Farang Or Falang ?

[Simbo]

All day and every day, one hears the word farang. Everyone seems to think thais say falang. Either my hearing is defective, or I hear different from other Westerners. I have yet to hear a thai say falang. Maybe a Thai with a lisp or other speech inpediment says it, I don't know. What do you falangs think ?

[NovaBlue05]

All day and every day, one hears the word farang. Everyone seems to think thais say falang. Either my hearing is defective, or I hear different from other Westerners. I have yet to hear a thai say falang. Maybe a Thai with a lisp or other speech inpediment says it, I don't know. What do you falangs think ?

I believe they pronounce the "R's" as "L's" & vice versa. At least my wife does. "Farang" is correct in western speak.

[h90]

All day and every day, one hears the word farang. Everyone seems to think thais say falang. Either my hearing is defective, or I hear different from other Westerners. I have yet to hear a thai say falang. Maybe a Thai with a lisp or other speech inpediment says it, I don't know. What do you falangs think ?

Maybe region: The southern thais here say farrrang or sometimes just rang (to lazy to speak the "fa-")

Both with a strong clear r.

But I heard in BKK also a lot of falang.

[soic]

I agree 100%. Almost all R's sound like L's. It's a joke with my wife. We always say.... "Alight, ALL Leady! Let's get started". She tries so hard to learn to pronounce all the letters, she and I, along with her sister sometimes sit around and say the english alphabet. I try to help them get past their difficulties by showing them how to hold their mouth, tongues and teeth.. it's a real hoot sometimes. It's the same with Crap at the end of a statement. Language CD and books teach... Crrrrrrap... and you very rarely hear the rrrrr, it's more like Cop... but on TV shows, you can sometimes hear it.

All day and every day, one hears the word farang. Everyone seems to think thais say falang. Either my hearing is defective, or I hear different from other Westerners. I have yet to hear a thai say falang. Maybe a Thai with a lisp or other speech inpediment says it, I don't know. What do you falangs think ?

I believe they pronounce the "R's" as "L's" & vice versa. At least my wife does. "Farang" is correct in western speak.

[Ulysses G.]

We don't meet the high class Thais. Supposedly - according to the guidebooks and Thai language teachers - they all say falang with an "L" sound, but I've never met any in 15 years so I can't be sure.

I would imagine that Cassandra will claim to have never heard anyone say it with a "R" sound - She travels in such upper class circles and all.

Edited July 4, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[thankuverybig]

yes i think its pronounced half way between an r & an l.a rolling of the tongue is what is necessary i think.

i was told by a thai lady that the word farung (or falung) comes from when all the french started to come over here many years ago,& as the thais couldnt get lips around france,it ended up farung.

so basically we are all labelled as froggies.

[GuestHouse]

Neither when 'Khun Dang Chart' will do nicely.

[Martin]

For those of us who were brought up hearing English (and similar languages) as little ones, we got used to getting the consonants right.

However, when speaking the Thai language, the emphasais is on getting the vowels right.

Generally, the consonant between the two vowels in farang/falang tends to be more like a 'gentle' r in Bangkok, and more like a 'gentle' l up here in NE Thailand.

The same goes for mae pen rai/mae pen lie.

Another reason for trying to express the sound, when we write it in our script, as an l, rather than an r, is that the reader won't fall into the trap of speaking it as a rolled r.

One of the best examples that I have come across, of how we get the consonants right but Thais concentrate on the vowels, is to get one of us and a Thai to say 'Phitsanulok".

To me, all that I hear from the Thai is "Ee A Oo Oh"

[Noel]

All day and every day, one hears the word farang. Everyone seems to think thais say falang. Either my hearing is defective, or I hear different from other Westerners. I have yet to hear a thai say falang. Maybe a Thai with a lisp or other speech inpediment says it, I don't know. What do you falangs think ?

Perhaps you only listen to certain Thai TV channels or live in a Thai P.A. booth?

You are a card, 'Sim', or perhaps you should get out more...?

[gburns57au]

The correct pronounciation is farang if you go by the Thai spelling.....however most central Thais pronounce the R as an L.....when you go to the border areas you will hear it pronounced with the R sound more frequently.

[stumonster]

try ' thirty three and a third '

or ask a taxi driver to go to rama 9 .....

[meadish_sweetball]

The correct pronounciation is farang if you go by the Thai spelling.....however most central Thais pronounce the R as an L.....when you go to the border areas you will hear it pronounced with the R sound more frequently.

