Would like to stay in Thailand 60 days every 60 days, how?

[JThai]

I'm a US Citizen, age 30, look younger. Visited Thailiand twice last year 6 months apart for only a couple weeks. I live in the Philippines. I worke via the internet (no not a digital nomad, I'm a real W2 salaried working who just happens to be able to work from anywhere).

I'd like to start spending 60 days in Thailand and 60 days back home in the Philippines.

What would be the best way to acomplish this? I'm going to be arriving early Septempber on the 30 day visa exemption and plan to extend to 60 days under the new rules. Then I will go back the Philippines for 60 days and hope to repeat this cycle.

Is that going to be a problem?

I know the other option is to get a tourist visa and I'm happy to do that but I hear the Manila embassy is not very helpful.

Where can I get a 1-year tourist visa in SEA? With a tourist visa they don't care about land visa runs? (might not be an issue, I'm planning to be gone every 60 days.

It's a hassle but I have no trouble showing onward travel or acomodations (I'll really need them) and in cases where I need them for sooner than when I plan to exit I'll just buy refundable tickets to cheap destinations. I'm very organized like that.

Please help.

[Mario2008]

That will be difficult. Best is to get a single tourist visa good for 60 days. Might safe you a lot of trouble, although the embassy is not the most helpful.

Alternatively, fly to Malaysia, get a tourist visa there and come to Thailand.

[trd]

That will be difficult. Best is to get a single tourist visa good for 60 days. Might safe you a lot of trouble, although the embassy is not the most helpful.

Alternatively, fly to Malaysia, get a tourist visa there and come to Thailand.

Why would that be difficult? If it's 60 days between visits each time, it won't be classified as an out/in visa run.

[wayned]

IMHO if you enter on a 30 day visa exempt entry starting 29 August that can be extended for 30 days. That would give you the 60 days that you want. If you then leave and reenter in 60 days and do the same thing I do not see a problem with immigration.. But you might be required to show the airline a ticket exiting Thailand during the first 30 days to board the aircraft.

[ubonjoe]

There have been resent recent reports that the embassy in Manila has gotten friendlier. You should apply for a tourist visa that would give a 60 day entry that you can extend for 30 days.

[asdecas]

Dear OP,

I am delighted to hear that you look younger than your thirty years; no doubt you will be treated to diurnal exclamations of "hansum man" wherever you roam in the Kingdom.

I regret I am unable to offer any better advice on the issue you raise beyond concurring with a poster above that, come a few days' time, a visa-free entry of 30 days (assuming you qualify), duly extended for another 30 days before expiry of the first period, will likely cater to your needs. However, since this thirty-day extension is a newly-minted change in policy to be implemented from 29th August, who can say what obstacles might be put in your path by an IO at the PoI, should you make regular use of the facility?

Your alternative is regular visits to the Thai embassy in Makati for a tourist visa, not to be recommended if you can avoid it, in my opinion.

[jpinx]

Of course you won't be "working" while you're in Thailand on a tourist visa - will you?

You could get the Elite card and come and go as you want.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

Edited August 27, 2014 by jpinx

[JThai]

Of course you won't be "working" while you're in Thailand on a tourist visa - will you?

You could get the Elite card and come and go as you want.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

I'll be using my laptop for 40+ hours a week in connect with my job in the US. Yeah I guess some here feel that is wrong. But I'm not employed in Thailand and not taking any jobs from any one there.

I'm not so sure about the elite card. I think I'd rather start learning Thai on a ED visa but I'm a little concerned they want too much time in class per week but I'd still like to consider it.

[JThai]

Dear OP,

I am delighted to hear that you look younger than your thirty years; no doubt you will be treated to diurnal exclamations of "hansum man" wherever you roam in the Kingdom.

I regret I am unable to offer any better advice on the issue you raise beyond concurring with a poster above that, come a few days' time, a visa-free entry of 30 days (assuming you qualify), duly extended for another 30 days before expiry of the first period, will likely cater to your needs. However, since this thirty-day extension is a newly-minted change in policy to be implemented from 29th August, who can say what obstacles might be put in your path by an IO at the PoI, should you make regular use of the facility?

