Motorbike taxis played a big part in 2010

[londonthai]

This story is a lie. I have never said that "Phua Thai had hired the motorbike taxis" to join the Red Shirts. The drivers who supported the movement did it because of their own ideology, belief in democracy, and hate for double standard and inequality. The Nation should be ashamed of calling itself a newspaper. They do not report news, they fabricate them.

You have the right for a correction and an apology from the nation.

You might consider contacting bangkok post and other newspapers with a story, how the nation manipulates articles. It's not free press in thailand, the state censorship getting stronger, but somebody will speak up.

I bet that shortly "not the nation" online newspapaer will pick up on it, as international journalists.

As i have suspected the nation article stinks yellow propaganda

Edited July 8, 2014 by londonthai

[bkkstooge]

I find it hard to believe that there was a PTP slush fund specifically used for the services of the MC taxis. However it does seem, having used both motorsais and taxis regularly in the past 3 years in bkk, that there are many drivers/riders who are UDD supporters maybe not fully paid up members but vocal supporters. Consequently this does appear to be the main reason why this Govt has come down on taxi drivers Motosai taxi gangs so hard. Oh and thanks for the link Fab4

[sae57]

This story is a lie. I have never said that "Phua Thai had hired the motorbike taxis" to join the Red Shirts. The drivers who supported the movement did it because of their own ideology, belief in democracy, and hate for double standard and inequality. The Nation should be ashamed of calling itself a newspaper. They do not report news, they fabricate them.

Sorry 'Claudio" I keep rereading the article and don't find it said that "Phua Thai had hired the motorbike taxies" to join the Red Shirts. It said that the UDD used the taxies to get about town--and paid, of course. Anyone on the ground here knows very well that most of the drivers were already firm supporters of PT and gave their support to the activities willingly. Anyone who speaks Thai and/or Isan and who talks and listens to people also know that none of this has anything to do with ideology or belief in democracy perse. It has/had to do with bringing back the hero Thaksin, who would fix everything and make everybody rich. Let me back off a bit--it also has to do with a fully justified desire to assert regional/ethnic pride, and ending discrimination and national neglect.

--S

[gemini81]

This story is a lie. I have never said that "Phua Thai had hired the motorbike taxis" to join the Red Shirts. The drivers who supported the movement did it because of their own ideology, belief in democracy, and hate for double standard and inequality. The Nation should be ashamed of calling itself a newspaper. They do not report news, they fabricate them.

New name, same ol' troll. Banned again?

Those guys didn't believe in democracy, or even know what the heck it is. They wanted freebies, goodies. We all know that, who are you trying to fool? Just yourself?

Know what is so funny? The newspaper you moan you about is the one you take the time to pick up and read. If it were so bad, you wouldn't read it, right?

Edited July 8, 2014 by gemini81

[harrry]

Claudio I will say that your paper is interesting however your current comments on the reporting of your presentation and your virulent attack on the newspaper do in fact make me question whether there is a bias..possibly one of identification and hence would make me more liable to check your observations with other sources. On the face of it a good paper but there are aspects which possibly need verification.

[Benmart]

No disrespect, but what on earth is an Italian doing studying the role of motorcycle taxis in the Bangkok protests. Isn't there something a little more useful in the world to study?

Freedom comes to mind. What is useful to me may not be to others. I didn't pay for the man's education or any of the study. I would say it's none of my business.

[Thanet]

I think the title of this article is misleading.

It should perhaps instead read ..

"Big Brother has Gloriously Identified Motorcycle Taxis as a Nothing More than a Festering Pool of Supporters of the Enemy of the State"

The Ministry of Truth has authorised us to tell you that re-education work is in progress to root out this cancer in our midst.

[exona]

This is common knowledge. The Suan Plu boys were shooting down Sathurn at the army barricades. The poor Aussie embassy stuck in the middle of the Free Fire Zone.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Emster23]

"Sopranzetti also pointed out that this gave rise to red-shirt motorbike taxis group." So there was no mafia before that? I find that hard to believe. And the whole bit about MC taxis knowing the streets and get people around quickly: isn't that their job? Is there a bias against knowing what you're doing regarding a job? It's what they get paid for..... I am pretty sure they would also haul UDD people around if they didn't want to take the Mercedes out that day.....

[Soutpeel]

Can I have a doctorate as well ?.... I didn't realise they handed them out for stating the bloody obvious

Edited July 8, 2014 by Soutpeel

[lubbkis]

No disrespect, but what on earth is an Italian doing studying the role of motorcycle taxis in the Bangkok protests. Isn't there something a little more useful in the world to study?

