CON-MAN in Kanchanaburi

[Checkmate842]

My Thai wife and I bought land from an Englishman and his Thai wife who had built a village and were about to commence another next door. It was 54sq wah at a highly inflated price (540,000baht) but I was only new to Thailand and trusted him as he passed himself off as a War veteran and an English Lord stating that he would look after me as I was a fellow veteran.

Once I paid the money he stated that it would cost 70,000baht (excluding taxes) for his wife to transfer the Nor Sor 3 Gor to my wifes name, I had no alternative as he would not have his wife sign it over if I did not pay and our house was near completion, he stated that this was a company service/admin charge, yet the company he stated had a domain name and website but was not a registered Thai company.

After doing some investigations on him and finding out that he was not a war veteran (after he wore a Thai School teachers uniform with 4 British medals to an Anzac Day ceremony) I found that he had fleeced other expats as well. When he knew I was on to him he had my request for electricity from the Electric Company blocked stating to them that the wires would pass over their property and they disagreed with that and my alternative of running it in a tube on top of the wall where he has his run for his old house converted to a hotel was also out.

The only choice I had left with my house completed and ready to move in was to get electricity from the village next door where I lived previously. Our block is the third block down from the Soi and his gate to the property. This could all change when he returns from England in July and with the access road from the Soi to my house being their property I may be locked out.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Rooo
Spacing for ease of reading.

[Rooo]

Have you checked if you have your property recorded for access on the private road title? Not that easy to block you once he sold you a property with access,

Moving to real estate forum for more specialised input.

[monkey4u]

While he is away his house might have an electrical fault and burn down

Just a thought

[KittenKong]

Beats me why anyone would even think about buying land here. It all seems to be just endless scams and lies and deceit, with no clear planning laws protecting the innocent or penalising the dishonest. Not to mention that as a farang you cant even own it in your own name anyway.

As for buying from an "English Lord", I wouldn't trust anyone in Thailand who purports to be one of those. I wouldnt trust war veterans, ex-SAS members, ex-CIA agents, lawyers, "businessmen" and "advisers" and "agents" etc here either. I fact I think the best plan when it comes to money here is just not to trust anyone at all.

[shirtless]

I like the idea of the electrical fault , scammers are a blight on modern day society.

[JeremyBowskill]

So you bought some over priced land, didn't read the print and had to pay an extra 70k which was most likely in the contract. Not really a scam as such, as you got the land you paid for. More a case of not exercising due diligence, which is a no no anywhere in the world, is it not?

[CNXBKKMAN]

"he passed himself off as a veteran and an English lord..." I wouldnt give any money to anyone who said they were an English lord, in Thailand or the UK! This is the point were you tell them to "do one" .

[tx22cb]

I assume your Thai wife is from Kanchanaburi (and hence why you are settling there).

If so, get the wife/her family to engage a lawyer and get him to go over the paperwork, and he will quickly tell you whether you have a leg to s on.

Don't always follow what TVF posters say (arson) - and His Lordship may well be a fellow TVF member!

[Checkmate842]

There was no contract just a verbal and I kept all receipts. Nothing said about a fee for transfering the Nor Sor 3 Gor until after all the money had changed hands and receipts signed and with the house nearly completed. There was no fine print except in the back of his mind.

There are many more that have been done by this guy and the Tourist Police and Public Prosecutor are very interested in his dealings and will be wanting to see him on his return. We are thinking of a Class Action.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Checkmate842

[JeremyBowskill]

Even worse then, no contract no leg to stand on. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. If he has no registered company or work permit, you could rat him out to immigration but in my book that would make you worse than him.

Edited June 24, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[ldnguy]

So you bought land that you knew to be overpriced, paid in cash and didn't both with a contract. Added to that, you didn't even both to check if you had legal access to the property. It should go without saying that anyone that conducts business like this is asking for trouble. But it doesn't appear that he's done anything wrong. You agreed to pay the price for the land, you agreed to the extra fee, and it sounds like he didn't promise access to the property, as you didn't mention that he did. So how is he a con man? What exactly has he done wrong? He has given you what you paid for.

