OPINION: The right kind of long-timer

[larsjohnsson]

So, some guy who is successful enough to have made it by 40, to be wealthy beyond the imagination of the author of this Phuket news drivel, to be smarter and richer and contribute more to Thailand than a hundred of the ilk of this author or a truck full of immigration office nazis, who happens to be too young for a retirement visa, who spends more on hotels than this dumb author can imagine, is automatically feckless because he has too many stamps in his passport?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

So someone with wealth beyond imagination ... at age 40 can just put 10 million baht or roughly 300,000 $US into a Thai money market fund for the next 10 years and cash out at age 50 -- what's the big deal for someone with millions of dollars?

Good move put $300,000 US in Thailand for 10 years when the constitution can be shredded on a dime...... maybe the banks will be nationalized!! who knows.....do you really trust your money in a thai bank?

But they wrote for someone with wealth beyond your imagination. Then 300k will be a small sum

[samran]

The title is "Opinion" and as someone who was transferred here by my employer, and I would prefer many other places. I find that even before the crack down and this was several years ago. From the start, showing up at the Thai embassy with a checklist from my Thai employer, then being told the stack of paper was not enough, getting more paper and then told my wife also needs to be present, to get the visa. Then still not enough paper. It gave a sour taste of things to come once I moved here. But, since then, our HR people do most everything for us and there is no real hassle except for the expected city traffic, pollution and much of the same other unpleasent 3rd world things about. But my opinion, place is not so bad if you make it work for you.

The end of the long over staying back packer or ferral vagrant? I don't think I will notice, nor will any of my Thai neighbours. It will put a cottage industry of sorts out of business that has been running these "unwanted" back and forth for years. And they will just settle in a more friendly nation, the Bht200-300/night hostel style or just cheap end of tourism will go out of business, but that is of no concern I suppose.

I expect the thinning crowds in what was once bustling Khao San Road and Soi Buakaow will likley improve the traffic, so I will not have to worry about running over another old falang in a Chang singlet. Hate it when my wing mirror gets damaged by those barefoot old drunks!

With the new heavy hand, will it really lose that charm that is the reason so many actually do come here?

Test of Bernoulli's theorem is in the works and my slightly educated guess is that there will still be at least 50% below the standard they are hoping to attract. Anyone care to wager?

Yeah, me.

I reckon the impact will be minimal from an economic perspective.

Backpackers - they are here generally on their way through to somewhere else's. Poms and other assorted euros to Australia and New Zealand on working holiday visas. Antipodeans the other way, to do the same thing. The occasional Aussie who desired to work in Thailand can get a working holiday visa. No impact.

Retirees - no impact, a good enough visa exists for them.

Transferees - same as above

Cyber nomads. If they want to stay here they'll have to go legal. It isn't impossible. A web designer guy I use, American, has a proper set up here. If he can do it, so can others. Impact - legit businesses established. Company and income tax actually paid in Thailand. No bad thing.

English teachers - ditto. Schools are going to learn quite quickly that they'll lose a teacher every 30 days unless they set them up with the right papers. Which includes needing to pay them a proper salary. Can only be a positive. Fees might have to go up for students though. Again, no bad thing.

Offshore workers - they aren't out and in the same day. No impact.

I retired young - Sorry fellas. Thailand wants you to contribute. If you aren't willing to, there isn't much room for you unless you sign up to the elite card and put you money where your cyber mouths are.

So they are my thoughts.

Edited July 23, 2014 by samran

[TVGerry]

Fact of the matter is, a whole lot of foreigners have been taking advantage of this visa run thing for years. These people should ask themselves this. Would their own country allow such an obviously flawed system? Where it allows non tax paying people to work semi legally? No matter how much you think you contribute to the country, does your own country allow this? Or do they deport people?

[samran]

Fact of the matter is, a whole lot of foreigners have been taking advantage of this visa run thing for years. These people should ask themselves this. Would their own country allow such an obviously flawed system? Where it allows non tax paying people to work semi legally? No matter how much you think you contribute to the country, does your own country allow this? Or do they deport people?

ah, but the anti foreigner foreigners will run around proclaiming 'but I don't take any benefits!", conviently ignoring their subsidised petrol, LNG, electricity, public transport, rice as well as a whole swathe of other things, including visits to the doctor who were trained on the public purse and medicines which are can be much cheaper here due to the availablity of generics.