No disrespect, but this seems to be a serious political/social science case study whose results may be replicable to many similar situations. Why should it not be studied by an Italian researcher. Academia tends to be an International venture.

[lubbkis]

I never knew Harvard had a college called Oxford University. <deleted>? Learn something new everyday, hey!

Edit: Maybe it was time Geography was introduced as a school subject? Kids and reporters might then know that Harvard is not in Oxford, and Oxford is not in Harvard, and that Harvard is a name, not a place. Kids might be able to find Thailand on the globe, and actually see that there's a lot more beyond its small borders!

I've only briefly looked at this thread but it seems to me that a Doctorate was granted at Harvard and the researcher has a post-doc position at Oxford. These are pretty sound endorsements.

[marcusd]

If the taxis support the ptp.. Look at reasons why then address those reasons.

That's how you change things.

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

The reason seems to be the money that they get from ptp

Then that is a reason they need addressing - SALARIES

[techboy]

No disrespect, but what on earth is an Italian doing studying the role of motorcycle taxis in the Bangkok protests. Isn't there something a little more useful in the world to study?

At least Thai's are listening to someone from out side of Thailand for a change.

Thais listen when it "suits" them.

Rather than 'listening', Thais are experts at being 'selectively deaf'.

Then again I see people posting in this forum who are "selectively ignorant."

[bkkjames]

If the taxis support the ptp.. Look at reasons why then address those reasons.

That's how you change things.

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

The reason seems to be the money that they get from ptp

Then that is a reason they need addressing - SALARIES

The guys on thonglor make 50 to 90k a month already...

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[firestar]

The dissertation that the seminar was discussing was accepted by Harvard University on 9th September 2013. Which begs the question I have already asked, why now, when the junta are trying to "reconcilliate" everybody?

And how, not only was it deemed worthy of a thread in the Thailand news forum but made it to my newsletter as a highlighted "editor's pick". Myanmar generals comments that were front page news everywhere never did.

[rubl]

I think the title of this article is misleading.

It should perhaps instead read ..

"Big Brother has Gloriously Identified Motorcycle Taxis as a Nothing More than a Festering Pool of Supporters of the Enemy of the State"

The Ministry of Truth has authorised us to tell you that re-education work is in progress to root out this cancer in our midst.

Maybe

"Cleaning lady praised for digging up Harvard article

Ms. S. while cleaning away the paperwork left by the former CAPO organisation found a Harvard article dated September 2013 which was 'lost' by the CAPO. When asked former CAPO head Pol. Captain Chalerm said not to remember having seen the article. At the time he was more concerned with warning about possible violence if the wrong decisions were made. Also he was too busy when the CAPO demanded from all news outlets not to publish news that could be deemed putting anti-government protesters in a favorite light."

[bigbamboo]

Not news! This has been common knowledge all along, tho Mr Sopranzetti's dissertation--an ethnography of motocytaxi drivers looks fascinating (thanks to Fab4 for the link!)

Thaksin moved in a limited way to clean up the taxi mafias, one of the reasons the drivers became so devoted to him. One of the first rules of seizing power: get the taxi drivers on your side! This is but one way in which the junta's actions resemble those of TS. Let's hope it's not all a front for setting up a larcenous state.

I thought that's what the junta were trying to put an end to.

[londonthai]

This story is a lie. I have never said that "Phua Thai had hired the motorbike taxis" to join the Red Shirts. The drivers who supported the movement did it because of their own ideology, belief in democracy, and hate for double standard and inequality. The Nation should be ashamed of calling itself a newspaper. They do not report news, they fabricate them.

New name, same ol' troll. Banned again?

Those guys didn't believe in democracy, or even know what the heck it is. They wanted freebies, goodies. We all know that, who are you trying to fool? Just yourself?

Know what is so funny? The newspaper you moan you about is the one you take the time to pick up and read. If it were so bad, you wouldn't read it, right?

Claudio has posted almost the same text on his facebook, so he is not an imposter.

The motorbike drivers, claudio and forum members who you call "trolls" do have the democratic right to have political opinions and express them freely. And you are trying to stiffle that right

Edited July 8, 2014 by londonthai

[JAG]

The Motrcycle Taxi guys, being Thai, have lost the freedom to hold and express political views.

As for the rest of us? Gemini81 is one of several on this forum working on that!

[Thanet]

I think the title of this article is misleading.

It should perhaps instead read ..

"Big Brother has Gloriously Identified Motorcycle Taxis as a Nothing More than a Festering Pool of Supporters of the Enemy of the State"

The Ministry of Truth has authorised us to tell you that re-education work is in progress to root out this cancer in our midst.