[BookMan]

So you bought land that you knew to be overpriced, paid in cash and didn't both with a contract. Added to that, you didn't even both to check if you had legal access to the property. It should go without saying that anyone that conducts business like this is asking for trouble. But it doesn't appear that he's done anything wrong. You agreed to pay the price for the land, you agreed to the extra fee, and it sounds like he didn't promise access to the property, as you didn't mention that he did. So how is he a con man? What exactly has he done wrong? He has given you what you paid for.

Passing himself off for a war veteran, if he is not, is clearly a con man, yes?

[JeremyBowskill]

So you bought land that you knew to be overpriced, paid in cash and didn't both with a contract. Added to that, you didn't even both to check if you had legal access to the property. It should go without saying that anyone that conducts business like this is asking for trouble. But it doesn't appear that he's done anything wrong. You agreed to pay the price for the land, you agreed to the extra fee, and it sounds like he didn't promise access to the property, as you didn't mention that he did. So how is he a con man? What exactly has he done wrong? He has given you what you paid for.

Passing himself off for a war veteran, if he is not, is clearly a con man, yes?

Medals and history may be genuine but uniform not. Pretty hard to get hold of a British uniform here I imagine.

Just playing devils advocate.

[ldnguy]

So you bought land that you knew to be overpriced, paid in cash and didn't both with a contract. Added to that, you didn't even both to check if you had legal access to the property. It should go without saying that anyone that conducts business like this is asking for trouble. But it doesn't appear that he's done anything wrong. You agreed to pay the price for the land, you agreed to the extra fee, and it sounds like he didn't promise access to the property, as you didn't mention that he did. So how is he a con man? What exactly has he done wrong? He has given you what you paid for.

Passing himself off for a war veteran, if he is not, is clearly a con man, yes?

That's debatable. I don't think making up some interesting story about yourself i conning anyone. It would be different if you claimed to be a doctor and then treated someone when in fact you weren't one. But this guy bought some land, so whether the guy was a war veteran or not is irrelevant. I know men that claim to be pilots and other things when chatting women up in bars. It gets them laid, but are they really conning them? If I sell you land, why is the fact that I am a war veteran relevant or not? Land is land. If I bought apples from Tesco Lotus and the cashier claimed to be a war veteran, is she a con woman that cheated me into buy apples? Of course not. Totally irrelevant. The seller hasn't committed any crime. He asked a certain prices for land, the buyer agreed. What's wrong with that? There is no con here. Just a buyer who didn't check the facts of what he was getting, and assumed he was getting things that he didn't get. It's not the sellers fault that the buyer made some wrong assumptions.

[BookMan]

So you bought land that you knew to be overpriced, paid in cash and didn't both with a contract. Added to that, you didn't even both to check if you had legal access to the property. It should go without saying that anyone that conducts business like this is asking for trouble. But it doesn't appear that he's done anything wrong. You agreed to pay the price for the land, you agreed to the extra fee, and it sounds like he didn't promise access to the property, as you didn't mention that he did. So how is he a con man? What exactly has he done wrong? He has given you what you paid for.

Passing himself off for a war veteran, if he is not, is clearly a con man, yes?

Medals and history may be genuine but uniform not. Pretty hard to get hold of a British uniform here I imagine.

Just playing devils advocate.

Sure, but I don't think that was the OPs issue (the uniform). He said he did some research and found out Lord XXXX was not a veteran.

Replica medals (or even genuine war service medals) are cheap enough to buy.

[BookMan]

So you bought land that you knew to be overpriced, paid in cash and didn't both with a contract. Added to that, you didn't even both to check if you had legal access to the property. It should go without saying that anyone that conducts business like this is asking for trouble. But it doesn't appear that he's done anything wrong. You agreed to pay the price for the land, you agreed to the extra fee, and it sounds like he didn't promise access to the property, as you didn't mention that he did. So how is he a con man? What exactly has he done wrong? He has given you what you paid for.

Passing himself off for a war veteran, if he is not, is clearly a con man, yes?

That's debatable. I don't think making up some interesting story about yourself i conning anyone. It would be different if you claimed to be a doctor and then treated someone when in fact you weren't one. But this guy bought some land, so whether the guy was a war veteran or not is irrelevant. I know men that claim to be pilots and other things when chatting women up in bars. It gets them laid, but are they really conning them? If I sell you land, why is the fact that I am a war veteran relevant or not? Land is land. If I bought apples from Tesco Lotus and the cashier claimed to be a war veteran, is she a con woman that cheated me into buy apples? Of course not. Totally irrelevant. The seller hasn't committed any crime. He asked a certain prices for land, the buyer agreed. What's wrong with that? There is no con here. Just a buyer who didn't check the facts of what he was getting, and assumed he was getting things that he didn't get. It's not the sellers fault that the buyer made some wrong assumptions.

