They get more like us every day

[eyecatcher]

We often jibe about Thai lack of initiative and forethought, but this one reminded me of the classic British lack of forethought.....Roadworks.

What happens in England is they will resurface a road, committing massive investment then you can guarantee a week later the gas, water, cable, electric companies will be digging it up.

It seems the Thai's are following our initiative on roadworks now.

The day before yesterday, they tarmacced the road, then yesterday they excavated for a new service trench.

I am all for Thailand taking onboard western ideas but they don't need to follow our own foibles as well.

What other ill advised western ideas are they taking on board?

[northernjohn]

Commercialism over family values.

[amexpat]

Jobs! Providing jobs for the people who pave, people who dig it up, people who re-pave. What's the problem?

[Thighlander]

They do that in America, too. Verizon is the worst....I can still here the groans, when the Verizon trucks are spotted in the neighborhood, then for the areas that are dirt, they only bury the fibre optic lines two inches under-ground. My dad cut one with an aerator.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Debt.

[amexpat]

Debt.

Debt.???

[NeverSure]

They do that in America, too. Verizon is the worst....I can still here the groans, when the Verizon trucks are spotted in the neighborhood, then for the areas that are dirt, they only bury the fibre optic lines two inches under-ground. My dad cut one with an aerator.

I'm having a problem with this one. Where I live the roads belong to some government entity such as city, county, state or federal.

It is strictly illegal, and simply won't happen to cut into the pavement of a road that's less than two years old. Plan ahead.

If you need to cut into a road and place something, there are strict codes on how deep they must be. Power is 2.5 feet and the cable or fiber optic you mention is 2 feet. A lengthy permit process is in place followed by a government inspector looking at the ditch after it's dug to assure it meets code. Then the item in question may be placed. When the ditch is backfilled, the type of material is specified and it must be compacted to 95% at 10% moisture. The government inspector checks that compaction with an atomic tester.

Only then can it be repaved and the strength of the paving material will be tested by boring a small core sample and testing it in a lab. Concrete or asphalt, makes no difference.

The repairs are nice and last as long as the original paving. There is no "slam, bam, thank you mam" about it. I can't imagine how it could be so vastly different elsewhere.

BTW cutting a fibre optic cable is a very big deal to repair and I can't imagine a cable/internet company being sloppy about installation.

[Thighlander]

They have to run it from the street to the houses.....that's often private property. So are they going to wait to years if a gas line is leaking? The high end internet providers extend the fibre all the way to the wall, in the US, anyway. The CEO of Verizon recently acknowledged he didn't know what Blue Tooth is.......too busy with ridiculous union contracts. They're the laughing stock of the Silicon Valley.

[NeverSure]

They have to run it from the street to the houses.....that's often private property. So are they going to wait to years if a gas line is leaking? The high end internet providers extend the fibre all the way to the wall, in the US, anyway. The CEO of Verizon recently acknowledged he didn't know what Blue Tooth is.......too busy with ridiculous union contracts. They're the laughing stock of the Silicon Valley.

So what can they do? Run high voltage power lines just 6 inches below the surface because it's private property? No, of course there are codes for that just as there a codes for building a house on private property.

I've never heard of a gas line leaking under a street. The required materials and the extensive testing before covering up assures that. If they couldn't assure it, they would run the gas lines underground but right next to the street to make it accessible. The pressure in a gas line is fairly low. But the gas company, after laying a new line must put 200 psi pressure in it, affix a pressure gauge, and prove that it can hold that pressure for 48 hours with no loss before it can be back filled and used.

California is a highly regulated state with tough laws for most things. I'm still having a problem with the idea that underground utilities are sloppy. The building codes are all embedded in state law.

[Thighlander]

ever hear of wooden gas pipes? Washington DC had them.

http://www.lawnsite.com/archive/index.php/t-401229.html

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28782000-Fiber-optic-cable-repair

and more on the gas pipes....isn't San Bruno in the Golden Brown State?

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39159597/ns/us_news-life/t/aging-gas-pipes-risk-explosion-nationwide/#.U68XBZS4yuY

[amexpat]

^ The cable repair link above just says that VZ repairs cables when they get damaged.

More interesting is the one about San Bruno's gas pipes. It tells us that things don't last forever.

But here is the best part:

"But the effort has fallen short. Critics say the regulatory system is ripe for problems because the government leaves it up to the companies to do inspections, and utilities are reluctant to spend the money necessary to properly fix and replace decrepit pipelines."

