August 29 - heavy new penalties await visa overstays: Thai Immigration

[Thai at Heart]

 

Just for anyones interest...Travelled last March on flight from Bangkok to Chiang Mai and set next to Thai immigration officers..Really nice guys and one next to me spoke really good english and we chatted all journey...He told me then they had a massive problem with russian mafia and chinese mafia versus thai mafia in pattaya and they were
going to deal with it this year..Russian girls working pattaya etc and russian control of areas was to clamped down on...I think relevant to whats now happening I'm sure
 

You speak the truth. A lot of Thai holiday resorts have Russians who are running business's or renting property. They are the latest in a long line that includes all the UK expats who have visa run for years while running bars etc.
 
I am pleased the clampdown is taking place and welcome a quieter more civilized Thailand 
 

 
So why do they not make fast cars illegal in the west - that would stop all get away drivers, and thus remove many bank robbers! How about making duct tape a controlled substance?
 
The point being that if they want to go after illegal bar owners or Russian hotel owners, then why not raid those bars and hotels and catch them red handed like they do everywhere else in the world? Answer - because it is not about catching illegal workers - period! It is the usual military xenophobic, isolationist, policies - like the crackdowns and continual policy changes in 2006 (and the stopping of all PAID FOR PR applications etc). It is what the military do here - they shut up the press and they kick out the foreigners - we saw the mass exodus of Cambodian workers and the continual changes to entry policy and enforcement without warning - and the trend is continuing and will continue. Unlike 2006, they have planned it better and have little opposition - they will be in for the full 18  months, plus probably a term in elected government too - the bad times they are just starting for us folks (currently legal and not - watch this space)

Indeed it does make one wonder how much harder they can make it. I mean 400k per year is hardly living the high life is it, and they don't insist on private insurance.

They really could make it very hard to stay with the flick of a pen.

[wolf5370]

very good news , everybody must respect the law. no visa go back home. too much people no visa want to stay in thailand ,good wheather ,everything not expensive

 

Maybe ten years ago, along with friendly people (smiles), home grown traditions, and almost zero violent crime  - right now it is far from a cheap country, violent crime is at an all time high with the tourist a victim target like never before. There are many warm places in Europe and around the world that are cheaper, friendlier, with more penetrable language and so on. Thailan's days of being out in front are long gone - many still have that impression, hence the large tourist numbers - the more Thailand does to disprove this notion, the more it will loose out. ASEAN will give Thailand a big wake up call - but it will be too late by then (already is) and they will be the ASEAN's under-dog.

[monk213]

Although my visa is all in check and has been since I first arrived some years ago, a friend of mine is on nearly a year of overstay. Is he honestly going to face jail time if he doesn't go and get it sorted before the 29th? I have tried telling him that he should and now I think he is considering it, but what is the reality here? A fine and getting barred for a few years or actual jail time?

[wolf5370]

 

 

 

Just for anyones interest...Travelled last March on flight from Bangkok to Chiang Mai and set next to Thai immigration officers..Really nice guys and one next to me spoke really good english and we chatted all journey...He told me then they had a massive problem with russian mafia and chinese mafia versus thai mafia in pattaya and they were
going to deal with it this year..Russian girls working pattaya etc and russian control of areas was to clamped down on...I think relevant to whats now happening I'm sure
 

You speak the truth. A lot of Thai holiday resorts have Russians who are running business's or renting property. They are the latest in a long line that includes all the UK expats who have visa run for years while running bars etc.
 
I am pleased the clampdown is taking place and welcome a quieter more civilized Thailand 
 

 
So why do they not make fast cars illegal in the west - that would stop all get away drivers, and thus remove many bank robbers! How about making duct tape a controlled substance?
 
