I might be biased and prejudist, but my impression is that

there are stereotypical Thai views on farang characteristics.

My query firstly is what such a view on caucasian females might be,

and secondly on caucasian couples (although I´m actually Finnish

and thus not a proper caucasian out of a race biological perspective)?

From experience I got curious and am naturally able to

draw my own conclusions (such as blonde, big breasted amazones

are somewhat of an exotic spectacle on the countryside - some

Thai guys asked, very politely, if she´d mind have a photo

taken with them, for example. In the Nam Tok Phliew national nark).

I know I´ll have this comi´n back at me, but it seems western guys

are more or less expected to willingly hit the sack with more or less

any Thai lady that approaches them. Me and my brother got the

mandatory displays of interest while passing bars in Pattaya, followed

by less charming inquiries on why on earth we´d chosen to take

our downtown stroll in the company of our girlfriends when there were

so many women readily avaliable.

From this I learned: If you are a fairly good looking guy passing a bar

with about ten girls inside and very few customers, for a couple of seconds

you´ll be the sexiest man ever to walk in a pair of shoes. Or flip-flops.

Also, there tends to be some kind of reluctant respect for girlfriends

and their gyus who obviusly are off limits.

Later on I had the opportunity of bringing my new wisdom to practice

while having to pass another bar infested street, in Chiang Mai this time.

To be honest, I really didn´t fancy that kind of attraction, hence was

I relieved to be able to shepherd my fiance in front of me and stay

clear of further invitations.

And that was where by naivity lived up to my blue eyes, and also

where I had to revise formerly acquired wisdom. This time I litterary

had someone pulling my arm and my buttocks pinched.

This, and some less pleasant experiences in a dump some 20 miles

north of Hua Hin, left me wondering if there are any stereotypical

or biased Thai views on young (20 something) western couples

(and specifically women, their view on men wasn´t that hard to figure).

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum part, and even more sorry

if I´m hard to follow in the text. I got off the graveyard shift 6,5h hours

ago and have yet to eat breakfast and go to bed - something I should´ve

done about 6h ago...

Edited July 3, 200620 yr by medz

Well, I'm not a twenty-something in a couple, but I am very often mistaken for a twenty-something. When I am with male friends, I very often do not see the reluctant respect that you talk about. I have very often seen blatant disregard. I've asked other Western couples about this, and I think it is similar, more or less. Of course, certain areas are much worse than others. But sometimes, I find women trying to squeeze into the frame for attention in areas that are not even remotely near a tourist or pick-up area.

Most of the time it's a little humorous to me, because it is a spectacle that I enjoy observing, and my friends were not interested in the blatant attention hounds. Most of my male friends are not interested in the scene here, and I can't seem myself dating anyone who is. However, if I was here in a relationship, I think I would confront the women who behave this way for their blatant disrespect.

There are certainly some sterotypes but the ones held differ a bit by the socioeconomic cass and education of the Thai in question. And of course, sterotypes play much less of a role for Thais who have had travelled abroad or had a lot of contact with westerners in Thailand. In those cases, attitudes will be more shaped by those experiences than by stereotypes.

As to the sterotypes that exist -- first of all, gender aside, the Thais tend to consider all persons with "white"skin to be of the same race, ethnicity and culture: "farang". Interestingly the Cambodians are much more sophisticated in that respect, recognizing the vast ethnic, cultural and economic differences that exist among "caucasian"appearing people.

For most Thais, "farang"= western european and affluent And as I mentioned before, anyone of "caucasian"appearance is considered "farang"even though they might be from South Africa or an impoverished Eastern European country. Oh and it is also assumed that you cannot possibly speak or understand Thai, even if you are obviously a long-term resident of the country and, for example, drive yourself into a service station in a car with local plates.(personal pet peeve)

In terms of sex and "farang"women there seems to be either no special assumption or an assumption that they are more liberal, if not promiscuous, than Thai women. Less educated guys seem to tend more to the second view than do the more educated, but of course it varies by the person -- and as I said before, sterotypes are less in effect among those who have add actual contact with "farang".