Your alternative is regular visits to the Thai embassy in Makati for a tourist visa, not to be recommended if you can avoid it, in my opinion.

Thanks, that's what I am thinking too. I will enter and go for the extension. I have acomodations, I have a ticket out within 30 days (that I'll be wasting actually), can bring however much money they need to see.

About the Makati Embassay, I was just able to reach them by phone, they will give you a double entry for about 2000 php but they want confirmed acomodations and airline tickets for both entries. It takes 2 working days though. I don't even live in Manila so I'd actually have to stay a few days down there. Which might be a good excuse to do so.

So I guess for my plan of 60 day on and 60 day off moving forward.

1. This time Sep-Oct: Enter 30 day exempt + 30 day extension (no time for visa this time)

2. Get a double entry tourist visa for: Jan-Feb, May Jun

3. And just keep getting a new double entry in makati?

I guess we will have to compare how much trouble getting the Visa is VS the extension. But from what I read, they really prefer you to have a tousit visa? and with the visa I don't need to keep changing my flights from 30 to 60 days.

Thoughts guys?

P.S. I only mentioned looking younger to see if that might hurt or help me with imigration. Not trying to be a hansum man

Edited August 27, 2014 by JThai

[gk10002000]

Fly in and get the normal 30 day visa exemption. I think the new rules work in your favor because you can now purchase an additional 30 day visa extension without having to make a visa run. As long as you have proper tickets which you seem to say you will have, this should be easy. You should be judged as a plain and simple repeat tourist that comes and goes three times a year.

[slipperylobster]

You can try to get yourself a permanent residence card (I have one)......for the Philippines. I have been trying to glean information on what is considered the proper time out of Thailand, before returning. Sixty days seems more than reasonable. Some of the more informed posters (I am sure you can tell who they are) have consistently said there is no rule that they have heard of stopping people from entering Thailand with a new visa (unless they suspect you are working here). I imagine there is some kind of limit for the number of visas you can get from one consulate.

It seems, with a residency card in the Philippines, a round trip ticket, and your tax forms from online working, that it should be a simple thing to demonstrate you are not seeking employment in Thailand, or long staying. No reason for you not to take 3 vacations here a year on a tourist visa. I think Thailand would welcome you as a satisfied repeat customer.

Let us know how things go for you.

[Mario2008]

Fly in and get the normal 30 day visa exemption. I think the new rules work in your favor because you can now purchase an additional 30 day visa extension without having to make a visa run. As long as you have proper tickets which you seem to say you will have, this should be easy. You should be judged as a plain and simple repeat tourist that comes and goes three times a year.

Flying in to get a visa exempt entry requires a ticket out within 30 days of arrival. This would then need to be changed in order to get the extension, which might also require proof of being an actual tourist, such as hotel booking slips.

In all it will be easier, often cheaper and give more security to have a proper toruist visa if you want to stay for 60 days.

[JThai]

Fly in and get the normal 30 day visa exemption. I think the new rules work in your favor because you can now purchase an additional 30 day visa extension without having to make a visa run. As long as you have proper tickets which you seem to say you will have, this should be easy. You should be judged as a plain and simple repeat tourist that comes and goes three times a year.

Flying in to get a visa exempt entry requires a ticket out within 30 days of arrival. This would then need to be changed in order to get the extension, which might also require proof of being an actual tourist, such as hotel booking slips.

In all it will be easier, often cheaper and give more security to have a proper toruist visa if you want to stay for 60 days.

Yes. I think I will do it properly and get the double entry visa in Makati the NEXT time. It's too late for this trip. I just recently got this bright idea of spending more time there. There is a little added cost and hassle having to go to Makati for a few days (processing time) but that could be good too, much better food in Makati and I like to get out there every now and then. Peace of mind to already have 60 days, not having to change flients, able to extend to 90 days. At least I was able to confirm that Makati will issue the visa.

[HidyHo]

I'll be using my laptop for 40+ hours a week in connect with my job in the US. Yeah I guess some here feel that is wrong. But I'm not employed in Thailand and not taking any jobs from any one there.

I'm not so sure about the elite card. I think I'd rather start learning Thai on a ED visa but I'm a little concerned they want too much time in class per week but I'd still like to consider it.

