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New Thai PM expected in week of Aug 18


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Posted

Why should you be concerned? Oh , I don't know, what did HRW have to say now? Oh yes,here it is,

“The interim constitution attempts to give legal justification to the sweeping and unaccountable power taken by the military junta,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “Instead of paving the way for a return to democratic, civilian rule, the Thai junta has granted itself unchecked authority to do almost anything it wants, including committing rights abuses with impunity.”

Section 44 provides the NCPO with wide discretion to issue orders and undertake acts the military authorities deem appropriate, regardless of the human rights implications. Specifically, “where the head of the NCPO is of opinion that it is necessary for the benefit of reforms in any field, or to strengthen public unity and harmony, or for the prevention, disruption or suppression of any act that undermines public peace and order or national security, the monarchy, national economics or administration of State affairs,” the head of the NCPO is empowered to “issue orders, suspend or act as deemed necessary. … Such actions are completely legal and constitutional.This sweeping power is to be carried out without any judicial or other oversight. The NCPO head only needs to report his decisions and actions to the National Legislative Assembly and the prime minister immediately after they are taken.

Section 48 of the interim constitution provides that NCPO members and anyone carrying out actions on behalf of the NCPO, including the May 22 coup, “shall be absolutely exempted from any wrongdoing, responsibility and liabilities.” Despite this provision, international human rights law ensures the right to a remedy for human rights violations and places a duty on governments to investigate allegations of serious human rights violations and prosecute those responsible, Human Rights Watch said.

No, nothing to worry about here, nothing to see, keep on moving........

(Now lets go back to more interesting stuff.... i will just note ratcatcher, ginjag, rubl, nongkaikid and the others yellow were left speechless by your message as usual)

When Yingluck got elected, she was hold responsible for any of her action. But when the yellow do steal the power they do reject any responsability.

What a bunch of cowards and hypocrites.

No surprise that the yellow on this forum, keep quiet, because once again you (fab) did provide us again one more fact!

Red trolls in love, how sweet ! wub.pngwub.pngwub.png

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Posted

Given the facts in this case, I would have thought ' Dictator ' was a more appropriate title than PM......or perhaps Senior Spokesman. SS...........hmm , well if the cap fits etc.

Posted

Somewhat speechless indeed. A few posters going on and on about the 'real' democracy Thailand had before 2006 with the 1997 constitution. I'm too speechless still to search for one of dear publicus posts where he wrote that the 2007 constitution was flawed as based on the flawed 1997 constitution.

Anyway, it would seem that some do not know what a democracy is or maybe don't care. It is to be hoped the NRC/CDC work will give us a better base for democracy as what politicians made of it was certainly not a democracy as some know it.

To keep on complaining about the PM to be appointed is simply ignoring that continuing the circumstances we had before the coup and insisting the circumstances are kept / repeated, is like being somewhat obdurate and unwilling to face progress.

Posted

To conclude, there seems to be no constitutional objection to Gen Prayuth being appointed PM.

A good plan to enhance his retirement benefits from the Army

Apart from that any constructive comment?

Posted

Somewhat speechless indeed. A few posters going on and on about the 'real' democracy Thailand had before 2006 with the 1997 constitution. I'm too speechless still to search for one of dear publicus posts where he wrote that the 2007 constitution was flawed as based on the flawed 1997 constitution. Anyway, it would seem that some do not know what a democracy is or maybe don't care. It is to be hoped the NRC/CDC work will give us a better base for democracy as what politicians made of it was certainly not a democracy as some know it. To keep on complaining about the PM to be appointed is simply ignoring that continuing the circumstances we had before the coup and insisting the circumstances are kept / repeated, is like being somewhat obdurate and unwilling to face progress.

You see another military coup and another rewrite of the constitution at the direction of the military as progress?

Democracy requires 'on-the-job' training for both voters and politicians--there's a vote, the government governs, then the voters decide if the last batch of elected officials did a good enough job or if a new batch is warranted. It's not perfect, but it's better than cycles of elections, losers create chaos by mobbing the streets in protests that exceed all legal bounds, then the military stages another coup.

By the way, "the circumstances we had before the coup", when there was an attempt to have an election in July when both the PTP and the Democrats were at a low point of popularity due to the protests, would have been an excellent opportunity to let the voters choose some new leaders with new ideas. Too bad it wasn't given a chance.

  • Like 1
Posted

Somewhat speechless indeed. A few posters going on and on about the 'real' democracy Thailand had before 2006 with the 1997 constitution. I'm too speechless still to search for one of dear publicus posts where he wrote that the 2007 constitution was flawed as based on the flawed 1997 constitution. Anyway, it would seem that some do not know what a democracy is or maybe don't care. It is to be hoped the NRC/CDC work will give us a better base for democracy as what politicians made of it was certainly not a democracy as some know it. To keep on complaining about the PM to be appointed is simply ignoring that continuing the circumstances we had before the coup and insisting the circumstances are kept / repeated, is like being somewhat obdurate and unwilling to face progress.

You see another military coup and another rewrite of the constitution at the direction of the military as progress?

Democracy requires 'on-the-job' training for both voters and politicians--there's a vote, the government governs, then the voters decide if the last batch of elected officials did a good enough job or if a new batch is warranted. It's not perfect, but it's better than cycles of elections, losers create chaos by mobbing the streets in protests that exceed all legal bounds, then the military stages another coup.

By the way, "the circumstances we had before the coup", when there was an attempt to have an election in July when both the PTP and the Democrats were at a low point of popularity due to the protests, would have been an excellent opportunity to let the voters choose some new leaders with new ideas. Too bad it wasn't given a chance.

It's nice that democracy requires on the job training. Only works it there's on the job feedback and correction. No, I don't mean elections as those may both come too late and simply let the circus continue without changes.

