Disabled claim half of new buses won't suit their needs

[ginjag]

That could be the post of the year.

Now what should be done is to try to identify the owner of the silver coloured car and prosecute him.

Thais park like this all over the country. I always have a spare key in my pocket.

I just give the cars a shove, they hardly ever leave the handbrake on when its a flat surface and parked. Sometimes pushing a little too hard results in a dull thud but hey thats karma

As mischievous kids we used to put a potato up the exhaust. works wonders, most seek a garage for help.

[englishoak]

That could be the post of the year.

Now what should be done is to try to identify the owner of the silver coloured car and prosecute him.

Thais park like this all over the country. I always have a spare key in my pocket.

I just give the cars a shove, they hardly ever leave the handbrake on when its a flat surface and parked. Sometimes pushing a little too hard results in a dull thud but hey thats karma

As mischievous kids we used to put a potato up the exhaust. works wonders, most seek a garage for help.

rammed way up with a stick guarantees a garage then theres milk in the air vents or nam plaa or in the good old days a penny in the hubcap rattling orsugar sprinked around the fuel filler cap usually got them down the garage out of fear too... but.. we digress

[harrry]

No Gingjag we are posting because it is a subject we (or at least I have a very direct intererst in. You however are posting to agravate or if you are not should re-read what you said and check whether what you said is what you really meant. I have given you the benefit of the doubt and considered that you post was when you said it was not what you meant was due to poor knowledge of english language. I however revise that view based on your subsequent posts and realise it is you who are trying to agravate.

Maybe you are like the senior officer of an Australian University who seriously proposed that it was not worth the two percent extra costs of having a fully accessible university and that people could go elswhere. A serious proposal but that same person was a very solid supporter and active participent in Sailability Australial

Harry I have explained to you how I stand on the subject, you do NOT want to understand that. (my last post tells you) unless your English is not so good.

Please tell me what part of my original post so aggravated you ??? explain. ???

I was for years involved with the disabled and understand their needs totally. The problem here is ( I will explain again) the Thai state does not give access to all----secondly if all disabled persons were given wheelchairs --highways--local government and transport are not raelly interested---a case of out of sight and out of mind with many of these people.

My English is far from perfect, but I get by, with most other posters. Who doe's speak the perfect Queens English YOU ??

You are not my teacher and is also against TVF rules to attack posters, re their typing-spelling etc. do not be so clever my wind up friend.

Australia is not the topic. read the rules. If you can???

Your contribution to the topic ??? without the likes, and wind up. I have said all and do not want the further involvement in your wind up. READ MY POSTS they tell you my stance, not a twisted interpretation of a sentence you prefer to back up another--he was the original wind up.

I repeat read what you read or as you seem to be unable to do so get someone who can speak and read English do so. It has nothing to do with spelling or grammar, it is related to what you mean. If you did not mean what you said revise it and post again. From the tone of your posts I am not sure I do want to be your friend.

[Tyvsa Sksass]

You and Harry are posting for aggravations sake. My post is appealing to authorities to give all access, my post is appealing to local authorities to provide paths for wheelchairs, my post is to ask why a vast amount of disabled are NOT supplied with chairs. Do you both get me ??? or can you find a way to twist this post.???

I made one comment, where do you get "posting for aggravations sake" and "twisting this post" from that?

If you had posted so that your comment was understandable, as you have done this time, you could have avoided the aggravation that you now seem to want to drag out.

[BirdsandBooze]

The whole infrastructure needs remodelling. Following a serious accident I was confined to a wheelchair and found that in Bangkok moving around the city outside of a car was impossible. My own experience of ordinary Thais was that they were happy to assist me. They were very quick to help me navigate access ramps, use lifts, hold doors open and re-arrange restaurant seating.

[ginjag]

You and Harry are posting for aggravations sake. My post is appealing to authorities to give all access, my post is appealing to local authorities to provide paths for wheelchairs, my post is to ask why a vast amount of disabled are NOT supplied with chairs. Do you both get me ??? or can you find a way to twist this post.???

I made one comment, where do you get "posting for aggravations sake" and "twisting this post" from that?

If you had posted so that your comment was understandable, as you have done this time, you could have avoided the aggravation that you now seem to want to drag out.

