British activist goes on trial in Thailand for defamation

[Asiantravel]

It's not his business to be pointing fingers in Thailand. He is holding Thailand to an EU standard which in an idealistic utopian world is fine, but the real world is simplistic. And it's a bit foolhardy during a coup.

Okay then Thailand should come out publicly and declare to how they stand on this

“ Thailand - The Hub for Protecting The Interests of the Elite “ at all costs

[mojorison]

A trial or a foregone conclusion ?

This might be part of his strategy. It would have been easy to avoid arrest, so I'm guessing this helps him drive the mission further afield. This type of litigation will only hurt the claimant (criminal so I guess it's "the prosecution"...) in fact it seems fairly foolish for them to continue, and escalate an issue with which they are probably heavily in the wrong. I'll go out on a limb and say he is playing them.

[gbswales]

We wish Andy Hall lots of success. We admire his actions and we are sure Thai Courts will do their best to serve Justice.

Andy Hall deserves a thank you from Humanity

I wish I had your confidence in the legal system there - not finding for the company will open up investigation of working practices across the whole of Thailand and that will hit the Thai economy.

It should have been just as easy for government inspectors to find out all this information - but did they? - will they?

[tullynagardy]

Remember just a couple of months ago Thailand was the only country to vote against the protocol on slave labour

Really!? I missed that, wow that is quite a bold statement and also outrageous. Do you have a source?

Sure - http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/06/13/thailand-sparks-outrage-by-opposing-ilo-vote-to-tackle-forced-labor

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/11/uk-labour-ilo-idUKKBN0EM1XY20140611

nothing bold or outrageous in what I said, simply the truth.

Edited September 2, 2014 by tullynagardy

[gbswales]

It's not his business to be pointing fingers in Thailand. He is holding Thailand to an EU standard which in an idealistic utopian world is fine, but the real world is simplistic. And it's a bit foolhardy during a coup.

The report he wrote and the charges against him were made long before the coup.

Also these campaigners are holding the companies purchasing goods equally culpable (such as DOLE fruits) We demand that they say "you want to sell to us then you must conform to European standards of production) I wish we did much more of this in many countries. The only thing that needs to suffer are the excess profits of large corporations. In most cases this should not affect consumer prices but simply reduce profit margins for undesirable companies

[VINCENT2012]

Defamation is a criminal offence in Thailand

everybody knows that companies in thailand practice the OT wich means doing hours extra that a person can not refuse to make.

secound the salary is always far under the rest of the world

third they normally have only a day off many times none.

thourth they usually never get holydays or paid holydays.

fifth even wearing a mask a lot are in contact with quimical staff and one day they will get sick.

to finished we all know that here some labour conditions are one of the worst in the world , they dont need to process a person for saying that.

shame on people who practice those medieval labour conditions, and the society to realize whats happening need people to show and name them through documentary or whatever.

when somebody is wrong the truth is always hard to recognize so here in thailand they invented the naming and shaming.......but he will win and i hope the buyer from abroad will defenitly stop to make business with this company too.

[Thai at Heart]

It's not his business to be pointing fingers in Thailand. He is holding Thailand to an EU standard which in an idealistic utopian world is fine, but the real world is simplistic. And it's a bit foolhardy during a coup.

Nonsense. EU companies are buying the products and the accusation is that the company was not even reaching the Thai law.

He is holding them to the standard of Thai law not European.

[Emster23]

Just watched BBC report on the trial. About 4 minutes long, and commenced at 9 minutes after the hour, which indicates not a fluff story, but serious in BBC editors eyes. Short interview with owner of fruit company "Maybe I should sell my company...." yeah, right... Jonathan Head was not too off, contrary to his non-fan club usual rating. He did need to mention that can be guilty even if publish the truth under Thai law.

[boomerangutang]

Thai and Chinese-Thai bosses taking advantage of impoverished desperate immigrants?!? Who wudda thot?

[kalbo123]

Any news about this court case?

[chotthee]

Just watched BBC report on the trial. About 4 minutes long, and commenced at 9 minutes after the hour, which indicates not a fluff story, but serious in BBC editors eyes. Short interview with owner of fruit company "Maybe I should sell my company...." yeah, right... Jonathan Head was not too off, contrary to his non-fan club usual rating. He did need to mention that can be guilty even if publish the truth under Thai law.

Not all truth can be published in Thailand.

Only the right truth.

[SOTIRIOS]

........'human rights leader'.......

[dotpoom]

My wife was buying a "top" at the line of shops outside Tesco Lotus last night. She asked my opinion and I said it suited here and she should buy it....which she did. The top cost 50 Baht. Were we supporting slave labor? I suppose yes and it does bother me when I buy stuff like this. On the other hand, I watched a program from Bangladesh and the workers claimed if people stopped buying their cheap cloths (even with slave labor) they would have no income at all. Difficulty to know what to do really?

