retirement visa funds taxable?

[cas67]

My husband and I are looking to semi retire to Thailand. We are purchasing a condo (off plan) which according to most people is not a good idea but too late to change. My question is is the 800 000 baht taxable as it says funds that are put in to thai banks are taxable. We are getting a retirement visa for my husband and myself a followers visa which is an nom imm type o visa. Apparently it doesnt matter of I am over 50 or mot as long as my husband is. They say that it is to do with when we got the finds not how. I am confused. There are alot of bits of info but no proof in the tax booklet that I download.Oh yeah we aee Australian. Thanks

[Captbonio]

Hi.. Im still in UK but have sent money to my Thai bank for the purchase of my house last year. I certianly hope there is no tax for any money sent in as i have not accrued for it. I know this doesnt answer your quesiton, but from my perspective this tax was never mentioned to me and if there is one, I need to know about it so jumping onto your forum to hopefully hear more

 

[cas67]

Sorry to scare you Captbonio, my developer told me there is no tax on the purchase price but there is a pretty hefty tranfer fee. I was talking about funds put into bank accounts wether it be for retirement visa and funds to live off.

[mahjongguy]

- Whatever interest your deposit earns may be subject to Thai income tax. It depends on your total Thai income for the calendar year.

 

- The type of deposit account you chose determines whether or not the bank will withhold 15% of the earned interest on behalf of the tax authority.

 

- Unless you are working in Thailand you are unlikely to exceed the personal exemption. So, you can (usually in February) submit paperwork to the tax authority and they will cheerfully refund any withheld amount. That refund would at the most be about 3600 baht.       (800,000 x 3%) x 15%

Edited August 11, 2014 by mahjongguy

[cas67]

Thanks MAHJONGGUY,
My concerns comes from something I read that stated any funds placed in a Thai bank was taxable. Reason being, if you have earned money in Thailand paid out overseas and then you transfer it back in. I understand where they are coming from but this is not the case but I can not find any information to the contrary in the Thai tax booklet.

[Captbonio]

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Sorry to scare you Captbonio, my developer told me there is no tax on the purchase price but there is a pretty hefty tranfer fee. I was talking about funds put into bank accounts wether it be for retirement visa and funds to live off.

 

phew..guns to manual....

By Transfer fee I presume you mean the cost of transferring the money from Australia to Thailand...

 

I have no idea if it is the same from Oz as from here, but the firs transfer I made was from my UK based HSBC to Bangkok Bk BKK. and if was very expenesive as I had to suffer the UK exchange rate (500 point spread) which is a total rip off..The second and more inteligent way was to transfer from HSBC to Bangkok Bk , London in GBP (minimal fee) and then they  (bkk Bk ) transfer it to my branch in Bkk and I got the local 30 pip spread, which again is minimal...

 

Dont know if that helps you .. but it mean transfers cost is next to nothing

 

 

[cas67]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>
 

Sorry to scare you Captbonio, my developer told me there is no tax on the purchase price but there is a pretty hefty tranfer fee. I was talking about funds put into bank accounts wether it be for retirement visa and funds to live off.

 
phew..guns to manual....
By Transfer fee I presume you mean the cost of transferring the money from Australia to Thailand...
 
I have no idea if it is the same from Oz as from here, but the firs transfer I made was from my UK based HSBC to Bangkok Bk BKK. and if was very expenesive as I had to suffer the UK exchange rate (500 point spread) which is a total rip off..The second and more inteligent way was to transfer from HSBC to Bangkok Bk , London in GBP (minimal fee) and then they  (bkk Bk ) transfer it to my branch in Bkk and I got the local 30 pip spread, which again is minimal...
 
Dont know if that helps you .. but it mean transfers cost is next to nothing
 
 

[cas67]

Captbonio,
Nope I am takimg about the transfer of land tax. I think its around 4 or 5% of purchase price.

[Captbonio]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

Captbonio,
Nope I am takimg about the transfer of land tax. I think its around 4 or 5% of purchase price.

 

ok sorry.. got the wrong thread.. yes.. that is something to consider..

[Gulfsailor]

If you spend more than 180 days in Thailand the revenue department considers you a resident for tax purposes. Thailand has tax treaties with many countries, so your country of origin or where the money is coming from is of importance. In most cases it will mean that you only pay tax in Thailand if the already paid tax abroad is less than what you would have paid in Thailand if you bring it into Thailand in the same year. You then pay the difference in Thailand. So if you bring in money from a country or source with which Thailand has no treaty or levied tax was small or non existent you are liable for income tax in Thailand.