Maybe

"Cleaning lady praised for digging up Harvard article

Ms. S. while cleaning away the paperwork left by the former CAPO organisation found a Harvard article dated September 2013 which was 'lost' by the CAPO. When asked former CAPO head Pol. Captain Chalerm said not to remember having seen the article. At the time he was more concerned with warning about possible violence if the wrong decisions were made. Also he was too busy when the CAPO demanded from all news outlets not to publish news that could be deemed putting anti-government protesters in a favorite light."

I'm sorry Rubl. You seem like a decent sort, but having looked at your profile (assuming that it is true) I'm finding it really hard to take you seriously.

You were born in a Western democracy, at a time when it had recently been saved from a great tyranny during WWII, and whose citizens would have been quite likely murdered had this tyranny been allowed to prevail. In other words, had your forefathers and their allies not fought against this tyranny, in the name of the freedoms that you now enjoy, you would not even be here to post.

Now you are here, you are using those very same freedoms to propose that a tyranny is the best system of government, in a country where you are not even a citizen. If tyranny goes wrong here, irreversibly so, as history shows it often does, then you'll be on the first plane back to your country of origin, to enjoy all those hard-fought-for-freedoms once again, right?

Doesn't the clear logical paradox of your position bother you in any way? People don't voluntarily choose tyrants. Tyrants choose themselves.

Now if you had been born and brought up in a tyranny, I'd be able to sympathise with your position a lot more.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Thanet

[rubl]

I think the title of this article is misleading.

It should perhaps instead read ..

"Big Brother has Gloriously Identified Motorcycle Taxis as a Nothing More than a Festering Pool of Supporters of the Enemy of the State"

The Ministry of Truth has authorised us to tell you that re-education work is in progress to root out this cancer in our midst.

Maybe

"Cleaning lady praised for digging up Harvard article

Ms. S. while cleaning away the paperwork left by the former CAPO organisation found a Harvard article dated September 2013 which was 'lost' by the CAPO. When asked former CAPO head Pol. Captain Chalerm said not to remember having seen the article. At the time he was more concerned with warning about possible violence if the wrong decisions were made. Also he was too busy when the CAPO demanded from all news outlets not to publish news that could be deemed putting anti-government protesters in a favorite light."

I'm sorry Rubl. You seem like a decent sort, but having looked at your profile (assuming that it is true) I'm finding it really hard to take you seriously.

You were born in a Western democracy, at a time when it had recently been saved from a great tyranny during WWII, and whose citizens would have been quite likely murdered had this tyranny been allowed to prevail. In other words, had your forefathers and their allies not fought against this tyranny, in the name of the freedoms that you now enjoy, you would not even be here to post.

Now you are here, you are using those very same freedoms to propose that a tyranny is the best system of government, in a country where you are not even a citizen. If tyranny goes wrong here, irreversibly so, as history shows it often does, then you'll be on the first plane back to your country of origin, to enjoy all those hard-fought-for-freedoms once again, right?

Doesn't the clear logical paradox of your position bother you in any way? People don't voluntarily choose tyrants. Tyrants choose themselves.

Now if you had been born and brought up in a tyranny, I'd be able to sympathise with your position a lot more.

The information in my profile is correct.

The rest of your post is just describing the NCPO in a way you can suggest great evil happily forgetting the undemocratic government which simply didn't want to go and tried it's best to drag on and on and push for elections which it thought it could win again to get a 'mandate' to bring big brother back home.

A political party run by a criminal fugitive with help of a hijacked protest arm to do the dirty pressure work. Cowarly attacks in the night on anti-government protesters, all in the name of democracy with big brother.

No, I can't symphatise with your distorted view of how you think I should see things.

[webfact]

Correction

REACTING TO a report in The Nation on July 8 headlined "Motorbike taxis played a big part in 2010 protests, seminar told", Claudio Sopranzetti, a post-doctoral student at Oxford University, said he had been misquoted in the article.

He said he had never mentioned Pheu Thai Party during his recent talk at Chulalongkorn University, and he had never said that motorcycle-taxi drivers were paid by the party during the 2010 red-shirt protests. We regret the inaccuracy and apologise to all affected parties.

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Correction-30238153.html

-- The Nation 2014-07-10

[Thanet]

Correction

REACTING TO a report in The Nation on July 8 headlined "Motorbike taxis played a big part in 2010 protests, seminar told", Claudio Sopranzetti, a post-doctoral student at Oxford University, said he had been misquoted in the article.

He said he had never mentioned Pheu Thai Party during his recent talk at Chulalongkorn University, and he had never said that motorcycle-taxi drivers were paid by the party during the 2010 red-shirt protests. We regret the inaccuracy and apologise to all affected parties.