The point being that if they want to go after illegal bar owners or Russian hotel owners, then why not raid those bars and hotels and catch them red handed like they do everywhere else in the world? Answer - because it is not about catching illegal workers - period! It is the usual military xenophobic, isolationist, policies - like the crackdowns and continual policy changes in 2006 (and the stopping of all PAID FOR PR applications etc). It is what the military do here - they shut up the press and they kick out the foreigners - we saw the mass exodus of Cambodian workers and the continual changes to entry policy and enforcement without warning - and the trend is continuing and will continue. Unlike 2006, they have planned it better and have little opposition - they will be in for the full 18  months, plus probably a term in elected government too - the bad times they are just starting for us folks (currently legal and not - watch this space)

Indeed it does make one wonder how much harder they can make it. I mean 400k per year is hardly living the high life is it, and they don't insist on private insurance.

They really could make it very hard to stay with the flick of a pen.

 

 

Well we do not know what further plans they have in store - at the risk of rumour mongering...

I think the 400/800k seasoned lump sum / 65k income minimums are likely going to change soon too. The existing amounts likely grandfathered, to keep the hoi poloi that are currently in OA extensions happy and stayed put (after all it is a naturally diminishing number). Insurance is already being "offered" from the state at the airport for tourists etc - that too will be coming, I am sure, for extensions (and PR?) - its dangerous territory though, who would want to underwrite affordable medical insurance for the elderly (most will not keep 70+ unless they have been long term insured - and pre-existing conditions are often not covered)?

 

I think Thailand will be losing much of their future retirement "stock" to neighbouring countries, as well as those struggling European countries that will start to look that much cheaper as the UK and Germany boom (which they are starting to do now) - countries well known for their expats. South America too - if safety concerns can be allayed. Thailand could be as different from today in ten years time, as it was twenty years ago - and not for the better economically I think. With ASEAN looming, they should be making wise decisions to lever themselves into a good position, yet they seem to be doing the opposite - making it harder for schools to find native English teachers - making it harder for expats to come here - etc. They should be encouraging both - as well as encouraging foreign business owners to set up shop here, to hire Thais and transfer skills and acumen, and building international ties - all they seem to be doing is pissing off everyone, from all the biggest players down.

[wolf5370]

Although my visa is all in check and has been since I first arrived some years ago, a friend of mine is on nearly a year of overstay. Is he honestly going to face jail time if he doesn't go and get it sorted before the 29th? I have tried telling him that he should and now I think he is considering it, but what is the reality here? A fine and getting barred for a few years or actual jail time?

Jail time only if he is arrested - and I guess that will generally be commuted in favour of a fine from the court if prosecuted - saves money all round. He would likely get deported though if arrested (a friend of mine was - and American a few years back on 18 months OS - he did spend a month and a bit in jail, while awaiting trial, but that was because he was working (manual labour - he was actually queuing up with the Burmese for construction labour in the early hours - none of us, his friends, knew!), was completely skint and had no where to stay - he had been kipping on someone else's couch - he was caught working when he was arrested, not for construction work, but for entertaining on stage at a bar for a fee - he never came back).

[monk213]

 

Although my visa is all in check and has been since I first arrived some years ago, a friend of mine is on nearly a year of overstay. Is he honestly going to face jail time if he doesn't go and get it sorted before the 29th? I have tried telling him that he should and now I think he is considering it, but what is the reality here? A fine and getting barred for a few years or actual jail time?

Jail time only if he is arrested - and I guess that will generally be commuted in favour of a fine from the court if prosecuted - saves money all round. He would likely get deported though if arrested (a friend of mine was - and American a few years back on 18 months OS - he did spend a month and a bit in jail, while awaiting trial, but that was because he was working (manual labour - he was actually queuing up with the Burmese for construction labour in the early hours - none of us, his friends, knew!), was completely skint and had no where to stay - he had been kipping on someone else's couch - he was caught working when he was arrested, not for construction work, but for entertaining on stage at a bar for a fee - he never came back).

 

 

Well I'm a student with an ED and he is a teacher with NOTHING, so he is going one way or another. Just trying to hammer home the severity of the situation which I think has started to sink in.

[maxman71]

Thailand is not unique , many other countries are nice to live in .. let see how it goes when the tourists number will fall because of this witches hunt ...Unless the junta is happy with huge chinese tourists group. 