It is not uncommon for Thai men (again more often the less educated, but not always) to behave in a highly inappropriate way to "farang"women on the street (for example, riding by on a bicylce or moto and grabbinbg their breast, or making lewd remarks) which they would not do to a Thai woman, although it certainly doesn't happen all the time. I'm not sure to what extent this happens because of a stereotype that "farang"women are promiscuous vs a general sense that rules of social con duct don't apply to "farangs"since they are outside Thai society. Maybe a bit of both.

There are certainly some sterotypes but the ones held differ a bit by the socioeconomic cass and education of the Thai in question. And of course, sterotypes play much less of a role for Thais who have had travelled abroad or had a lot of contact with westerners in Thailand. In those cases, attitudes will be more shaped by those experiences than by stereotypes.

As to the sterotypes that exist -- first of all, gender aside, the Thais tend to consider all persons with "white"skin to be of the same race, ethnicity and culture: "farang". Interestingly the Cambodians are much more sophisticated in that respect, recognizing the vast ethnic, cultural and economic differences that exist among "caucasian"appearing people.

For most Thais, "farang"= western european and affluent And as I mentioned before, anyone of "caucasian"appearance is considered "farang"even though they might be from South Africa or an impoverished Eastern European country. Oh and it is also assumed that you cannot possibly speak or understand Thai, even if you are obviously a long-term resident of the country and, for example, drive yourself into a service station in a car with local plates.(personal pet peeve)

In terms of sex and "farang"women there seems to be either no special assumption or an assumption that they are more liberal, if not promiscuous, than Thai women. Less educated guys seem to tend more to the second view than do the more educated, but of course it varies by the person -- and as I said before, sterotypes are less in effect among those who have add actual contact with "farang".

It is not uncommon for Thai men (again more often the less educated, but not always) to behave in a highly inappropriate way to "farang"women on the street (for example, riding by on a bicylce or moto and grabbinbg their breast, or making lewd remarks) which they would not do to a Thai woman, although it certainly doesn't happen all the time. I'm not sure to what extent this happens because of a stereotype that "farang"women are promiscuous vs a general sense that rules of social con duct don't apply to "farangs"since they are outside Thai society. Maybe a bit of both.

Thanks for the lengthy answer, it pretty much confirms my suspicions.

Am I very naive if I´m under the impression that Thai men do pay a bit

more respect to farang women accompanied of a boyfriend/fiance/husband?

if a thai man were to do the grabbing etc to a thai woman, he would receive a screeching dressing down for it; a farang woman is usually more polite (expecially if u dont know thai, etc) and cant give the man the proper 'dressing down' (the english equivalent of buzz off u jerk....etc etc..)

I cannot say how Thais treat a western woman with a western man, only from my perspective; a western woman with a Thai man.

We are both quite clean looking (very important in Thailand) and dress quite respectably (again appearances matter) so in general we have both been treated with respect when we travel off our island (life here does not apply to how Thais in general treat either one of us because every local we come into contact with on a regular basis knows who we are).

Off island, either with or without my husband, I have never had a Thai man touch me in any way that is inappropriate. Perhaps I give off a vibe that I know what the rules are, maybe it is the way I dress, I don't know, just can't say I have ever been grabbed. To be sure, if someone did touch me I would react in a shocked and offended manner, thus letting the grabber know that I know the rules of Thai culture.

In general, Thai men treat me very decently, even Bangkok taxi drivers. I assume it is for several reasons: polite dress, polite behavior, ability to speak colloquial Thai, and the fact that once they begin talking with me they find out 1) my husband is Thai and 2) he is from Surat Thani (most Bangkokians are under the general impression all Surat Thani men are killers).

Thai women, well, it seems to depend on the woman. Some women are very friendly and polite and others treat me as if I were in their way. None of the rude behavior, of course, is done in front of my husband. I have found a great number of Thai girls with farang boyfriends to be either very nice and friendly or see me as some kind of threat to their deal with the guy and are scared of me (as I speak Thai and know what they are saying). I'd say, in general its about 50/50 with Thai women. Although, my husband did tell me a story once of two Thai girls who passed us in Surat thani and said in a very snotty tone "Well, I guess Thai girls aren't good enough for him".