As I wrote the Western World had democracy and population grow up together during two centuries. It would be nice if we can spare the Thai population the pain and anguish of those centuries. If that requires a year of less democratic freedom, so be it. The 'democratic' freedom Thailand had last year wasn't that spectacular either.

Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL.

BTW just like the Yingluck Administration tried to push through a Feb2 election, a July or August election under identical circumstances would just bring more misery. Do you really wish that upon the Thai population? Do you really dislike them so much? Do you really continue about democracy as 'we had it before' which only saw a criminal fugitive controlled, Pheu Thai led government trying to push a blanket amnesty bill for the criminal and even for their own two years in office? Change doesn't come easy to you, now does it?

Posted

Somewhat speechless indeed. A few posters going on and on about the 'real' democracy Thailand had before 2006 with the 1997 constitution. I'm too speechless still to search for one of dear publicus posts where he wrote that the 2007 constitution was flawed as based on the flawed 1997 constitution. Anyway, it would seem that some do not know what a democracy is or maybe don't care. It is to be hoped the NRC/CDC work will give us a better base for democracy as what politicians made of it was certainly not a democracy as some know it. To keep on complaining about the PM to be appointed is simply ignoring that continuing the circumstances we had before the coup and insisting the circumstances are kept / repeated, is like being somewhat obdurate and unwilling to face progress.

You see another military coup and another rewrite of the constitution at the direction of the military as progress?

Democracy requires 'on-the-job' training for both voters and politicians--there's a vote, the government governs, then the voters decide if the last batch of elected officials did a good enough job or if a new batch is warranted. It's not perfect, but it's better than cycles of elections, losers create chaos by mobbing the streets in protests that exceed all legal bounds, then the military stages another coup.

By the way, "the circumstances we had before the coup", when there was an attempt to have an election in July when both the PTP and the Democrats were at a low point of popularity due to the protests, would have been an excellent opportunity to let the voters choose some new leaders with new ideas. Too bad it wasn't given a chance.

It's nice that democracy requires on the job training. Only works it there's on the job feedback and correction. No, I don't mean elections as those may both come too late and simply let the circus continue without changes.

As I wrote the Western World had democracy and population grow up together during two centuries. It would be nice if we can spare the Thai population the pain and anguish of those centuries. If that requires a year of less democratic freedom, so be it. The 'democratic' freedom Thailand had last year wasn't that spectacular either.

Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL.

BTW just like the Yingluck Administration tried to push through a Feb2 election, a July or August election under identical circumstances would just bring more misery. Do you really wish that upon the Thai population? Do you really dislike them so much? Do you really continue about democracy as 'we had it before' which only saw a criminal fugitive controlled, Pheu Thai led government trying to push a blanket amnesty bill for the criminal and even for their own two years in office? Change doesn't come easy to you, now does it?

rubl, how many times do you need to be told that the scheduled elections on February 2nd were not "pushed through" as you keep on suggesting but were in keeping with the constitution with regard to the "old" constitution timing requirements. In case you missed the point, scheduled elections allow the Thai's to change their government, a luxury not afforded them by the present junta.

Though I must admit I am touched by yours and others continued love affair with all things military, particularly your belief they will hand over government completely to civilians in the year/s to come. Section 44, rubl, Section 44 - let's just see if that particular section, in whatever new guise, is retained in the "new" constitution, shall we?

  • Like 1
Posted

Why should you be concerned? Oh , I don't know, what did HRW have to say now? Oh yes,here it is,

“The interim constitution attempts to give legal justification to the sweeping and unaccountable power taken by the military junta,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “Instead of paving the way for a return to democratic, civilian rule, the Thai junta has granted itself unchecked authority to do almost anything it wants, including committing rights abuses with impunity.”

Section 44 provides the NCPO with wide discretion to issue orders and undertake acts the military authorities deem appropriate, regardless of the human rights implications. Specifically, “where the head of the NCPO is of opinion that it is necessary for the benefit of reforms in any field, or to strengthen public unity and harmony, or for the prevention, disruption or suppression of any act that undermines public peace and order or national security, the monarchy, national economics or administration of State affairs,” the head of the NCPO is empowered to “issue orders, suspend or act as deemed necessary. … Such actions are completely legal and constitutional.This sweeping power is to be carried out without any judicial or other oversight. The NCPO head only needs to report his decisions and actions to the National Legislative Assembly and the prime minister immediately after they are taken.

Section 48 of the interim constitution provides that NCPO members and anyone carrying out actions on behalf of the NCPO, including the May 22 coup, “shall be absolutely exempted from any wrongdoing, responsibility and liabilities.” Despite this provision, international human rights law ensures the right to a remedy for human rights violations and places a duty on governments to investigate allegations of serious human rights violations and prosecute those responsible, Human Rights Watch said.

No, nothing to worry about here, nothing to see, keep on moving........

(Now lets go back to more interesting stuff.... i will just note ratcatcher, ginjag, rubl, nongkaikid and the others yellow were left speechless by your message as usual)

When Yingluck got elected, she was hold responsible for any of her action. But when the yellow do steal the power they do reject any responsability.

What a bunch of cowards and hypocrites.

No surprise that the yellow on this forum, keep quiet, because once again you (fab) did provide us again one more fact!

Red trolls in love, how sweet ! wub.pngwub.pngwub.png

Do you want to post to all, ask the mods if it's possible.

I note you said quote, "and the others" you do not have time to name them all, like on TVF the majority against your agenda rhetoric is over 90 % with your 10 % lagging. strange if there was a poll on TVF your party would lose it's deposit.

Posted

Somewhat speechless indeed. A few posters going on and on about the 'real' democracy Thailand had before 2006 with the 1997 constitution. I'm too speechless still to search for one of dear publicus posts where he wrote that the 2007 constitution was flawed as based on the flawed 1997 constitution. Anyway, it would seem that some do not know what a democracy is or maybe don't care. It is to be hoped the NRC/CDC work will give us a better base for democracy as what politicians made of it was certainly not a democracy as some know it. To keep on complaining about the PM to be appointed is simply ignoring that continuing the circumstances we had before the coup and insisting the circumstances are kept / repeated, is like being somewhat obdurate and unwilling to face progress.

