France halts Russia warship delivery

[webfact]

Ukraine crisis: France halts warship delivery to Russia

PARIS (BBC) -- France has said conditions are "not right" for delivery of the first of two Mistral navy assault ships to Russia.

President Francois Hollande's office blamed Moscow's recent actions in Ukraine.

France had until now resisted pressure to halt the delivery, saying it had to respect an existing contract.

Russia's Deputy Defence Minister Yury Borisov said the French decision would not hold back Moscow's plans to reform its armed forces.

"Although of course it is unpleasant and adds to certain tensions in relations with our French partners, the cancelling of this contract will not be a tragedy for our modernisation," he said, quoted by Itar-Tass news agency.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin tweeted his thanks to the French leadership for its "responsible decision", which he said was "important for restoring peace in Europe".

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29052599


-- BBC 2014-09-04

[GentlemanJim]

Ouch! I wonder who will pay the ship builders for that then!

[mikehock]

Ukraine crisis: France halts warship delivery to Russia

PARIS (BBC) -- France has said conditions are "not right" for delivery of the first of two Mistral navy assault ships to Russia.

President Francois Hollande's office blamed Moscow's recent actions in Ukraine.

France had until now resisted pressure to halt the delivery, saying it had to respect an existing contract.

Russia's Deputy Defence Minister Yury Borisov said the French decision would not hold back Moscow's plans to reform its armed forces.

"Although of course it is unpleasant and adds to certain tensions in relations with our French partners, the cancelling of this contract will not be a tragedy for our modernisation," he said, quoted by Itar-Tass news agency.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin tweeted his thanks to the French leadership for its "responsible decision", which he said was "important for restoring peace in Europe".

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29052599

-- BBC 2014-09-04

In diplomatic speak what the russian deputy defence minister is saying is that this WILL hold back our modernisation and plans to reform the armed forces...

[h90]

Ouch! I wonder who will pay the ship builders for that then!

I think Russia paid already, now they have to refund....

[BATHIK]

Russians already got the technology and know how, they just need to find another builder and they won't be needing French business anymore. It's an opportunity for them to upgrade their own ship building capacity, not sure if they will be able to take it, though, but if they do it will serve them very well in the long term.

No wonder French held on to this contract for as long as possible, and even know they do not rule delivering that ship if political situation improves, ie if there's a ceasefire.

In diplomatic speak what the russian deputy defence minister is saying is that this WILL hold back our modernisation and plans to reform the armed forces...

[Gonki]

I read an interview with a Russian military analyst a couple of months ago. He was saying that Russian military brass would prefer those ships not to be delivered and spend the money elsewhere. Buying them was a political decision, they are not really needed.

[GentlemanJim]

Ouch! I wonder who will pay the ship builders for that then!

I think Russia paid already, now they have to refund....

Maybe, I am not sure, but that would make it the first military contract in the world where they pay up front. I guess hey may have made part payment, but not full.

[Mosha]

It was only the other day that the French were insisting , despite US & UK pressure, that these ships would be delivered. So what has changed?

[Mosha]

Ouch! I wonder who will pay the ship builders for that then!

I think Russia paid already, now they have to refund....

Maybe, I am not sure, but that would make it the first military contract in the world where they pay up front. I guess hey may have made part payment, but not full.

I read a quote that said. "Do you expect us to give (amount) back?"

[lovetotravel]

Good thing all the Russians want is peace.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/french_arms_sales_russia

French reports of the port visit make clear that authorities in Paris were all too aware of the sensitivities of their commercial project. It was, for example, deemed "provocative" when a senior Russian admiral approvingly declared that if such ships had been in the fleet in 2008, Russian forces would have overrun Georgia "within 40 minutes", rather than in 26 hours. After that sally went down badly, the Figaro reported, the Russians were careful to talk about using such ships for peacekeeping operations, and other kindly activities.

[bino]

Russians already got the technology and know how

Then why didn't they build their own ships in the first place?

In diplomatic speak what the russian deputy defence minister is saying is that this WILL hold back our modernisation and plans to reform the armed forces...

Definitely a setback for them. If they start again as BATHIK suggests, it takes months if not years to build a warship.

[DekDaeng]

I say congratulations and thank you to France.

[BATHIK]

Russians already got the technology and know how

Then why didn't they build their own ships in the first place?

In diplomatic speak what the russian deputy defence minister is saying is that this WILL hold back our modernisation and plans to reform the armed forces...

Definitely a setback for them. If they start again as BATHIK suggests, it takes months if not years to build a warship.

