Flight MH17 possibly shot by mistake

[webfact]

Flight MH17 possibly shot by mistake

WASHINGTON - Malaysian flight MH17 may have been shot down by "mistake" by ill-trained pro-Russian separatists, US intelligence officials said Tuesday, while dismissing Moscow's accounts of the incident.

Evidence gathered so far suggests separatists launched the SA-11 surface-to-air missile that blew up the Malaysian airliner, but it remains unclear "who pulled the trigger" and why, said a senior intelligence official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

"The most plausible explanation was that it was a mistake," and that the missile was fired by "an ill-trained crew" using a system that requires some skill and training, the official said.

The intelligence official cited previous incidents over the years in which both Russian and US forces have mistakenly shot down civilian airliners.

A Korean airliner was downed by a Soviet fighter jet in 1983 and US naval forces mistakenly shot down an Iranian civilian passenger plane in 1988.
 
"We've all seen mistakes in the past," the official told reporters.

US satellite and other "technical" intelligence confirmed the airliner with 298 people on board was hit by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile from an area controlled by the pro-Russian rebels.

Full story: http://www.enca.com/shootdown-flight-mh17-may-have-been-mistake

-- eNCA 2014-07-23

[eeworldwide]

Pretty bloomin' awful "mistake" - but very well aimed.

[Crossy]

Excellent images of the crash site by Jeroen Akkermans (no gore) https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/page1/

[livingthedream]

Interesting article from the other side

Claims about MH17 that MSM fails to question
http://rt.com/news/174380-crash-issues-ignored-media/


Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[FracturedRabbit]

Where is the US evidence that separatists carried out the attack....? The usual misinformation and lies:

http://youtu.be/oQRvINebeok

[Chicog]

Interesting article from the other side

Claims about MH17 that MSM fails to question
http://rt.com/news/174380-crash-issues-ignored-media/


Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

What's interesting about that? Just another obfuscation piece.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Travel2003]

Of course it was a mistake, but nevertheless a disaster, and a disgusting try of cover up after.

 

[doctorproc156]

Where is the US evidence that separatists carried out the attack....? The usual misinformation and lies:

http://youtu.be/oQRvINebeok

 

Who needs the NSA and the CIA when you have facebook screenshots and youtube videos. How pathetic...

[kamahele]

Of course they shot the commercial airliner down by mistake but they still killed almost 300 innocent people.

[transam]

Of course they shot the commercial airliner down by mistake but they still killed almost 300 innocent people.

 

Weeeeeeeeell, seems folk give sophisticated weapons to numnuts..............

[BudRight]

Mistake? Tell that to the victims' families.

[khunken]

 

Of course they shot the commercial airliner down by mistake but they still killed almost 300 innocent people.

 

Weeeeeeeeell, seems folk give sophisticated weapons to numnuts..............

 

 

Or more likely the 'numnuts' forcibly acquired the launcher from Ukraine military even worse 'numnuts'.
 

[phazey]

I did find (a few days ago) a SAM launcher simulator - not a BUK but similar. It's entirely easy for an inexperienced person to lock on to a target and launch ordinance. However, the same inexperienced operator will also in no doubt not be able identify any targets - presumably under pressure from superiors....

 

The FDR and CVR data will be interesting, once it's retrieved .........

[jacko45k]

Possibly shot by mistake..........

 

 

[Krataiboy]

Inept Russian separatists may have accidentally shot down the plane, mistaking it for one of the Ukraine warplanes which has been bombing the hell out civilians in separatist-held areas. If so, it was a dreadful accident, but certainly not the deliberate "terrorist" act condemned by the Ukraine's unelected, fascist, anti-semitic puppet president.

 

But what on earth was the Malaysian airliner doing flying over the warzone, when ten previous flights - including a Thai Airways flight - had all been told to take a much safer route south of the battlefield. Why, according to independent civil aviation experts, was it accompanied for a while by Ukraine air force fighter jets?