Not sure if you care or not, but you might be putting your company at risk by changing your work location. This is strictly prohibited in my company. I, too, work for US based company and am not working/based out of Singapore office (where I have work permit and pay local tax in addition to my US tax).

I can, theoretically, can work anywhere as well. However, my company policy will not allow this as I might not meet local legal requirement (i.e. if I were to live/work remote from BKK without Thai work permit and paying local taxes). This can make the company liable as well.

I'm not a Thai tax expert but I think your plan can make you Thailand resident subject to taxation.

Edited August 27, 2014 by HidyHo

[JThai]

I'll be using my laptop for 40+ hours a week in connect with my job in the US. Yeah I guess some here feel that is wrong. But I'm not employed in Thailand and not taking any jobs from any one there.

I'm not so sure about the elite card. I think I'd rather start learning Thai on a ED visa but I'm a little concerned they want too much time in class per week but I'd still like to consider it.

Not sure if you care or not, but you might be putting your company at risk by changing your work location. This is strictly prohibited in my company. I, too, work for US based company and am not working/based out of Singapore office (where I have work permit and pay local tax in addition to my US tax).

I can, theoretically, can work anywhere as well. However, my company policy will not allow this as I might not meet local legal requirement (i.e. if I were to live/work remote from BKK without Thai work permit and paying local taxes). This can make the company liable as well.

I'm not a Thai tax expert but I think your plan can make you Thailand resident subject to taxation.

Very small company not too worried about that. I don't know about Thailand but from what I gather the Philippines doesn't care about my income. The company is not based here, it has no operations at all in the Philippines, I'm paid in dollars to my US checking account. For all intents and purposes I'm a tourist with a laptop. Only giving to the economy, not taking. They really have no claim to the money at all.

I even claim the foreign earned income credit and pay no US federal taxes. That is the thing I'm worried about but I've actually checked with multple accountants and they agree that all that matter is that you are a resident of another country and that is where you performed the work. You can either be a legal resident and have a visa or simply be outside of the US for more than 330 full days. I answered totally honestly on turbo tax and it too agrees that I qualify to exclude all my income up to $97,600 from federal income tax.

I'm sure you must know about this though especially if you are paying foreign taxes on the money you might as well be excluding all of it from US tax.

[jpinx]

Of course you won't be "working" while you're in Thailand on a tourist visa - will you?

You could get the Elite card and come and go as you want.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

I'll be using my laptop for 40+ hours a week in connect with my job in the US. Yeah I guess some here feel that is wrong. But I'm not employed in Thailand and not taking any jobs from any one there.

I'm not so sure about the elite card. I think I'd rather start learning Thai on a ED visa but I'm a little concerned they want too much time in class per week but I'd still like to consider it.

Talk to the sponsors in here -- they'll put you right for the Ed visa.

[JThai]

Of course you won't be "working" while you're in Thailand on a tourist visa - will you?

You could get the Elite card and come and go as you want.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

I'll be using my laptop for 40+ hours a week in connect with my job in the US. Yeah I guess some here feel that is wrong. But I'm not employed in Thailand and not taking any jobs from any one there.

I'm not so sure about the elite card. I think I'd rather start learning Thai on a ED visa but I'm a little concerned they want too much time in class per week but I'd still like to consider it.

Talk to the sponsors in here -- they'll put you right for the Ed visa.

Yes, if I get the crazy idea to actually try to stay even longer term (get more serious with the g/f) I think will go that route. I like having a real reason to learn Thai though, not trying to cheat the system, but since I "work" it might be a bit hard to meet the new requirements.

[NoshowJones]

Fly in and get the normal 30 day visa exemption. I think the new rules work in your favor because you can now purchase an additional 30 day visa extension without having to make a visa run. As long as you have proper tickets which you seem to say you will have, this should be easy. You should be judged as a plain and simple repeat tourist that comes and goes three times a year.

What he should be and what he will be judged on are two different things, some immigration officers do things their way according to their moods. TiT.

[HidyHo]

Very small company not too worried about that. I don't know about Thailand but from what I gather the Philippines doesn't care about my income. The company is not based here, it has no operations at all in the Philippines, I'm paid in dollars to my US checking account. For all intents and purposes I'm a tourist with a laptop. Only giving to the economy, not taking. They really have no claim to the money at all.