You see another military coup and another rewrite of the constitution at the direction of the military as progress?

Democracy requires 'on-the-job' training for both voters and politicians--there's a vote, the government governs, then the voters decide if the last batch of elected officials did a good enough job or if a new batch is warranted. It's not perfect, but it's better than cycles of elections, losers create chaos by mobbing the streets in protests that exceed all legal bounds, then the military stages another coup.

By the way, "the circumstances we had before the coup", when there was an attempt to have an election in July when both the PTP and the Democrats were at a low point of popularity due to the protests, would have been an excellent opportunity to let the voters choose some new leaders with new ideas. Too bad it wasn't given a chance.

It's nice that democracy requires on the job training. Only works it there's on the job feedback and correction. No, I don't mean elections as those may both come too late and simply let the circus continue without changes.

As I wrote the Western World had democracy and population grow up together during two centuries. It would be nice if we can spare the Thai population the pain and anguish of those centuries. If that requires a year of less democratic freedom, so be it. The 'democratic' freedom Thailand had last year wasn't that spectacular either.

Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL.

BTW just like the Yingluck Administration tried to push through a Feb2 election, a July or August election under identical circumstances would just bring more misery. Do you really wish that upon the Thai population? Do you really dislike them so much? Do you really continue about democracy as 'we had it before' which only saw a criminal fugitive controlled, Pheu Thai led government trying to push a blanket amnesty bill for the criminal and even for their own two years in office? Change doesn't come easy to you, now does it?

"Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL."

Your buzzwords are sufficiently vague that I don't know what kind of education you're advocating, but I'm confident the military has neither the qualifications nor the desire to teach the Thai population about democracy. I also have much more confidence in the ability of the Thai people to grasp the concept of democracy than you do.

By the misery of elections, are you referring to Suthep and his followers illegally obstructing them? The only thing keeping them going was the hope of a coup, had the military made it clear there would be no coup they would have become a spent force and elections could have proceeded.

It's interesting that the only party opposing elections was the Democrats (I think it was an article in Foreign Affairs magazine where I read that, I can dig up a reference if you don't believe me), and as I indicated, the two parties that almost certainly would have suffered in the elections were the PTP and the Democrats. The PTP was pushing for elections even though they were at a low point in popularity, and the Democrats opposed them. Which party was more democratic?

You keep bringing up the amnesty bill. Yes the government pushed for it, the push failed, and the government dropped it. What's your point?

  • Like 2
Posted

Somewhat speechless indeed. A few posters going on and on about the 'real' democracy Thailand had before 2006 with the 1997 constitution. I'm too speechless still to search for one of dear publicus posts where he wrote that the 2007 constitution was flawed as based on the flawed 1997 constitution. Anyway, it would seem that some do not know what a democracy is or maybe don't care. It is to be hoped the NRC/CDC work will give us a better base for democracy as what politicians made of it was certainly not a democracy as some know it. To keep on complaining about the PM to be appointed is simply ignoring that continuing the circumstances we had before the coup and insisting the circumstances are kept / repeated, is like being somewhat obdurate and unwilling to face progress.

You see another military coup and another rewrite of the constitution at the direction of the military as progress?

Democracy requires 'on-the-job' training for both voters and politicians--there's a vote, the government governs, then the voters decide if the last batch of elected officials did a good enough job or if a new batch is warranted. It's not perfect, but it's better than cycles of elections, losers create chaos by mobbing the streets in protests that exceed all legal bounds, then the military stages another coup.

By the way, "the circumstances we had before the coup", when there was an attempt to have an election in July when both the PTP and the Democrats were at a low point of popularity due to the protests, would have been an excellent opportunity to let the voters choose some new leaders with new ideas. Too bad it wasn't given a chance.

It's nice that democracy requires on the job training. Only works it there's on the job feedback and correction. No, I don't mean elections as those may both come too late and simply let the circus continue without changes.

As I wrote the Western World had democracy and population grow up together during two centuries. It would be nice if we can spare the Thai population the pain and anguish of those centuries. If that requires a year of less democratic freedom, so be it. The 'democratic' freedom Thailand had last year wasn't that spectacular either.

Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL.

BTW just like the Yingluck Administration tried to push through a Feb2 election, a July or August election under identical circumstances would just bring more misery. Do you really wish that upon the Thai population? Do you really dislike them so much? Do you really continue about democracy as 'we had it before' which only saw a criminal fugitive controlled, Pheu Thai led government trying to push a blanket amnesty bill for the criminal and even for their own two years in office? Change doesn't come easy to you, now does it?

rubl, how many times do you need to be told that the scheduled elections on February 2nd were not "pushed through" as you keep on suggesting but were in keeping with the constitution with regard to the "old" constitution timing requirements. In case you missed the point, scheduled elections allow the Thai's to change their government, a luxury not afforded them by the present junta.

Though I must admit I am touched by yours and others continued love affair with all things military, particularly your belief they will hand over government completely to civilians in the year/s to come. Section 44, rubl, Section 44 - let's just see if that particular section, in whatever new guise, is retained in the "new" constitution, shall we?

Pushed through as in maintaining that they could not be postponed.

As for 'love affair', those are your wind-up words.

and don't forget "respect my vote even after it has been counted'. Democracy is more than elections.