Debatable?

If someone passes themselves off as a veteran when they are not then they are a Fraud. If they then use that veteran persona to help facilitate business they are then a con man. The Veteran status is their prop.

In this circumstance the OP has stated the fact that Lord XXXX passed himself off as a veteran helped the OP (himself a veteran) feel more comfortable.

Why is it so hard for some people just to accept facts?

[ldnguy]

Also, it seems that the seller is old. Some old people lose the plot and think they are lords when they are not. Perhaps the seller genuinely thinks he's a lord and war veteran. Or maybe he has a really boring life and wants to make himself seem more interesting. Sad maybe, but not a con. As far as I can tell from the OP, he has his land/property, and has access to it. He also has electricity. Case closed.

[ttthailand]

Even worse then, no contract no leg to stand on. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. If he has no registered company or work permit, you could rat him out to immigration but in my book that would make you worse than him.

Any way to take these lowlifes down is acceptable in my book. Police, immigration, local gang..... Fight fire with fire, what ever it takes !!!

[Checkmate842]

You are correct, I checked up as I am still a serving member and found that he had no War Service and by wearing medals he purchased on Ebay at an Anzac Day ceremony claiming to be a veteran is an offence in the UK, Australia and the USA. He used the fact that I was a veteran to befriend me as a new person to Thailand and state that he would help me. I did not know the price of land and trusted him as a friend. Yes that was my mistake and yes I have paid the price, but I would not like anyone else to fall into the same trap that I have and many before me. If only someone else that had the same dealings with him had spoken up, I may not have been conned. He also says he has a Thai Company and signs documents as Chairman, Thailand Properties Group, whish does not exist. He did have a domain name and website but that has now gone. I only checked after I heard from others that had dealings with him.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Checkmate842

[krisb]

I'd go around there and park my truck on his head.

He deserves it.

[ldnguy]

So you bought land that you knew to be overpriced, paid in cash and didn't both with a contract. Added to that, you didn't even both to check if you had legal access to the property. It should go without saying that anyone that conducts business like this is asking for trouble. But it doesn't appear that he's done anything wrong. You agreed to pay the price for the land, you agreed to the extra fee, and it sounds like he didn't promise access to the property, as you didn't mention that he did. So how is he a con man? What exactly has he done wrong? He has given you what you paid for.

Passing himself off for a war veteran, if he is not, is clearly a con man, yes?

That's debatable. I don't think making up some interesting story about yourself i conning anyone. It would be different if you claimed to be a doctor and then treated someone when in fact you weren't one. But this guy bought some land, so whether the guy was a war veteran or not is irrelevant. I know men that claim to be pilots and other things when chatting women up in bars. It gets them laid, but are they really conning them? If I sell you land, why is the fact that I am a war veteran relevant or not? Land is land. If I bought apples from Tesco Lotus and the cashier claimed to be a war veteran, is she a con woman that cheated me into buy apples? Of course not. Totally irrelevant. The seller hasn't committed any crime. He asked a certain prices for land, the buyer agreed. What's wrong with that? There is no con here. Just a buyer who didn't check the facts of what he was getting, and assumed he was getting things that he didn't get. It's not the sellers fault that the buyer made some wrong assumptions.

Debatable?

If someone passes themselves off as a veteran when they are not then they are a Fraud. If they then use that veteran persona to help facilitate business they are then a con man. The Veteran status is their prop.

In this circumstance the OP has stated the fact that Lord XXXX passed himself off as a veteran helped the OP (himself a veteran) feel more comfortable.

Why is it so hard for some people just to accept facts?

What you say is true, but you are making some assumptions that may not be true. How do you know he mentioned the war veteran status in order to facilitate the sale? Maybe he mentioned it in passing and had nothing to do with the sale. The OP also said others had been 'fleeced' by this person, but didn't provide any more information or evidence. What does he mean by fleeced? That he paid more for the land than he though it was worth. Many would argue that most property sold in UK is overvalued and so buyers are being fleeced every day. The buyer wanted land and bought it. If the buyer wanted to feel comfortable, then he would have got a lawyer and contract. I find it hard to believe that the buyer bought just because the seller claimed to be a war veteran. It sounds to me like the buyer paid too much and now regrets it, so he's looking for excuses. But the fact is that he agreed to pay the price.