I even claim the foreign earned income credit and pay no US federal taxes. That is the thing I'm worried about but I've actually checked with multple accountants and they agree that all that matter is that you are a resident of another country and that is where you performed the work. You can either be a legal resident and have a visa or simply be outside of the US for more than 330 full days. I answered totally honestly on turbo tax and it too agrees that I qualify to exclude all my income up to $97,600 from federal income tax.

I'm sure you must know about this though especially if you are paying foreign taxes on the money you might as well be excluding all of it from US tax.

Your example is how you and I meet the US taxation requirement but does not address potential local/legal tax requirements. I can understand the "giving to local economy" logic but that may not meet the legal local requirement.

(Un)fortunately, I am taxed both in USA and here ... I think USA is only "developed" country to have global taxation which means the guy from UK who's paid same amount as me gets to take more money home than me

Anyway, I'm not a preacher ... my posts are just food for thought.

[JThai]

Very small company not too worried about that. I don't know about Thailand but from what I gather the Philippines doesn't care about my income. The company is not based here, it has no operations at all in the Philippines, I'm paid in dollars to my US checking account. For all intents and purposes I'm a tourist with a laptop. Only giving to the economy, not taking. They really have no claim to the money at all.

I even claim the foreign earned income credit and pay no US federal taxes. That is the thing I'm worried about but I've actually checked with multple accountants and they agree that all that matter is that you are a resident of another country and that is where you performed the work. You can either be a legal resident and have a visa or simply be outside of the US for more than 330 full days. I answered totally honestly on turbo tax and it too agrees that I qualify to exclude all my income up to $97,600 from federal income tax.

I'm sure you must know about this though especially if you are paying foreign taxes on the money you might as well be excluding all of it from US tax.

Your example is how you and I meet the US taxation requirement but does not address potential local/legal tax requirements. I can understand the "giving to local economy" logic but that may not meet the legal local requirement.

(Un)fortunately, I am taxed both in USA and here ... I think USA is only "developed" country to have global taxation which means the guy from UK who's paid same amount as me gets to take more money home than me

Anyway, I'm not a preacher ... my posts are just food for thought.

I think I'll worry about it more if Thailand actually treated me/allowed me to be a resident, until then I will be forever a tourist. Maybe I'll get sick of it before I reach that point, I just need a break from the Philippines right now haha.

[dagobert]

Easy solution do what i do,

I have contracted land in Bali 25 years, built a nice size kit home.

We,ll call this home base,

I get a simple tourist visa for Thailand 60 days, in Denpasar.

First month go north ChiangMai rent a bike and condo.

Second month Bangkok same same but no bike public transport is cheap and safer.

Go to Indo consulat get a tourist visa, index 211 60 days + 1extention 30 days.

Then back to Bali "home" walk in its ready i know what to expect.

Hang around a few months then do it all again with only carry on 7kg + laptop.

Over time Thai Immo and Bali Immo know my travel movements so they have no

problems at all, in the past 8 months i have 3 visa exempt entrys in my PP and

I will be back in LOS in November.

Thai Immo has no problem with this sort of travel itinary as long as it is all legal.

Bali Immo just laugh because its all legal "use the law to your benafit".

[duanebigsby]

Of course you won't be "working" while you're in Thailand on a tourist visa - will you?

You could get the Elite card and come and go as you want.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

I'll be using my laptop for 40+ hours a week in connect with my job in the US. Yeah I guess some here feel that is wrong. But I'm not employed in Thailand and not taking any jobs from any one there.

I'm not so sure about the elite card. I think I'd rather start learning Thai on a ED visa but I'm a little concerned they want too much time in class per week but I'd still like to consider it.

Immigration in Chiang Mai clarified that working using Internet to connect with outside clients generating money outside Thailand was allowed on a tourist visa, just no work permit and long term stay is permissible. Just keep getting tourist visas and stay your 6 months a year here.