And the only incident I have ever had of a Thai girl hitting on my husband in front of me was a local girl who was flirting with him shortly after we got married. I am guessing she assumed I was just a girlfriend since we didn't have a wedding --I guess unmarried means fair game to some women (Thai and farang). Anyway, I gave her the evil eye every time I ran into her after that and even now she is nervous to speak with my husband --17 years later

I should add, in defense of Thai men, that while I have suffered the behavior I described, it was from a definite minority of Thai men...and also that other complete strangers (Thai men) in some cases intervened or came up to me to apologize. In one case, a Thai man physically intervened, at some risk to himself, to protect me from a drunk & abusive guy in the market, and then apologized profusely to me. So while the harrassment does happen -- not just to me, but to most of the western women I know, at kleast occasionally -- and is done by men who would not do it to a Thai women -- it is alos done by only an unreprsentative minority.

And, for that matter, there's plenty of similar harrasmment of western women by western men back where I come from (NYC!) Although there the actual gropers usually act surreptiously rather than in the open, here I think they may feel it's safe to be blatant because it's a farang.

I have only ever been bothered in this way when alone, never when with a companion of either gender. No reltion to time of day or attire.

My experience of working with a wide range of Thais, from construction workers to professional engineers, managers, economists etc is…..

Get a bunch of Thai men in a relaxed atmosphere (by that I mean out for a meal and beers) and at some time the conversation will turn to women – It will inevitably get around to an attempt to compare notes, Western women with Thai women.

What comes up in all but a very small number of cases is the topic of “Free Sek”

Thais, and not just Thai men, Thai women as well, have an ingrained belief that Westerners and in particular Western women have a predilection of ‘Free Sek’.

That’s not ‘Sek without Paying’, that is ‘Sek, any time, any place, at the drop of a hat, with strangers, with people they’ve only just met’.

More than a few Thais honestly believe that western women walk around barely able to control themselves at the prospect of ‘Free Sek’.

It’s a bit like the imagined exploits of a 14 year old English Lad relating his holiday experiences in France to his 14 year old mates – The difference, I’m talking about grown, and very often extremely well educated adults.

Now before you get to guessing what it is I myself comment on when comparing notes. Let it be understood, I am not so stupid as to say anything to drunk Thai guys about anything Thai, especially Thai women that is not complimentary. (I’ve a story from the Philippines on that subject that taught me, if you can’t say something nice to a drunk about his country, don’t say anything at all).

Now before you get to guessing what it is I myself comment on when comparing notes. Let it be understood, I am not so stupid as to say anything to drunk Thai guys about anything Thai, especially Thai women that is not complimentary.

shame the men you socialise with can't have the same manners!

I don't have a problem from thai men, if they get too lechy to me I will give them an earful or a dirty look. Thai culture or no, it is up to a women herself to define her own boundaries & if some moron has an idea about western women in his head that makes that behaviour ok in his mind he's going to learn really fast how wrong he was. When out with my husband we have never had anyone act out of line, someone did make a comment about a very good swedish friend of ours thoguh & hubby took offense, it wasn't pretty (for the other guy). Thai women don't bother me, if they want to try to take my man then they are welcome to try, I don't want a weak thing that can't keep it under control so if he strays he knows the consequences. Flirting doesn't threaten me & I don't get all prissy about people being overly friendly towards my hubby. he was a muscician for gods sake, pissed up thai & farang women were always coming on to him when he was playing.

As for the blatent cat calling from lady bar, well it is just funny IMO, they have a job to do & they are trying to do it. All power to them, anyone who finds that scene appealing isn't someone I want in my bed

Oh & after working in an all male enviroment for most of my adult life, I am fully aware of what guys talk about when they get together but their mistake I find, is not realsing that women are worse

What is interesting though is the kind of reverse problem that thai women have when going to the west. A percentage of people will assume they are hookers cause they are thai with a western man & that he must have met her in a bar.

I see this as the same as what guesthouse was saying about these thai guys assuming that most western women arel raging nyphos who will do it anytime, with anyone.

