd never have had the confidence to flirt so recklessly with her if not so drunk. It's not black and white, that's for sure! Booze can be great.

They say that regular drinking causes many brain changes. I started to have greater personality changes after drinking. I'd be more volatile, and if I got seriously drunk I'd forget what happened the next day. On a few occasions I flirted with other girls, right in front of my girlfriend. The day after a big night drinking I'd be much more prone to being argumentative. It was really hurting my relationship. I'd go on the wagon for a few days, then try to drink moderately for fun 3 nights a week, and then I'd be back to my daily limit of one small bottle of rum (not that bad, I thought), and then somehow I'd occasionally pass that limit too much and be an ass again.

It used to be that my behavior didn't change much, and I never had blackouts, and I used to be able to moderate or stop my drinking if I wanted. But after the three years of steady and often heavy drinking, it was as if my brain had changed, and in fact it had. I tried and tried and was having a real problem with moderation. I've been drinking regularly since 11 years old, and spent many years drinking daily and nightly, but the last three were heavier. But whenever some negative drink induced incident caused concern, I could easily take a month off, or a year off. I couldn't do that anymore.

I started to get the shakes - my hands weren't steady any more. My forehead and nose became numb. I had gotten an ulcer and it made me anaemic. I was forced, for health reasons, to stop drinking. If I drank I'd be totally wiped out and breathless the next day. So I stopped for 3 months, with every intention of hitting the bottle and becoming alcoholic again as soon as my health would allow.

My health did get better, and I did start to drink again. I would tell people I met at bars that I am an alcoholic - that I need alcohol just to feel normal. That a part of who I am just can't express itself without alcohol in me. That I need it to be who I am, and to properly express myself and enjoy life. That I had serious problems with moderation.

Since January I decided I really had to make a change. I read up as much as I could on alcoholism on the net, especially articles about alcohol related brain changes. And life expectency changes. If you want some motivation to limit drinking, read up on that. I managed to go about 6 weeks sober, which was quite something. Then of course I began moderate drinking, which lead to daily drinking. I tried again to keep it to one little bottle a night, but regularly didn't. Nowadays my companions don't prefer me drunk - they don't' like me drunk. I put it down to the brain changes - I'm not a young man with a fresh brain anymore - now I have an alcoholics brain, and if I drink, it changes my behavior more, sometimes negatively. The booze was again interfering a bit with a steady relationship, and when she was away on a long trip, also with new dates. They just find me less attractive drunk, but ###### em, I'd think.

My health failed again because of a yeast overgrowth, lately. I've been sober for over a month now, and the two months before that I was a moderate occasional drinker and didn't binge. Overall, for the last six months, I have mostly not been alcoholic. I had maybe one or two months in there were I was. I don't know if I can ever safely drink in moderation again, but I do see that I now have things under control. I really like drinking, and if it weren't for the brain and body deterioration, I'd still chose to keep some drinking in my life, but this alcoholism thing sucks.

Taking a full month off from time to time helps, I'm sure. Lets some of the amygdala and other parts of the brain restore some chemical balances. For a while last year I'd smoke pot instead of drinking on some nights, and that stopped the cravings while still being entertaining.

So as of now my plan is to try moderation again, once I kick this candida overgrowth. I just don't feel like an alcoholic anymore. I see how I'm generally less of an interesting person wasted, or at least less adept with the finer social nuances; a bit more of an ass. I see how my health suffers, how I can't keep it up if I tried - not forever. And I see that if I'm sober for extended periods of time, the cravings go away, and much that I could before only do drunk I can also do sober. I haven't much missed the booze this last month.

I know it's a risk for me to try moderation instead of abstinence. I do know that I don't want to be alcoholic anymore, and that I can be in control of it, still. I want to keep it that way.

Ya, moderation in everything except for sex. That sounds about right.

[BalthazarBeefheart]

I was alcoholic the last three years. Used to drink 3/4 bottles of Sangsom every night, and really enjoyed it. After a while I started to notice my mind getting generally sloppy. Once at a bar there was this beautiful girl I was flirting with, and there was this beer in my hand. I was slowly getting pissed, and came to that threshold where I knew it was either going to be the beer or her - I couldn't drink much more without sliding downhill and lowering my chances with her. I chose the beer, and gave her a sloppy drunk goodnight at her door, no invitation in.

On the other hand, I met a girl at a disco while totally pissed, and stayed with her for a year. I'd never have had the confidence to flirt so recklessly with her if not so drunk. It's not black and white, that's for sure! Booze can be great.

They say that regular drinking causes many brain changes. I started to have greater personality changes after drinking. I'd be more volatile, and if I got seriously drunk I'd forget what happened the next day. On a few occasions I flirted with other girls, right in front of my girlfriend. The day after a big night drinking I'd be much more prone to being argumentative. It was really hurting my relationship. I'd go on the wagon for a few days, then try to drink moderately for fun 3 nights a week, and then I'd be back to my daily limit of one small bottle of rum (not that bad, I thought), and then somehow I'd occasionally pass that limit too much and be an ass again.

It used to be that my behavior didn't change much, and I never had blackouts, and I used to be able to moderate or stop my drinking if I wanted. But after the three years of steady and often heavy drinking, it was as if my brain had changed, and in fact it had. I tried and tried and was having a real problem with moderation. I've been drinking regularly since 11 years old, and spent many years drinking daily and nightly, but the last three were heavier. But whenever some negative drink induced incident caused concern, I could easily take a month off, or a year off. I couldn't do that anymore.

I started to get the shakes - my hands weren't steady any more. My forehead and nose became numb. I had gotten an ulcer and it made me anaemic. I was forced, for health reasons, to stop drinking. If I drank I'd be totally wiped out and breathless the next day. So I stopped for 3 months, with every intention of hitting the bottle and becoming alcoholic again as soon as my health would allow.