[LivinLOS]

Fact of the matter is, a whole lot of foreigners have been taking advantage of this visa run thing for years. These people should ask themselves this. Would their own country allow such an obviously flawed system? Where it allows non tax paying people to work semi legally? No matter how much you think you contribute to the country, does your own country allow this? Or do they deport people?

How does the visa run do anything of the sort..

And no, most countries would not create and encourage a system that is so backwards.. They create the visa classes they want, for tourist or resident visas, create clear definitions and consistent rules.. And allow people with wealth far above locals, who are unlikely to be a burden on the state, an actual path to citizenship. They of course allow people who have the right to work, to do so in any profession, and allow ownership of land etc for anyone.

[JLCrab]

Fact of the matter is, a whole lot of foreigners have been taking advantage of this visa run thing for years. These people should ask themselves this. Would their own country allow such an obviously flawed system? Where it allows non tax paying people to work semi legally? No matter how much you think you contribute to the country, does your own country allow this? Or do they deport people?

How does the visa run do anything of the sort..

And no, most countries would not create and encourage a system that is so backwards.. They create the visa classes they want, for tourist or resident visas, create clear definitions and consistent rules.. And allow people with wealth far above locals, who are unlikely to be a burden on the state, an actual path to citizenship. They of course allow people who have the right to work, to do so in any profession, and allow ownership of land etc for anyone.

You are right -- most countries are not Thailand. Of the 193 Member States of the United Nations, 192 of them are not Thailand.

[Boatfreak]

Dear Samran,

Please share with us how your American webdesigner friend did set up his company, may I remind you the conditions 2 million baht capital (not bad for a webdesigner) and employing 4 Thais and do not tell me he is just paying their social security because that is of course illegal and we are all agains that aren't we?

The title is "Opinion" and as someone who was transferred here by my employer, and I would prefer many other places. I find that even before the crack down and this was several years ago. From the start, showing up at the Thai embassy with a checklist from my Thai employer, then being told the stack of paper was not enough, getting more paper and then told my wife also needs to be present, to get the visa. Then still not enough paper. It gave a sour taste of things to come once I moved here. But, since then, our HR people do most everything for us and there is no real hassle except for the expected city traffic, pollution and much of the same other unpleasent 3rd world things about. But my opinion, place is not so bad if you make it work for you.

The end of the long over staying back packer or ferral vagrant? I don't think I will notice, nor will any of my Thai neighbours. It will put a cottage industry of sorts out of business that has been running these "unwanted" back and forth for years. And they will just settle in a more friendly nation, the Bht200-300/night hostel style or just cheap end of tourism will go out of business, but that is of no concern I suppose.

I expect the thinning crowds in what was once bustling Khao San Road and Soi Buakaow will likley improve the traffic, so I will not have to worry about running over another old falang in a Chang singlet. Hate it when my wing mirror gets damaged by those barefoot old drunks!

With the new heavy hand, will it really lose that charm that is the reason so many actually do come here?

Test of Bernoulli's theorem is in the works and my slightly educated guess is that there will still be at least 50% below the standard they are hoping to attract. Anyone care to wager?

Yeah, me.

I reckon the impact will be minimal from an economic perspective.

Backpackers - they are here generally on their way through to somewhere else's. Poms and other assorted euros to Australia and New Zealand on working holiday visas. Antipodeans the other way, to do the same thing. The occasional Aussie who desired to work in Thailand can get a working holiday visa. No impact.

Retirees - no impact, a good enough visa exists for them.

Transferees - same as above

Cyber nomads. If they want to stay here they'll have to go legal. It isn't impossible. A web designer guy I use, American, has a proper set up here. If he can do it, so can others. Impact - legit businesses established. Company and income tax actually paid in Thailand. No bad thing.