[cas67]

Hi Gulfsailor,
How do you prove you have paud taxes on funds from your own country. I would be getting mobey frim Australia ir France. And yeah we pay taxes on our income at the time you are paid. Still I am not sure how I can prove it to them , I suppose a tax return doc from Aus?

[rgs2001uk]

I am not being funny here, what taxes are you talking about.

First you mention 800k retirement money, that will be taxed at 15% of any interest earned, but can be claimed back.

Then you talk about a condo purchase, now you are talking about pensions?

 

Cant you claim no tax on your pensions?

If you have paid tax at source it wont be taxed here.

[rgs2001uk]

PS, my best advice to you is walk away from your condo off plan and just rent.

[cas67]

Dear rgs2001uk,
Firstly thanks for your negativity that really helps. Also, I nevered mentioned a pension. Because I dont get one.
No need for you to add amy more of your very interesting remarks. They are not helpful

[Captbonio]

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PS, my best advice to you is walk away from your condo off plan and just rent.

 

Hi rgs2001uk

Curious to know why you are so anti condo buying

I bought one off plan and sold it on before completion....Admittedly it was a difficult process , but ultimately profitable

I have been thinking of doing another... What is it that you see as the issue ?

 

 

[Suradit69]

PS, my best advice to you is walk away from your condo off plan and just rent.

 

 

That's the best is it?

 

I've kept money in a Thai bank for donkey years. Used to be the full Baht 800,000 balance, at least for a few months leading up to renewal time for retirement extension but have reduced the balance kept and depend on an embassy income letter with a typical bank balance of only around Baht 200,000. to 300,000 at any time. The interest on the bank deposit is negligible and not taxed.

 

Bought my condo about 15 years ago. The transfer of title fee of whatever it's called was very small and absorbed by the seller. Not sure if it's been raised since then.

 

The owning/renting debate has no correct answer except as it applies to the people involved and the place you buy into. My condo has more than paid for itself after all these years and, hopefully, many years to come. I'm not worried about its resale value, although it is higher now than when I bought it, or it's value to my Thai heir, but whatever value it has when I die, it'll be a whole lot more than would be generated by a rental unit.

 

Buy into a unit not yet built could definitely be dicey, but it may work out well. Depends on the terms and the construction outfit.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Suradit69

[partington]

There is no tax at all payable on money that you have earned outside Thailand and bring in. This is savings, not earnings, and not liable for tax.

 

Strictly, there might be a possible tax  consideration if you earn the money in the same year that you bring it in, but in practice this is never an issue, and not worth worrying about.  

 

I have brought 800,000B  into the country every year for the last three years, on a retirement extension, and never been asked anything about it. People on retirement extensions or OA visas are not considered liable for tax as they are not working.

[rgs2001uk]

Dear rgs2001uk,
Firstly thanks for your negativity that really helps. Also, I nevered mentioned a pension. Because I dont get one.
No need for you to add amy more of your very interesting remarks. They are not helpful

 

Great stuff, you press on, sounds as if you have it all sussed.

[rgs2001uk]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

PS, my best advice to you is walk away from your condo off plan and just rent.

 

Hi rgs2001uk

Curious to know why you are so anti condo buying

I bought one off plan and sold it on before completion....Admittedly it was a difficult process , but ultimately profitable

I have been thinking of doing another... What is it that you see as the issue ?

 

 

 

Not anti condo buying, providing you know what you are getting for your money.

 

Best of luck to you, if you are so pro condo buying, why did you sell before completion?

 

There are plenty of decent second hand condos on the market where you can see exactly what you are getting for your money, eg fixtures and fittings, no karaoke joints next door, etc etc .

 

Due dilligence will provide those who take their time with a nice place, otherwise its buyer beware
 

[rgs2001uk]

 

PS, my best advice to you is walk away from your condo off plan and just rent.

 

 

That's the best is it?

 

I've kept money in a Thai bank for donkey years. Used to be the full Baht 800,000 balance, at least for a few months leading up to renewal time for retirement extension but have reduced the balance kept and depend on an embassy income letter with a typical bank balance of only around Baht 200,000. to 300,000 at any time. The interest on the bank deposit is negligible and not taxed.

 

Bought my condo about 15 years ago. The transfer of title fee of whatever it's called was very small and absorbed by the seller. Not sure if it's been raised since then.