[DNPBC0]

It's not his business to be pointing fingers in Thailand. He is holding Thailand to an EU standard which in an idealistic utopian world is fine, but the real world is simplistic. And it's a bit foolhardy during a coup.

Actually, the standard is very clearly provided in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Human and Political Rights. As a member of the UN and a ratified signatory to the Covernant, Thailand has international obligations. If it is unable to comply with these, especially in the light the recent coup, then it is perfectly free to leave the UN - and the same goes for all the many other UN members and signatories who are in breach of their international agreements. The suggestion that the UN standards apply only to an idealistic utopian world may well be correct, but unless we are all prepared to accept universal hypocrisy (currently wearing the euphemistic disguise of 'realism'), the only appropriate responses are either to promote amendments to the Declaration and any of the subsequent covenants or to bite the bullet and cancel membership of the UN.

Now, of course, you might argue that there is no universal morality against hypocrisy and deceit - anything goes because of different cultural values and beliefs. So, why in Thailand is there the objection to any particular breach of promises and clearly stated commitments? In Thailand the answer seems to be clearly stated in the eight-fold path of Buddhism. If the junta chooses to ignore the dharma, then it must explain its reasons for this. If Buddhism is not the basis or Thai morality what is? In Thailand, what exactly is the moral justification for breaking formally agreed commitments?

[khunken]

Remember just a couple of months ago Thailand was the only country to vote against the protocol on slave labour

Really!? I missed that, wow that is quite a bold statement and also outrageous. Do you have a source?

Sure - http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/06/13/thailand-sparks-outrage-by-opposing-ilo-vote-to-tackle-forced-labor

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/11/uk-labour-ilo-idUKKBN0EM1XY20140611

nothing bold or outrageous in what I said, simply the truth.

Actually it's not the truth but a half-truth that is not just misleading but deceitful.

They reversed their position the next day.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Thailand-reverses-earlier-decision-backs-ILO-proto-30236260.html

[Gringogazzer]

Verdict: Suicide...

[retarius]

This trial is going to help boost the image of Thailand abroad, or turn it into a pariah state...depending on the outcome.

[NongKhaiKid]

A trial or a foregone conclusion ?

This might be part of his strategy. It would have been easy to avoid arrest, so I'm guessing this helps him drive the mission further afield. This type of litigation will only hurt the claimant (criminal so I guess it's "the prosecution"...) in fact it seems fairly foolish for them to continue, and escalate an issue with which they are probably heavily in the wrong. I'll go out on a limb and say he is playing them.

Quite a thought and quite a legal strategy and i'm not saying you are wrong.

Since we all know the sometimes unfathomable way in which Thai courts operate i personally would not be playing chicken with a defamation charge in a Thai court on a complaint from the head of a Thai company owned by a prominent family. Not even with Perry Mason leading Rumpole in my defence.

[monk213]

Remember just a couple of months ago Thailand was the only country to vote against the protocol on slave labour

Really!? I missed that, wow that is quite a bold statement and also outrageous. Do you have a source?

Sure - http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/06/13/thailand-sparks-outrage-by-opposing-ilo-vote-to-tackle-forced-labor

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/11/uk-labour-ilo-idUKKBN0EM1XY20140611

nothing bold or outrageous in what I said, simply the truth.

No what I was implying is that for Thailand to vote against such a thing is a very bold and outrageous statement in itself

[Prbkk]

Thailand has more to worry about now with the release of the HRW report on asylum seeker children in detention. Widely reported and scathingly so on CNN and BBC, but ignored by the Thai media so far. The timing is unlikely to be coincidental.

[mojorison]

Remember just a couple of months ago Thailand was the only country to vote against the protocol on slave labour

Really!? I missed that, wow that is quite a bold statement and also outrageous. Do you have a source?

Sure - http://www.undercurrentnews.com/2014/06/13/thailand-sparks-outrage-by-opposing-ilo-vote-to-tackle-forced-labor

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/11/uk-labour-ilo-idUKKBN0EM1XY20140611

nothing bold or outrageous in what I said, simply the truth.

Actually it's not the truth but a half-truth that is not just misleading but deceitful.

They reversed their position the next day.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Thailand-reverses-earlier-decision-backs-ILO-proto-30236260.html

It is not a half truth. They did exactly what tullnagardy said, as I read it at the time. Sure they reversed it after the fact when they realised either honestly what it meant, or when they sensed the fallout of abstaining. (I don't think they fully understood what it was about TBH)

[max72]

We wish Andy Hall lots of success. We admire his actions and we are sure Thai Courts will do their best to serve Justice.

