Courtesy? In Bangkok?

[Donz]

You can call it "Culture", you can call it "Manners" but the reality is that letting people get off of a packed BTS train before getting on yourself is just plain "Common Sense".

Similar experience trying to get off the bus, lady rush on the stair of the bus before I can get off, I purposely bump into her and told her to wait till I get off. Her reaction was of a surprised look on her face and did not know why I was mad at her. I guess the concept of common sense here for many is of nonsense

And you purposely bumping into a lady is an act of kindness?? give me a break. So if someone is rude to you, you think pushing them out the way is mature?

[Losangels]

You can call it "Culture", you can call it "Manners" but the reality is that letting people get off of a packed BTS train before getting on yourself is just plain "Common Sense".

Similar experience trying to get off the bus, lady rush on the stair of the bus before I can get off, I purposely bump into her and told her to wait till I get off. Her reaction was of a surprised look on her face and did not know why I was mad at her. I guess the concept of common sense here for many is of nonsense

And you purposely bumping into a lady is an act of kindness?? give me a break. So if someone is rude to you, you think pushing them out the way is mature?

Yes it is rude and I do feel guilty about it. But it is something for her to think about the next time she is in a rush to get on

[thohts]

5555 this is funny.

new yorkers are some of the rudest people ever. the only friendly ones are those who get a big tip from me. more money, more arse kissing.

Hardly.

I've never spent time in a big city that has people that are more polite.

btw, there is a difference between "courtesy" and "politeness".

Sure.. Thai people are generally polite. Are they generally courteous? I don't think so.

[jdinasia]

a pretty amazing thread ! some valid complaints ... but more so ... just many many people that don't fit in well.

or maybe more accurately "just don't get it!" Cities of 12 million people just don't fit the mold most of the time ... add to that a vast cultural difference and whammo! ...

Edited August 2, 2006 by jdinasia

[GoodHeart]

Once had an employee here who started to use her mobile phone when I was mid sentence in conversation with her. It was not to recieve a call but to make one

When I explained the day after that I was no longer employing her she found it impossible to make the connection between her actions and her sudden unemployment.

Som nam na

Ironic, isn't it. The more rude the person the less metacognitive they are. The polite person would have understood instantly. But they'd never have made that call in the first place, either.

Edited August 2, 2006 by GoodHeart

[GoodHeart]

After nearly a couple of years, I've learned to not be curteous to most Thai people because they usually (besides lowering their heads) aren't curteous to me or one-another.

Why waste the effort...

How tragically sad! Given up on your humanity have you? Do you suppose everyone sees that dark cloud looming over your head as you move about the city?

Project that attitude long enough and we'll be living in an 'every man for himself' jungle.

[thohts]

Project that attitude long enough and we'll be living in an 'every man for himself' jungle.

Teh.. we almost are! It's called "Bangkok".

Are you suggesting that the very many people here who do not display courtesy-as-we-know-it have clouds over their heads? I don't think so. It's called adapting to your environment.

[GoodHeart]

Project that attitude long enough and we'll be living in an 'every man for himself' jungle.

Teh.. we almost are! It's called "Bangkok".

Are you suggesting that the very many people here who do not display courtesy-as-we-know-it have clouds over their heads? I don't think so. It's called adapting to your environment.

I'm suggesting that we interpret events around us to fit our weltanschauung. And yours appears overcast

I go out amidst the same city every day. And every day I go out with intention: to extend kindness. Upon my return I can usually recount numerous occasions of polite gestures I saw extend by others to others.

[Donz]

People in all cities can be rude etc, You go to london and people slam doors, go to sydney you will see elderly not getting a seat, go to paris you see someone getting in the bus before the others get off.

You all seem to think thw whole world have courtesy but bangkok doesnt.

There is people with courtesy there, I think most of you just like to remember when a Thai did something wrong and complain about it.

[thohts]

People in all cities can be rude etc, You go to london and people slam doors, go to sydney you will see elderly not getting a seat, go to paris you see someone getting in the bus before the others get off.

You all seem to think thw whole world have courtesy but bangkok doesnt.

There is people with courtesy there, I think most of you just like to remember when a Thai did something wrong and complain about it.

If this were a forum on Paris or Sydney, I'm sure we'd offer our opinion on either city.

As this is a forum about Bangkok and topic about courtesy therein, I think it's fit to offer opinions and commentary on it.

Yes, of course there are "people with courtesy" in Bangkok. No one is saying there aren't.

I go out amidst the same city every day. And every day I go out with intention: to extend kindness. Upon my return I can usually recount numerous occasions of polite gestures I saw extend by others to others.