English teachers - ditto. Schools are going to learn quite quickly that they'll lose a teacher every 30 days unless they set them up with the right papers. Which includes needing to pay them a proper salary. Can only be a positive. Fees might have to go up for students though. Again, no bad thing.

Offshore workers - they aren't out and in the same day. No impact.

I retired young - Sorry fellas. Thailand wants you to contribute. If you aren't willing to, there isn't much room for you unless you sign up to the elite card and put you money where your cyber mouths are.

So they are my thoughts.

[samran]

Dear Samran,

Please share with us how your American webdesigner friend did set up his company, may I remind you the conditions 2 million baht capital (not bad for a webdesigner) and employing 4 Thais and do not tell me he is just paying their social security because that is of course illegal and we are all agains that aren't we?

The title is "Opinion" and as someone who was transferred here by my employer, and I would prefer many other places. I find that even before the crack down and this was several years ago. From the start, showing up at the Thai embassy with a checklist from my Thai employer, then being told the stack of paper was not enough, getting more paper and then told my wife also needs to be present, to get the visa. Then still not enough paper. It gave a sour taste of things to come once I moved here. But, since then, our HR people do most everything for us and there is no real hassle except for the expected city traffic, pollution and much of the same other unpleasent 3rd world things about. But my opinion, place is not so bad if you make it work for you.

The end of the long over staying back packer or ferral vagrant? I don't think I will notice, nor will any of my Thai neighbours. It will put a cottage industry of sorts out of business that has been running these "unwanted" back and forth for years. And they will just settle in a more friendly nation, the Bht200-300/night hostel style or just cheap end of tourism will go out of business, but that is of no concern I suppose.

I expect the thinning crowds in what was once bustling Khao San Road and Soi Buakaow will likley improve the traffic, so I will not have to worry about running over another old falang in a Chang singlet. Hate it when my wing mirror gets damaged by those barefoot old drunks!

With the new heavy hand, will it really lose that charm that is the reason so many actually do come here?

Test of Bernoulli's theorem is in the works and my slightly educated guess is that there will still be at least 50% below the standard they are hoping to attract. Anyone care to wager?

Yeah, me.

I reckon the impact will be minimal from an economic perspective.

Backpackers - they are here generally on their way through to somewhere else's. Poms and other assorted euros to Australia and New Zealand on working holiday visas. Antipodeans the other way, to do the same thing. The occasional Aussie who desired to work in Thailand can get a working holiday visa. No impact.

Retirees - no impact, a good enough visa exists for them.

Transferees - same as above

Cyber nomads. If they want to stay here they'll have to go legal. It isn't impossible. A web designer guy I use, American, has a proper set up here. If he can do it, so can others. Impact - legit businesses established. Company and income tax actually paid in Thailand. No bad thing.

English teachers - ditto. Schools are going to learn quite quickly that they'll lose a teacher every 30 days unless they set them up with the right papers. Which includes needing to pay them a proper salary. Can only be a positive. Fees might have to go up for students though. Again, no bad thing.

Offshore workers - they aren't out and in the same day. No impact.

I retired young - Sorry fellas. Thailand wants you to contribute. If you aren't willing to, there isn't much room for you unless you sign up to the elite card and put you money where your cyber mouths are.

So they are my thoughts.

I'm not privvy to his finances. But I will say he isn't the cheapest in town, so suspect his finances are strong.

We share the same accountant so I know he is legit as I put him on to her to sort out his stuff when he had issues a few years back. I pay a proper company in Thailand for his services. I know he has Thai people who work for him. Suspect he pays their SS and has a variable pay scale for them starting at minium wage up. But I'll allow for the fact that the 4 to 1 is restrictive. Nothing though to stop you hiring four cleaners though. Plenty of law and accounting firms do every time they bring in a new foreign lawyer - sorry, consultant.

He also works in Singapore and has a company/clients there.

Edited July 23, 2014 by samran

[TVGerry]

Fact of the matter is, a whole lot of foreigners have been taking advantage of this visa run thing for years. These people should ask themselves this. Would their own country allow such an obviously flawed system? Where it allows non tax paying people to work semi legally? No matter how much you think you contribute to the country, does your own country allow this? Or do they deport people?