My health did get better, and I did start to drink again. I would tell people I met at bars that I am an alcoholic - that I need alcohol just to feel normal. That a part of who I am just can't express itself without alcohol in me. That I need it to be who I am, and to properly express myself and enjoy life. That I had serious problems with moderation.

Since January I decided I really had to make a change. I read up as much as I could on alcoholism on the net, especially articles about alcohol related brain changes. And life expectency changes. If you want some motivation to limit drinking, read up on that. I managed to go about 6 weeks sober, which was quite something. Then of course I began moderate drinking, which lead to daily drinking. I tried again to keep it to one little bottle a night, but regularly didn't. Nowadays my companions don't prefer me drunk - they don't' like me drunk. I put it down to the brain changes - I'm not a young man with a fresh brain anymore - now I have an alcoholics brain, and if I drink, it changes my behavior more, sometimes negatively. The booze was again interfering a bit with a steady relationship, and when she was away on a long trip, also with new dates. They just find me less attractive drunk, but ###### em, I'd think.

My health failed again because of a yeast overgrowth, lately. I've been sober for over a month now, and the two months before that I was a moderate occasional drinker and didn't binge. Overall, for the last six months, I have mostly not been alcoholic. I had maybe one or two months in there were I was. I don't know if I can ever safely drink in moderation again, but I do see that I now have things under control. I really like drinking, and if it weren't for the brain and body deterioration, I'd still chose to keep some drinking in my life, but this alcoholism thing sucks.

Taking a full month off from time to time helps, I'm sure. Lets some of the amygdala and other parts of the brain restore some chemical balances. For a while last year I'd smoke pot instead of drinking on some nights, and that stopped the cravings while still being entertaining.

So as of now my plan is to try moderation again, once I kick this candida overgrowth. I just don't feel like an alcoholic anymore. I see how I'm generally less of an interesting person wasted, or at least less adept with the finer social nuances; a bit more of an ass. I see how my health suffers, how I can't keep it up if I tried - not forever. And I see that if I'm sober for extended periods of time, the cravings go away, and much that I could before only do drunk I can also do sober. I haven't much missed the booze this last month.

I know it's a risk for me to try moderation instead of abstinence. I do know that I don't want to be alcoholic anymore, and that I can be in control of it, still. I want to keep it that way.

Ya, moderation in everything except for sex. That sounds about right.

Thank you for sharing your experiences - I can relate to a lot of them. I myself have drank for many years as a means of boosting my confidence - when I look back I realise what a waste of time that is - it just becomes a vicious circle. What is obvious now is the problem lies with my own self-esteem and acceptance and whilst alcohol has a profound inhibitory effect it is only temporary.

I am very lucky in that my drinking was always done in pubs I very rarely drank at home - it makes stopping that much easier - I just stay out of pubs. However one misses the camaraderie and friends won't wish to meet for a coffee when for years you've just met for beers. People who don't have a problem will be only keen to offer advice and use words like will-power and discipline. The fact is no-one really understands the workings of the brain and addictions - what one must remember is we are all individuals and we have to work out the best plan for our own needs by listening to others with similar problems and taking up ideas that will suit.

Personally abstinence is the safest option for me but not enjoyable so I have to make my own plan for enjoying alcohol. I don't say moderation because I don't like the sound of that - I would say risk-limitation would be of the essence - eg rules like always eat before and during a session. I suppose it is a case of re-learning very old behaviours - not easy believe me.

[soic]

For me, I guess I was lucky, in a way. I went through my alkie and drug days early. When I was 19, my father was murdered by his wife (not my mother). I had a lot of responsibility dumped in my lap overnight. The disposition of my 16 year old sister, the property, my grand mother's home that he was trustee over, funeral, trial, a whole plethora of stuff that I could never of imagined. Anyway, I was able to hold things together until after the trial, my sister went to our mother's and the witch got her 10 years and 7 years suspended sentence. After all was said and done... I went off the deep end, I started drinking and popping pills, smoking everything I could get my hands on and basically partying from 11am until 6am the next morning... everyday, all day, all night. Prior to all that I was a health nut and body builder, not pro but dedicated. I stayed drunk, stoned, drugged and lost for a few months. I eventually lost too much weight, couldn't eat, couldn't think, I couldn't really do much of anything except pop pills, smoke and drink. My Mother and Step-Father stopped by my house for a visit. I was actually for once semi coherent, they said that they were worried and I was of course "fine, fine, fine!", My Mother asked me what my name was..... I was completely lost... I didn't even know my own name, I was also throwing up blood, and pissing blood, I went from a muscle bound 42" shoulders and 32" waist to size 28" waist and skin and bones. They cried and begged for me to go home with them just for a few days. I went and then when I finally realized what I had done to myself, I became scared to death. I stayed for two weeks. I couldn't remember hardly anything about the previous 3 months. The Police and Sheriffs departments knew, my father worked for the city and they cut me a lot of slack, more than I deserved. After that, I was scared to death of drugs and booze.

To this day, if I start to drink too much or enjoy anything too much, I get paranoid. When I worked in Hungary for a while, I started enjoying booze a little too much for my own good. Finally, I went to all the bars that I frequented and talked to all of the waitress and bartenders that I knew, while I was still lucid. I told them all to serve me two beers, or one drink and one beer and after that, start bringing me cokes. I told them to do that no matter how much I protested. They were good friends and they did just that. I never had to worry about my strenght after that. I didn't go to new clubs, I didn't trust myself. I have that arrangement with my wife... if she sees me getting any kind of buzz, she switches me to cola. I realize that isn't a cure for everybody, but it did and does work for me.