I explained everything quite clear, please read my post and you will be able to decipher the tone of my post-- pro help the disabled. You added more confusion to the post----tell me what you didn't like, as my post was all for getting more help to disabled folks. I want the conversation to end, you actually initially read my post how YOU believed it was written. Sorry for backing up the disabled, leave you guys to it.

[ginjag]

No Gingjag we are posting because it is a subject we (or at least I have a very direct intererst in. You however are posting to agravate or if you are not should re-read what you said and check whether what you said is what you really meant. I have given you the benefit of the doubt and considered that you post was when you said it was not what you meant was due to poor knowledge of english language. I however revise that view based on your subsequent posts and realise it is you who are trying to agravate.

Maybe you are like the senior officer of an Australian University who seriously proposed that it was not worth the two percent extra costs of having a fully accessible university and that people could go elswhere. A serious proposal but that same person was a very solid supporter and active participent in Sailability Australial

Harry I have explained to you how I stand on the subject, you do NOT want to understand that. (my last post tells you) unless your English is not so good.

Please tell me what part of my original post so aggravated you ??? explain. ???

I was for years involved with the disabled and understand their needs totally. The problem here is ( I will explain again) the Thai state does not give access to all----secondly if all disabled persons were given wheelchairs --highways--local government and transport are not raelly interested---a case of out of sight and out of mind with many of these people.

My English is far from perfect, but I get by, with most other posters. Who doe's speak the perfect Queens English YOU ??

You are not my teacher and is also against TVF rules to attack posters, re their typing-spelling etc. do not be so clever my wind up friend.

Australia is not the topic. read the rules. If you can???

Your contribution to the topic ??? without the likes, and wind up. I have said all and do not want the further involvement in your wind up. READ MY POSTS they tell you my stance, not a twisted interpretation of a sentence you prefer to back up another--he was the original wind up.

I repeat read what you read or as you seem to be unable to do so get someone who can speak and read English do so. It has nothing to do with spelling or grammar, it is related to what you mean. If you did not mean what you said revise it and post again. From the tone of your posts I am not sure I do want to be your friend.

I'm from Lincolnshire that will explain my shocking English. I do not wish some wanna be stirrer to tell me how to write thanks. You did not read it the way I wanted--simple as that. Think there are enough return posts to explain, without you trying to pick up some brownie points.

Your tone in your posts leaves little to be desired. I normally do not have too much trouble with fellow posters only the few--you fall amongst them. I never asked you to be my friend thanks, only to be more considerate --if you 2 wish to want me to explain anything you only have to ask if I did not make it clear, NOT more or less tell me I should seek help.

Quote "I repeat read what you read or as you seem to be unable to do so get someone who can speak and read English do so" by the look of this sentence you need an English speaking FRIEND. have a nice day.

[asdecas]

While they are at it, clear all the disused phone booths, etc. that are blocking the footpaths and install ramps at intersections. Bangkok is the worst city I have ever seen for being non-friendly for wheelchair users.

You have clearly never been to Manila, Jakarta, Phnom Penh or HCM City, to name but a few.

[asdecas]

Even with low-rise buses that have electric ramps to assist loading of wheelchairs, I imagine Bangkok, with its uneven road surfaces, its variable-height pavements and its potholes, would not be an easy place to use them.

[rametindallas]

While they are at it, clear all the disused phone booths, etc. that are blocking the footpaths and install ramps at intersections. Bangkok is the worst city I have ever seen for being non-friendly for wheelchair users.

You have clearly never been to Manila, Jakarta, Phnom Penh or HCM City, to name but a few.

Clearly, I never claimed Bangkok is the worst city in the world for wheelchairs; just the worst city I have seen.

[harrry]

For those who say that because at the moment the streets are not good there is no point in the buss's consider whether it would be better to have accessible bus stops and no buss's. Yes you have to start somewhere. Get the buss's and make key points accessible....Malls, hospitals, Universities Schools. This would make it possible to go somewhere if you could get on the bus. It may be possible for family to drive or otherwise get the person to one of these key spots and he could travel to the others by bus. Second, improve the infrastructure you have already: Clear the sidewalks and build kerb ramps where needed. This widens the area. Next include accessible paths and entrances in all new infrastructure by design. 10 years can see a real improvement and by 20 years people are no longer confined to their homes by disability.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Seems the "bus for all" network is being a bit over the top in their demands. Thailand has a long way to go before it would considered developed to western standards. Especially those standards dedicated to the disabled.