How does the visa run do anything of the sort..

And no, most countries would not create and encourage a system that is so backwards.. They create the visa classes they want, for tourist or resident visas, create clear definitions and consistent rules.. And allow people with wealth far above locals, who are unlikely to be a burden on the state, an actual path to citizenship. They of course allow people who have the right to work, to do so in any profession, and allow ownership of land etc for anyone.

Umm how many foreigners and 'teachers' do this? They do their visa runs while working.

You're right, this country doesn't have a proper differentiation of visas nor consistent rules. Hopefully after this, they will change and improve the system. Until that happens, it still shouldn't allow 'tourists' to stay as long as they want and work. Get a work permit. Get a work visa.

[belg]

they forgot the kind of people, not aged 50, who sold their home & business , have wife & children and don't need to work ... aren't that quality long stayers? as they have EVERYTHING to lose

[LivinLOS]

Fact of the matter is, a whole lot of foreigners have been taking advantage of this visa run thing for years. These people should ask themselves this. Would their own country allow such an obviously flawed system? Where it allows non tax paying people to work semi legally? No matter how much you think you contribute to the country, does your own country allow this? Or do they deport people?

How does the visa run do anything of the sort..

And no, most countries would not create and encourage a system that is so backwards.. They create the visa classes they want, for tourist or resident visas, create clear definitions and consistent rules.. And allow people with wealth far above locals, who are unlikely to be a burden on the state, an actual path to citizenship. They of course allow people who have the right to work, to do so in any profession, and allow ownership of land etc for anyone.

Umm how many foreigners and 'teachers' do this? They do their visa runs while working.

You're right, this country doesn't have a proper differentiation of visas nor consistent rules. Hopefully after this, they will change and improve the system. Until that happens, it still shouldn't allow 'tourists' to stay as long as they want and work. Get a work permit. Get a work visa.

So use labor law, to control labor violations..

Dont try to use visa restrictions to control a different issue..

No one is saying that people should be allowed to work on tourist visas, some of us are saying, that tourist visas, were an essential gateway to becoming legal long stayers.

[LivinLOS]

they forgot the kind of people, not aged 50, who sold their home & business , have wife & children and don't need to work ... aren't that quality long stayers? as they have EVERYTHING to lose

Marriage visa.. Child support (legal guardian) visa.. Elite card..

People already here and set up, if they have some small finances, do seem ok.. Its the people trying to come and set up, testing the waters, who will now find Thailand far less friendly a place to establish themselves in a way that allows them to be a contributor.

[John1thru10]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Easier said than done mate. Unfortunately, it's not as black and white as that - not every foreigner who works here is, or aspires to be a teacher. How do you propose freelance programmers, for example, or YouTubers who work alone get a work permit? I'm sure there are many people who work online, and get contracts from abroad, want to work legally and pay taxes, but are simply unable to due to the archaic labour laws which don't have a place in the digital age. What about the jeweller, the designer, the artist, the entrepreneur or any other of the myriad freelance professions that require a currently unobtainable work permit, for whom starting a company (which they can't even fully own), renting an office and employing several Thai staff before they can employ themselves is just not a viable option? I'd love to hear your suggestions.

Here's hoping, as the article suggests, that the immigration laws will swing the other way too, and make it much simpler for these guys. It'll not only benefit them, but Thailand too.

You state this well. This is an obvious difficulty for any modern thinking person under the age of 50 - but most commenters here seem very angry in refusing to recognize possibilities outside of the extremes. One is either a) retired, b ) a corporate desk jocky, c) incredibly wealthy...or d) a shiftless bum / criminal who needs to be thrown out of Thailand immedtiately. There's no talkng to them, as for some reason they are determined to see it this way.

