soft fat / non linear weight loss

[robblok]

For some of us weight loss is not linear and comes with big drops in weight after periods of static weight. Doing everything all right eating right and maybe exercising. But still the scales wont budge. I sometimes experience this recently I gained a bit of weight just a few kg's and was not sure if it was muscle or fat (quite hard to say at times). Anyway it prompted me to start going for weight loss to lean up more (if possible). I was going low to real low carb and exercising and eating less as before. For a few weeks it would move a bit and then stick to a weight.

My fat on my belly little as it is was getting softer not as firm as it was. This made me do some research onto the site of Lyle McDonald and others and found that this sometimes happens before a drop in weight. Also softer fat can be good as it means blood can flow through it and because of that the fat can be utilized (burned) if on a energy deficit. Sure enough a drop of 1,5 kg came and stayed off. This might not sound like much but I was lean already so when you have less to loose it comes off harder.

I just put this here for people who don't loose their weight linear and who can hold water so they just don't give up. The explanation given for this (mind you it does not happen to everyone) was that the fat cells after having lost their fat contents (they never disappear just shrink) fill up with water and then after a while just release that water when the body is ready for it.

For a better description of this just go to Lyle McDonald his site and Google for squishy fat.

This is just a bit of information to keep the I am too fat forum going.

[h90]

same same here.....Also big fluctuation +/- 1 kg per day

[h90]

Exercise and diet both are useful tools for losing fat. If we want to lose fat then we must start doing cardio exercise everyday. Running is best exercise for this purpose.

That is simply WRONG......

Cardio is help but no must.....Eating less than you burn is the only must.

[robblok]

Exercise and diet both are useful tools for losing fat. If we want to lose fat then we must start doing cardio exercise everyday. Running is best exercise for this purpose.

That is simply WRONG......

Cardio is help but no must.....Eating less than you burn is the only must.

Correct its far easier to eat less then to burn the same amount doing sports. Then giving running as a good exercise.. its highly damaging for your knees and such.

[h90]

Exercise and diet both are useful tools for losing fat. If we want to lose fat then we must start doing cardio exercise everyday. Running is best exercise for this purpose.

That is simply WRONG......

Cardio is help but no must.....Eating less than you burn is the only must.

Correct its far easier to eat less then to burn the same amount doing sports. Then giving running as a good exercise.. its highly damaging for your knees and such.

To add: running is very problematic, when you are overweight. And even much worse when you start it from zero to maniac in a short time.

If you are lightweight running is good for most (not all) people.

Far less problematic for overweight people is bicycle or swimming, walking. While I have nothing against cardio, I would prefer strength training with diet.

Exactly what bodybuilder do.....No one will look like a bodybuilder over night, but loosing some fat and building some muscle will improve the body shape more than only loosing fat.

[ChrisWen]

robblok, I agree with you about then to burn the same amount doing sports. I think need to change the diet, eliminating foods that are high in carbohydrates. My wife lost weight using detox http://www.kalinka-store.com/catalog/83, you can consider it as an option if you need. She was engaged in swimming, it is very effective for weight loss. I think the doctor gave the correct advice about carbohydrates

[singa-traz]

Exercise and diet both are useful tools for losing fat. If we want to lose fat then we must start doing cardio exercise everyday. Running is best exercise for this purpose.

That is simply WRONG......

Cardio is help but no must.....Eating less than you burn is the only must.

Correct its far easier to eat less then to burn the same amount doing sports. Then giving running as a good exercise.. its highly damaging for your knees and such.

Easier? For some people, they might find it easier to jog one hour than to restrict their diet.

Highly damaging to your knees? You can find many reports that will tell otherwise.

• http://www.clinicalcorrelations.org/?p=6437

What they will point out, is that you should start your running or walking exercices progressively and listen to your body.

And avoid the "Too much, Too fast, Too soon".

Eating less alone ... won't make you fit.

[h90]

Exercise and diet both are useful tools for losing fat. If we want to lose fat then we must start doing cardio exercise everyday. Running is best exercise for this purpose.

That is simply WRONG......

Cardio is help but no must.....Eating less than you burn is the only must.

Correct its far easier to eat less then to burn the same amount doing sports. Then giving running as a good exercise.. its highly damaging for your knees and such.

Easier? For some people, they might find it easier to jog one hour than to restrict their diet.

Highly damaging to your knees? You can find many reports that will tell otherwise.

• http://www.clinicalcorrelations.org/?p=6437

What they will point out, is that you should start your running or walking exercices progressively and listen to your body.

And avoid the "Too much, Too fast, Too soon".