I would think they would be pretty happy about getting half the buses the way they want them.

If they want to bitch about accessibility for disabled people, I would suggest starting at how to even get to the bust stop in the first place.

To be clear, 100% would be able to accommodate the disabled. They just don't like that some will require a lift (as many western countries have on buses) .... or is it they simply don't want to ride on an non-air conditioned bus?

Not sure about this purchase and cost of ridership but usually the non-air conditioned buses or close to it. If you want to pay more then you wait for an air conditioned one. Seems this would be equality for the disabled ... they want a low bus with air con then they wait.

With that said this should be seen as good news for the disabled but there is still a lot more to do and why I don't blame them for asking for more but in this instance, I don't think they should get more as the buses will accommodate them and doing more would would harm a much much greater number of financially disabled people.

[Emster23]

Ok, I'll stick my foot in it.

Regarding parking on side walk and "Give the car a shove". All I can say is "try that in a wheelchair". Lessons in mass and inertia.

I see the glass as half full and am surprised there would even be a token attempt to acknowledge there are people in wheelchairs. Who knows, maybe seeing the king in wheelchair is changing a few attitudes or at least making aware. Sidewalks are so uneven, with hidden hazards (visible ones too) that seem enough to put normally mobile folks into wheelchairs.

There is the old issue of karma. I did some volunteer work in Bali with handicapped mobility. Recall one nice young girl of 22, only been out of family compound three times in her life! Perhaps on philosophical level they believe in karma here, but when encounter wheelchair bound person in reality that snaps them into helping mode (doing kindness to make merit may enter into also).

Just a couple thoughts...

[harrry]

Ok, I'll stick my foot in it.

Regarding parking on side walk and "Give the car a shove". All I can say is "try that in a wheelchair". Lessons in mass and inertia.

I see the glass as half full and am surprised there would even be a token attempt to acknowledge there are people in wheelchairs. Who knows, maybe seeing the king in wheelchair is changing a few attitudes or at least making aware. Sidewalks are so uneven, with hidden hazards (visible ones too) that seem enough to put normally mobile folks into wheelchairs.

There is the old issue of karma. I did some volunteer work in Bali with handicapped mobility. Recall one nice young girl of 22, only been out of family compound three times in her life! Perhaps on philosophical level they believe in karma here, but when encounter wheelchair bound person in reality that snaps them into helping mode (doing kindness to make merit may enter into also).

Just a couple thoughts...

I have found Thais at all levels to be willing to help get around, problem is sometimes they do not know the best way to help but the spirit is there more than in most countries.

THailand in fact has one of the earliest disability laws I have found. THe Royal Decree http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2485/A/008/331.PDF which in brief tells

1. "In public places or roads, people should assist and protect children, the elderly, or the handicapped."
2. "Whoever follows item 1 is considered a cultured person deserving of the respect of the Thai people."^[

[dcutman]

For those who say that because at the moment the streets are not good there is no point in the buss's consider whether it would be better to have accessible bus stops and no buss's. Yes you have to start somewhere. Get the buss's and make key points accessible....Malls, hospitals, Universities Schools. This would make it possible to go somewhere if you could get on the bus. It may be possible for family to drive or otherwise get the person to one of these key spots and he could travel to the others by bus. Second, improve the infrastructure you have already: Clear the sidewalks and build kerb ramps where needed. This widens the area. Next include accessible paths and entrances in all new infrastructure by design. 10 years can see a real improvement and by 20 years people are no longer confined to their homes by disability.

There is no argument on any of your points.

The only problem with your theory is something called a budget.

Not sure you have had the same problems many of us had about having to walk through raw sewage running/flooding the streets and footpaths.

What is the priority for a city in a third world country of around 10 million people with a limited budget?

It would be great if all busses where designed for people with disabilities as they should be (when the budget is available). It would also be equally appreciated by all (10 million) people as well as the environment to have a proper sewage and waste water system. Wouldn't you think?