 

There are other questions which need answers before anyone (other than the US and the NATO powers) rush to judgement. Why have the Kiev air traffic controllers still not released the relevant controller's conversations with the plane after five days - in contrast to the much criticised separatists who far from trying to hide evidence, have already handed over the black boxes from the downed airliner to Britain for expert analysis.

 

Why has the US, unlike Russia, failed to produce any radar tracking charts or other concrete intelligence evidence to support its allegations that a separatist missile downed the plane-  other than a bizarre YouTube video allegedly involving separatists admitting responsibility. The time stamp on the video predates the actual event!

 

Time will tell who is actually responsible for this disaster, but it is increasingly clear that the US and the Western alliance is out to "get" Putin at any price, despite his connection to the crime being at best tenuous. Maybe he should not have cozied up to the Chinese and BRIT countries for mutually beneficial energy deals in their own currencies, thus undermining further the security of the teetering greenback.

 

We all remember the ultimate price paid by Col Gaddaffi and Sadam Hussein for their flirtation with a gold dinar as a possible alternative to the dominant petro-dollar. . .  Keep your head down, Vladimir!

 

 

 

[Barin]

 

The intelligence official cited previous incidents over the years in which both Russian and US forces have mistakenly shot down civilian airliners.

A Korean airliner was downed by a Soviet fighter jet in 1983 and US naval forces mistakenly shot down an Iranian civilian passenger plane in 1988.
 
"We've all seen mistakes in the past," the official told reporters.
 

 

As far as I can remember  in 1983 the Korean airliner was not downed "by mistake".

 

This happened at the time of Cold War.

 

The pilot received the order from the Soviet air force command center to shoot down the airplane because it penetrated very deeply into the Russian air space and was not replying to radio calls made by the Soviet fighter requesting identification information in compliance with International Air Traffic Regulations.

 

Probably at that time it was not clear whether it was a military airplane or a passenger airliner.

 

That was a lesson to the pilots all over the world to be extremely careful while flying near the boundaries of the Soviet air space.

[phazey]

 

 

The intelligence official cited previous incidents over the years in which both Russian and US forces have mistakenly shot down civilian airliners.

A Korean airliner was downed by a Soviet fighter jet in 1983 and US naval forces mistakenly shot down an Iranian civilian passenger plane in 1988.
 
"We've all seen mistakes in the past," the official told reporters.
 

 

As far as I can remember  in 1983 the Korean airliner was not downed "by mistake".

 

This happened at the time of Cold War.

 

The pilot received the order from the Soviet air force command center to shoot down the airplane because it penetrated very deeply into the Russian air space and was not replying to radio calls made by the Soviet fighter requesting identification information in compliance with International Air Traffic Regulations.

 

Probably at that time it was not clear whether it was a military airplane or a passenger airliner.

 

That was a lesson to the pilots all over the world to be extremely careful while flying near the boundaries of the Soviet air space.

 

And lets not forget Iran Air Flight 655

[Tao Diver]

I did find (a few days ago) a SAM launcher simulator - not a BUK but similar. It's entirely easy for an inexperienced person to lock on to a target and launch ordinance. However, the same inexperienced operator will also in no doubt not be able identify any targets - presumably under pressure from superiors....

 

The FDR and CVR data will be interesting, once it's retrieved .........

 

 

If it was shot down as alleged by a SAM missile then the FDR and CVR will tell the investigators very little. They will both simply stop suddenly. If it was shot down by the rebels using a BUK system then the rebels should still have possession of it. Where is it ? If the rebels don't have it then it would suggest that it was shipped in with a crew from Russia and is now back there. 

America whilst it is spitting rhetoric and rattling their sabres needs to remember that they also shot down a passenger jet by accident not so long ago. 

[lovetotravel]

Interesting article from the other side

Claims about MH17 that MSM fails to question
http://rt.com/news/174380-crash-issues-ignored-media/


Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

 

There are many unsubstantiated claims.  But one that is factual is where the missile was launched and it trajectory.  That's been determined.  As well as Russian support for the Ukraine rebels.  Nothing 100% proven yet, but if I was in Vegas, I know where I'd put my money.