Now depending on where they hang about or live then this might be true of the western women they see daily. So for example, if they lived on a small island there would be a large turn over of young girls looking to have a good time on holiday including bedding multiple guys & not giving a crap what people thought about it, now they aren't the majority but that is all these guys see in their lifestyles but if they live in a city enviroment then they would have a limited experience of western women, so holding that same view would make them more ignorant than their island cousins, as the islander would have a larger percentage to make their judgment (still not a correct judgment but more accurate & valid that city boys)

Movies & tv shows would also enforce this opinion but I wonder if most of it is just the same old stereotypes that follow thai women around?

Boo, for me it wasn't so much the attempt ( which was doomed to failure anyway ) but the absolute disrespect shown to me. I live in a very small community (in many ways) and feel that gaining respect has been the longest haul of all. Allowing someone to treat me with disrespect sends the wrong message, I feel. If this had been some pissed up non-local girl (thai or farang) it wouldnt have mattered but for my neighbor to show such disrespect as to hit on my husband was going too far.

I agree with the idea that many (but certainly not all) Thais think western women are into free sex (in fact, one Swedish girl I met was very upset because most western guys have this idea about Swedish girls as well). I think the holiday mentality that is seen on the beach resorts (our place included) makes it worse, as well as the media representing the madonna/whore image everywhere.

SBK I totally agree about the local women, that is completely disrespectful, luckily for me we haven't been in that situation (yet?) but I am also quite dense when it comes to things like that so even if one of the girls in his home town had been coming on to him I'm not too sure I would have noticed

That's weird... I really think that Thai girls are more promiscuous than the foreigner’s girls, is just a thing to go to the street, or discos, clubs...and look some girls behavior in front of a “falang” guy. And I’m not referring to the prostitutes, also to the rest of the girls.

In other hand, I think is the way a girl act. Guys can be really annoy with girls if they don’t know how to be a lady, if they see a falang or Thai (doesn’t matter, Im just talking about girls in general) drunk, acting like a “mad cow” or the cheapest thing of pat pong, don’t play respect to her.

In my case, I know how to treat with guys, how to make them respect me, and I never had any problems with guys.. Not falang, not Thai..

But…… I must say that Arabic guys are disgusting.. They look at you like u where naked. EW!!

Cheers!

I might be biased and prejudist ...

Yes, you sure are. I guess you're jealous. Maybe your young, handsome (according to you) husband might have fancied some of those girls and that made you mad. For god's sake, they're just doing their job, they just wanted customers.

thai-aust, medz is a man. You might want to try readng the post properly before jumping to the usual assumption that it has to be a western women who makes these observations. There are men out there who find that kind of behaviour offensive.

Now who's predjudice

Thai girls are more promiscuous than the foreigner’s girls,

I wonder where you're coming from?

In my case, I know how to treat with guys, how to make them respect me, and I never had any problems with guys..

No, I guess you never have any problems with guys, because you won't go to bed with them anyway!

whats your point thai-aust?

thai-aust, medz is a man. You might want to try readng the post properly before jumping to the usual assumption that it has to be a western women who makes these observations. There are men out there who find that kind of behaviour offensive.

Now who's predjudice

Boo: Yeah, you're right. My apologies, didn't read it properly. I take it back.

This talk about Thai sterotypes on western women ("Free Sek") reminds me of a hilarous event many years back when I was working in a border refugee camp. We had a great team of Thai and foreign staff who understood one other & formed deep friendships. One of the foriegners was a huge blond Australian woman (as in tall, large-boned) who had just arrived and was very eagerly trying to learn Thai. This was in Surin & during her off time she took the night train to BKK, 2nd class sleeper.

She wanted the train attendant (a young, slightly built Thai male) to make up her berth (you know, flip the seats over) but didnt know how to say that in Thai', so thought she'd just say "Ï want to sleep". But unfortunately she got the verb sequence for "nawn rap"r eversed.... which as most of you know turns it into a euphemism for sex. Anyhow, making a long story short she wound up having the Thai equivalent of this conversationwith the train attendant:

Her: I want to have sex (thinking she has said "sleep")

He: (looking horrified) No! No! Cannot!!

She: why not?

He: Not here! Can't do that here!