[kaydee412]

Very small company not too worried about that. I don't know about Thailand but from what I gather the Philippines doesn't care about my income. The company is not based here, it has no operations at all in the Philippines, I'm paid in dollars to my US checking account. For all intents and purposes I'm a tourist with a laptop. Only giving to the economy, not taking. They really have no claim to the money at all.

I even claim the foreign earned income credit and pay no US federal taxes. That is the thing I'm worried about but I've actually checked with multple accountants and they agree that all that matter is that you are a resident of another country and that is where you performed the work. You can either be a legal resident and have a visa or simply be outside of the US for more than 330 full days. I answered totally honestly on turbo tax and it too agrees that I qualify to exclude all my income up to $97,600 from federal income tax.

I'm sure you must know about this though especially if you are paying foreign taxes on the money you might as well be excluding all of it from US tax.

If you take a look at http://www.ntrc.gov.ph/files/Chapter-I-Income-Taxes.pdf you'll see that it defines resident alien as "an individual who is not a citizen of the Philippines but whose residence is within the Philippines", i.e. you. Furthermore, it goes on to define the tax liability for resident aliens on personal income as "taxed similarly as a resident citizen on incomes received from sources within the Philippines". Typically you're considered a resident for tax purposes when your stay is 180 days or more per year.

Do you think it makes sense for the US government to give you a tax break for no apparent reason? The reason they're allowing you a *foreign* earned income credit is because they're assuming that you follow the rules and pay foreign taxes on that income. You should also verify whether you working remotely for a US company and getting paid in the US constitutes meets the definition of "foreign earned income". I'd be very interested in hearing the IRS' verdict on that one so please do share your findings.

And don't use a regular accountant for US expat tax issues. Get somebody that specializes in it -- like Greenback. Turbo Tax doesn't count, it's designed for the masses, not edge cases like yours.

Edited August 27, 2014 by kaydee412

[Tony125]

Of course you won't be "working" while you're in Thailand on a tourist visa - will you?

You could get the Elite card and come and go as you want.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

I'll be using my laptop for 40+ hours a week in connect with my job in the US. Yeah I guess some here feel that is wrong. But I'm not employed in Thailand and not taking any jobs from any one there.

I'm not so sure about the elite card. I think I'd rather start learning Thai on a ED visa but I'm a little concerned they want too much time in class per week but I'd still like to consider it.

Don't bother with the elite card the TV poster must not be reading posts lately , you can work online now its not illegal as long as your not seeling goods shipped from Thailand.

[jpinx]

Don't bother with the elite card the TV poster must not be reading posts lately , you can work online now its not illegal as long as your not seeling goods shipped from Thailand.

Of course you won't be "working" while you're in Thailand on a tourist visa - will you?

You could get the Elite card and come and go as you want.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/726441-thailand-elite-easy-access-500k-thb-card/

I'll be using my laptop for 40+ hours a week in connect with my job in the US. Yeah I guess some here feel that is wrong. But I'm not employed in Thailand and not taking any jobs from any one there.

I'm not so sure about the elite card. I think I'd rather start learning Thai on a ED visa but I'm a little concerned they want too much time in class per week but I'd still like to consider it.

=================>

I believe that was a clarification by the Chiang Mai immigration office, and may or may not apply elsewhere. Having said that the trend has always been for people to keep quiet and don't do anything that involves goods or money going in or out of Thailand. I've not seen any reports of anyone being prosecuted or persecuted in any way for working a server in another country from a connection within Thailand.

The OP would be well advised to pay attention to the "keep quiet" bit -- this is a very public forum,,,,,,

[biggles45]

I am living your intended lifestyle, I got a Special Residence Retirement Visa for the Philippines and that is my primary home. The filipina GF and I spend a couple of months in Thailand on holiday several times a year. We keep a room here for that purpose, I was in Pattaya for over ten years before we moved in together. We are genuine tourists and have no trouble getting a TV from the embassy in Manila. Unfortunately for you, you need to be 35+ to get the visa

The embassy must be pretty relaxed, on our last visit there were 25-30 country guys there with an agent getting visas. When the GF asked where they were goi g they said, off to work in Thailand !!

[balo]

Just get an Elite card for 500k . Its valid for 5 years and no more worries, and yes you can work as a digital nomad from Thailand as long as you do not live here.

Edited August 28, 2014 by balo