Eating less alone ... won't make you fit.

If you have 120-150 kg jogging is the dead of your knees....(if you have 70 kg and want to have 65 jogging is great.)

At "Won't make you fit" yes but it makes you slimmer. Don't misunderstand me, exercises are of course extreme useful, but not an absolute "must do".

For someone who is very overweight I would recommend swimming, bicycle or even more training with weights or best a mix of all.

[singa-traz]

... cutting the trail ...

What they will point out, is that you should start your running or walking exercices progressively and listen to your body.

And avoid the "Too much, Too fast, Too soon".

Eating less alone ... won't make you fit.

If you have 120-150 kg jogging is the dead of your knees....(if you have 70 kg and want to have 65 jogging is great.)

At "Won't make you fit" yes but it makes you slimmer. Don't misunderstand me, exercises are of course extreme useful, but not an absolute "must do".

For someone who is very overweight I would recommend swimming, bicycle or even more training with weights or best a mix of all.

You are right, at 120+KG running might not be the best idea for exercices... and again, that would depends if it's 120KG of muscle or pure fat.

At 120KG+, you can nevertheless start with walking exercices and at 100KG, you can already do a mix of walking and running, without too much risk.

From an overall health perspective, fitter seems to be better than slimmer, and you get fit with exercices.

Not saying adapting your diet is not required to lose weight, it is, but getting fit should be a higher priority.

[h90]

... cutting the trail ...

What they will point out, is that you should start your running or walking exercices progressively and listen to your body.

And avoid the "Too much, Too fast, Too soon".

Eating less alone ... won't make you fit.

If you have 120-150 kg jogging is the dead of your knees....(if you have 70 kg and want to have 65 jogging is great.)

At "Won't make you fit" yes but it makes you slimmer. Don't misunderstand me, exercises are of course extreme useful, but not an absolute "must do".

For someone who is very overweight I would recommend swimming, bicycle or even more training with weights or best a mix of all.

You are right, at 120+KG running might not be the best idea for exercices... and again, that would depends if it's 120KG of muscle or pure fat.

At 120KG+, you can nevertheless start with walking exercices and at 100KG, you can already do a mix of walking and running, without too much risk.

From an overall health perspective, fitter seems to be better than slimmer, and you get fit with exercices.

Not saying adapting your diet is not required to lose weight, it is, but getting fit should be a higher priority.

Of course everything you say is complete true. I guess a 120 kg pure muscle guy won't search the "I'm too fat" forum :-)))

Walking is usually no problem. But at running you always get the shocks on the knees and consider that someone really fat didn't do anything before and his tendons, joints, bones aren't used to exercise. So there is big risk of overdoing it and pain the knees or lower legs are hard to get rid off. So I would choose something different instead.

Of course fitter seems better. I exercise every day and I like it, but others may really hate it....ask Jingthing......There are enough girls in Thailand who are slim but still fat. Very little muscle as they don't move their body at all.

[robblok]

I am not so sure about the 120 kg muscle or fat making a difference in the strain on your knees. I could be wrong here as I am no expert.

I have nothing against exercise I actually like it (not always) and workout 3-4 times a week and workout hard (more would be counter productive). However controlling your food for 7 days a week gives more results.

But I believe loosing fat should be a combination of exercise and diet.

[h90]

I am not so sure about the 120 kg muscle or fat making a difference in the strain on your knees. I could be wrong here as I am no expert.

I have nothing against exercise I actually like it (not always) and workout 3-4 times a week and workout hard (more would be counter productive). However controlling your food for 7 days a week gives more results.

But I believe loosing fat should be a combination of exercise and diet.

It makes some difference. At 120 kg muscle your knees are used to exercise and the muscle also stabilize the joint.

(it is very unlikely that someone only trained the upper body)

[ocejanic]

Any Cardio-training is low impact/ long duration training. This is an ineffective way of loosing fat. You might loose WEIGHT, but that comprises muscle mass ( the body gets rid of all the muscle mass it doesn't need for endurance running - see the skinny marathon pros.)

To loose FAT, it is true that you need to burn more energy than you take in. And for this to be EFFECTIVE, you need to fight from two ends:

- increase the amount of energy your body burns when at rest. How? The more muscle mass you have, the more energy your body needs to fuel them - even when at rest. For building muscle mass, high impact (= heavy to too heavy to perform) /short duration training is most effective. So e.g. not doing 5 sets of 30 repetitions, but 3 sets of 6-12 reps, so that you can hardly finish the last rep ( muscle fails).