 

Gotta love RT. Hardly an unbiased news source:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

 

The creation of Russia Today was a part of a larger PR effort by the Russian government intended to improve the image of Russia abroad.^[8] RT was conceived by former media minister Mikhail Lesin,^[9] and Vladimir Putin's press spokesperson Aleksei Gromov.^[10]At the time of RT's founding, RIA Novosti director Svetlana Mironyuk stated: "Unfortunately, at the level of mass consciousness in the West, Russia is associated with three words: communism, snow and poverty," and added "We would like to present a more complete picture of life in our country."^[9] It is registered as an autonomous nonprofit organization^[11][12] funded by the federal budget of Russiathrough the Federal Agency on Press and Mass Communications of the Russian Federation.^[13][14]

 

[capcc76]

Some nutters out there want to blame US for anything and everything: MH370, MH17, chemical attacks in Syria, violence in Lybia, unrest in Egypt, ISIS . . . What's next? Ebola in Africa, bubonic plaque outbreak in China, global warming, giant killer hornets, bigfoot coverup??? Mental illness pervades.

[sanuk711]

Some nutters out there want to blame US for anything and everything: MH370, MH17, chemical attacks in Syria, violence in Lybia, unrest in Egypt, ISIS . . . What's next? Ebola in Africa, bubonic plaque outbreak in China, global warming, giant killer hornets, bigfoot coverup??? Mental illness pervades.

 

Mod's......Do save us from these paranoid American posts pleeeeaaaase.............

Edited July 23, 2014 by sanuk711

[VINCENT2012]

what a new!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   next post please

[F430murci]

I did find (a few days ago) a SAM launcher simulator - not a BUK but similar. It's entirely easy for an inexperienced person to lock on to a target and launch ordinance. However, the same inexperienced operator will also in no doubt not be able identify any targets - presumably under pressure from superiors....
 
The FDR and CVR data will be interesting, once it's retrieved .........

 
 
If it was shot down as alleged by a SAM missile then the FDR and CVR will tell the investigators very little. They will both simply stop suddenly. If it was shot down by the rebels using a BUK system then the rebels should still have possession of it. Where is it ? If the rebels don't have it then it would suggest that it was shipped in with a crew from Russia and is now back there. 
America whilst it is spitting rhetoric and rattling their sabres needs to remember that they also shot down a passenger jet by accident not so long ago. 

And US stepped up and paid for its mistake. So US and world cannot condemn and criticize a horrible incident that happened last week because of a horrible accident how long ago? More nutter info war mentality.

Russia is simply an alternate universe in thought process and propaganda. I see it and get it due to wife and in-laws being Russian. Russian pride is deep and strong and Russians personalize matters such as this too strongly to step back and view the matter objectively. Their concern regarding world view and the possibility that they do have some culpability causes them to be defensive to the point of almost being irrational and illogical.

This entire Ukraine mess is deeply troubling on Russians on so many levels and it causes considerable denial. When this happened, I could sense a collective "oh my God, not again" type if reaction.

I get that if you are Russian, but if not Russian you have very little or no excuse.

[Jonmarleesco]

'"We've all seen mistakes in the past,"...' Definitely a source of comfort to the grieving relatives.

[F430murci]

'"We've all seen mistakes in the past,"...' Definitely a source of comfort to the grieving relatives.

I doubt grieving relatives are as concerned about whether an accident or intentional act as many obsessive types on here with no dog in the fight.

[BeyondME]

Something of this magnitude is *never* a mistake. And the presstitute lapdog media (along with crony politicians in the U.K. and Australia) has been selling Washington's lie from the moment this atrocity took place. In fact, there is quite solid evidence (a prepared video whose code shows it was ready *before* the incident) that this is another false flag act orchestrated by Washington to drag Russia into the Ukrainian conflict. The Ukrainians lied about not having Buks in the region and the Americans will not provide any evidence from satellites that were directly above the plane at the time of the explosion.