Most of us, including myself, seem to have that in mind. I "extend courtesy" where it is appropriate, every day, to be sure.

However, when it is obvious to me that the other person does not care for courtesy, I do not extend it. That would be socially inefficient.

Many of my friends, here and abroad, compliment me on being a gentleman. However, they also know I don't put up with BS and am *not* a gentleman to everyone. Unlike some others, I don't do as Jesus would do. I do what I believe is appropriate for the situation.

[Arsenal]

a pretty amazing thread ! some valid complaints ... but more so ... just many many people that don't fit in well.

or maybe more accurately "just don't get it!" Cities of 12 million people just don't fit the mold most of the time ... add to that a vast cultural difference and whammo! ...

You are guilty of the same simple minded generalising that you condemn.Why should anyone think you "get it" more than anyone else? I don't have a problem with generalisations per se; in fact it's necessary on a forum like this to make a point.Don't however insult the intelligence of members.We all know there are many exceptions to any general observation.

Yes I do believe the rigid class system in Thailand is a contributory factor to bad manners, probably no worse here I agree than in HK and New York though there are different causes in those places.Another factor is the focus on family and intimates here at the expense of society at large.Your error is to explain Thai bad manners away, where it exists, through cultural ignorance on the part of Westerners.

Perhaps you are a relative newcomer infused with a hazy glow on all things Thai.I am fond of Thailand as well but nearly 30 years residence permits a rather more sophisticated approach.From your posts I can see you are no fool, and this is really just a polite way of suggesting you think a little more carefully about the environment in which you find yourself.If it's not too provocative given that it runs counter to the received wisdom, I would say that compassion for the outsider and rejected, the highest expression of good manners, is more readily found in the West in Thailand.But I recognise there are many many exceptions.

[jdinasia]

WOW ...

That's a fun post! You quote me saying that there are some valid complaints ... and thensay I explain it all away!

Then to think that your 30 years of residence here makes you a better judge of things than my meager 3 years! WOW! Of course that would mean that your basis of comparison in living someplace new is 30 years outdated .....

As for your 'rigid class system' .... a completely different topic but the advent of test-based Uni admissions into the good schools has done a lot to diminish that, as has television etc etc etc.

[dog412]

let's face it, the thai socializing system only seems to recognize that which they KNOW they "need" to impress, and that which they KNOW they don't know, and "need" to impress to avoid conflict. there's always a reason. thais are very aware of their surroundings, and KNOW what they can get away with and what not. that being said, bangkok is about the most difficult city i have had the pleasure to explore, walking ways.

[Mr_Know-it-All]

WOW ...

Then to think that your 30 years of residence here makes you a better judge of things than my meager 3 years! WOW! Of course that would mean that your basis of comparison in living someplace new is 30 years outdated .....

As for your 'rigid class system' .... a completely different topic but the advent of test-based Uni admissions into the good schools has done a lot to diminish that, as has television etc etc etc.

After 30 years, the "just the way it is" mindset really takes over.

[Arsenal]

WOW ...

Then to think that your 30 years of residence here makes you a better judge of things than my meager 3 years! WOW! Of course that would mean that your basis of comparison in living someplace new is 30 years outdated .....

As for your 'rigid class system' .... a completely different topic but the advent of test-based Uni admissions into the good schools has done a lot to diminish that, as has television etc etc etc.

After 30 years, the "just the way it is" mindset really takes over.

I've known farang here who have become remarkably aware after just a year or two of residence.I've known old timers who have been stunningly ignorant of Thai culture,history and language.But to suggest that somehow new arrivals have an advantage in perception because they have no mindset preconceptions is just plain puerile.

[Donz]

the amount of time being there doesnt mean crap, just like i have discovered in other sections, Ive been there on holidays 6 times and I know more about things then some people thats been there 5 plus years

[jdinasia]

WOW ...

Then to think that your 30 years of residence here makes you a better judge of things than my meager 3 years! WOW! Of course that would mean that your basis of comparison in living someplace new is 30 years outdated .....

As for your 'rigid class system' .... a completely different topic but the advent of test-based Uni admissions into the good schools has done a lot to diminish that, as has television etc etc etc.

After 30 years, the "just the way it is" mindset really takes over.

I've known farang here who have become remarkably aware after just a year or two of residence.I've known old timers who have been stunningly ignorant of Thai culture,history and language.But to suggest that somehow new arrivals have an advantage in perception because they have no mindset preconceptions is just plain puerile.

Perhaps you are a relative newcomer infused with a hazy glow on all things Thai.I am fond of Thailand as well but nearly 30 years residence permits a rather more sophisticated approach.From your posts I can see you are no fool, and this is really just a polite way of suggesting you think a little more carefully about the environment in which you find yourself.