- eat 5 - max 20% less calories than your daily working amount (that is: the amount you burn daily when you consider your activities any other than sleeping. NEVER EAT LESS THAN YOUR "DOING-NOTHING" ENERGY CONSUMPTION, as that will put your body in "starvation-prevention"-mode, and it will store fat even from the tiniest amount of calories you feed it.

So you need to calculate these two calorie figures ( internet is teeming with calculators). Calorie consumption depends on sex, age, height and wheight. then you calculate your being-at-rest burn rate ( for me e.g. : male, 45, 162 pounds, 6.1 ft this is around 1,800 cal/day) and your activity burn rate ( again, for me that's around 2,500 cal/day). So when I eat 2,000 cal/day , I am well above the starvation-mode level and well below (20%) my activity cal consumption.

This way, you will stay healthy, no jojo effect, you build up lean muscle and loose fat the most effective way. workout takes 30-45 minutes daily. ( two days off, no muscle group trained two days in succession, but alternating).

P.S.: You don't need a gym or wheights. Use your body wheight.

[h90]

Any Cardio-training is low impact/ long duration training. This is an ineffective way of loosing fat. You might loose WEIGHT, but that comprises muscle mass ( the body gets rid of all the muscle mass it doesn't need for endurance running - see the skinny marathon pros.)

To loose FAT, it is true that you need to burn more energy than you take in. And for this to be EFFECTIVE, you need to fight from two ends:

- increase the amount of energy your body burns when at rest. How? The more muscle mass you have, the more energy your body needs to fuel them - even when at rest. For building muscle mass, high impact (= heavy to too heavy to perform) /short duration training is most effective. So e.g. not doing 5 sets of 30 repetitions, but 3 sets of 6-12 reps, so that you can hardly finish the last rep ( muscle fails).

- eat 5 - max 20% less calories than your daily working amount (that is: the amount you burn daily when you consider your activities any other than sleeping. NEVER EAT LESS THAN YOUR "DOING-NOTHING" ENERGY CONSUMPTION, as that will put your body in "starvation-prevention"-mode, and it will store fat even from the tiniest amount of calories you feed it.

So you need to calculate these two calorie figures ( internet is teeming with calculators). Calorie consumption depends on sex, age, height and wheight. then you calculate your being-at-rest burn rate ( for me e.g. : male, 45, 162 pounds, 6.1 ft this is around 1,800 cal/day) and your activity burn rate ( again, for me that's around 2,500 cal/day). So when I eat 2,000 cal/day , I am well above the starvation-mode level and well below (20%) my activity cal consumption.

This way, you will stay healthy, no jojo effect, you build up lean muscle and loose fat the most effective way. workout takes 30-45 minutes daily. ( two days off, no muscle group trained two days in succession, but alternating).

P.S.: You don't need a gym or wheights. Use your body wheight.

complete right, but when someone who didn't do any sport before starts with some mild cardio, he'll rather build muscle than loose one. Actually nothing is worse than only sitting and watching TV.....

But of course heavy weight training is better.

With the jojo effect.....A rapid reduction of weight makes it more likely but the reason for it is seeing a diet as short time solution to fix things and afterwards you can eat "normal" again.

I ate only a dinner for a longer time, in the 1000 kcal/day range + heavy training every day, lost weight fast and no jo jo effect, because I don't overate afterwards. It is something you must continue forever to keep slim.

[singa-traz]

Any Cardio-training is low impact/ long duration training. This is an ineffective way of loosing fat. You might loose WEIGHT, but that comprises muscle mass ( the body gets rid of all the muscle mass it doesn't need for endurance running - see the skinny marathon pros.)

...

Muscle is the last source of energy for your body when you run (Glycogene, Fat then Muscle). You have to run long duration (2H+) without proper intake/diet for your body to start this process.

The body fat precentage for pro marathon runners is between 5 to 15% (for male).

So yes, Marathon runners don't look like bodybuilder, it wouldn't be efficient for them ... but they are fare from fat.

To come back to the orignal topic, at some point of time, weight loss might not be very visible on the scale, and it might be best to look at other metrics which are more important from a health perspective: Fitness

[robblok]

Any Cardio-training is low impact/ long duration training. This is an ineffective way of loosing fat. You might loose WEIGHT, but that comprises muscle mass ( the body gets rid of all the muscle mass it doesn't need for endurance running - see the skinny marathon pros.)

...

Muscle is the last source of energy for your body when you run (Glycogene, Fat then Muscle). You have to run long duration (2H+) without proper intake/diet for your body to start this process.