Myself, I'm an artist of some international success, and work online (at home, wherever that is). And while I can usually support myself (some months harder than other, it's normal), I'm not wealthy 'elite' status either, and I don't have millions of baht. That hardly means someone is a criminal. I've never taken (or would take) a job away from a Thai person, and all I do is pay for everything: pay for an apartment, pay the bills, pay the apartment staff and the people all over the neighborhood. That's not a complaint, and I take the responsibility very seriously. I'm not saying my money is 'needed' by Thailand either - but I'm not mooching at all. I never understand how that is called 'taking advantage' the way they repeat here every day. I don't even drink or go to bars, so what's this description of a shiftles, flip flop wearing, bum about? I sit in my apartment and work every day, and go out for about an hour to say say hello to people and buy food. Watch out for the big criminal, huh?

I truly love Thailand, and it's people. But...as you've said, the definitions of employment, and the options presented (retired or super rich), are truly archaic and don't apply to a large percentage of people today. And to compound it, now that the government is casting anyone outside of retirement/expensive options as 'working illegally', and commenters here being so enraged all the time, this adds unnecessary heartache to the equation. I know how hard I work, and I know how much I value the people around me here, and do the right thing. But, I am just a 'criminal' on this board.

Edited July 23, 2014 by John1thru10

[TVGerry]

Fact of the matter is, a whole lot of foreigners have been taking advantage of this visa run thing for years. These people should ask themselves this. Would their own country allow such an obviously flawed system? Where it allows non tax paying people to work semi legally? No matter how much you think you contribute to the country, does your own country allow this? Or do they deport people?

How does the visa run do anything of the sort..

And no, most countries would not create and encourage a system that is so backwards.. They create the visa classes they want, for tourist or resident visas, create clear definitions and consistent rules.. And allow people with wealth far above locals, who are unlikely to be a burden on the state, an actual path to citizenship. They of course allow people who have the right to work, to do so in any profession, and allow ownership of land etc for anyone.

Umm how many foreigners and 'teachers' do this? They do their visa runs while working.

You're right, this country doesn't have a proper differentiation of visas nor consistent rules. Hopefully after this, they will change and improve the system. Until that happens, it still shouldn't allow 'tourists' to stay as long as they want and work. Get a work permit. Get a work visa.

So use labor law, to control labor violations..

Dont try to use visa restrictions to control a different issue..

No one is saying that people should be allowed to work on tourist visas, some of us are saying, that tourist visas, were an essential gateway to becoming legal long stayers.

How do you use labor laws to control labor violations when these people are working under the table? Like it or not, one thing IS linked to the other. While they need to reform the visa system for legitimate long time stayers, right now, they are doing the right thing. Tourist visa is for tourists. Staying for years on a tourist visa is ridiculous.

[JLCrab]

they forgot the kind of people, not aged 50, who sold their home & business , have wife & children and don't need to work ... aren't that quality long stayers? as they have EVERYTHING to lose

Why would you say that they have forgot someone under age 50 with a wife and children * ? They maybe have forgot or excluded somebody without a wife and children. Sometimes rather than saying "Don't they realize ...?" it is a matter of social policy taking precedence over economic policy.

* Police Order 777/2551 2.19 Family Member of Thai Spouse or Children

To the 'modern thinking person 'in the post above: The Thai government has as its foreign investment / working-in-Thailand policy the employment of young Thai university graduates many of whom studied the visual / graphic arts. Having someone stay here to work independently in that arena with no direct advantage to such Thai persons does not seem to fit that current objective.

Edited July 23, 2014 by JLCrab

[Soutpeel]

Dear Samran,

Please share with us how your American webdesigner friend did set up his company, may I remind you the conditions 2 million baht capital (not bad for a webdesigner) and employing 4 Thais and do not tell me he is just paying their social security because that is of course illegal and we are all agains that aren't we?

The title is "Opinion" and as someone who was transferred here by my employer, and I would prefer many other places. I find that even before the crack down and this was several years ago. From the start, showing up at the Thai embassy with a checklist from my Thai employer, then being told the stack of paper was not enough, getting more paper and then told my wife also needs to be present, to get the visa. Then still not enough paper. It gave a sour taste of things to come once I moved here. But, since then, our HR people do most everything for us and there is no real hassle except for the expected city traffic, pollution and much of the same other unpleasent 3rd world things about. But my opinion, place is not so bad if you make it work for you.