 

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/21/guilt-insinuation-paul-craig-roberts/

 

People love to spread around 'information', parroting what all the others are saying, without ever needing any shred of evidence.

 

A mistake? Please. 

 

I'm not a fan of Putin, but he's not stupid. That's why it's hard to get him involved in a conflict that could get oil in the hands of the greedy American establishment. False flag. Wouldn't be the first time in history.

[F430murci]

Some nutters out there want to blame US for anything and everything: MH370, MH17, chemical attacks in Syria, violence in Lybia, unrest in Egypt, ISIS . . . What's next? Ebola in Africa, bubonic plaque outbreak in China, global warming, giant killer hornets, bigfoot coverup??? Mental illness pervades.

 
Mod's......Do save us from these paranoid American posts pleeeeaaaase.............

Who is thinking or speaking more rationally about this incident?

--------

Russians have many theories about the MH17 crash. One involves fake dead people.

. . .

Khadija Gamzatova, 50, heard on the news that Vladimir Putins plane crossed flight paths with the Malaysian jet at one point and thus believes that Ukrainian government troops shot down the jet, thinking it was the Russian presidents plane.

They were flying close to one another, said Gamzatova, sitting on a park bench in central Moscow and gesturing to show just how close she believed the planes had been. Ukrainian forces wanted to shoot down our plane, but this is what they got.

-------

or

---------

Tattoo artist Sergey S. had a different theory. A whole lot of witnesses on the Internet shot video and said the corpses werent natural, that the people died a long time before [the plane crashed], said the 45-year-old, declining to give his last name and emphatically expressing reservations that the reporter to whom he was speaking might be an American spy

---------

or

----------

Various television outlets led their broadcasts with another idea: that a Ukrainian flight dispatcher intentionally steered the jet into a war zone to get shot down. Vitaly Trubin, 24, heard one such report on Russia 24.

Why would the dispatcher do that?" Trubin asked. "Because the [Ukrainian] government told him to. Because the SBU [Ukrainian Security Service] told him to.

---------

or

----------

According to the people who collected the corpses, most of the corpses were not fresh people died several days ago, Girkin said, according to the page. Many of the corpses, he claimed, showed no sign of blood.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/russians-have-many-theories-about-the-mh17-crash-one-involves-fake-dead-people/2014/07/22/9a1c5ec9-11b6-4384-b585-53fff62e5779_story.html

[Loptr]

 

 

Some nutters out there want to blame US for anything and everything: MH370, MH17, chemical attacks in Syria, violence in Lybia, unrest in Egypt, ISIS . . . What's next? Ebola in Africa, bubonic plaque outbreak in China, global warming, giant killer hornets, bigfoot coverup??? Mental illness pervades.

 
Mod's......Do save us from these paranoid American posts pleeeeaaaase.............

Who is thinking or speaking more rationally about this incident?

--------

Russians have many theories about the MH17 crash. One involves fake dead people.

. . .

Khadija Gamzatova, 50, heard on the news that Vladimir Putins plane crossed flight paths with the Malaysian jet at one point and thus believes that Ukrainian government troops shot down the jet, thinking it was the Russian presidents plane.

They were flying close to one another, said Gamzatova, sitting on a park bench in central Moscow and gesturing to show just how close she believed the planes had been. Ukrainian forces wanted to shoot down our plane, but this is what they got.

-------

or

---------

Tattoo artist Sergey S. had a different theory. A whole lot of witnesses on the Internet shot video and said the corpses werent natural, that the people died a long time before [the plane crashed], said the 45-year-old, declining to give his last name and emphatically expressing reservations that the reporter to whom he was speaking might be an American spy

---------

or

----------

Various television outlets led their broadcasts with another idea: that a Ukrainian flight dispatcher intentionally steered the jet into a war zone to get shot down. Vitaly Trubin, 24, heard one such report on Russia 24.