The body fat precentage for pro marathon runners is between 5 to 15% (for male).

So yes, Marathon runners don't look like bodybuilder, it wouldn't be efficient for them ... but they are fare from fat.

To come back to the orignal topic, at some point of time, weight loss might not be very visible on the scale, and it might be best to look at other metrics which are more important from a health perspective: Fitness

I wish it was true about the muscle being the last to go unfortunately that is not the case and does have something to do with diet but not all. Granted for most people this is not a problem but muscular people do notice it when they do a lot of cardio

I now got a fitbit aria scale that also measures my fat percentage .. According to the scales my fat percentage is 32% though for real I am closer to 10% (fat calipers). So those scales (knew that before did not buy it for the fat percentage) also does not work well.

Best thing is checking your belt (or a just take a measuring tape and check your belly yourself), a fat caliper works good too

[h90]

Any Cardio-training is low impact/ long duration training. This is an ineffective way of loosing fat. You might loose WEIGHT, but that comprises muscle mass ( the body gets rid of all the muscle mass it doesn't need for endurance running - see the skinny marathon pros.)

...

Muscle is the last source of energy for your body when you run (Glycogene, Fat then Muscle). You have to run long duration (2H+) without proper intake/diet for your body to start this process.

The body fat precentage for pro marathon runners is between 5 to 15% (for male).

So yes, Marathon runners don't look like bodybuilder, it wouldn't be efficient for them ... but they are fare from fat.

To come back to the orignal topic, at some point of time, weight loss might not be very visible on the scale, and it might be best to look at other metrics which are more important from a health perspective: Fitness

I wish it was true about the muscle being the last to go unfortunately that is not the case and does have something to do with diet but not all. Granted for most people this is not a problem but muscular people do notice it when they do a lot of cardio

I now got a fitbit aria scale that also measures my fat percentage .. According to the scales my fat percentage is 32% though for real I am closer to 10% (fat calipers). So those scales (knew that before did not buy it for the fat percentage) also does not work well.

Best thing is checking your belt (or a just take a measuring tape and check your belly yourself), a fat caliper works good too

It differs if you never exercise before, you will gain muscle with cardio. As you activate them. While if you have a lot muscles already the situation is complete different.

[robblok]

Any Cardio-training is low impact/ long duration training. This is an ineffective way of loosing fat. You might loose WEIGHT, but that comprises muscle mass ( the body gets rid of all the muscle mass it doesn't need for endurance running - see the skinny marathon pros.)

...

Muscle is the last source of energy for your body when you run (Glycogene, Fat then Muscle). You have to run long duration (2H+) without proper intake/diet for your body to start this process.

The body fat precentage for pro marathon runners is between 5 to 15% (for male).

So yes, Marathon runners don't look like bodybuilder, it wouldn't be efficient for them ... but they are fare from fat.

To come back to the orignal topic, at some point of time, weight loss might not be very visible on the scale, and it might be best to look at other metrics which are more important from a health perspective: Fitness

I wish it was true about the muscle being the last to go unfortunately that is not the case and does have something to do with diet but not all. Granted for most people this is not a problem but muscular people do notice it when they do a lot of cardio

I now got a fitbit aria scale that also measures my fat percentage .. According to the scales my fat percentage is 32% though for real I am closer to 10% (fat calipers). So those scales (knew that before did not buy it for the fat percentage) also does not work well.

Best thing is checking your belt (or a just take a measuring tape and check your belly yourself), a fat caliper works good too

It differs if you never exercise before, you will gain muscle with cardio. As you activate them. While if you have a lot muscles already the situation is complete different.

Of course.. people who never exercised or did not for a long time often are able to build muscle while loosing weight. (one of the few times this is possible). However if you had muscle before its as you say.

But for people who have muscle.. loosing it can happen quite fast if you do too much cardio. Heavy weight sessions help you to hold on to your muscle as your body then knows it needs too. Just doing cardio and you often loose it.

[tropo]

... cutting the trail ...

What they will point out, is that you should start your running or walking exercices progressively and listen to your body.

And avoid the "Too much, Too fast, Too soon".

Eating less alone ... won't make you fit.

If you have 120-150 kg jogging is the dead of your knees....(if you have 70 kg and want to have 65 jogging is great.)

At "Won't make you fit" yes but it makes you slimmer. Don't misunderstand me, exercises are of course extreme useful, but not an absolute "must do".

For someone who is very overweight I would recommend swimming, bicycle or even more training with weights or best a mix of all.

You are right, at 120+KG running might not be the best idea for exercices... and again, that would depends if it's 120KG of muscle or pure fat.