Posted

Somewhat speechless indeed. A few posters going on and on about the 'real' democracy Thailand had before 2006 with the 1997 constitution. I'm too speechless still to search for one of dear publicus posts where he wrote that the 2007 constitution was flawed as based on the flawed 1997 constitution. Anyway, it would seem that some do not know what a democracy is or maybe don't care. It is to be hoped the NRC/CDC work will give us a better base for democracy as what politicians made of it was certainly not a democracy as some know it. To keep on complaining about the PM to be appointed is simply ignoring that continuing the circumstances we had before the coup and insisting the circumstances are kept / repeated, is like being somewhat obdurate and unwilling to face progress.

You see another military coup and another rewrite of the constitution at the direction of the military as progress?

Democracy requires 'on-the-job' training for both voters and politicians--there's a vote, the government governs, then the voters decide if the last batch of elected officials did a good enough job or if a new batch is warranted. It's not perfect, but it's better than cycles of elections, losers create chaos by mobbing the streets in protests that exceed all legal bounds, then the military stages another coup.

By the way, "the circumstances we had before the coup", when there was an attempt to have an election in July when both the PTP and the Democrats were at a low point of popularity due to the protests, would have been an excellent opportunity to let the voters choose some new leaders with new ideas. Too bad it wasn't given a chance.

It's nice that democracy requires on the job training. Only works it there's on the job feedback and correction. No, I don't mean elections as those may both come too late and simply let the circus continue without changes.

As I wrote the Western World had democracy and population grow up together during two centuries. It would be nice if we can spare the Thai population the pain and anguish of those centuries. If that requires a year of less democratic freedom, so be it. The 'democratic' freedom Thailand had last year wasn't that spectacular either.

Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL.

BTW just like the Yingluck Administration tried to push through a Feb2 election, a July or August election under identical circumstances would just bring more misery. Do you really wish that upon the Thai population? Do you really dislike them so much? Do you really continue about democracy as 'we had it before' which only saw a criminal fugitive controlled, Pheu Thai led government trying to push a blanket amnesty bill for the criminal and even for their own two years in office? Change doesn't come easy to you, now does it?

"Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL."

Your buzzwords are sufficiently vague that I don't know what kind of education you're advocating, but I'm confident the military has neither the qualifications nor the desire to teach the Thai population about democracy. I also have much more confidence in the ability of the Thai people to grasp the concept of democracy than you do.

By the misery of elections, are you referring to Suthep and his followers illegally obstructing them? The only thing keeping them going was the hope of a coup, had the military made it clear there would be no coup they would have become a spent force and elections could have proceeded.

It's interesting that the only party opposing elections was the Democrats (I think it was an article in Foreign Affairs magazine where I read that, I can dig up a reference if you don't believe me), and as I indicated, the two parties that almost certainly would have suffered in the elections were the PTP and the Democrats. The PTP was pushing for elections even though they were at a low point in popularity, and the Democrats opposed them. Which party was more democratic?

You keep bringing up the amnesty bill. Yes the government pushed for it, the push failed, and the government dropped it. What's your point?

The Yingluck government dropped six 'amnesty bills' which had not advanced through parliament beyond being proposed.

The 'blanket amnesty bill' could not be dropped legally as it had to remain as 'rejected by the Senate' for 180 days after which a simple majority vote in parliament could have made it law. If the anti-government had listened to Ms. Yingluck's "please go home, all's not done yet" the Senate might have concluded "no one against, so why not". Calling the anti-government protesters undemocratic from the moment the protests started didn't help either.

Again democracy is not just elections which can and are manipulated by a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai party which using the UDD to control red-shirts into believing the 'saviour' Thaksin. The UDD even managed to led red-shirt forget that the 'blanket amnesty bill' would require cases against Abhisit/Suthep' to be dropped.

As for low point of popularity for Pheu Thai, that's your opinion, although the unofficial election results in North and NorthEast seem to confirm that statement. Imagine the reaction of the red-shirts if yet another election would have been 'stolen' from them.

Anyway, we try to move forward and with some luck the NRC and CDC get broad input to get reforms on the road to a real democracy. This time for ALL, not just traditional powergroups and other opportunists.

Posted

You see another military coup and another rewrite of the constitution at the direction of the military as progress?

Democracy requires 'on-the-job' training for both voters and politicians--there's a vote, the government governs, then the voters decide if the last batch of elected officials did a good enough job or if a new batch is warranted. It's not perfect, but it's better than cycles of elections, losers create chaos by mobbing the streets in protests that exceed all legal bounds, then the military stages another coup.

By the way, "the circumstances we had before the coup", when there was an attempt to have an election in July when both the PTP and the Democrats were at a low point of popularity due to the protests, would have been an excellent opportunity to let the voters choose some new leaders with new ideas. Too bad it wasn't given a chance.

It's nice that democracy requires on the job training. Only works it there's on the job feedback and correction. No, I don't mean elections as those may both come too late and simply let the circus continue without changes.

As I wrote the Western World had democracy and population grow up together during two centuries. It would be nice if we can spare the Thai population the pain and anguish of those centuries. If that requires a year of less democratic freedom, so be it. The 'democratic' freedom Thailand had last year wasn't that spectacular either.

Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL.

BTW just like the Yingluck Administration tried to push through a Feb2 election, a July or August election under identical circumstances would just bring more misery. Do you really wish that upon the Thai population? Do you really dislike them so much? Do you really continue about democracy as 'we had it before' which only saw a criminal fugitive controlled, Pheu Thai led government trying to push a blanket amnesty bill for the criminal and even for their own two years in office? Change doesn't come easy to you, now does it?

"Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL."

Your buzzwords are sufficiently vague that I don't know what kind of education you're advocating, but I'm confident the military has neither the qualifications nor the desire to teach the Thai population about democracy. I also have much more confidence in the ability of the Thai people to grasp the concept of democracy than you do.

By the misery of elections, are you referring to Suthep and his followers illegally obstructing them? The only thing keeping them going was the hope of a coup, had the military made it clear there would be no coup they would have become a spent force and elections could have proceeded.

