Non-native

[Oliver Larson]

Greetings everyone.

I am thinking of teaching English in Thailand next year, and simply wonder what chances I have landing a job as I am Swedish.

When applying I will have a Masters (including some English) and a TEFL-certificate.

I have friends in England with whom I spend a lot of time, and my pronounciation is good.

The obvious downside is that I have no teaching experience.

Would it be possible for me to obtain employment on these premises, and if so, is it possible to estimate how much I could earn?

I do believe that living on less than 25,000 Baht/month would present quite a task to me,

with student loans to be payed back, hence the last question.

Any information and/or experience that you may have is most appreciated.

Best Regards,

Oliver

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, if you have a White face and speak relatively unaccented English, you'll get a job paying over 25,000 baht a month, especially in Bangkok.

It would be better to take a TEFL course. At the top of this forum is a "Qualifications" thread that you should read.

Other things being equal, a native speaker with the same credentials would beat you out. However, some employers say it's almost impossible to get a sentient non-drugged applicant in interviews nowadays, so they're very desperate. If you do the normal things for your interview, like dress well and speak well and act non-moronic, you'll probably get hired.

Good luck.

[mbkudu]

Yes, if you have a White face and speak relatively unaccented English, you'll get a job paying over 25,000 baht a month, especially in Bangkok.

It would be better to take a TEFL course. At the top of this forum is a "Qualifications" thread that you should read.

Other things being equal, a native speaker with the same credentials would beat you out. However, some employers say it's almost impossible to get a sentient non-drugged applicant in interviews nowadays, so they're very desperate. If you do the normal things for your interview, like dress well and speak well and act non-moronic, you'll probably get hired.

Good luck.

Ah, come on. It's not that bad, is it? I'd think that with a master's and a TEFL certificate he could probably land a good job at a university. There are a few non-native English speaking teachers (their English is impeccable though) at my university teaching subjects like business, sociology, literature, math, statistics ect. Their nationalities are German, Agentinian,

Swiss and a few others.

Edited June 24, 2006 by mbkudu

[kenkannif]

You'll be fine mate, fine!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

mbkudu, maybe hiring conditions in BKK are that bad, indeed. According to Bangkok Phil's informants, even some apparently decent employers in Bangkok, offering 50K with benefits, are having nobody show up at the interviews except a few drunks, sexpats with bargirls holding their hands, drug tourists, overly hirsute and heavily tatooed giants with bad breath, and native speakers who can't string together one sentence that resembles the English language. All over Thailand, schools are hiring boatloads of filipinos at discount salaries. Most schools refuse to pay over 30K, and knowledgeable experienced TEFLers aren't going to work for those wages. The solution for many employers is to pay 20K to the filipinas, who are more diligent than many of the native speakers who are available at 28K.

[mbkudu]

mbkudu, maybe hiring conditions in BKK are that bad, indeed. According to Bangkok Phil's informants, even some apparently decent employers in Bangkok, offering 50K with benefits, are having nobody show up at the interviews except a few drunks, sexpats with bargirls holding their hands, drug tourists, overly hirsute and heavily tatooed giants with bad breath, and native speakers who can't string together one sentence that resembles the English language. All over Thailand, schools are hiring boatloads of filipinos at discount salaries. Most schools refuse to pay over 30K, and knowledgeable experienced TEFLers aren't going to work for those wages. The solution for many employers is to pay 20K to the filipinas, who are more diligent than many of the native speakers who are available at 28K.

PeaceBlondie, your post really exemplifies the irony of this industry in Thailand, doesn't it?

Schools desparate to hire and offering 50,000 baht per month, but can't find a decent candidate and

at the same time most schools refusing to pay over 30,000 baht per month. Well, if the state of Farang teacher prospects really is that bad, then I can understand why more schools are hiring more Philipinos. They are well dressed, most have degrees, their accents not too bad and have a good grasp of English grammar. Maybe it's just a matter of time before Thais start to accept them more. A lot of native speakers who teach English here use it as a stepping stone to other things anyway. They will teach a few years until they get that connection to something better. Maybe this is why many employers are unwilling to invest good money in teacher salaries because they know they are going to move on anyway. I really don't have an answer. After I finish my degree I am seriously thinking of teaching in the Middle East for a few years because of the money and benefits being offered there. Maybe by then things will have cooled off a bit politically and I could feel a bit safer than I would if I was there now . As the old saying goes, "Love it or leave it." I hate that saying.