If this crackdown on abuse of tourist/ED visas expands to Non Imm O, Non Imm B and WP's for whatever reason(s), then I think it is possible that the junta is addressing a higher level strategic agenda other than just ensuring farang have the proper visa to enter and stay in the LOS.

 

Is it possible that there is a move afoot to "scrub" the country of the historically traditional western male farang long-stayer and opting to embrace mainland Chinese tourists in an effort to appease the rapidly emerging China as the new Master of Asia Pac ???

 

I'll have to adjust my tinfoil hat to ensure I am getting the proper cosmic ray reception from the alternative universe I communicate with frequently to ensure I am getting accurate info...

[hhgz]

"Not all overstay is intentional...I miscalculated the 30 days and ended up leaving a day late..."

 

Perhaps Immigration should implement the "show-me-that-you-can-count-to-30" test.

[jossthaifarang]

Well i think it might not be such a bad thing, its going to eventually get rid of all the idiots that are not only making all of us look bad, but robbing us too! ATM skimmers, scammers, beggers... Maybe a little bit of a deterant is a good thing.  

[wolf5370]

Well i think it might not be such a bad thing, its going to eventually get rid of all the idiots that are not only making all of us look bad, but robbing us too! ATM skimmers, scammers, beggers... Maybe a little bit of a deterant is a good thing.  

Yes of course - all the farang criminals are going to go, because they wouldn't want to risk breaking the law.

[brianP]

Don't you see that the Thai's are trying to keep the illegal worker out, and rightfully so. Look what cheap labor and illegal people have done to the USA. If you have your papers, you have nothing to worry or gripe about. I personally know of two undesirables who have been booted out.

[Paulzed]

 

Just for anyones interest...Travelled last March on flight from Bangkok to Chiang Mai and set next to Thai immigration officers..Really nice guys and one next to me spoke really good english and we chatted all journey...He told me then they had a massive problem with russian mafia and chinese mafia versus thai mafia in pattaya and they were

going to deal with it this year..Russian girls working pattaya etc and russian control of areas was to clamped down on...I think relevant to whats now happening I'm sure

 

 

Correct - if you are in Chiang Mai just now look around yourself and see what's missing.  

 

It's been a good ten years or so since the Russian invasion of Pattaya started, and in the last five years got to domination point.  

 

The Russians have been fully aware of Chiang Mai for a long time, and yet? hardly a foothold, hardly a presence.  

 

There's a good reason for it - and the guys you were talking to last night know the answer.

 

Please stayed tuned as we will reveal the answer to this and many other mysteries after the commercial break!!! 

[captainron]

 

In before the 29 pages of "but my case is different than the hundreds of others asking about the same thing with the same details as me" posts that are sure to follow.

 

Of those 70k over-stayers last year (and 30k so far this year) I wonder how many are for over-stays of less than 2-3 days ? TAT claims 26.7 million tourist arrivals in 2013, so 70,000 over-stayers would represent about .0026% of that total (a quarter of 1% of the total). Doesn't seem quite the massive problem requiring draconian measures as it sounded before.

 

i was one ..had a 2 day over stay due to plane delay over technical problems (plane was not even in thailand)

 

 

[SoFarAndNear]

 

 

In before the 29 pages of "but my case is different than the hundreds of others asking about the same thing with the same details as me" posts that are sure to follow.

 

Of those 70k over-stayers last year (and 30k so far this year) I wonder how many are for over-stays of less than 2-3 days ? TAT claims 26.7 million tourist arrivals in 2013, so 70,000 over-stayers would represent about .0026% of that total (a quarter of 1% of the total). Doesn't seem quite the massive problem requiring draconian measures as it sounded before.

 

i was one ..had a 2 day over stay due to plane delay over technical problems (plane was not even in thailand)

 

 

 

 

I was also one of these 70k. Had 2 days overstay. Normally planned to leave but get Cold then decided to stay in the bed 2 days. Actually GF forced me to do so...