Would the buyer have refused to buy if the seller claimed he was a retired cashier? I just don't see the relevance of who someone is when buying land. I have never checked to see if sellers of property I've bought said the truth about their profession. Why would I? I agreed the price and bought the property.

You seem to be suggesting that war veterans and lords are more trustworthy than the general population. I don't think they are. So I don't see how that is relevant.

[jonclark]

The solution to this is simple.

Rent your new house and land out for 6 months for absolute peanuts to a group of male technical college students, preferably ones who enjoy a good motorbike race on a Friday and Saturday night - plenty of tats is always a good option. - They are a 'in nightmare to live next too - within a few months your English lord will have upped sticks and left, or be at his wits end and want them gone.

If the 'lord' has gone proceed to option a) if not go to option b.

a) Keep their rent tucked away in a bank account for the six months - don't spend it. At the end of the rental period offer then the rent in return for getting out quickly. They will take it super quick with many appreciative wais and smiles - thinking you are crazy??

b. Offer the land for sale back to the English lord at an inflated price, if he disagrees continue to rent to aforementioned students he will continue to live a miserable life. If he agrees go to option a (at the correct time - once he's signed the papers and transferred the cash.)

The worse the people renting the property the worse his life will be.

Edited June 24, 2014 by jonclark

[JeremyBowskill]

The solution to this is simple.

Rent your new house and land out for 6 months for absolute peanuts to a group of male technical college students, preferably ones who enjoy a good motorbike race on a Friday and Saturday night - plenty of tats is always a good option. - They are a 'in nightmare to live next too - within a few months your English lord will have upped sticks and left, or be at his wits end and want them gone.

If the 'lord' has gone proceed to option a) if not go to option b.

a) Keep their rent tucked away in a bank account for the six months - don't spend it. At the end of the rental period offer then the rent in return for getting out quickly. They will take it super quick with many appreciative wais and smiles - thinking you are crazy??

b. Offer the land for sale back to the English lord at an inflated price, if he disagrees continue to rent to aforementioned students he will continue to live a miserable life. If he agrees go to option a (at the correct time - once he's signed the papers and transferred the cash.)

The worse the people renting the property the worse his life will be.

Yup great idea, have a bunch of idiots wrecking your property and making it even more worthless. Just about the dumbest suggestion yet!

Alternatively, move in, move on and live happily ever after.

Edited June 24, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[JeremyBowskill]

So you bought land that you knew to be overpriced, paid in cash and didn't both with a contract. Added to that, you didn't even both to check if you had legal access to the property. It should go without saying that anyone that conducts business like this is asking for trouble. But it doesn't appear that he's done anything wrong. You agreed to pay the price for the land, you agreed to the extra fee, and it sounds like he didn't promise access to the property, as you didn't mention that he did. So how is he a con man? What exactly has he done wrong? He has given you what you paid for.

Passing himself off for a war veteran, if he is not, is clearly a con man, yes?

Medals and history may be genuine but uniform not. Pretty hard to get hold of a British uniform here I imagine.

Just playing devils advocate.

Sure, but I don't think that was the OPs issue (the uniform). He said he did some research and found out Lord XXXX was not a veteran.

Replica medals (or even genuine war service medals) are cheap enough to buy.

Either way I would be surprised if it was a crime that could be proved or anything done about in Thailand.

[Bernard Flint]

Beats me why anyone would even think about buying land here. It all seems to be just endless scams and lies and deceit, with no clear planning laws protecting the innocent or penalising the dishonest. Not to mention that as a farang you cant even own it in your own name anyway.

As for buying from an "English Lord", I wouldn't trust anyone in Thailand who purports to be one of those. I wouldnt trust war veterans, ex-SAS members, ex-CIA agents, lawyers, "businessmen" and "advisers" and "agents" etc here either. I fact I think the best plan when it comes to money here is just not to trust anyone at all.

Or even spanish real estate

[jonclark]

The solution to this is simple.

Rent your new house and land out for 6 months for absolute peanuts to a group of male technical college students, preferably ones who enjoy a good motorbike race on a Friday and Saturday night - plenty of tats is always a good option. - They are a 'in nightmare to live next too - within a few months your English lord will have upped sticks and left, or be at his wits end and want them gone.