She: why not? This is the sex (meaning to say, sleeping) car.

He: No, no! Cannot, cannot! and ran away, never to return to that car. She had to sit up all night to Bkk.

Back at work, over lunch she complained about the rude service on the train, which puzzled us all so we asked her just what exactly she had said...and collapsed in hysterics when she relayed it all in Thai.

She was so embarassed she never took the train again.

And somewhere out there is a probably now retired employee of State Railways for knows for SURE that farang women are Amazons in search of "Free Sek" !!!!

Edited July 5, 200620 yr by Sheryl

Poor guy is probably having nightmares to this day!!!

Edited July 5, 200620 yr by Patsycat

I was just going to make the same observation some of you already made, about Swedish girls, which is a complete myth. From what I have seen in other Western countries, the difference when comparing Swedish women with others is negligable. Still, the label refuses to die off, I guess we have Holloywood to thank for that.

[edit]

My comment had already been done, thanks boo.

Edited July 5, 200620 yr by medz

This talk about Thai sterotypes on western women ("Free Sek") reminds me of a hilarous event many years back when I was working in a border refugee camp. We had a great team of Thai and foreign staff who understood one other & formed deep friendships. One of the foriegners was a huge blond Australian woman (as in tall, large-boned) who had just arrived and was very eagerly trying to learn Thai. This was in Surin & during her off time she took the night train to BKK, 2nd class sleeper.

She wanted the train attendant (a young, slightly built Thai male) to make up her berth (you know, flip the seats over) but didnt know how to say that in Thai', so thought she'd just say "Ï want to sleep". But unfortunately she got the verb sequence for "nawn rap"r eversed.... which as most of you know turns it into a euphemism for sex. Anyhow, making a long story short she wound up having the Thai equivalent of this conversationwith the train attendant:

Her: I want to have sex (thinking she has said "sleep")

He: (looking horrified) No! No! Cannot!!

She: why not?

He: Not here! Can't do that here!

She: why not? This is the sex (meaning to say, sleeping) car.

He: No, no! Cannot, cannot! and ran away, never to return to that car. She had to sit up all night to Bkk.

Back at work, over lunch she complained about the rude service on the train, which puzzled us all so we asked her just what exactly she had said...and collapsed in hysterics when she relayed it all in Thai.

She was so embarassed she never took the train again.

And somewhere out there is a probably now retired employee of State Railways for knows for SURE that farang women are Amazons in search of "Free Sek" !!!!

So THAT´s where the misconception stems from? :-)

Priceless story, thanks!

That's weird... I really think that Thai girls are more promiscuous than the foreigner’s girls, is just a thing to go to the street, or discos, clubs...and look some girls behavior in front of a “falang” guy. And I’m not referring to the prostitutes, also to the rest of the girls.

In other hand, I think is the way a girl act. Guys can be really annoy with girls if they don’t know how to be a lady, if they see a falang or Thai (doesn’t matter, Im just talking about girls in general) drunk, acting like a “mad cow” or the cheapest thing of pat pong, don’t play respect to her.

In my case, I know how to treat with guys, how to make them respect me, and I never had any problems with guys.. Not falang, not Thai..

But…… I must say that Arabic guys are disgusting.. They look at you like u where naked. EW!!

Cheers!

Can't agree with you on the 'Thai girls more promiscuous than farang girls' point; I think it depends on the circumstance and the particular girl.

As for the point about Arab men, to a certain extent I agree. Whilst my wife and I have had several wonderful Arab male friends who were real gentlemen, on several occassions when existing Arab friends have introduced us to their Arab friends, the new aquantance has sat there leering at my wife with their tongue hanging out.

On one such occassion, it was to such an extent that I actually had to pull the guy up about it.

The twist here is that SOME Muslim men (it has also happened with a Pakistani) think that as a Muslim woman with a Western husband (my wife is Malay) my wife is somehow promiscuous. The fact that we've been married for 15 years doesn't always sway their view.

Not something that I get angry about, but an interesting cutural issue.

Somchai, when I was a teen my father went back to school (for a masters degree) and we lived in the University's family student housing apartments (briefly thank god). At the time the Middle Eastern countries were sending alot of students to the US, many of these came with their families so were in the family housing apts too.