But there is no budget for that either.

[harrry]

For those who say that because at the moment the streets are not good there is no point in the buss's consider whether it would be better to have accessible bus stops and no buss's. Yes you have to start somewhere. Get the buss's and make key points accessible....Malls, hospitals, Universities Schools. This would make it possible to go somewhere if you could get on the bus. It may be possible for family to drive or otherwise get the person to one of these key spots and he could travel to the others by bus. Second, improve the infrastructure you have already: Clear the sidewalks and build kerb ramps where needed. This widens the area. Next include accessible paths and entrances in all new infrastructure by design. 10 years can see a real improvement and by 20 years people are no longer confined to their homes by disability.

There is no argument on any of your points.

The only problem with your theory is something called a budget.

Not sure you have had the same problems many of us had about having to walk through raw sewage running/flooding the streets and footpaths.

What is the priority for a city in a third world country of around 10 million people with a limited budget?

It would be great if all busses where designed for people with disabilities as they should be (when the budget is available). It would also be equally appreciated by all (10 million) people as well as the environment to have a proper sewage and waste water system. Wouldn't you think?

But there is no budget for that either.

THere is almost no difference between the new cost of a low floor bus with a ramp and one without. Lifts however are another story.

[JohnThailandJohn]

For those who say that because at the moment the streets are not good there is no point in the buss's consider whether it would be better to have accessible bus stops and no buss's. Yes you have to start somewhere. Get the buss's and make key points accessible....Malls, hospitals, Universities Schools. This would make it possible to go somewhere if you could get on the bus. It may be possible for family to drive or otherwise get the person to one of these key spots and he could travel to the others by bus. Second, improve the infrastructure you have already: Clear the sidewalks and build kerb ramps where needed. This widens the area. Next include accessible paths and entrances in all new infrastructure by design. 10 years can see a real improvement and by 20 years people are no longer confined to their homes by disability.

There is no argument on any of your points.

The only problem with your theory is something called a budget.

Not sure you have had the same problems many of us had about having to walk through raw sewage running/flooding the streets and footpaths.

What is the priority for a city in a third world country of around 10 million people with a limited budget?

It would be great if all busses where designed for people with disabilities as they should be (when the budget is available). It would also be equally appreciated by all (10 million) people as well as the environment to have a proper sewage and waste water system. Wouldn't you think?

But there is no budget for that either.

THere is almost no difference between the new cost of a low floor bus with a ramp and one without. Lifts however are another story.

There is a difference in price between cheaper buses and more expensive buses. The less expensive buses would also not have air conditioning. Many of these cheaper non-air conditioned buses are free to ride and those wanting a free bus wait for them and those wanting to pay for an air conditioned bus wait for them. Equality would be if they don't want to use a life because it takes too long then wait like others who prefer one bus over another.

I am 100% in favor of moving to a place where all buses can accommodate those in wheelchairs and it would seem they are looking to accomplish this with this purchase while also maintaining a fleet of less expensive buses to serve the financially handicapped.

If the low floor buses were more economical then you'd be darn sure they would have bought them all this way unless of course you consider they hold less passengers (causing a rise in fare price to make same profit) and they are not good on flooded roadways and the price of ramps as well as their reliability has improved greatly over the last decades. These are just some of the reasons why many US cities are looking to go back to the higher floored buses and why some resisted ever adopting low floor ones when laws were passed to make them be more accessible for the handicapped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-floor_bus

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/to-lower-upkeep-cost-dtc-to-raise-height-of-bus-floors/1190990/

[harrry]

For those who say that because at the moment the streets are not good there is no point in the buss's consider whether it would be better to have accessible bus stops and no buss's. Yes you have to start somewhere. Get the buss's and make key points accessible....Malls, hospitals, Universities Schools. This would make it possible to go somewhere if you could get on the bus. It may be possible for family to drive or otherwise get the person to one of these key spots and he could travel to the others by bus. Second, improve the infrastructure you have already: Clear the sidewalks and build kerb ramps where needed. This widens the area. Next include accessible paths and entrances in all new infrastructure by design. 10 years can see a real improvement and by 20 years people are no longer confined to their homes by disability.

There is no argument on any of your points.