The end of the long over staying back packer or ferral vagrant? I don't think I will notice, nor will any of my Thai neighbours. It will put a cottage industry of sorts out of business that has been running these "unwanted" back and forth for years. And they will just settle in a more friendly nation, the Bht200-300/night hostel style or just cheap end of tourism will go out of business, but that is of no concern I suppose.

I expect the thinning crowds in what was once bustling Khao San Road and Soi Buakaow will likley improve the traffic, so I will not have to worry about running over another old falang in a Chang singlet. Hate it when my wing mirror gets damaged by those barefoot old drunks!

With the new heavy hand, will it really lose that charm that is the reason so many actually do come here?

Test of Bernoulli's theorem is in the works and my slightly educated guess is that there will still be at least 50% below the standard they are hoping to attract. Anyone care to wager?

Yeah, me.

I reckon the impact will be minimal from an economic perspective.

Backpackers - they are here generally on their way through to somewhere else's. Poms and other assorted euros to Australia and New Zealand on working holiday visas. Antipodeans the other way, to do the same thing. The occasional Aussie who desired to work in Thailand can get a working holiday visa. No impact.

Retirees - no impact, a good enough visa exists for them.

Transferees - same as above

Cyber nomads. If they want to stay here they'll have to go legal. It isn't impossible. A web designer guy I use, American, has a proper set up here. If he can do it, so can others. Impact - legit businesses established. Company and income tax actually paid in Thailand. No bad thing.

English teachers - ditto. Schools are going to learn quite quickly that they'll lose a teacher every 30 days unless they set them up with the right papers. Which includes needing to pay them a proper salary. Can only be a positive. Fees might have to go up for students though. Again, no bad thing.

Offshore workers - they aren't out and in the same day. No impact.

I retired young - Sorry fellas. Thailand wants you to contribute. If you aren't willing to, there isn't much room for you unless you sign up to the elite card and put you money where your cyber mouths are.

So they are my thoughts.

If the guy is married to a Thai the requirmeents are halved, therefore he could employ his wife and a maid and its only cost him THB 1.0 million to set up the company

[Boatfreak]

So you do not qualify on what you can do for the country intellectually or financially but with whom you share the bed with. When I mentionned Special Skills permit I did not mean those types of skills

Dear Samran,

Please share with us how your American webdesigner friend did set up his company, may I remind you the conditions 2 million baht capital (not bad for a webdesigner) and employing 4 Thais and do not tell me he is just paying their social security because that is of course illegal and we are all agains that aren't we?

The title is "Opinion" and as someone who was transferred here by my employer, and I would prefer many other places. I find that even before the crack down and this was several years ago. From the start, showing up at the Thai embassy with a checklist from my Thai employer, then being told the stack of paper was not enough, getting more paper and then told my wife also needs to be present, to get the visa. Then still not enough paper. It gave a sour taste of things to come once I moved here. But, since then, our HR people do most everything for us and there is no real hassle except for the expected city traffic, pollution and much of the same other unpleasent 3rd world things about. But my opinion, place is not so bad if you make it work for you.

The end of the long over staying back packer or ferral vagrant? I don't think I will notice, nor will any of my Thai neighbours. It will put a cottage industry of sorts out of business that has been running these "unwanted" back and forth for years. And they will just settle in a more friendly nation, the Bht200-300/night hostel style or just cheap end of tourism will go out of business, but that is of no concern I suppose.

I expect the thinning crowds in what was once bustling Khao San Road and Soi Buakaow will likley improve the traffic, so I will not have to worry about running over another old falang in a Chang singlet. Hate it when my wing mirror gets damaged by those barefoot old drunks!

With the new heavy hand, will it really lose that charm that is the reason so many actually do come here?

Test of Bernoulli's theorem is in the works and my slightly educated guess is that there will still be at least 50% below the standard they are hoping to attract. Anyone care to wager?

Yeah, me.

I reckon the impact will be minimal from an economic perspective.

Backpackers - they are here generally on their way through to somewhere else's. Poms and other assorted euros to Australia and New Zealand on working holiday visas. Antipodeans the other way, to do the same thing. The occasional Aussie who desired to work in Thailand can get a working holiday visa. No impact.