I was 13 years old and found myself being hit on by Arab men twice my age (and older), many of whom had daughters my age. Not only did it make me angry but it scared the heck out of me too, as some were quite aggressive about it. I think the general middle eastern perception isn't necessarily about western women, per say, just all women

Anyway, back to topic at hand, I think that bargirls in general will hit on any tourist guy, regardless of whether or not he is with his wife, girlfriend or daughter. Business is, after all, business. Non-bar girls, I don't know, I don't think so. I've never heard any of our couples customers mention it, not even in passing.

As for the point about Arab men, to a certain extent I agree. Whilst my wife and I have had several wonderful Arab male friends who were real gentlemen, on several occassions when existing Arab friends have introduced us to their Arab friends, the new aquantance has sat there leering at my wife with their tongue hanging out.

I'm working on a project in Rome with a Saudi Client, they have team of young engineers, most of whom are on their fist trip outside Saudi.

Our office is blessed, and I mean truly blessed, with some of the most beautiful Italian women you are likely to meet. The weather being what it is right now, they are dressing for the summer in the way it seems only Italian women really can.

The effect on the young Saudis is plain to see - The poor sods are in tourment.

As for the point about Arab men, to a certain extent I agree. Whilst my wife and I have had several wonderful Arab male friends who were real gentlemen, on several occassions when existing Arab friends have introduced us to their Arab friends, the new aquantance has sat there leering at my wife with their tongue hanging out.

I'm working on a project in Rome with a Saudi Client, they have team of young engineers, most of whom are on their fist trip outside Saudi.

Our office is blessed, and I mean truly blessed, with some of the most beautiful Italian women you are likely to meet. The weather being what it is right now, they are dressing for the summer in the way it seems only Italian women really can.

The effect on the young Saudis is plain to see - The poor sods are in tourment.

Tormented Saudis aside, your post conjours up a delightful image of summertime Rome in my mind - balmy days, vespas, well dressed guys and pretty girls in sunglasses and light breezy dresses......an aunt of mine who visited Rome in her student days ended up marrying an Italian and staying there. I first went there to visit her as a 10 year old in 1976 and from that first time it captured my heart....... Sorry - way off thread!

Just thought I'd share that with you, Guesthouse.

Edited July 7, 200620 yr by somchai jones

Anyway, back to topic at hand, I think that bargirls in general will hit on any tourist guy, regardless of whether or not he is with his wife, girlfriend or daughter. Business is, after all, business. Non-bar girls, I don't know, I don't think so. I've never heard any of our couples customers mention it, not even in passing.

It is an unwritten rule* that bargirls should not hit on African, Israeli, Pakistani, Indian, or Arab tourists.

"No good" is the key phrase.

(*because bargirls can't read - just kidding)

Edited July 7, 200620 yr by thohts

well,

1. living in a mideast country, the arab men, yes... hit on anything if the anythng is american (i always felt i had a sign above my head that said free sex or something,.... even after i was married,and to go shopping in the shuk (market) with israeli big blond husband didnt change anything about the reputation american girls had and still have...)

2. now, with thai boyfriend, all his thai worker friends, not knowing i understand thai and dialects, question him about his 'girlfriend' (i'm wearing his one baht gold necklace as engagement thing)... rusia rusia rusia they always say.... how much?? 'meaning how much he pays me!!!, because russian = prostitute or paid long term girlfriend" which i'm not and then they bug him if i have 'friends'....and believe me, i dress as a conservative religous jewish woman dresses i.e. 3/4 long sleeves and skirts, when i'm not working with the animals and i look my age and not exactly a sexbomb type. of course, most of these guys have been w/o a woman for a long time, unless they hit the streets of tel aviv and take the 150 NIS special for 15 minutes of sex....when there is a party, they all start with me, and not as friendly fun, but with one purpose in mind... i've had some tell me that if he gets sent home (visa finished) they would take his place, pay money every month, etc....

he made two close friends swear that if he were sent home, they would protect me as if they were my 'big brothers'...(pi chai), he actually did a swearing ceremony for that!!!!