[dominique355]

It all seems pretty reasonable to me. All the farangs who posted complaints should go and protest about the severity of punishments for visa over stayers in their home countries

 

OK, let's see how my country is handling the situation. But first a remark: Switzerland has a population of about 7 million, 20% of which are foreigners. Just to put a perspective on numbers.

 

When I married my Thai wife, she immediately got a residence permit, no need to apply for a visa. The residence was valid for 1 year and subsequent renewals were for 2 years each. The formality for renewal was basically filing an application duly filled out and signed plus a payment of a fee of 20 Swiss francs (THB 700). No need for any formalities in between renewals. Residence included working permit at no extra cost or formality.

After 5 years of marriage a simplified procedure for becoming Swiss citizen and getting the Swiss passport was possible. Basically fill in a few papers, an interview with an Immigration Officer (English if desired) and the passport was issued withing 6 months after application.

 

The basic difference to countries like Thailand is the spirit of the law: While Thai laws try to put a trap and fool you (2 different types of visas needed, 90 days report with complicated caculation for due date, refusal to unite a family etc.), Switzerland has respect for the individual, no matter what nationality, and protects the family by making it easy for all to stay together, have the same legal status etc. And this although 20% of the polulation are foreigners, and still (almost) no xenophopia.
 

[ingvar]

 

 

70,000 overstayers in one year. That puts things into perspective somewhat! Good riddance to the beach bum pot head scum bags that give the law abiding visa legal folk a bad name!

 
LOL first time ive been called that...even when i ran my business here the 50+ staff none never called me that? (most prob much worse)
 
I hope you never miss your flight, get ill or heaven forbid have a flight cancelled due to some unforeseen problem like ...MH17.......remember over stay in only 48 hours

See post #14 please......

 

Ohh!? the posts have numbers? didn't see that before....

[Mario2008]

Political comment removed.

[apetley]

The only difference here is the fines and prison sentence.
The same rules re Original Passport have always been there, so as your visa info can be checked in the original passport, not a copy that could have been changed. Or a drivers licence that has the passport number in it but no visa particulars.
In relation to drivers licences having your passport number in it.
These are not always true, as in some cases such as mine.
I had a 5 yr licence and needed a new passport 3 yrs later.The new passport had a different number.  I paid no attention to the passport number on the licence.
When I renewed the licence on the 5th yr, I had to take the new passport with me to the rego/licence office and they pointed the problem out and told me I should have changed my car and bike licence when I got the new passport. No action was taken, but was warned.
This may be something you all might want to check if you recently renewed your passport.

When I renewed my old licence they asked to see my passport too. As it was a new passport the numbers didn't match. After alot of head scratching they asked me to go home and get my old passport to show them. After that my new licence was issued with my current passport number.

[The Deerhunter]

How come this news item is still up,which is apparently incorrect,  but the one entitled "    "No need to worry says Bangkok Immigration Commander"  seems to have vanished.   Please put it back on the news page and keep it near the top for a few days at least.  It is of vital importance to TVF Thai news readers.

 

[Mario2008]

That one has not vanished, it is still in the visa section on the first page.

[p_brownstone]

 

 

Immigration: "Foreigners must be able to produce their passport or face the consequences".

Average TV poster: (pulls hair out) "NOOOOOoooooo, THIS CANT BE HAPPENING!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END AS WE KNOW IT!!! GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD!!" violin playing in background "OH, THE HUMANITY!!!" (uncontrollable crying, sniff, sniff, sob)

Rational person: "This rule is most likely aimed at people who cant produce their passports, 'ever', because they don't have one. If, however, I am required to have my passport with me at all times, it's going to be a slight inconvenience and raises the risk of losing it..................but it's not the end of the world and in time I'm sure I'll get used to it".

.........but you shouldn't have to "get used to it" as it is stupid that you have to carry such a valuable item such as you're passport around with you at all times when an immigration stamped photocopy of all of the relevant passport pages (photo/information and visa stamp pages) will suffice!!!

Is this not a tad more sensible??

How about Permanent Residents?

If I showed them my passport I would be immediately arrested as an overstayer. Permanent residents aren't required to have exit and re-entry visas unless we are exiting.