The only problem with your theory is something called a budget.

Not sure you have had the same problems many of us had about having to walk through raw sewage running/flooding the streets and footpaths.

What is the priority for a city in a third world country of around 10 million people with a limited budget?

It would be great if all busses where designed for people with disabilities as they should be (when the budget is available). It would also be equally appreciated by all (10 million) people as well as the environment to have a proper sewage and waste water system. Wouldn't you think?

But there is no budget for that either.

THere is almost no difference between the new cost of a low floor bus with a ramp and one without. Lifts however are another story.

There is a difference in price between cheaper buses and more expensive buses. The less expensive buses would also not have air conditioning. Many of these cheaper non-air conditioned buses are free to ride and those wanting a free bus wait for them and those wanting to pay for an air conditioned bus wait for them. Equality would be if they don't want to use a life because it takes too long then wait like others who prefer one bus over another.

I am 100% in favor of moving to a place where all buses can accommodate those in wheelchairs and it would seem they are looking to accomplish this with this purchase while also maintaining a fleet of less expensive buses to serve the financially handicapped.

Many of the busses in Singapore and in Malasia are not airconditioned and they have ramps fitted. Yes they are manually operated which is a decision made as the reliability of lifts and electric ramps is not high. Cost of ramp equiped standard busses is not really. different to one with a ramp,

[toybits]

City planners and transport ministers should take a look at eh Curitiba - Brazil example. Those Brazilians know their s h i t. http://www.streetfilms.org/curitibas-brt/

[kurnell]

That could be the post of the year.

Now what should be done is to try to identify the owner of the silver coloured car and prosecute him.

Thais park like this all over the country. I always have a spare key in my pocket.

I just give the cars a shove, they hardly ever leave the handbrake on when its a flat surface and parked. Sometimes pushing a little too hard results in a dull thud but hey thats karma

Nice option. Will try it

[dcutman]

For those who say that because at the moment the streets are not good there is no point in the buss's consider whether it would be better to have accessible bus stops and no buss's. Yes you have to start somewhere. Get the buss's and make key points accessible....Malls, hospitals, Universities Schools. This would make it possible to go somewhere if you could get on the bus. It may be possible for family to drive or otherwise get the person to one of these key spots and he could travel to the others by bus. Second, improve the infrastructure you have already: Clear the sidewalks and build kerb ramps where needed. This widens the area. Next include accessible paths and entrances in all new infrastructure by design. 10 years can see a real improvement and by 20 years people are no longer confined to their homes by disability.

There is no argument on any of your points.

The only problem with your theory is something called a budget.

Not sure you have had the same problems many of us had about having to walk through raw sewage running/flooding the streets and footpaths.

What is the priority for a city in a third world country of around 10 million people with a limited budget?

It would be great if all busses where designed for people with disabilities as they should be (when the budget is available). It would also be equally appreciated by all (10 million) people as well as the environment to have a proper sewage and waste water system. Wouldn't you think?

But there is no budget for that either.

THere is almost no difference between the new cost of a low floor bus with a ramp and one without. Lifts however are another story.

There is a difference in price between cheaper buses and more expensive buses. The less expensive buses would also not have air conditioning. Many of these cheaper non-air conditioned buses are free to ride and those wanting a free bus wait for them and those wanting to pay for an air conditioned bus wait for them. Equality would be if they don't want to use a life because it takes too long then wait like others who prefer one bus over another.

I am 100% in favor of moving to a place where all buses can accommodate those in wheelchairs and it would seem they are looking to accomplish this with this purchase while also maintaining a fleet of less expensive buses to serve the financially handicapped.

If the low floor buses were more economical then you'd be darn sure they would have bought them all this way unless of course you consider they hold less passengers (causing a rise in fare price to make same profit) and they are not good on flooded roadways and the price of ramps as well as their reliability has improved greatly over the last decades. These are just some of the reasons why many US cities are looking to go back to the higher floored buses and why some resisted ever adopting low floor ones when laws were passed to make them be more accessible for the handicapped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-floor_bus

http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/to-lower-upkeep-cost-dtc-to-raise-height-of-bus-floors/1190990/

Might as well give up trying to argue points. Time would be better spent banging your head against the wall.