If the 'lord' has gone proceed to option a) if not go to option b.

a) Keep their rent tucked away in a bank account for the six months - don't spend it. At the end of the rental period offer then the rent in return for getting out quickly. They will take it super quick with many appreciative wais and smiles - thinking you are crazy??

b. Offer the land for sale back to the English lord at an inflated price, if he disagrees continue to rent to aforementioned students he will continue to live a miserable life. If he agrees go to option a (at the correct time - once he's signed the papers and transferred the cash.)

The worse the people renting the property the worse his life will be.

Yup great idea, have a bunch of idiots wrecking your property and making it even more worthless. Just about the dumbest suggestion yet!

Alternatively, move in, move on and live happily ever after.

Problem is he may not be able to move in if access to the property is gated and controlled by the lord.

[JeremyBowskill]

The solution to this is simple.

Rent your new house and land out for 6 months for absolute peanuts to a group of male technical college students, preferably ones who enjoy a good motorbike race on a Friday and Saturday night - plenty of tats is always a good option. - They are a 'in nightmare to live next too - within a few months your English lord will have upped sticks and left, or be at his wits end and want them gone.

If the 'lord' has gone proceed to option a) if not go to option b.

a) Keep their rent tucked away in a bank account for the six months - don't spend it. At the end of the rental period offer then the rent in return for getting out quickly. They will take it super quick with many appreciative wais and smiles - thinking you are crazy??

b. Offer the land for sale back to the English lord at an inflated price, if he disagrees continue to rent to aforementioned students he will continue to live a miserable life. If he agrees go to option a (at the correct time - once he's signed the papers and transferred the cash.)

The worse the people renting the property the worse his life will be.

Yup great idea, have a bunch of idiots wrecking your property and making it even more worthless. Just about the dumbest suggestion yet!

Alternatively, move in, move on and live happily ever after.

Problem is he may not be able to move in if access to the property is gated and controlled by the lord.

This guy has built a moo baan where he is the gatekeeper? Somehow I doubt it, sounds like paranoia (which may be understandable) or straight up trolling. How many developments have gates owned by the landlord that are not open to all? I sure have never heard of 1 in 11 years.

Incidentally, how would your tech collage, tattoo'd hells angels get in if that were the case?

Edited June 24, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[BookMan]

What you say is true, but you are making some assumptions that may not be true. How do you know he mentioned the war veteran status in order to facilitate the sale? Maybe he mentioned it in passing and had nothing to do with the sale...

How do I know he mentioned veteran status? A simple read of the Op will provide you with this from the OP. (my bolding).

"...but I was only new to Thailand and trusted him as he passed himself off as a War veteran and an English Lord stating that he would look after me as I was a fellow veteran."

...You seem to be suggesting that war veterans and lords are more trustworthy than the general population. I don't think they are. So I don't see how that is relevant. ...

Acting as a veteran is a ruse often used by conmen as a method of gaining the trust of their target especially when their target is a veteran. A veteran creates a certain image in the minds of people, usually engendering trust and respect, more so when the veteran is older.

[BookMan]

Either way I would be surprised if it was a crime that could be proved or anything done about in Thailand.

You are probably right.

[ldnguy]

Beats me why anyone would even think about buying land here. It all seems to be just endless scams and lies and deceit, with no clear planning laws protecting the innocent or penalising the dishonest. Not to mention that as a farang you cant even own it in your own name anyway.

As for buying from an "English Lord", I wouldn't trust anyone in Thailand who purports to be one of those. I wouldnt trust war veterans, ex-SAS members, ex-CIA agents, lawyers, "businessmen" and "advisers" and "agents" etc here either. I fact I think the best plan when it comes to money here is just not to trust anyone at all.

Where would the 70 million Thai people live if they didn't buy land and property? My GFs family have bought and sold lots of land over the years and never been scammed. There are clear planning laws here and laws to protect buyers and sellers. The vast majority follow the buying and selling laws for land and property. It's all very clear.

The OP bought for his Thai wife, so is in a Thai's name. No scam at all. Land bought and transferred into her name. What can be clearer than that. She hasn't been scammed at all. She has got the land she wanted registered in her name. That's how it works all over the world.