[Oliver Larson]

Thank you for your answers.

By the look of them it does seem that I could land a fairly good job.

However, I have been hearing some talk about new rules, tightening up the situation and narrowing the job-prospects even for native speakers.

As I understand it, according to these rules I would have to have a certain amount of teaching experience on top of the other credentials if hoping to land employment.

What is your take on this - will the rules in question be enforced by most major schools, or is there hope for the combination Uni. degree+TEFL course cert+good marks on the IELTS still being enough for a non-native speaker of English to get hired?

[Tarragona]

What subject is your Masters exactly? You may be able to get a decent university job in your field in one of the international programmes, which would pay better.

[PeaceBlondie]

Oliver, we don't know the answers to your excellent and important questions. Thailand is not so much governed by the rule of law, as by the rule of social relationships. Laws are unevenly enforced, and these new regulations (which date back three years) are too strict and unreasonable to be heavily enforced in the long run. Now we're in the short run, we hear rumours that many teachers are leaving, and nobody knows.

We think that if the rules were enforced, you'd need a real degree like bachelor of education, and proof that you're certified in your native country as a fully qualified teacher. Or, proof that you're already grandfathered in, before 2003. Or, that you've passed some unknown course in Thai culture. Or, that......it's absurd.

How do you say "Illegal alien with wet back" in Swedish?

[Oliver Larson]

Oliver, we don't know the answers to your excellent and important questions. Thailand is not so much governed by the rule of law, as by the rule of social relationships. Laws are unevenly enforced, and these new regulations (which date back three years) are too strict and unreasonable to be heavily enforced in the long run. Now we're in the short run, we hear rumours that many teachers are leaving, and nobody knows.

We think that if the rules were enforced, you'd need a real degree like bachelor of education, and proof that you're certified in your native country as a fully qualified teacher. Or, proof that you're already grandfathered in, before 2003. Or, that you've passed some unknown course in Thai culture. Or, that......it's absurd.

How do you say "Illegal alien with wet back" in Swedish?

It would be something like "olaglig främling med blöt rygg".

I gather from your reply that the regulations in question are not very realistic if they want any teachers in the classrooms at all, as I do not belive the majority of those applying for teaching work in Thailand will posess all of them.

So although your answer is that you don't know, that's an answer in itself; same old Thailand, where social relations,good looks and a white face seem to overcome many of the obstacles one may encounter while looking for work. Which of course isn't ideal either; there should be recquirements, but realistic ones. I tend to think that much more emphasis should be put on testing language ability of those applying, and perhaps demanding at least a TEFL course to be taken, including sufficient classroom hours.

I was simply under the impression that these rules were written very recently, but if they're three years old and haven't affected very much of the above mentioned situation then perhaps I worry

a bit too much. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

My major? Well it's political science, but I must admit choosing that subject may have been a mistake. I was never really enthusiastic about it as a whole when studying it, and in my mind,

that signals poor prospects of becoming a teacher good enough for the university level.

Getting employed is one thing, however I aim to stay employed as well...

So I guess I'll take my chances with English after all.

What's the worst thing that could happen (apart from some bloke stashing heroin in my luggage at the airport and me being executed)?

My conclusion based on the discussion in this thread, combined with the things I've read and heard elsewhere, is that I will at least give it a try and then we'll see what happens.

I'm single and have no strong bindings to anything or anyone, so I can behave in such an irresponsible manner.

But who knows for how much longer? Nah, I'll try it out or regreat that I didn't.

Thanks everyone. Here goes.

[Jonson83]

Good luck.Hope everything works out for you.

[webster13b]

Oliver, we don't know the answers to your excellent and important questions. Thailand is not so much governed by the rule of law, as by the rule of social relationships. Laws are unevenly enforced, and these new regulations (which date back three years) are too strict and unreasonable to be heavily enforced in the long run. Now we're in the short run, we hear rumours that many teachers are leaving, and nobody knows.

We think that if the rules were enforced, you'd need a real degree like bachelor of education, and proof that you're certified in your native country as a fully qualified teacher. Or, proof that you're already grandfathered in, before 2003. Or, that you've passed some unknown course in Thai culture. Or, that......it's absurd.