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Correction-30238153.html

-- The Nation 2014-07-10

After all that, it seems that he was talking out of his backside. That. or the news was 'adjusted' by the powers that be, so as to make it look like some imaginary evil force was at work

[Thanet]

I think the title of this article is misleading.

It should perhaps instead read ..

"Big Brother has Gloriously Identified Motorcycle Taxis as a Nothing More than a Festering Pool of Supporters of the Enemy of the State"

The Ministry of Truth has authorised us to tell you that re-education work is in progress to root out this cancer in our midst.

Maybe

"Cleaning lady praised for digging up Harvard article

Ms. S. while cleaning away the paperwork left by the former CAPO organisation found a Harvard article dated September 2013 which was 'lost' by the CAPO. When asked former CAPO head Pol. Captain Chalerm said not to remember having seen the article. At the time he was more concerned with warning about possible violence if the wrong decisions were made. Also he was too busy when the CAPO demanded from all news outlets not to publish news that could be deemed putting anti-government protesters in a favorite light."

I'm sorry Rubl. You seem like a decent sort, but having looked at your profile (assuming that it is true) I'm finding it really hard to take you seriously.

You were born in a Western democracy, at a time when it had recently been saved from a great tyranny during WWII, and whose citizens would have been quite likely murdered had this tyranny been allowed to prevail. In other words, had your forefathers and their allies not fought against this tyranny, in the name of the freedoms that you now enjoy, you would not even be here to post.

Now you are here, you are using those very same freedoms to propose that a tyranny is the best system of government, in a country where you are not even a citizen. If tyranny goes wrong here, irreversibly so, as history shows it often does, then you'll be on the first plane back to your country of origin, to enjoy all those hard-fought-for-freedoms once again, right?

Doesn't the clear logical paradox of your position bother you in any way? People don't voluntarily choose tyrants. Tyrants choose themselves.

Now if you had been born and brought up in a tyranny, I'd be able to sympathise with your position a lot more.

The information in my profile is correct.

The rest of your post is just describing the NCPO in a way you can suggest great evil happily forgetting the undemocratic government which simply didn't want to go and tried it's best to drag on and on and push for elections which it thought it could win again to get a 'mandate' to bring big brother back home.

A political party run by a criminal fugitive with help of a hijacked protest arm to do the dirty pressure work. Cowarly attacks in the night on anti-government protesters, all in the name of democracy with big brother.

No, I can't symphatise with your distorted view of how you think I should see things.

Nobody liked Thaksin much, myself included. He's a cross between an oligarch and a democrat, and reminds me of Silvio Berlusconi. But at least there was a system in place that could kick him out once the citizenry got tired of him. Quite likely, that would have happened, had the opposition presented itself as a credible alternative in a democratic election.

That;s more than can be said for the system that we have now, which increasingly resembles a tyranny, and we are all completely at the mercy of what they decide to do next. Well, you are not at their mercy coz you can always go home.

[fab4]

The information in my profile is correct.

The rest of your post is just describing the NCPO in a way you can suggest great evil happily forgetting the undemocratic government which simply didn't want to go and tried it's best to drag on and on and push for elections which it thought it could win again to get a 'mandate' to bring big brother back home.

A political party run by a criminal fugitive with help of a hijacked protest arm to do the dirty pressure work. Cowarly attacks in the night on anti-government protesters, all in the name of democracy with big brother.

No, I can't symphatise with your distorted view of how you think I should see things.

Talking of distorted views, rubl, what's all this about an

"undemocratic government which simply didn't want to go". I'll ignore your "undemocratic" remark as that is an opinion and I don't want to be drawn into an argument about the definition of democracy. I will question your assertion that they wouldn't go. Did the dissolution of parliament, a year or so before their term was up, pass you by, somehow? Or the fact that constitutionally they were obliged to stay on as a caretaker government until new elections had taken place. Or their constitutional obligation to hold those elections despite the "street politics" policy of disruption planned by the dems and pdrc?

The amnesty had nothing whatsoever to do with those elections - you can bleat all you like when you assume that the PTP and its coalition partners would have retracted their decision not to re-submit the Amnesty Bill - the fact is, thanks to the PDRC, the EC and ultimately the CC, the Feb 2nd Election was nullified. As a result the final (before the coup) proposed date for new election was scheduled for August 2nd (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ac4a4a5e-e095-11e3-9534-00144feabdc0.html#slide0) which would render any attempt to re-submit the Bill as unconstitutional - notwithstanding the fact that the PTP and partners had already ruled out any attempt to do so.