Andy Hall deserves a thank you from Humanity

Justice in Thailand ? Like let walk free pluriassassins of women and children and put in jail their relatives seeking for justice ?

[max72]

Thailand has gone back from the Middle Age to the Stonage. It's probably now the most unhappy ,repressive and corrupt country in the planet.

[Jeremy50]

Its on the BBC radio news this morning.

Owner claims to have lost too much "face" over the allegation.

Like a spoilt child stomping his feet.

[Hermes100]

who is going to sit by and do nothing whilst this gentleman actually tried to help people from being exploited?

**** Comments in all caps have been removed, there is no need to shout ****

To the gentleman on trial WELL DONE SIR, do not lose hope or give, your efforts will not be in vain. other will now put extra efforts into exposing these pathetic cowards.They cannot silence you or the many or support you or the good work you and many do.

Thai exploiting, corrupt,lame food industry- give it up, your already losing, don't lose more face by losing more.Treat people like you know they should be treated a fair wage, for a days work, provide good work conditions, good social practices and nobody will have need to expose you.

Edited September 2, 2014 by metisdead

[Englishabc]

One brave person facing the might of vested commercial interests and who knows, tacit tolerance from government sources. The poor affected migrant workers deserve full protection, wherever they come from.

[humqdpf]

It's not his business to be pointing fingers in Thailand. He is holding Thailand to an EU standard which in an idealistic utopian world is fine, but the real world is simplistic. And it's a bit foolhardy during a coup.

Even if we accept your assertion that holding Thailand to an EU standard (re free speech? re child labor? re anything?) is too idealistic/utopian, there is also the question as to whether the food company is scoring an own goal by having him charged with defamation and also suing him.

Remember the "McDonalds Two," aka "McLibel" which concerned the two penniless activists who McDonalds foolishly decided to drag through the courts over a leaflet. The two defended themselves and the whole debacle cost the company millions in legal costs as well as damaged their market image in the UK.

Just because people in Thailand have to accept the inequalities of the socio-legal system where the wealthy get away with crime does not mean that they like it. They also do not like being exploited and are against child exploitation. It is one thing if a child has to work in a low-level family business because of a bad economy - it is entirely another when a large food company allows for gross exploitation of children in its supply chain.

Remember, that much of what these food companies produce is exported to the EU. The EU has rules against ignoring certain practices in the supply chain. Anyway, public opinion will see to it that these food-stuffs will have less success in the EU.

Such companies, if they want to be multi-national and export to the EU and the USA, have to grow up and learn how to play the big-boys' game by the rules. Multinationals with far more complex supply chains than Thai food companies employ auditors who visit factories unannounced to check the conditions of the workers. Where inputs are made in the village, teams are sent out by large companies to ensure that child labor is not being used etc.

[Thaimaishoe]

How is it that the company, or more generally the acuser, is not brought up on charges of defamation. They are accusing this guy of being a criminal, when infact that, at this point, is not even true. I realize that in the land of make believe here, truth is not a defence, which is ultimately what leads to this rediculous situation, but the accuser doesn't even have that on their side!

I further realize this is a logical circle jerk, but I'm not the one that wrote the idiotic law.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Thaimaishoe

[Hermes100]

We all know that the Thais are always right and everyone else is wrong. So what if the rest of the world criticises Thailand, they don't understand the Thai way and Thailand will be fine without them.

wrong Sir, there is a line they cannot step across and when they do they get bitch slapped.

The most famous and hidden is when the British/Americans bombed the area around the palace just after WW2 and sent a message. " , you betrayed us, do it again and those bombs we just dropped will level that building and many things you hold dear...'

Of course no UK/USA diplomat will put it this way.One was quoted as saying " we simply wanted to remind them we still retain a degree of power and agreements should be kept"

And, since them they have semi behaved.

Behind the scene the west can do far,far more than what the locals would have you believe. They simply cannot risk exposure on some things or world wide boycott.

Injustice/exploitation happens not because evil corrupt entity's like the Thai food industry use mafia like tactic to scare off people into complaining ( I went to one meeting in similar incident and the meeting hall was full of burly men with sour faces looking angry at any western male and going up to them asking them their name or if they were the gentleman making the complaint. It was so obvious what they were trying to do.It failed.)

Thai food industry is able to operate under like mafia conditions because not enough people complain about it, stand up and against it- if they did, thing would change and the poor would get the respect and treatment they deserve.

Right now, they are exploited.

[Malthus101]

Let's hope they throw away the key on this interfering Western do-gooder.