How do you say "Illegal alien with wet back" in Swedish?

It would be something like "olaglig främling med blöt rygg".

I gather from your reply that the regulations in question are not very realistic if they want any teachers in the classrooms at all, as I do not belive the majority of those applying for teaching work in Thailand will posess all of them.

So although your answer is that you don't know, that's an answer in itself; same old Thailand, where social relations,good looks and a white face seem to overcome many of the obstacles one may encounter while looking for work. Which of course isn't ideal either; there should be recquirements, but realistic ones. I tend to think that much more emphasis should be put on testing language ability of those applying, and perhaps demanding at least a TEFL course to be taken, including sufficient classroom hours.

I was simply under the impression that these rules were written very recently, but if they're three years old and haven't affected very much of the above mentioned situation then perhaps I worry

a bit too much. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

My major? Well it's political science, but I must admit choosing that subject may have been a mistake. I was never really enthusiastic about it as a whole when studying it, and in my mind,

that signals poor prospects of becoming a teacher good enough for the university level.

Getting employed is one thing, however I aim to stay employed as well...

So I guess I'll take my chances with English after all.

What's the worst thing that could happen (apart from some bloke stashing heroin in my luggage at the airport and me being executed)?

My conclusion based on the discussion in this thread, combined with the things I've read and heard elsewhere, is that I will at least give it a try and then we'll see what happens.

I'm single and have no strong bindings to anything or anyone, so I can behave in such an irresponsible manner.

But who knows for how much longer? Nah, I'll try it out or regreat that I didn't.

Thanks everyone. Here goes.

Mate, feel free to give it a try, after all TIT ..this is Thailand. As previously mentioned, the law here is unevenly enforced. About the new requirements? Who on earth, who's a native speaker of English, well-educated with bachelors or masters degree in Education, would decide to go and teach in Thailand when they can work in their own respective countries? All those who go here, (native speakers I mean) are drunkards, backpackers who decides to teach to fund their trips, unemployed college dropouts who sees Thailand as a scapegoat, and lastly, those who are curious of the ease of the sex trade in this country. I'm not generalizing but this is true. So I say, there are still schools out there who would be willing to hire you despite of lack of experience. Meet different kinds of people who can help you. As the saying goes" It's not what you know, it's WHO you know" .. good luck with all your endeavors.

[bradthai]

webster.

associating yourself with other teachers here????

2 years in and know the scene.

worst post i've seen on any post. as far as massive generalisatons are concerned.

10 years in, and nothing like you describe "most"

just read your post again web. ###### off ######

[PeaceBlondie]

By our forum rules, webster's vicious rant should be struck, but just for the heck of it, we can let it remain for a day or two, and react to it.

Webster, I'm sorry if you've spent your TEFL experiences in Thailand with lowlife sub-human farang. What about the farang who married Thai teachers (I can think of 5 offhand), or married girls outside the sex trade (I can think of at least 10), or married women who earn more than they do (a few)?

You make the absurd claim that your descriptions apply to all (including yourself), without exception. No, it's a lie, and you told the lie. Welcome to the forum TEACHING IN THAILAND. You are in what country?

[oliveror]

I believe that 95% of all English teachers in Thailand are not native speakers! Some of them are really bad examples.

I am Ukrainian and learned my English from England. Now I am running my private English school [deleted commercial link] and even I still do some grammar mistakes my pronunciation is quite ok, and much - much better then any of English Thai teachers from local schools around.

I’ve got engineering degree and teacher’s certificate from London which I got just before I came to Thailand 2 years ago.

Good luck!

[PeaceBlondie]

Fair comments, oliveror. I would disagree with your 95% figure; more like 30% are from France, Slovenia, Ukraine, Denmark, etc. And some are bad examples, which should encourage our original poster to think about coming over.

I'll estimate that maybe 15% of the Thai teachers of English, in the provincial secondary schools, are reasonably fluent in English. That's why there's such a demand for people of European background to teach speaking and listening. Plus, lots of farang teach subjects other than English.

[Ijustwannateach]

Webster is our old friend LadPrao/Dumpster/whatever. He will be duly processed.

[Neeranam]

Webster, I like the cut of your jib.

His post was fairly accurate, if you ask me.

[Ijustwannateach]

Topic has turned into flamebait. Closed.