 

The owning/renting debate has no correct answer except as it applies to the people involved and the place you buy into. My condo has more than paid for itself after all these years and, hopefully, many years to come. I'm not worried about its resale value, although it is higher now than when I bought it, or it's value to my Thai heir, but whatever value it has when I die, it'll be a whole lot more than would be generated by a rental unit.

 

Buy into a unit not yet built could definitely be dicey, but it may work out well. Depends on the terms and the construction outfit.

 

 

Yes a perfectly reasonable reply.

 

Love the bit about transfer of title being absorbed by the seller, now the OP asks about the exact same thing.

 

Not going into the rent/buy debate, my reply was aimed at exactly what are you buying, see previous answer, a karaoke joint next door, wasnt so long ago condo buyers in Pattaya were trying to sue for lose of view.

Wonder how that progressed?

 

Yes years ago my mrs bought a condo for 1/5 th of the price a couple of years earlier, those days are long gone.
 

[Captbonio]

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<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

PS, my best advice to you is walk away from your condo off plan and just rent.

 

Hi rgs2001uk

Curious to know why you are so anti condo buying

I bought one off plan and sold it on before completion....Admittedly it was a difficult process , but ultimately profitable

I have been thinking of doing another... What is it that you see as the issue ?

 

 

 

Not anti condo buying, providing you know what you are getting for your money.

 

Best of luck to you, if you are so pro condo buying, why did you sell before completion?

 

There are plenty of decent second hand condos on the market where you can see exactly what you are getting for your money, eg fixtures and fittings, no karaoke joints next door, etc etc .

 

Due dilligence will provide those who take their time with a nice place, otherwise its buyer beware
 

 

 

hi

it was my first property experience and as condos have no land ownership issues, I pressed on as it seemed as legit as I could see.

I knew it was good value and told the agent that i would resell if there was interest once all the allocations had gone...Sure enough there was interest so i took 1 mllion profit on it..thanks very much...

Youre right I could have kept it..but happy to take the money and move onto the next.

One thing is clear , there is a lot of property available, so if someone wants to pay up...then who am i to deny them....?

So, maybe I was just lucky , but I still dont know what there is to be wary of

 

 

[cas67]

Well thanks everyone for their comments and info. I am looking at an apartment with Acardia Beach Resort iwhich is soo 9 thappraya rd pratumnak. Being built by heights holdings. If anyone know anything about this area I would love to hear their thoughts.

[rgs2001uk]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

 

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

PS, my best advice to you is walk away from your condo off plan and just rent.

 

Hi rgs2001uk

Curious to know why you are so anti condo buying

I bought one off plan and sold it on before completion....Admittedly it was a difficult process , but ultimately profitable

I have been thinking of doing another... What is it that you see as the issue ?

 

 

 

Not anti condo buying, providing you know what you are getting for your money.

 

Best of luck to you, if you are so pro condo buying, why did you sell before completion?

 

There are plenty of decent second hand condos on the market where you can see exactly what you are getting for your money, eg fixtures and fittings, no karaoke joints next door, etc etc .

 

Due dilligence will provide those who take their time with a nice place, otherwise its buyer beware
 

 

 

hi

it was my first property experience and as condos have no land ownership issues, I pressed on as it seemed as legit as I could see.

I knew it was good value and told the agent that i would resell if there was interest once all the allocations had gone...Sure enough there was interest so i took 1 mllion profit on it..thanks very much...

Youre right I could have kept it..but happy to take the money and move onto the next.

One thing is clear , there is a lot of property available, so if someone wants to pay up...then who am i to deny them....?

So, maybe I was just lucky , but I still dont know what there is to be wary of

 

 

 

Great stuff, nice to see you have an eye for a bargain.

 

Friend of mine has a property in Pattaya, depending on wich website you go to its worth anywhere from 5- 7.5 million baht.

 

Too be perfetcly frank, the place is a dump, cheap ass fittings, skirting boards coming away from the wall, if its rainy season the toilets and showers dont work, nam mai long (if you can speak Thai).

 

If Thai property is so great, where are you next, lets say ten purchases lined up?

I have better thinks to do with my life than read Prakrad.com (yes I can read Thai).

Cant be assed learning Russian, best of luck on your endeavours.

 

Correct, who are we to deny the dream seekers.

 

How many of these dream seekers have ever spent any time here?

How many can read and speak the language?

How many ask themselves, yes this is where I want to live for the next 20 years?

How many end up with something they will never shift?

New properties being buit every day and advertised every day here.

 

Make sure you know exactly what you are buying and why you are buying, in the long term, renting make work out cheaper.