I am sorry .... again your 2 quotes here are not saying the same thing ..... Perhaps your nearly 30 years of residence permits have done exactly what has been suggested and stopped you from seeing anything? I have lived in 2 cities in Thailand ... in very different area. Speak Thai <read and write too>. Get around everywhere ... Have been exposed to situations that if you have any experience with would be dated by at least decades! <attending a Uni with students in Hua Hin ... being a student at Chula ...spending times with monks and mae-chi ... living in a Muslim village in the south ... etc etc.

Time often dulls people's perceptions of what is real. Instead people often just fall into a complacent trap of just seeing and accepting things without actually LOOKING at what theyare seeing!

[Arsenal]

WOW ...

Then to think that your 30 years of residence here makes you a better judge of things than my meager 3 years! WOW! Of course that would mean that your basis of comparison in living someplace new is 30 years outdated .....

As for your 'rigid class system' .... a completely different topic but the advent of test-based Uni admissions into the good schools has done a lot to diminish that, as has television etc etc etc.

After 30 years, the "just the way it is" mindset really takes over.

I've known farang here who have become remarkably aware after just a year or two of residence.I've known old timers who have been stunningly ignorant of Thai culture,history and language.But to suggest that somehow new arrivals have an advantage in perception because they have no mindset preconceptions is just plain puerile.

Perhaps you are a relative newcomer infused with a hazy glow on all things Thai.I am fond of Thailand as well but nearly 30 years residence permits a rather more sophisticated approach.From your posts I can see you are no fool, and this is really just a polite way of suggesting you think a little more carefully about the environment in which you find yourself.

I am sorry .... again your 2 quotes here are not saying the same thing ..... Perhaps your nearly 30 years of residence permits have done exactly what has been suggested and stopped you from seeing anything? I have lived in 2 cities in Thailand ... in very different area. Speak Thai <read and write too>. Get around everywhere ... Have been exposed to situations that if you have any experience with would be dated by at least decades! <attending a Uni with students in Hua Hin ... being a student at Chula ...spending times with monks and mae-chi ... living in a Muslim village in the south ... etc etc.

Time often dulls people's perceptions of what is real. Instead people often just fall into a complacent trap of just seeing and accepting things without actually LOOKING at what theyare seeing!

I could scarcely be bothered to reply because you keep harping on the one theme which (surprise surprise) gives you the newcomer the apparent advantage of fresh insights etc over the complacent old timer.I have said its all a bit more complicated than that and admit there are many exceptions, but that on the whole greater experience is helpful in understanding a subject.Hardly controversial I would have thought.Word of advice: get off the "I know more about Thailand than you" mantra.It's silly and self defeating.

[jdinasia]

You missed your own quote above ... again I see!

[Arsenal]

You missed your own quote above ... again I see!

End of dialogue suggested which is wildly off topic and boring to boot.No idea what you mean by "missed your own quote" by the way.But here's a quote for you

"Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain"

[lostgringo]

I would like to know more about this subject but it has turned into a major quarreling rant. What about the nose picking issue. How do you bring yourself around to eating the food there. I find the whole idea very repulsive. Sorry but that is how I feel. I wonder if they actually wash their hands after this before preparing food. I hear of an outbreak of a disease among youngseters...no wonder. Sure it's a cultural thing, but hey how gross.

[The Skipper]

Even if you stay here 40 years, or if you read/write Thai, been married 3 times, run business or know some bigshots, attended numerous weddings/funerals, grand openings, whatever.... the best expert in town still only knows 5%.

Now back to the subject of critisizing Thais and bad manners.

[t.s]

Everyone seems to forget that Thailand is not the most developed country in the world and alot dont have the education as most foreigners. But even in good old sydney you find people like that.

This is a joke,NY the best.Not the NY I know.I wouldn't give you two baht for the whole article.

what the hel_l are you talking about

once again donz proves he can type but not read. and donz, just for future reference there is a difference between "their" and "there". you dont have the education of most foreigners.

now i feel better.

and while i believe manners are cultural, courtesy is universal.

[andyashley]

wow..u guys sure cant love quarelling dont u

[SteveC]

Everyone seems to forget that Thailand is not the most developed country in the world and alot dont have the education as most foreigners. But even in good old sydney you find people like that.

It is not a question of having received a formal education. If you compare Thailand to most African countries which are poor and under-developed, you will find a far higher degree of courtesy and manners in Africa.

I would add that in general Africans also have a far greater awareness of what goes on both around them and in the outside world than most Thais (even many rich Thais who have frequented private schools and universities) .