It's interesting that the only party opposing elections was the Democrats (I think it was an article in Foreign Affairs magazine where I read that, I can dig up a reference if you don't believe me), and as I indicated, the two parties that almost certainly would have suffered in the elections were the PTP and the Democrats. The PTP was pushing for elections even though they were at a low point in popularity, and the Democrats opposed them. Which party was more democratic?

You keep bringing up the amnesty bill. Yes the government pushed for it, the push failed, and the government dropped it. What's your point?

The Yingluck government dropped six 'amnesty bills' which had not advanced through parliament beyond being proposed.

The 'blanket amnesty bill' could not be dropped legally as it had to remain as 'rejected by the Senate' for 180 days after which a simple majority vote in parliament could have made it law. If the anti-government had listened to Ms. Yingluck's "please go home, all's not done yet" the Senate might have concluded "no one against, so why not". Calling the anti-government protesters undemocratic from the moment the protests started didn't help either.

Again democracy is not just elections which can and are manipulated by a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai party which using the UDD to control red-shirts into believing the 'saviour' Thaksin. The UDD even managed to led red-shirt forget that the 'blanket amnesty bill' would require cases against Abhisit/Suthep' to be dropped.

As for low point of popularity for Pheu Thai, that's your opinion, although the unofficial election results in North and NorthEast seem to confirm that statement. Imagine the reaction of the red-shirts if yet another election would have been 'stolen' from them.

Anyway, we try to move forward and with some luck the NRC and CDC get broad input to get reforms on the road to a real democracy. This time for ALL, not just traditional powergroups and other opportunists.

It's standard in politics to keep pushing a lost cause, and your second paragraph indicates it was being done in accordance with the constitution.

Regarding Thaksin as a savior, the same could be said about the Democrats attitude to Suthep.

The low point in popularity came in large part because many redshirts were outraged about the breadth of the amnesty bill that would have granted amnesty to many government officials implicated in the 2010 government assault on protesters. I don't know what gave you the idea the redshirts forgot that. I don't think they would have objected if their drop in support led to a drop in votes for the PTP.

Your arguments against democracy are getting weak. Your faith in the military providing "real democracy" is misplaced. I'm sure the constitution they will impose on Thailand will make that clear to most of the world, but maybe not you.

  • Like 1
Posted

"Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL."

Your buzzwords are sufficiently vague that I don't know what kind of education you're advocating, but I'm confident the military has neither the qualifications nor the desire to teach the Thai population about democracy. I also have much more confidence in the ability of the Thai people to grasp the concept of democracy than you do.

By the misery of elections, are you referring to Suthep and his followers illegally obstructing them? The only thing keeping them going was the hope of a coup, had the military made it clear there would be no coup they would have become a spent force and elections could have proceeded.

It's interesting that the only party opposing elections was the Democrats (I think it was an article in Foreign Affairs magazine where I read that, I can dig up a reference if you don't believe me), and as I indicated, the two parties that almost certainly would have suffered in the elections were the PTP and the Democrats. The PTP was pushing for elections even though they were at a low point in popularity, and the Democrats opposed them. Which party was more democratic?

You keep bringing up the amnesty bill. Yes the government pushed for it, the push failed, and the government dropped it. What's your point?

The Yingluck government dropped six 'amnesty bills' which had not advanced through parliament beyond being proposed.

The 'blanket amnesty bill' could not be dropped legally as it had to remain as 'rejected by the Senate' for 180 days after which a simple majority vote in parliament could have made it law. If the anti-government had listened to Ms. Yingluck's "please go home, all's not done yet" the Senate might have concluded "no one against, so why not". Calling the anti-government protesters undemocratic from the moment the protests started didn't help either.

Again democracy is not just elections which can and are manipulated by a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai party which using the UDD to control red-shirts into believing the 'saviour' Thaksin. The UDD even managed to led red-shirt forget that the 'blanket amnesty bill' would require cases against Abhisit/Suthep' to be dropped.

As for low point of popularity for Pheu Thai, that's your opinion, although the unofficial election results in North and NorthEast seem to confirm that statement. Imagine the reaction of the red-shirts if yet another election would have been 'stolen' from them.

Anyway, we try to move forward and with some luck the NRC and CDC get broad input to get reforms on the road to a real democracy. This time for ALL, not just traditional powergroups and other opportunists.

It's standard in politics to keep pushing a lost cause, and your second paragraph indicates it was being done in accordance with the constitution.

Regarding Thaksin as a savior, the same could be said about the Democrats attitude to Suthep.

The low point in popularity came in large part because many redshirts were outraged about the breadth of the amnesty bill that would have granted amnesty to many government officials implicated in the 2010 government assault on protesters. I don't know what gave you the idea the redshirts forgot that. I don't think they would have objected if their drop in support led to a drop in votes for the PTP.

Your arguments against democracy are getting weak. Your faith in the military providing "real democracy" is misplaced. I'm sure the constitution they will impose on Thailand will make that clear to most of the world, but maybe not you.

'lost cause'? Our dear Thaksin's amnesty (and that of his sister) a lost cause? That's your opinion, but one I hope to come true.

The Democrat party's attitude towards Suthep is not the same as Pheu Thai / UDD towards Thaksin. Most Democrats wouldn't mind if Phra Suthep stayed in the temple.

The red-shirts were manipulated by their UDD leadership to accept the Yingluck government had dropped the amnesty bill (which they hadn't), forget some UDD leaders and red-shirts being Pheu Thai MP voted in favour, or in the case of Nattuwut, Dr. weng and the late seh Daengs daughter 'only' abstained, and defending the Isaan darling's government was more important as all should know.

My arguments are not against democracy, only against trying to defend the corrupted democracy Thailand had.

More effort should be put in helping the NRC and CDC. That's were Thailand gets a second chance.