Exactly! Companies don't want to spend money that could otherwise be used for executive bonuses. Standards and practices that benefit the public are only established and enforced effectively by government and Unions. Yes, unions. Of course enforcement is sometimes lacking but voluntary compliance is a very rare phenomenon.

Edit for typo

[Thighlander]

The unions didn't help in that case, because PG&E is 100% union, and in California an employee has no choice about having union dues deducted from his paycheck. It didn't help GM, either, or the owner's of the cars with defective ignition switches.

[NeverSure]

The topic is about tearing streets up right after they are built. Someone said they do that in America.

The topic isn't about old gas lines that leak, or new gas line inspection.

I don't believe that new gas lines are installed under streets before or after the street is built, and then they need to be torn up. I suppose it could happen rarely but I have built miles and miles of new streets and never had a problem.

I think the problem is in Thailand with the Thai lack of planning to be sure everything is done in the correct sequence, and done properly.

[Thighlander]

I've always been told to get an "inside" job.

[chiang mai]

I managed a project twelve years ago that involved Japan, we needed to supply fiber (optic) from a landing station (out of the water and onto land) to the NOC (the controlly bit), That meant digging up the streets of a major Japanese city, we were not allowed to start work before 11:00pm and we had to return the street to its previous state, by 6:00am and to evacuate until 11:00pm that evening, our cost was just over USD 1 mill. per night.

[northernjohn]

They do that in America, too. Verizon is the worst....I can still here the groans, when the Verizon trucks are spotted in the neighborhood, then for the areas that are dirt, they only bury the fibre optic lines two inches under-ground. My dad cut one with an aerator.

I'm having a problem with this one. Where I live the roads belong to some government entity such as city, county, state or federal.

It is strictly illegal, and simply won't happen to cut into the pavement of a road that's less than two years old. Plan ahead.

If you need to cut into a road and place something, there are strict codes on how deep they must be. Power is 2.5 feet and the cable or fiber optic you mention is 2 feet. A lengthy permit process is in place followed by a government inspector looking at the ditch after it's dug to assure it meets code. Then the item in question may be placed. When the ditch is backfilled, the type of material is specified and it must be compacted to 95% at 10% moisture. The government inspector checks that compaction with an atomic tester.

Only then can it be repaved and the strength of the paving material will be tested by boring a small core sample and testing it in a lab. Concrete or asphalt, makes no difference.

The repairs are nice and last as long as the original paving. There is no "slam, bam, thank you mam" about it. I can't imagine how it could be so vastly different elsewhere.

BTW cutting a fibre optic cable is a very big deal to repair and I can't imagine a cable/internet company being sloppy about installation.

What country do you live in?

I am used to road work in North America but the only thing I have seen there that you talk about is the compaction testing. I have seen lot's of newly paved roads tore up for utilities. I was on a job once where a fiber optic cable got cut twice. You are rite it took them a fair amount of time to repair it.

[northernjohn]

The topic is about tearing streets up right after they are built. Someone said they do that in America.

The topic isn't about old gas lines that leak, or new gas line inspection.

I don't believe that new gas lines are installed under streets before or after the street is built, and then they need to be torn up. I suppose it could happen rarely but I have built miles and miles of new streets and never had a problem.

I think the problem is in Thailand with the Thai lack of planning to be sure everything is done in the correct sequence, and done properly.

Sorry to disagree with you but I to have been involved in miles and miles of new streets being built and also saw them later being torn up for utilities. Maybe they have changed in the last few years but it was always a sign that a street was going to be torn up for utilities when I was young. I admit in latter years it didn't happen near as often but it did happen.

I know of one stretch of highway that before it was completed they had a contract out to user a heat scarification system to repave parts of it. For the most part now they will have all the underground in before they pave in new housing projects. But that is private money not public money.

[eyecatcher]

I didn't realise I was going to start such a boring thread.

Has any other OP started a thread and then doesn't want to read the replies (ericpasansai excepted)

[chiang mai]

I didn't realise I was going to start such a boring thread.

Has any other OP started a thread and then doesn't want to read the replies (ericpasansai excepted)

Yes, but life goes on.

BTW haven't seen eric for some time, I hope he's OK.

[dave2]

re

BTW haven't seen eric for some time

i think hes keeping his head down after the

is this a crocodile post that disapeared

but we all make mistakes

dave2

[eyecatcher]

I didn't realise I was going to start such a boring thread.

Has any other OP started a thread and then doesn't want to read the replies (ericpasansai excepted)

Yes, but life goes on.

BTW haven't seen eric for some time, I hope he's OK.

Oh, well you missed a classic.

Just three days ago he had to discuss the number of holes in the salt and pepper shaker, seemed it was imperative as his marriage depended on it.