Correct, but the only border areas where you will hear the clear 'r' is the border to Cambodia, and possibly the border to Malaysia (not sure about this, but it seems to be correct given h90's experience).

In the case of Cambodia it is because the Khmer language has a clear, rolled 'r'... and my hunch is that Bahasa Melayu does, as well.

Along the Lao border and the border to Burma, l and r are interchangeable. The Lao language in Laos, which is very closely related to Thai, does not have an 'r' sound at all, not even in the formal language. The majority of Isaanites (North Easterners) speak dialects close to Lao. Northern Thais, arguably also having more in common languagewise with Laos than Central Thailand, will not have rolling 'r' in every day speech either.

In news broadcasts, the word 'farang' is not used (it is not a formal word, in news broadcasts they will be more specific and mention nationalities, or refer to 'chaao yoorohp' (Europeans), and 'chaao dtaang chaat' (Foreigners)) - but if the news readers would use it, it would be pronounced with a clear rolling 'r' as in Scottish English, Spanish, Italian, Central/Northern Swedish and Finnish. This is the 'correct' official pronunciation of the word - but the common man does not use it, except when attempting to speak formally.

[Boon Mee]

Since 'Farang' is spelled with a "roo rua", I've always prounounced it with a hard 'r'.

[newns.m]

All day and every day, one hears the word farang. Everyone seems to think thais say falang. Either my hearing is defective, or I hear different from other Westerners. I have yet to hear a thai say falang. Maybe a Thai with a lisp or other speech inpediment says it, I don't know. What do you falangs think ?

It IS you Simbo,if you can wait a couple of months i'll bring you a regulation Gas Board traffic cone for us to speak to you with.

Oh,and another thing,you're dribbling from your mouth!

M

[Simbo]

All day and every day, one hears the word farang. Everyone seems to think thais say falang. Either my hearing is defective, or I hear different from other Westerners. I have yet to hear a thai say falang. Maybe a Thai with a lisp or other speech inpediment says it, I don't know. What do you falangs think ?

Perhaps you only listen to certain Thai TV channels or live in a Thai P.A. booth?

You are a card, 'Sim', or perhaps you should get out more...?

As you say,Noer

[Simbo]

All day and every day, one hears the word farang. Everyone seems to think thais say falang. Either my hearing is defective, or I hear different from other Westerners. I have yet to hear a thai say falang. Maybe a Thai with a lisp or other speech inpediment says it, I don't know. What do you falangs think ?

It IS you Simbo,if you can wait a couple of months i'll bring you a regulation Gas Board traffic cone for us to speak to you with.

Oh,and another thing,you're dribbling from your mouth!

M

And Martin, I thought you said Thai visa was a big clique and you did'nt bother with it much now ?

[Tarragona]

The Lao language in Laos, which is very closely related to Thai, does not have an 'r' sound at all, not even in the formal language.

Which, I have read, indicates that the 'r' sound is a later addition to the Thai language.

[jdinasia]

ok ......

sorry to contradict a couple of folks on this one ... Central Thai dies in fact speak it with the r sound ... mostly to lazily to rrrr the sound

Southern Thai uses the R as well ...

Isaan Thai does not.

[Artisan]

In a light-hearted moment, and we have many, my wife, our daughter and I started to play the children's game "I Spy", looking towards Pattaya from the balcony.

My wife's turn went like this "I spy with my little eye, something beginning with 'L'". The answers went like this "Light....No", "Lawn....No", "Laundry....No", "Land....No", "Louvre....No", "Leg....No", etc, etc.

After a few minutes of deep thought, we gave up and asked for the answer............"Load".

She's from Burirum.

[smartecosse]

In a light-hearted moment, and we have many, my wife, our daughter and I started to play the children's game "I Spy", looking towards Pattaya from the balcony.

My wife's turn went like this "I spy with my little eye, something beginning with 'L'". The answers went like this "Light....No", "Lawn....No", "Laundry....No", "Land....No", "Louvre....No", "Leg....No", etc, etc.

After a few minutes of deep thought, we gave up and asked for the answer............"Load".

She's from Burirum.

that should be a fun game to play then

[sbk]

ok ......

sorry to contradict a couple of folks on this one ... Central Thai dies in fact speak it with the r sound ... mostly to lazily to rrrr the sound

Southern Thai uses the R as well ...

Isaan Thai does not.

This is true jdinasia, Southern Thai (and I mean the dialect not Yawi) pronounces the r very distinctly. It is ror reua and so is a rolled "r" sound. Northerners just pronounce it incorrectly is all

[wamberal]

We have had this debate before. I worked for a number of years with a group of well-educated Thais, and they always favoured the softer "r" sound.