At 120KG+, you can nevertheless start with walking exercices and at 100KG, you can already do a mix of walking and running, without too much risk.

From an overall health perspective, fitter seems to be better than slimmer, and you get fit with exercices.

Not saying adapting your diet is not required to lose weight, it is, but getting fit should be a higher priority.

120+ kg for running is crazy whether it's muscle or fat... I'm assuming you're referring to distance jogging and not short distance running. Even 100 kg is too heavy... and no one talks about age ... it makes a huge difference.

[tropo]

Any Cardio-training is low impact/ long duration training. This is an ineffective way of loosing fat. You might loose WEIGHT, but that comprises muscle mass ( the body gets rid of all the muscle mass it doesn't need for endurance running - see the skinny marathon pros.)

...

Muscle is the last source of energy for your body when you run (Glycogene, Fat then Muscle). You have to run long duration (2H+) without proper intake/diet for your body to start this process.

The body fat precentage for pro marathon runners is between 5 to 15% (for male).

So yes, Marathon runners don't look like bodybuilder, it wouldn't be efficient for them ... but they are fare from fat.

To come back to the orignal topic, at some point of time, weight loss might not be very visible on the scale, and it might be best to look at other metrics which are more important from a health perspective: Fitness

I wish it was true about the muscle being the last to go unfortunately that is not the case and does have something to do with diet but not all. Granted for most people this is not a problem but muscular people do notice it when they do a lot of cardio

I now got a fitbit aria scale that also measures my fat percentage .. According to the scales my fat percentage is 32% though for real I am closer to 10% (fat calipers). So those scales (knew that before did not buy it for the fat percentage) also does not work well.

Best thing is checking your belt (or a just take a measuring tape and check your belly yourself), a fat caliper works good too

Shame on you Rob... you knew better than to waste your money on scales like that.

[robblok]

Any Cardio-training is low impact/ long duration training. This is an ineffective way of loosing fat. You might loose WEIGHT, but that comprises muscle mass ( the body gets rid of all the muscle mass it doesn't need for endurance running - see the skinny marathon pros.)

...

Muscle is the last source of energy for your body when you run (Glycogene, Fat then Muscle). You have to run long duration (2H+) without proper intake/diet for your body to start this process.

The body fat precentage for pro marathon runners is between 5 to 15% (for male).

So yes, Marathon runners don't look like bodybuilder, it wouldn't be efficient for them ... but they are fare from fat.

To come back to the orignal topic, at some point of time, weight loss might not be very visible on the scale, and it might be best to look at other metrics which are more important from a health perspective: Fitness

I wish it was true about the muscle being the last to go unfortunately that is not the case and does have something to do with diet but not all. Granted for most people this is not a problem but muscular people do notice it when they do a lot of cardio

I now got a fitbit aria scale that also measures my fat percentage .. According to the scales my fat percentage is 32% though for real I am closer to 10% (fat calipers). So those scales (knew that before did not buy it for the fat percentage) also does not work well.

Best thing is checking your belt (or a just take a measuring tape and check your belly yourself), a fat caliper works good too

Shame on you Rob... you knew better than to waste your money on scales like that.

I know I thought it might not show real numbers but at least consistent measurements.

[kekalot]

I personally don't worry much my knees too much while running (not jogging, running.)

but mainly it's because I learned to drop the silly padded shoes run "properly" quite a few years ago

people tend to heel strike due to wearing thick padded heeled shoes most of their lives

here is some information about Impact Force from heel striking while running:

"This kind of collision leads to a rapid, high impact transient about 1.5 to as much as 3 times your body weight (depending on your speed) within 50 milliseconds of striking the ground.
This is equivalent to someone hitting you on the heel with a hammer using 1.5 to as much as 3 times your body weight. These impacts add up, since you strike the ground almost 1000 times per mile!"

forefoot landing is much more gentle, the same information about Impact Force:

"This kind of collision produces a very slow rise in force with no distinct impact transient. There is ESSENTIALLY NO IMPACT TRANSIENT in a forefoot strike. The same is true of some (but not all) midfoot strikes.
We have found that even on hard surfaces (a steel force plate) runners who forefoot strike have impact forces that are 7 times lower than shod runners who heel strike. Rates of loading are equal to or less than rates of loading for shod runners."

I am not trying to convince or convert people here, I couldn't care less if you believe this is true or not.

but sadly, this is the reason why MOST people tend to have knee issues.

using the example above, someone at running 120kg weight would feel impact ranging from 180kg all the way up to 240kg from the heel, straight to the knee