PS your " I don't think they would have objected if their drop in support led to a drop in votes for the PTP." seems to suggest that for some anything would be acceptable as long as it doesn't lead to drop in Pheu Thai votes, even if it's a blanket amnesty bill?

Posted

You are just being naïve rubl. The military isn't trying to save democracy, it isn't trying to end corruption either, as that would costs them dearly.

They do have a pretty good marketing department, as you seem to believe their <deleted>.

I am at a loss as to why you show such great confidence in the military doing the right thing, considering less than 7 years ago they presented the 2007 constitution, drafted during 2006/2007 after the coup against Thaksin.

They messed up then, why do you think they suddenly are up to the task, and more importantly, will they ensure they stop being a political factor, as they shouldn't be in any true democracy ?

I already know the answer to those questions Rubl, apparently it will take you a few more years to find out...

  • Like 1
Posted

You are just being naïve rubl. The military isn't trying to save democracy, it isn't trying to end corruption either, as that would costs them dearly.

They do have a pretty good marketing department, as you seem to believe their <deleted>.

I am at a loss as to why you show such great confidence in the military doing the right thing, considering less than 7 years ago they presented the 2007 constitution, drafted during 2006/2007 after the coup against Thaksin.

They messed up then, why do you think they suddenly are up to the task, and more importantly, will they ensure they stop being a political factor, as they shouldn't be in any true democracy ?

I already know the answer to those questions Rubl, apparently it will take you a few more years to find out...

Hey General there is a poster on TVF that has so much insider info about what you are not doing. He has no confidence in you because of 7 years ago.- and then you messed it up, so you are not up to it now.

He didn't may I add about the mess Thaksin created for coup's to happen of late. Just sour grapes General-speak soon,

Posted

Why would there be sour grapes ? What does Thaksin have to do with anything, He wasn't the one drafting the 2007 constitution.

Just answer the questions, why do you believe they are up to the task now,(after all, if we cannot forget Thaksin's history, it is only fair to consider the military's history as well) and will they ensure they stop being a political factor.

Posted

"Item one on the agenda should be education for the Thai population. Self-reliance, self-entitlement, equality by law and in reality effective on ALL."

Your buzzwords are sufficiently vague that I don't know what kind of education you're advocating, but I'm confident the military has neither the qualifications nor the desire to teach the Thai population about democracy. I also have much more confidence in the ability of the Thai people to grasp the concept of democracy than you do.

By the misery of elections, are you referring to Suthep and his followers illegally obstructing them? The only thing keeping them going was the hope of a coup, had the military made it clear there would be no coup they would have become a spent force and elections could have proceeded.

It's interesting that the only party opposing elections was the Democrats (I think it was an article in Foreign Affairs magazine where I read that, I can dig up a reference if you don't believe me), and as I indicated, the two parties that almost certainly would have suffered in the elections were the PTP and the Democrats. The PTP was pushing for elections even though they were at a low point in popularity, and the Democrats opposed them. Which party was more democratic?

You keep bringing up the amnesty bill. Yes the government pushed for it, the push failed, and the government dropped it. What's your point?

The Yingluck government dropped six 'amnesty bills' which had not advanced through parliament beyond being proposed.

The 'blanket amnesty bill' could not be dropped legally as it had to remain as 'rejected by the Senate' for 180 days after which a simple majority vote in parliament could have made it law. If the anti-government had listened to Ms. Yingluck's "please go home, all's not done yet" the Senate might have concluded "no one against, so why not". Calling the anti-government protesters undemocratic from the moment the protests started didn't help either.

Again democracy is not just elections which can and are manipulated by a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai party which using the UDD to control red-shirts into believing the 'saviour' Thaksin. The UDD even managed to led red-shirt forget that the 'blanket amnesty bill' would require cases against Abhisit/Suthep' to be dropped.

As for low point of popularity for Pheu Thai, that's your opinion, although the unofficial election results in North and NorthEast seem to confirm that statement. Imagine the reaction of the red-shirts if yet another election would have been 'stolen' from them.

Anyway, we try to move forward and with some luck the NRC and CDC get broad input to get reforms on the road to a real democracy. This time for ALL, not just traditional powergroups and other opportunists.

It's standard in politics to keep pushing a lost cause, and your second paragraph indicates it was being done in accordance with the constitution.

Regarding Thaksin as a savior, the same could be said about the Democrats attitude to Suthep.

The low point in popularity came in large part because many redshirts were outraged about the breadth of the amnesty bill that would have granted amnesty to many government officials implicated in the 2010 government assault on protesters. I don't know what gave you the idea the redshirts forgot that. I don't think they would have objected if their drop in support led to a drop in votes for the PTP.

Your arguments against democracy are getting weak. Your faith in the military providing "real democracy" is misplaced. I'm sure the constitution they will impose on Thailand will make that clear to most of the world, but maybe not you.

'lost cause'? Our dear Thaksin's amnesty (and that of his sister) a lost cause? That's your opinion, but one I hope to come true.

The Democrat party's attitude towards Suthep is not the same as Pheu Thai / UDD towards Thaksin. Most Democrats wouldn't mind if Phra Suthep stayed in the temple.

The red-shirts were manipulated by their UDD leadership to accept the Yingluck government had dropped the amnesty bill (which they hadn't), forget some UDD leaders and red-shirts being Pheu Thai MP voted in favour, or in the case of Nattuwut, Dr. weng and the late seh Daengs daughter 'only' abstained, and defending the Isaan darling's government was more important as all should know.

My arguments are not against democracy, only against trying to defend the corrupted democracy Thailand had.

More effort should be put in helping the NRC and CDC. That's were Thailand gets a second chance.

PS your " I don't think they would have objected if their drop in support led to a drop in votes for the PTP." seems to suggest that for some anything would be acceptable as long as it doesn't lead to drop in Pheu Thai votes, even if it's a blanket amnesty bill?