Neighbours piss you off, move,barking dogs pisss you off move, the early morning call to prayers piss you off, move.

 

[KittenKong]

Rarely seen so much half-right information in one thread. Oh well.

Hubby would probably find it simpler to get any short- or medium-length tourist visa before arriving here and then extend it here (for retirement purposes) rather than to get a retirement visa abroad which generally requires a lot of extra paperwork and hoop-jumping. Maybe he intends to do this anyway; the first post isn't very clear about this. "Visa" and "visa extension" are two totally different things that are often confused.

Tax. For your retirement extension, if you choose to go by the deposit route, you must deposit your 800K in an account that offers immediate access (nearly all term deposits qualify, as do regular savings accounts). Most such accounts will withhold 15% tax and this can normally be reclaimed on the term deposits, but normally not on the savings accounts. There are some rare exceptions.
If you have enough pension or other income (65k per month) then you can avoid the deposit requirement entirely. Combinations of both are also possible, and this presents some advantages notably for the "seasoning" of your deposit. There are many hundreds of threads discussing this in the main visa section of the forum and some of these should be read.

Transfer tax. This is the property transfer tax and has nothing to do with importing the funds. 5% max sounds about right, maybe less, and you can absolutely guarantee that there will be other fees (electricity meter, utility connection fees, sinking fund, common fees) that you may or may not have been told about (loudly). One other thing that you probably haven't been told is that these transfer taxes can be paid by either or both parties and the way this is split is entirely negotiable between the two parties. Odd that the salesmen never say this, isn't it? One other thing that they probably wont have told you is that various people connected with the sale may have earned a total of 8% commission, or more.

More tax. Technically if you are resident in Thailand (ie you live here for more than half a year) then you are liable to declare and pay income tax on overseas income that is repatriated in the year in which it is earned. Savings to buy a condo would not normally fall into this category, so you would normally not have anything to declare or pay.

Technical detail. If you are buying in foreign name you must obtain a certificate from your Thai bank proving that your condo purchase funds were imported from abroad to your own named account here and converted to Baht here. All the banks know about this and you should have no trouble getting one, but forewarned is forearmed.

[topt]

Rarely seen so much half-right information in one thread. Oh well.

...................For your retirement extension, if you choose to go by the deposit route, you must deposit your 800K in an account that offers immediate access (nearly all term deposits qualify, as do regular savings accounts). Most such accounts will withhold 15% tax and this can normally be reclaimed on the term deposits, but normally not on the savings accounts. There are some rare exceptions.
 

KK are you suggesting that savings accounts do not withhold 15% or that you cannot normally reclaim any withheld tax? If the latter than I think that is incorrect?

[KittenKong]

KK are you suggesting that savings accounts do not withhold 15% or that you cannot normally reclaim any withheld tax? If the latter than I think that is incorrect?

I've never been able to reclaim tax deducted from my savings account interest, only the tax on fixed deposit interest. Maybe others are luckier than I.

However I do have a non-fixed savings account that doesn't deduct the tax in the first place (up to a certain amount) which is the rare exception I mentioned. My other banks deduct the tax on my savings accounts with them (which I cant get refunded as mentioned). And no, I dont understand how one bank can do what others cant do either but this is Thailand and I so I just tend to use the bank that does what works out best for me.

YMMV

[Captbonio]

rgg2001uk... Thanks for your feedback. I do agree with a lot you say. I know you are right on this but I guess I am at a stage in life where I still treat it as an adventure and as such will make the odd mistake now and then. i am probably naive on a lot of what goes on and hence my reading of these blogs nad forums to help me gain the knowledge from old hands here. It is an interesting experience to hear what everyone has to say. Clearly some are bitter about their experiences , and some are not. Such is life. Thanks for your input. Much appreciated

[Captbonio]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

Rarely seen so much half-right information in one thread. Oh well.

Hubby would probably find it simpler to get any short- or medium-length tourist visa before arriving here and then extend it here (for retirement purposes) rather than to get a retirement visa abroad which generally requires a lot of extra paperwork and hoop-jumping. Maybe he intends to do this anyway; the first post isn't very clear about this. "Visa" and "visa extension" are two totally different things that are often confused.

Tax. For your retirement extension, if you choose to go by the deposit route, you must deposit your 800K in an account that offers immediate access (nearly all term deposits qualify, as do regular savings accounts). Most such accounts will withhold 15% tax and this can normally be reclaimed on the term deposits, but normally not on the savings accounts. There are some rare exceptions.
If you have enough pension or other income (65k per month) then you can avoid the deposit requirement entirely. Combinations of both are also possible, and this presents some advantages notably for the "seasoning" of your deposit. There are many hundreds of threads discussing this in the main visa section of the forum and some of these should be read.