Eric is an icon already.

[NeverSure]

The topic is about tearing streets up right after they are built. Someone said they do that in America.

The topic isn't about old gas lines that leak, or new gas line inspection.

I don't believe that new gas lines are installed under streets before or after the street is built, and then they need to be torn up. I suppose it could happen rarely but I have built miles and miles of new streets and never had a problem.

I think the problem is in Thailand with the Thai lack of planning to be sure everything is done in the correct sequence, and done properly.

Sorry to disagree with you but I to have been involved in miles and miles of new streets being built and also saw them later being torn up for utilities. Maybe they have changed in the last few years but it was always a sign that a street was going to be torn up for utilities when I was young. I admit in latter years it didn't happen near as often but it did happen.

I know of one stretch of highway that before it was completed they had a contract out to user a heat scarification system to repave parts of it. For the most part now they will have all the underground in before they pave in new housing projects. But that is private money not public money.

If I saw a new street getting its surface redone I'd believe it didn't meet the strength test when samples were core drilled. You say heat and I think asphalt.

Assuming the asphalt is a proper mix, if it isn't hot enough of if the ground is too cool, the roller will be unable to compact it. It will harden too fast. It has to remain hot long enough for the roller to press all of the air out of it.

[northernjohn]

The topic is about tearing streets up right after they are built. Someone said they do that in America.

The topic isn't about old gas lines that leak, or new gas line inspection.

I don't believe that new gas lines are installed under streets before or after the street is built, and then they need to be torn up. I suppose it could happen rarely but I have built miles and miles of new streets and never had a problem.

I think the problem is in Thailand with the Thai lack of planning to be sure everything is done in the correct sequence, and done properly.

Sorry to disagree with you but I to have been involved in miles and miles of new streets being built and also saw them later being torn up for utilities. Maybe they have changed in the last few years but it was always a sign that a street was going to be torn up for utilities when I was young. I admit in latter years it didn't happen near as often but it did happen.

I know of one stretch of highway that before it was completed they had a contract out to user a heat scarification system to repave parts of it. For the most part now they will have all the underground in before they pave in new housing projects. But that is private money not public money.

If I saw a new street getting its surface redone I'd believe it didn't meet the strength test when samples were core drilled. You say heat and I think asphalt.

Assuming the asphalt is a proper mix, if it isn't hot enough of if the ground is too cool, the roller will be unable to compact it. It will harden too fast. It has to remain hot long enough for the roller to press all of the air out of it.

Asphalt was not my field and to be honest with you it was a shit job done in a hurry to make a government official look good finishing it by a certain date. I heard stories of the Paving machines being pulled through the mud by the trucks. Might have got the name wrong. It is a machine that goes over the existing paving grinds it up adds oil as needed and relays it. If I remember the machine was about 50 feet long. Of course followed up by rollers. But I have seen it where a new paved street was torn up in about 6 months for utilities to be put in.

Never on private money. always public money.

[eyecatcher]

The topic is about tearing streets up right after they are built. Someone said they do that in America.

The topic isn't about old gas lines that leak, or new gas line inspection.

I don't believe that new gas lines are installed under streets before or after the street is built, and then they need to be torn up. I suppose it could happen rarely but I have built miles and miles of new streets and never had a problem.

I think the problem is in Thailand with the Thai lack of planning to be sure everything is done in the correct sequence, and done properly.

Sorry to disagree with you but I to have been involved in miles and miles of new streets being built and also saw them later being torn up for utilities. Maybe they have changed in the last few years but it was always a sign that a street was going to be torn up for utilities when I was young. I admit in latter years it didn't happen near as often but it did happen.

I know of one stretch of highway that before it was completed they had a contract out to user a heat scarification system to repave parts of it. For the most part now they will have all the underground in before they pave in new housing projects. But that is private money not public money.

If I saw a new street getting its surface redone I'd believe it didn't meet the strength test when samples were core drilled. You say heat and I think asphalt.

Assuming the asphalt is a proper mix, if it isn't hot enough of if the ground is too cool, the roller will be unable to compact it. It will harden too fast. It has to remain hot long enough for the roller to press all of the air out of it.

You are like route 66....going on and on and on.

You love roads evidently but I am very surprised that I have mentioned Barbour Green before you.

Now we are talking shop!

[muchogra]

"...What other ill advised western ideas are they taking on board?..."

Opinionated and conceited beings with no idea of reality, but bear in them the self-conceived notion that they are critical thinkers!...Referring mostly in the political arena. Nothing personal here, I hope!