"A political party run by a criminal fugitive" - This phrase is getting a bit tired by now and when looked at objectively refers to a former PM who was found guilty by the (junta appointed) courts of "abuse of power" after an extensive campaign by a (junta appointed) body called the Assets Examination Committee which composed mostly anti-Thaksin appointees. The "abuse of power" - countersigning a document (as required by law) for his then wife's legal property purchase through tendering the highest bid in a sealed bid auction. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/corrubtion/showcase.php?id=2, http://slimdogsworld.blogspot.com/

"Cowarly attacks in the night on anti-government protesters, all in the name of democracy with big brother."

When you move beyond the assumption that "big brother" ordered these attacks in the name of "democracy" and reflect on the reality (an extreme minority of "red shirts" acting under their own misguided volition) there might be something worth discussing. Otherwise all you are going to attract is tit for tat accusations trying to prove whose atrocities were worse - I'm not going to get into that game, I'll leave that to the usual suspects on here.

So, how distorted a view was that?

[rubl]

to be blanked, something went wrong

Edited July 10, 2014 by rubl

[rubl]

The information in my profile is correct.

The rest of your post is just describing the NCPO in a way you can suggest great evil happily forgetting the undemocratic government which simply didn't want to go and tried it's best to drag on and on and push for elections which it thought it could win again to get a 'mandate' to bring big brother back home.

A political party run by a criminal fugitive with help of a hijacked protest arm to do the dirty pressure work. Cowarly attacks in the night on anti-government protesters, all in the name of democracy with big brother.

No, I can't symphatise with your distorted view of how you think I should see things.

Talking of distorted views, rubl, what's all this about an

"undemocratic government which simply didn't want to go". I'll ignore your "undemocratic" remark as that is an opinion and I don't want to be drawn into an argument about the definition of democracy. I will question your assertion that they wouldn't go. Did the dissolution of parliament, a year or so before their term was up, pass you by, somehow? Or the fact that constitutionally they were obliged to stay on as a caretaker government until new elections had taken place. Or their constitutional obligation to hold those elections despite the "street politics" policy of disruption planned by the dems and pdrc?

The amnesty had nothing whatsoever to do with those elections - you can bleat all you like when you assume that the PTP and its coalition partners would have retracted their decision not to re-submit the Amnesty Bill - the fact is, thanks to the PDRC, the EC and ultimately the CC, the Feb 2nd Election was nullified. As a result the final (before the coup) proposed date for new election was scheduled for August 2nd (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ac4a4a5e-e095-11e3-9534-00144feabdc0.html#slide0) which would render any attempt to re-submit the Bill as unconstitutional - notwithstanding the fact that the PTP and partners had already ruled out any attempt to do so.

"A political party run by a criminal fugitive" - This phrase is getting a bit tired by now and when looked at objectively refers to a former PM who was found guilty by the (junta appointed) courts of "abuse of power" after an extensive campaign by a (junta appointed) body called the Assets Examination Committee which composed mostly anti-Thaksin appointees. The "abuse of power" - countersigning a document (as required by law) for his then wife's legal property purchase through tendering the highest bid in a sealed bid auction. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/corrubtion/showcase.php?id=2, http://slimdogsworld.blogspot.com/

"Cowarly attacks in the night on anti-government protesters, all in the name of democracy with big brother."

When you move beyond the assumption that "big brother" ordered these attacks in the name of "democracy" and reflect on the reality (an extreme minority of "red shirts" acting under their own misguided volition) there might be something worth discussing. Otherwise all you are going to attract is tit for tat accusations trying to prove whose atrocities were worse - I'm not going to get into that game, I'll leave that to the usual suspects on here.

So, how distorted a view was that?

You write "notwithstanding the fact that the PTP and partners had already ruled out any attempt to do so." and seem to believe that. Yet when the other side says something you don't believe it. In both cases you have the same lack of information or knowledge to accurately judge. You simply presume.

Now how's that for double standards?

Anyway, I'd note down the "an extreme minority of "red shirts" acting under their own misguided volition". For future reference. In the mean time I'll just believe k. Jatuporn if you don't mind.

BTW I totally agree that the blanket amnesty bill had nothing to do with the elections. Just a minor miscalculation on the part of Thaksin. Caused people to protest, ignore Ms. Yingluck calming words of "please go home, more to follow". Still wonder why the coverage period was extended to include Thaksin's last two years in/out of office and Ms. Yingluck's first two years. If if they needed it.

Anyway, you posted the link to the full dissertation, did you read it yourself by now?

Edited July 10, 2014 by rubl