You are drifting into incoherence. I'm not sure, but I think your second paragraph states that the redshirts didn't notice the amnesty bill. If you like I can provide links to many newspaper articles that showed that many redshirts were very unhappy about the amnesty and were threatening to withhold votes for the PTP in the next election. The amnesty was a politically dumb move, but you have yet to show that it was illegal or justified a coup.

Regarding you PS, I have no idea how you read that into my statement. Try re-reading my post. Or some of my other posts, in which I've repeatedly stated that an election in July would have shown a significant drop in votes for PTP. Somehow my preference for an election that would have been a significant blow to the PTP translates to my being a Thaksin/redshirt supporter. Care to explain that one?

Posted

Why would there be sour grapes ? What does Thaksin have to do with anything, He wasn't the one drafting the 2007 constitution.

Just answer the questions, why do you believe they are up to the task now,(after all, if we cannot forget Thaksin's history, it is only fair to consider the military's history as well) and will they ensure they stop being a political factor.

Your speaking for who ??? I do not answer to you against an organized gang thanks. I was speaking to the General about a clan on here that doesn't like him. sort of make believe post to him.

Question answer, simple because of the drastic inroads into a hundred aspects of governing that were NEVER addressed during the Thaksin/Yingluck/PTP regime.

You answer now my Question, what did PTP achieve during 3 years----come on mega achievements.??

Posted

Why would there be sour grapes ? What does Thaksin have to do with anything, He wasn't the one drafting the 2007 constitution.

Just answer the questions, why do you believe they are up to the task now,(after all, if we cannot forget Thaksin's history, it is only fair to consider the military's history as well) and will they ensure they stop being a political factor.

Your speaking for who ??? I do not answer to you against an organized gang thanks.

Organized gang ? I am a poster on here speaking for myself.

Or are you referring to the military and their version of freedom of speech ?

I sure hope this isn't some accusation towards me, as that would be entirely baseless and silly. And would also be considered rude and against forum rules.

Posted

Why would there be sour grapes ? What does Thaksin have to do with anything, He wasn't the one drafting the 2007 constitution.

Just answer the questions, why do you believe they are up to the task now,(after all, if we cannot forget Thaksin's history, it is only fair to consider the military's history as well) and will they ensure they stop being a political factor.

Your speaking for who ??? I do not answer to you against an organized gang thanks.

Organized gang ? I am a poster on here speaking for myself.

Or are you referring to the military and their version of freedom of speech ?

I sure hope this isn't some accusation towards me, as that would be entirely baseless and silly. And would also be considered rude and against forum rules.

I believe you that you are a single TVF poster, but have lost your way amongst several posters that seemingly have the exact same agenda.

Or maybe you have fallen into bad hands. why are you knocking the army efforts, this is why you receive posts with answers like this.

Glaring example --why did you not answer #79 the last sentence ???? you avoided it to answer in this fashion picking on the gang theme -thus swerving round it. I answered your PROBE. be fair.

Posted

Why would there be sour grapes ? What does Thaksin have to do with anything, He wasn't the one drafting the 2007 constitution.

Just answer the questions, why do you believe they are up to the task now,(after all, if we cannot forget Thaksin's history, it is only fair to consider the military's history as well) and will they ensure they stop being a political factor.

Your speaking for who ??? I do not answer to you against an organized gang thanks.

Organized gang ? I am a poster on here speaking for myself.

Or are you referring to the military and their version of freedom of speech ?

I sure hope this isn't some accusation towards me, as that would be entirely baseless and silly. And would also be considered rude and against forum rules.

I believe you that you are a single TVF poster, but have lost your way amongst several posters that seemingly have the exact same agenda.

Or maybe you have fallen into bad hands. why are you knocking the army efforts, this is why you receive posts with answers like this.

I am knocking the army efforts because I do not believe they have any right to be in power. I believe in democracy, not in a military dictatorship. I am knocking them because they have a particularly bad track record.

And yes, I do not believe what they claim, and I certainly do not believe they are just doing it for the good of Thailand and it's people.

Not surprisingly that there are posters on here (and elsewhere mind you) who express similar views, not everyone is easily fooled by the rhetoric and propaganda coming our way..

Edit, since you keep editing your posts and adding questions, I did miss the question regarding the achievements of PT. Not sure why that is relevant, as they actually had a mandate and actually dissolved the house to give the Thai electorate a say in what their achievements were worth to them.

This is of course completely different from the modus operandi of your beloved General, who is judge, jury and executioner and no way for anyone to do anything about it.

  • Like 2
Posted

I believe you that you are a single TVF poster, but have lost your way amongst several posters that seemingly have the exact same agenda.

Or maybe you have fallen into bad hands. why are you knocking the army efforts, this is why you receive posts with answers like this.

I am knocking the army efforts because I do not believe they have any right to be in power. I believe in democracy, not in a military dictatorship. I am knocking them because they have a particularly bad track record.

And yes, I do not believe what they claim, and I certainly do not believe they are just doing it for the good of Thailand and it's people.

Not surprisingly that there are posters on here (and elsewhere mind you) who express similar views, not everyone is easily fooled by the rhetoric and propaganda coming our way..

I get your anti army feeling it comes quite clear, so even if they are working wonders after 9 weeks that's no good in your eyes because of their track record.

#79 you are still avoiding it I want your side of things from your PTP track record over the 3 years. If you do not answer this after I answered my army likes then do not come back on as this will answer my suspicions.

Posted

I did answer the question in the same way as you asked it, by editing the post.

You can be suspicious all you like, at the very least I try to apply certain ethics on all parties, not just apply them to one particular party.

Posted

I did answer the question in the same way as you asked it, by editing the post.

You can be suspicious all you like, at the very least I try to apply certain ethics on all parties, not just apply them to one particular party.

# 79 answer you did NOT what mega achievements did PTP provide during the 3 years ?? answer, I ask this question to this PTP clan of posters and they never can answer, so ???