So, I guess we would have to carry our permanent resident books as well, then spend hours at a police station trying to find someone who understands this process as well.










Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

I have PR and about 3 years ago my (British) Passport expired so I had to renew it - since then I have not left Thailand, ergo my Passport has no Stamps of any kind.

 

In Bangkok I always carry small copies of the first 3 double pages of my Residence Permit and the Original when traveling Up-country.

 

Patrick

[Adeeos]

 

Well, that's not really true is it. Bit like saying "if you carry your wallet you will either lose it or get it stolen". That's not a fact. I mean, I agree it's a total hassle but once people start spouting silly nonsense like that, the discussion just spirals down and down. 

 

 

I bet the moaners have huge smart phones in their pockets, valued at 25,000+ baht and leave on the bar counter, ironic ehhhhhh.

 

 

Ya,, and if it gets stolen, they can just head down to MBK, and grab another,,, SAME SAME as replacing a passport/visa stamps, ehhhh?

[Old Man River]

Immigration: "Foreigners must be able to produce their passport or face the consequences".

Average TV poster: (pulls hair out) "NOOOOOoooooo, THIS CANT BE HAPPENING!! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END AS WE KNOW IT!!! GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD!!" violin playing in background "OH, THE HUMANITY!!!" (uncontrollable crying, sniff, sniff, sob)

Rational person: "This rule is most likely aimed at people who cant produce their passports, 'ever', because they don't have one. If, however, I am required to have my passport with me at all times, it's going to be a slight inconvenience and raises the risk of losing it..................but it's not the end of the world and in time I'm sure I'll get used to it".

.........but you shouldn't have to "get used to it" as it is stupid that you have to carry such a valuable item such as you're passport around with you at all times when an immigration stamped photocopy of all of the relevant passport pages (photo/information and visa stamp pages) will suffice!!!

Is this not a tad more sensible??

How about Permanent Residents?

If I showed them my passport I would be immediately arrested as an overstayer. Permanent residents aren't required to have exit and re-entry visas unless we are exiting.

So, I guess we would have to carry our permanent resident books as well, then spend hours at a police station trying to find someone who understands this process as well.










Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I have PR and about 3 years ago my (British) Passport expired so I had to renew it - since then I have not left Thailand, ergo my Passport has no Stamps of any kind.

In Bangkok I always carry small copies of the first 3 double pages of my Residence Permit and the Original when traveling Up-country.

Patrick

My thinking, also shown in Steph's political cartoon this morning, is that it gives police an incentive to check documents when they rarely did before. Separate from possible shakedowns, if our documents are checked, I doubt we will be lucky enough to get a police officer who understands why we don't have exit visas in our doc's.

I don't know if this has ever happened to anyone else, but a few years ago I was held up in the airport immigration line for about 20 minutes while the very polite immigration officer tried to figure out what a PR was.

OMR


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[p_brownstone]

My thinking, also shown in Steph's political cartoon this morning, is that it gives police an incentive to check documents when they rarely did before. Separate from possible shakedowns, if our documents are checked, I doubt we will be lucky enough to get a police officer who understands why we don't have exit visas in our doc's.

I don't know if this has ever happened to anyone else, but a few years ago I was held up in the airport immigration line for about 20 minutes while the very polite immigration officer tried to figure out what a PR was.

OMR


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

Never had a problem at Immigration - although as I say I have not been out of Thailand for a few years - however I have had problems a few times at hotels here when checking in:

 

Receptionist wants to see my Passport but I show the Residence Permit instead - because I know my "blank" Passport will confuse them.

 

"No, no!" says she, "I do not know this paper, must show Passport".

 

Big sigh from me because I know what will happen :

 

"OK, here's my Passport" I say.

 

Big smile from the Receptionist ............. until she searches the Passport :

 

"Why you no have Immigration Stamp and Card!!??"

 

The Manager is called and another 15 minutes of my life is canned!

 

All usually ends in good humour however, but once in Mae Sai the Police were actually called!