Why would the dispatcher do that?" Trubin asked. "Because the [Ukrainian] government told him to. Because the SBU [Ukrainian Security Service] told him to.

---------

or

----------

According to the people who collected the corpses, most of the corpses were not fresh people died several days ago, Girkin said, according to the page. Many of the corpses, he claimed, showed no sign of blood.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/russians-have-many-theories-about-the-mh17-crash-one-involves-fake-dead-people/2014/07/22/9a1c5ec9-11b6-4384-b585-53fff62e5779_story.html

 

 

So are you suggesting that the airplane and passengers from MH-370 were switched with MH-17?  And you've have the nerve to call me a conspiracy theorist in the past? 

[F430murci]

 

 

Some nutters out there want to blame US for anything and everything: MH370, MH17, chemical attacks in Syria, violence in Lybia, unrest in Egypt, ISIS . . . What's next? Ebola in Africa, bubonic plaque outbreak in China, global warming, giant killer hornets, bigfoot coverup??? Mental illness pervades.

 
Mod's......Do save us from these paranoid American posts pleeeeaaaase.............

Who is thinking or speaking more rationally about this incident?

--------

Russians have many theories about the MH17 crash. One involves fake dead people.

. . .

Khadija Gamzatova, 50, heard on the news that Vladimir Putins plane crossed flight paths with the Malaysian jet at one point and thus believes that Ukrainian government troops shot down the jet, thinking it was the Russian presidents plane.

They were flying close to one another, said Gamzatova, sitting on a park bench in central Moscow and gesturing to show just how close she believed the planes had been. Ukrainian forces wanted to shoot down our plane, but this is what they got.

-------

or

---------

Tattoo artist Sergey S. had a different theory. A whole lot of witnesses on the Internet shot video and said the corpses werent natural, that the people died a long time before [the plane crashed], said the 45-year-old, declining to give his last name and emphatically expressing reservations that the reporter to whom he was speaking might be an American spy

---------

or

----------

Various television outlets led their broadcasts with another idea: that a Ukrainian flight dispatcher intentionally steered the jet into a war zone to get shot down. Vitaly Trubin, 24, heard one such report on Russia 24.

Why would the dispatcher do that?" Trubin asked. "Because the [Ukrainian] government told him to. Because the SBU [Ukrainian Security Service] told him to.

---------

or

----------

According to the people who collected the corpses, most of the corpses were not fresh people died several days ago, Girkin said, according to the page. Many of the corpses, he claimed, showed no sign of blood.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/russians-have-many-theories-about-the-mh17-crash-one-involves-fake-dead-people/2014/07/22/9a1c5ec9-11b6-4384-b585-53fff62e5779_story.html
 

 
So are you suggesting that the airplane and passengers from MH-370 were switched with MH-17?  And you've have the nerve to call me a conspiracy theorist in the past? 

??? Quiet the contrary. I was pointing out how Russian denial leads to very irrational thought processes. Interesting to see how your mind processes the article I quoted in a completely different and unintended manner.

[F430murci]

Something of this magnitude is *never* a mistake. And the presstitute lapdog media (along with crony politicians in the U.K. and Australia) has been selling Washington's lie from the moment this atrocity took place. In fact, there is quite solid evidence (a prepared video whose code shows it was ready *before* the incident) that this is another false flag act orchestrated by Washington to drag Russia into the Ukrainian conflict. The Ukrainians lied about not having Buks in the region and the Americans will not provide any evidence from satellites that were directly above the plane at the time of the explosion.
 
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/21/guilt-insinuation-paul-craig-roberts/
 
People love to spread around 'information', parroting what all the others are saying, without ever needing any shred of evidence.
 
A mistake? Please. 
 
I'm not a fan of Putin, but he's not stupid. That's why it's hard to get him involved in a conflict that could get oil in the hands of the greedy American establishment. False flag. Wouldn't be the first time in history.

Haha, Loptr . . . here is one of your guys. Paul Craig Roberts may actually exceed Alex Jones in terms of nutty or general crackpot!!!