Retirees - no impact, a good enough visa exists for them.

Transferees - same as above

Cyber nomads. If they want to stay here they'll have to go legal. It isn't impossible. A web designer guy I use, American, has a proper set up here. If he can do it, so can others. Impact - legit businesses established. Company and income tax actually paid in Thailand. No bad thing.

English teachers - ditto. Schools are going to learn quite quickly that they'll lose a teacher every 30 days unless they set them up with the right papers. Which includes needing to pay them a proper salary. Can only be a positive. Fees might have to go up for students though. Again, no bad thing.

Offshore workers - they aren't out and in the same day. No impact.

I retired young - Sorry fellas. Thailand wants you to contribute. If you aren't willing to, there isn't much room for you unless you sign up to the elite card and put you money where your cyber mouths are.

So they are my thoughts.

If the guy is married to a Thai the requirmeents are halved, therefore he could employ his wife and a maid and its only cost him THB 1.0 million to set up the company

[Jonmarleesco]

'... particularity here in Phuket, there has been an increase in crimes committed by foreigners ...' Heaven forbid that Thais should be anything but law abiding citizens.

But while foreign visitors - and residents - might be viewed by many Thais as gold mines, commodities they are not, 'higher quality', or otherwise.

[JLCrab]

Per 'special skills permit' see 777/2551 2.16 extension re: 'Ocean vessels'

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf

[bangkoklasse]

they forgot the kind of people, not aged 50, who sold their home & business , have wife & children and don't need to work ... aren't that quality long stayers? as they have EVERYTHING to lose

They didn't forgot those people. But Thailand don't like those people to live here unless they are married with a Thai, have a Thai child, working, investing, study or spend some money for the expensiv visas

Edited July 24, 2014 by bangkoklasse

[spidermike007]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Well, that is fine for those that are working here. But, what about someone who is here for an extended period, and is semi retired, but under 50 years old. What suggestion do you have for them? The obvious one is a dual entry 4 to 6 month visa, from their home country. But, what if they are staying longer than that, spending lots of money here, and creating problems for nobody? That is the kind of area that needs to be addressed.

[JLCrab]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Well, that is fine for those that are working here. But, what about someone who is here for an extended period, and is semi retired, but under 50 years old. What suggestion do you have for them? The obvious one is a dual entry 4 to 6 month visa, from their home country. But, what if they are staying longer than that, spending lots of money here, and creating problems for nobody? That is the kind of area that needs to be addressed.

Are you suggesting that any country has some binding obligation to provide such persons with a means for long-term stay?

[spidermike007]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Well, that is fine for those that are working here. But, what about someone who is here for an extended period, and is semi retired, but under 50 years old. What suggestion do you have for them? The obvious one is a dual entry 4 to 6 month visa, from their home country. But, what if they are staying longer than that, spending lots of money here, and creating problems for nobody? That is the kind of area that needs to be addressed.

Are you suggesting that any country has some binding obligation to provide such persons with a means for long-term stay?

Of course not. Thailand is under no obligation whatsoever. But, I am suggesting that at this difficult time in Thailand's history, reforming visa policy and making things easier, for those who intend to live here, or stay long term, with the means to do so, is a wise idea. To do the opposite, as it currently being done, seems foolish, and lacking in vision. Long term foreigners support the nation. The govt. can be as choosy as they want. As long as he does not have a criminal background, and has the means to support himself, why not? What is the harm? Why not support all the local people who benefit from this policy?

[JLCrab]

If Thailand wants to institute a new class of Visa and Immigration / extension of stay that is up to them. You say it seems foolish and shows a lack of vision. Maybe so. But maybe they have also decided that -- other than providing an extension of stay by reason of Investment in the current Police Order -- as a matter of social policy they do not wish to accommodate such persons and it is not just a matter of overlooking the economic benefit of such persons.

Edited July 24, 2014 by JLCrab

[LivinLOS]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Well, that is fine for those that are working here. But, what about someone who is here for an extended period, and is semi retired, but under 50 years old. What suggestion do you have for them? The obvious one is a dual entry 4 to 6 month visa, from their home country. But, what if they are staying longer than that, spending lots of money here, and creating problems for nobody? That is the kind of area that needs to be addressed.