 

Patrick

[MrJohnson]

Wow. >400 posts. The uninformed, the ill-informed and the miss-informed. Calm down everyone. Take a deep breath and wait for the fine print to be announced. And BTW it is not another 'farang persecution' - it is foreigners NOT farangs.

[salavan]

i wonder who is supplying them with fake thai id cards some wicked farang i expect

[Basil B]

Some bleeding hearts and spin doctors are trying to make out a two day overstay will get a ten year ban

 

He said foreigners who turn themselves in would be barred from re-entering Thailand for one year if their overstay time exceeds 90 days. The ban will be valid for three years if their overstay period is more than one year. Those overstaying for more than three years will be barred from coming back to Thailand for five full years. In the event an overstay exceeds five years, their re-entry to Thailand will be prohibited for the next 10 years

 

seems very fair to me, exceptionally generous given that a Thai only needs to over stay a few days in the UK and will get a ten year ban.

 

.You only need to read posts like this to see why the Thais are getting tough:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/747034-disabled-scot-claims-he-was-battered-by-thai-prison-guards-after-being-left-starving-and-penniless/

Edited August 1, 2014 by Basil B

[Old Man River]

My thinking, also shown in Steph's political cartoon this morning, is that it gives police an incentive to check documents when they rarely did before. Separate from possible shakedowns, if our documents are checked, I doubt we will be lucky enough to get a police officer who understands why we don't have exit visas in our doc's.
I don't know if this has ever happened to anyone else, but a few years ago I was held up in the airport immigration line for about 20 minutes while the very polite immigration officer tried to figure out what a PR was.

OMR


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Never had a problem at Immigration - although as I say I have not been out of Thailand for a few years - however I have had problems a few times at hotels here when checking in:

Receptionist wants to see my Passport but I show the Residence Permit instead - because I know my "blank" Passport will confuse them.

"No, no!" says she, "I do not know this paper, must show Passport".

Big sigh from me because I know what will happen :

"OK, here's my Passport" I say.

Big smile from the Receptionist ............. until she searches the Passport :

"Why you no have Immigration Stamp and Card!!??"

The Manager is called and another 15 minutes of my life is canned!

All usually ends in good humour however, but once in Mae Sai the Police were actually called!

Patrick

So far, my Thai drivers license has been good enough upcountry, but times are changing. I can see the Police getting involved more and more, with the PR and a passport with no exit visa being a big red flag to non-immigration officers as you have already experienced.

My wife thinks I am just paranoid and it won't happen in Bangkok. I hope she's right.

OMR


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ratcatcher]

 

 

 

 

How about Permanent Residents?

If I showed them my passport I would be immediately arrested as an overstayer. Permanent residents aren't required to have exit and re-entry visas unless we are exiting.

So, I guess we would have to carry our permanent resident books as well, then spend hours at a police station trying to find someone who understands this process as well.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I have PR and about 3 years ago my (British) Passport expired so I had to renew it - since then I have not left Thailand, ergo my Passport has no Stamps of any kind.

In Bangkok I always carry small copies of the first 3 double pages of my Residence Permit and the Original when traveling Up-country.

Patrick

My thinking, also shown in Steph's political cartoon this morning, is that it gives police an incentive to check documents when they rarely did before. Separate from possible shakedowns, if our documents are checked, I doubt we will be lucky enough to get a police officer who understands why we don't have exit visas in our doc's.

I don't know if this has ever happened to anyone else, but a few years ago I was held up in the airport immigration line for about 20 minutes while the very polite immigration officer tried to figure out what a PR was.

OMR


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

[attachment=277518:ow6xdTg.jpg]

 

The Nation

Edited August 1, 2014 by ratcatcher

[beowolf2012]

 

this country is getting more ridicules by the day
 
He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 and jailed for up to two years.
 
 
 
 
 

can see this working out well after it got pick pocketed the night before because some idiot said we have to carry passport at all times [facepalm]

 

 

If you have a save for your passport or house to keep it safe in Pattaya and many other place photo copy of your passport is OK Just as so long time it show everything then you don't have to run around with your passport....