I said do not come back to me if you cannot answer this simple request. Without being biased for sure--I find it difficult to answer if I was pro PTP.

Posted

Read #82 again please, a clear answer to your question. I understand you probably won't like the answer, but read it and try to understand the reasoning, you would also have a clearer understanding as to why I keep knocking the Junta.

Posted

rubl, how many times do you need to be told that the scheduled elections on February 2nd were not "pushed through" as you keep on suggesting but were in keeping with the constitution with regard to the "old" constitution timing requirements. In case you missed the point, scheduled elections allow the Thai's to change their government, a luxury not afforded them by the present junta.

Though I must admit I am touched by yours and others continued love affair with all things military, particularly your belief they will hand over government completely to civilians in the year/s to come. Section 44, rubl, Section 44 - let's just see if that particular section, in whatever new guise, is retained in the "new" constitution, shall we?

Pushed through as in maintaining that they could not be postponed.

As for 'love affair', those are your wind-up words.

and don't forget "respect my vote even after it has been counted'. Democracy is more than elections.

Pushed through as in maintaining that they could not be postponed.

And quite legitimately too. There is/was (now that the junta have ripped up their own 2007 constitution) no provision to postpone the election in the Constitution. The 2007 Constitution required that elections be held “not less than 45 days but not more than 60 days from the day the House of Representatives has been dissolved.”

Of course the Constitutional Court came up with one of their "interpretations" of the constitution which could be confused with making their own laws up.........

In analyzing Friday’s decision, Pornson Liengboonlertchai, a scholar at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok who specializes in constitutional law, echoed the views of other experts in saying the court appeared to be making law, rather than interpreting it.

“The power to postpone elections does not exist in any part of the Thai Constitution at all,” Mr. Pornson said on Thai television. “The court itself is trying to establish this power.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/25/world/asia/thai-constitutional-court-says-election-can-be-postponed.html?_r=0

and then we get the same old tired "argument", Democracy is more than elections, as if anybody had denied that it was. What democracy is not, is denying people the right to have an election in the first place, as your first love, suthep managed to arrange, aided and abetted by the misnamed "Election Commission" and finally compounded by the junta.

You keep on spouting your little homilies, e.g "respect my vote even after it has been counted" as if they meant anything to you and then in the next breath willingly endorse the coup. Do you actually understand what a contradiction that is?

  • Like 2
Posted

Pushed through as in maintaining that they could not be postponed.

And quite legitimately too. There is/was (now that the junta have ripped up their own 2007 constitution) no provision to postpone the election in the Constitution. The 2007 Constitution required that elections be held “not less than 45 days but not more than 60 days from the day the House of Representatives has been dissolved.”

Of course the Constitutional Court came up with one of their "interpretations" of the constitution which could be confused with making their own laws up.........

In analyzing Friday’s decision, Pornson Liengboonlertchai, a scholar at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok who specializes in constitutional law, echoed the views of other experts in saying the court appeared to be making law, rather than interpreting it.

“The power to postpone elections does not exist in any part of the Thai Constitution at all,” Mr. Pornson said on Thai television. “The court itself is trying to establish this power.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/25/world/asia/thai-constitutional-court-says-election-can-be-postponed.html?_r=0

and then we get the same old tired "argument", Democracy is more than elections, as if anybody had denied that it was. What democracy is not, is denying people the right to have an election in the first place, as your first love, suthep managed to arrange, aided and abetted by the misnamed "Election Commission" and finally compounded by the junta.

You keep on spouting your little homilies, e.g "respect my vote even after it has been counted" as if they meant anything to you and then in the next breath willingly endorse the coup. Do you actually understand what a contradiction that is?

I'm sure you don't like some rulings of various courts, especially those against Yingluck's Administration. Too bad, but that's life. Nothing personal though, they did rule as they did legally with elaborate explanations. Of course, it's like talking to those who do not want to hear what they consider wrong.

As for democracy, well that is indeed not the same as elections. Did you read the report in the Nation on k. Anand ? Probably not, doesn't fit your ideas it would seem.

""I don't think democracy is just about elections. Democracy entails several other things such as democratic values, organisations set up to ensure checks and balances, transparency, a fair judicial system, the right to express opinions."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Coup-should-not-revive-old-woes-30241044.html

Oh by the way and along the road, 'endorse the coup' ? You mean as in "accepting that alternatives failed'? Let's work to ensure the NRC/CDC manage to get Thailand on the right track to make coup a thing of the past. Or as former PM Anand said

"Former prime minister Anand Panyarachun said that coup-makers should ensure that the problems that led to the coup in the first place do not return. "

  • Like 1
Posted

I believe you that you are a single TVF poster, but have lost your way amongst several posters that seemingly have the exact same agenda.

Or maybe you have fallen into bad hands. why are you knocking the army efforts, this is why you receive posts with answers like this.

I am knocking the army efforts because I do not believe they have any right to be in power. I believe in democracy, not in a military dictatorship. I am knocking them because they have a particularly bad track record.

And yes, I do not believe what they claim, and I certainly do not believe they are just doing it for the good of Thailand and it's people.

Not surprisingly that there are posters on here (and elsewhere mind you) who express similar views, not everyone is easily fooled by the rhetoric and propaganda coming our way..

Edit, since you keep editing your posts and adding questions, I did miss the question regarding the achievements of PT. Not sure why that is relevant, as they actually had a mandate and actually dissolved the house to give the Thai electorate a say in what their achievements were worth to them.

This is of course completely different from the modus operandi of your beloved General, who is judge, jury and executioner and no way for anyone to do anything about it.

4th Paragraph, you still have not answered the achievements and you said you have WHERE come on where.--care to look topic NACC #63.

thankyou again for using my edit as an excuse and still it is not answered--if you do not know ask some of the splinter Pro PTP if they can because they never have.

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