And with the elite card, they pretty much have..

Sure you can say I want to pay less.. Or I dont know about 5 years.. But it is a simple foolproof system, and not so expensive.. Anyone spending "lots of money here" wont have a problem with it.. Those who claim to be spending "lots of money" but in reality are getting by on 60 or 80k a month.. Well thats not the kind of spender they seem to have aimed for.

[LivinLOS]

So use labor law, to control labor violations..

Dont try to use visa restrictions to control a different issue..

No one is saying that people should be allowed to work on tourist visas, some of us are saying, that tourist visas, were an essential gateway to becoming legal long stayers.

How do you use labor laws to control labor violations when these people are working under the table? Like it or not, one thing IS linked to the other. While they need to reform the visa system for legitimate long time stayers, right now, they are doing the right thing. Tourist visa is for tourists. Staying for years on a tourist visa is ridiculous.

The biggest issue are the very visible abusers..

Timeshare touts on the streets of Phuket (but backed up by police and local politicians) would take minutes to find.. As would the many illegal divers and tour people.. These are the frontline 'face' of the problem. The ones I suspect that pissing the locals off by their blatant abuses.

Want to target the tourist visa abusers who work online ? Go to the co-working spaces.. Look at the many many 'digital nomad' facebook groups and forums..

Its not that hard to control the bulk of the blatant abusers.. a lot easier in fact than changing immigration policy every few weeks which ends up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Similarly, it would be fairly simple either adjust or create a longer extension for long stay tourism based on showing clear inward remittances to the country.. Similar like how the ED language have 90 day extensions, simply show a high level of cash turnover coming in. Set a number of say 120 or 150k a month of cash sent into Thailand monthly and spent (double 'old' retirement to 130 which is in turn double marriage makes some sense) and all these minted perma tourists and jet setters can show they really are supporting the Thai economy as they so claim.

[JLCrab]

... long stay tourism based on showing clear inward remittances to the country.

How would they then be able to determine that the source of such inward remittances were from clear outward remittances or remittances earned while working in Thailand?

Set a number of say ... say 10 million in a government bond account for a 10 -30 year extension -- they wouldn't even have to tie up their own money they could just borrow on their line of credit from their banker in Zurich.

Edited July 24, 2014 by JLCrab

[wilcopops]

Fact of the matter is, a whole lot of foreigners have been taking advantage of this visa run thing for years. These people should ask themselves this. Would their own country allow such an obviously flawed system? Where it allows non tax paying people to work semi legally? No matter how much you think you contribute to the country, does your own country allow this? Or do they deport people?

These comments lead me to think that this poster really hasn't got a handle on the real situation.

Citing another country is tangential to the argument and has no real baring on the problem. He/she is also making nebulous assumptions about the nature of foreigners staying in Thailand and their numbers and demographics.

Unfortunately it IS in fact very difficult to gauge this as the government, whilst firing out loads of dictums, has released very little real info as WHY they are taking these measures and detailing their aims goals or targets.

[Merryman88]

In recent years, particularity here in Phuket, there has been an increase in crimes committed by foreigners, often in dire financial straits. That kind of visitor with no visible means of support will now find Thailand less “the Land of Smiles” and more the land of “Sort your life out, instead of exporting your problems and yourself here.

And there have also been crimes committed against foreign expats that the police were not interested in resolving.

Works both ways I'm afraid...

Perhaps if justice in Thailand was guided by Equality and not one law for the Thais and one law for the Foreigners, Thailand will become a safe haven and the quality of their Ex Pats would improve but until that time if it ever arrives they must continue to put up with continuing to have the Worlds Dross arriving here, to Live, Thailand gets what they deserve, I've been here on and off for nearly six years when I first came it was a land of smiles. But I am afraid that is not so any longer - I don't feel welcome anymore

[JLCrab]

A military junta that has declared itself to be in control until late 2015 and operates under martial law most likely doesn't give a sh-t whether the foreign population in Thailand understands how it intends to operate or all its long-term aims and goals.