Transfer tax. This is the property transfer tax and has nothing to do with importing the funds. 5% max sounds about right, maybe less, and you can absolutely guarantee that there will be other fees (electricity meter, utility connection fees, sinking fund, common fees) that you may or may not have been told about (loudly). One other thing that you probably haven't been told is that these transfer taxes can be paid by either or both parties and the way this is split is entirely negotiable between the two parties. Odd that the salesmen never say this, isn't it? One other thing that they probably wont have told you is that various people connected with the sale may have earned a total of 8% commission, or more.

More tax. Technically if you are resident in Thailand (ie you live here for more than half a year) then you are liable to declare and pay income tax on overseas income that is repatriated in the year in which it is earned. Savings to buy a condo would not normally fall into this category, so you would normally not have anything to declare or pay.

Technical detail. If you are buying in foreign name you must obtain a certificate from your Thai bank proving that your condo purchase funds were imported from abroad to your own named account here and converted to Baht here. All the banks know about this and you should have no trouble getting one, but forewarned is forearmed.

 

thanks to you.. very useful info.

One question though if I may?

Can owning a property count as an asset in place of the required 800k ?

 

 

Edited August 12, 2014 by Captbonio

[rgs2001uk]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

Rarely seen so much half-right information in one thread. Oh well.

Hubby would probably find it simpler to get any short- or medium-length tourist visa before arriving here and then extend it here (for retirement purposes) rather than to get a retirement visa abroad which generally requires a lot of extra paperwork and hoop-jumping. Maybe he intends to do this anyway; the first post isn't very clear about this. "Visa" and "visa extension" are two totally different things that are often confused.

Tax. For your retirement extension, if you choose to go by the deposit route, you must deposit your 800K in an account that offers immediate access (nearly all term deposits qualify, as do regular savings accounts). Most such accounts will withhold 15% tax and this can normally be reclaimed on the term deposits, but normally not on the savings accounts. There are some rare exceptions.
If you have enough pension or other income (65k per month) then you can avoid the deposit requirement entirely. Combinations of both are also possible, and this presents some advantages notably for the "seasoning" of your deposit. There are many hundreds of threads discussing this in the main visa section of the forum and some of these should be read.

Transfer tax. This is the property transfer tax and has nothing to do with importing the funds. 5% max sounds about right, maybe less, and you can absolutely guarantee that there will be other fees (electricity meter, utility connection fees, sinking fund, common fees) that you may or may not have been told about (loudly). One other thing that you probably haven't been told is that these transfer taxes can be paid by either or both parties and the way this is split is entirely negotiable between the two parties. Odd that the salesmen never say this, isn't it? One other thing that they probably wont have told you is that various people connected with the sale may have earned a total of 8% commission, or more.

More tax. Technically if you are resident in Thailand (ie you live here for more than half a year) then you are liable to declare and pay income tax on overseas income that is repatriated in the year in which it is earned. Savings to buy a condo would not normally fall into this category, so you would normally not have anything to declare or pay.

Technical detail. If you are buying in foreign name you must obtain a certificate from your Thai bank proving that your condo purchase funds were imported from abroad to your own named account here and converted to Baht here. All the banks know about this and you should have no trouble getting one, but forewarned is forearmed.

 

thanks to you.. very useful info.

One question though if I may?

Can owning a property count as an asset in place of the required 800k ?

 

 

 

Short answer, No.
 

[rgs2001uk]

rgg2001uk... Thanks for your feedback. I do agree with a lot you say. I know you are right on this but I guess I am at a stage in life where I still treat it as an adventure and as such will make the odd mistake now and then. i am probably naive on a lot of what goes on and hence my reading of these blogs nad forums to help me gain the knowledge from old hands here. It is an interesting experience to hear what everyone has to say. Clearly some are bitter about their experiences , and some are not. Such is life. Thanks for your input. Much appreciated

 

Mate, too be honest I am at a stage in my life where its all about capital protection rather than capital growth.

 

Been there done that, too many sleepless nights, cups of coffee and cigarettes, thousands wiped out and not a damned thing I could do about it.

 

Been there done that and no intention of ever revisting it.

 

If you have youth on your side and a career to go back to, by all means go for it.

 

Best of luck.