[Kananga]

Since 'Farang' is spelled with a "roo rua", I've always prounounced it with a hard 'r'.

Spot on. Glad to see one 'expert' knows what he is talking about.

It's a good way to tell if someone learnt their Thai from a tattoed girl in a bar or not.

If you hear someone ask for 100 delicious hot guavas and ask for loi aloi lorn falang thank you very mahk you know they haven't stepped foot in Thammasat.

[meadish_sweetball]

ok ......

sorry to contradict a couple of folks on this one ... Central Thai dies in fact speak it with the r sound ... mostly to lazily to rrrr the sound

Southern Thai uses the R as well ...

Isaan Thai does not.

This is true jdinasia, Southern Thai (and I mean the dialect not Yawi) pronounces the r very distinctly. It is ror reua and so is a rolled "r" sound. Northerners just pronounce it incorrectly is all

I am sure you are right about the South sbk - it is definitely not my area.

sorry to contradict a couple of folks on this one ... Central Thai dies in fact speak it with the r sound ... mostly to lazily to rrrr the sound

Not sure I understand what you mean here? A single, lax flap instead of a trill? And if so, how does it differ phonetically from a L ล in this particular word?

The Bangkok dialect is the most important influence on the entire Thai language sphere and the center of the Central Thai dialect. The lower and middle class of Bangkok do not have a distinct rolled 'r' such as the one used by news readers. If the majority of a dialect does not pronounce a sound, it is not really about being 'lazy' anymore, it is about a developing speech pattern of two sounds merging into one.

In the Chinese community, some pronounce ร as if it were a Chinese 'r', which sounds similar to an American 'r' - a liquid with a curled tongue, not a trill or a flap.

Then you have the heavily trilled, frontal 'r' of the newsreaders and people attempting to speak formally, and lastly you have the single flap sound that is virtually indistinguishable from the liquid ล lor ling.

As for Northerners, you can only say they pronounce 'r' incorrectly from the formal Central Thai point of view - but it is doubtful whether their own Northern dialect, like Lao, has ever had a frontal, trilled 'r' sound.

[Tarragona]

If you hear someone ask for 100 delicious hot guavas and ask for loi aloi lorn falang thank you very mahk you know they haven't stepped foot in Thammasat.

Maybe not Thammasat

but I've worked in a couple of universities and it's very common to hear the Thai ajarns bemoaning the way the students are butchering their own language- and not using the 'r' is one of the biggest complaints. As in any other language, use varies in context, so it's not just that people either use one or the other and it means they're educated or uneducated. Knowing when you can be more casual and when to speak proper is the important thing.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Tarragona

[meadish_sweetball]

Since 'Farang' is spelled with a "roo rua", I've always prounounced it with a hard 'r'.

Spot on. Glad to see one 'expert' knows what he is talking about.

It's a good way to tell if someone learnt their Thai from a tattoed girl in a bar or not.

If you hear someone ask for 100 delicious hot guavas and ask for loi aloi lorn falang thank you very mahk you know they haven't stepped foot in Thammasat.

Interesting. Do you yourself know the correct grammar? Because the grammar in your example sentence is a total emulation of English grammar and has the words in the wrong positions. Not Thai.

[Kananga]

Since 'Farang' is spelled with a "roo rua", I've always prounounced it with a hard 'r'.

Spot on. Glad to see one 'expert' knows what he is talking about.

It's a good way to tell if someone learnt their Thai from a tattoed girl in a bar or not.

If you hear someone ask for 100 delicious hot guavas and ask for loi aloi lorn falang thank you very mahk you know they haven't stepped foot in Thammasat.

Interesting. Do you yourself know the correct grammar? Because the grammar in your example sentence is a total emulation of English grammar and has the words in the wrong positions. Not Thai.

My, you're on the ball today. If you look very hard you will see that I even wrote 'thank you very' in English. Incorrect grammar, pronounciation (spelling) and the insertion of English words was indeed deliberate. I'm surprised you had to ask.

[meadish_sweetball]

That's good. So do you know the correct grammar in Thai?

[Kananga]

That's good. So do you know the correct grammar in Thai?

Absolutely. Will you apologise for being pedantic and for trying to save face (not to mention wasting my time) if I show you?

[meadish_sweetball]

No need to get your guard up, I was really just being curious as I have not seen you participate in the Thai language forum. If you feel I am wasting your time you can of course refrain from answering.