They got the technology from France, they didn't have it before. Technology transfer was part of a deal and that's the kind of thing you can't take back.

It will definitely take years for them to build the ships on their own but they will be better off for it in the end. It's not like they have a pressing need to invade some coastal country at the moment.

French built these ships to pacify Africans, Russians could have used them in Georgia and shortened their victory by a whopping 25 hours. They could have been useful in Crimea but that is already taken. Donbass shares the border, no need to invade from sea.

There's no rash now, they can afford to wait a few years. Question is - can they actually build the ships or not? It should certainly be a challenge for their Soviet era naval industry.

[loongdavid]

What a great deal it would be for the Royal Australian Navy as they're looking for a new helicopter carrier. Here's your opportunity mate, and at a price that has to be negotiable.

[Matej]

I hope France terminates this contract completely.

If someone thinks that you can do business with someone who threatens and lie you ... sobering going to be very painful.

We, the Westerners, should finally realize that Russia(Putin's regime) is an enemy; autocratic, oligarchic and expansionist state ruled by former KGB agent.

[MJP]

Ouch! I wonder who will pay the ship builders for that then!

I think Russia paid already, now they have to refund....

Couple of destroyers going on Ebay. Will it be low start, no reserve or Buy Now or Best Offer?

[loongdavid]

I hope France terminates this contract completely.

If someone thinks that you can do business with someone who threatens and lie you ... sobering going to be very painful.

We, the Westerners, should finally realize that Russia(Putin's regime) is an enemy; autocratic, oligarchic and expansionist state ruled by former KGB agent.

I agree entirely Matej.

[Matej]

Ouch! I wonder who will pay the ship builders for that then!

I think Russia paid already, now they have to refund....

Couple of destroyers going on Ebay. Will it be low start, no reserve or Buy Now or Best Offer?

Vessels should buy NATO ...

Edited September 4, 2014 by Matej

[Loptr]

I read an interview with a Russian military analyst a couple of months ago. He was saying that Russian military brass would prefer those ships not to be delivered and spend the money elsewhere. Buying them was a political decision, they are not really needed.

My read on the topic is the same as yours... After all, why have the French build these ships when SEA is the hub of ship manufacturing these days... Now France has to refund the $$$ to Russia... Where are they going to get it from? My guess is a closed-doors deal was done with France to keep them liquid if they reneged on the deal... France's economy is in the toilet, along with the balance of the EU and it's only going to get worse once winter comes...

[Loptr]

I hear that France held back on delivery because ISIS made a higher offer than Russia on the ships...

[Matej]

I read an interview with a Russian military analyst a couple of months ago. He was saying that Russian military brass would prefer those ships not to be delivered and spend the money elsewhere. Buying them was a political decision, they are not really needed.

My read on the topic is the same as yours... After all, why have the French build these ships when SEA is the hub of ship manufacturing these days... Now France has to refund the $$$ to Russia... Where are they going to get it from? My guess is a closed-doors deal was done with France to keep them liquid if they reneged on the deal... France's economy is in the toilet, along with the balance of the EU and it's only going to get worse once winter comes...

France only have to pay back deposit, 400 millions euros, and it can terminate the contract.

France/EU's economy is in the toilet? You meant Russian economy, no?

[BATHIK]

What a great deal it would be for the Royal Australian Navy as they're looking for a new helicopter carrier. Here's your opportunity mate, and at a price that has to be negotiable.

Who is Australia going to amphibiously assault now? Should we be worried here in Thailand? Are they about to send us some democracy?

According to wiki the first ship cost nearly a billion dollars, Russians made only the advance payment.

Second ship was supposed to be build in France but assembled in Russia (don't know how it works with ships). Two more ships were planned to be built in Russia from scratch, starting from 2015.

This means Russians are not missing on anything important, only the experience of reassembling the second ship themselves, and they would have to postpone deployment by a couple of years.

Personally, I think French are only posturing for the NATO summit now, once Ukraine starts peace negotiations France will continue with the sale. They also have a second ship to build, it's a huge business they really don't want to lose. They have no other confirmed export deals yet, only interest from Poland, South Africa, Australia, India, Malaysia and what not. Maybe they can find a buyer quickly, maybe not.

Australians are already building two of the same kind of ships and, being the biggest in their navy, I guess it would be hard for them to justify buying one more outright.

[lovetotravel]

If nothing else, it's a huge loss of face for Putin. Being denied advanced military hardware just days before the summit on Ukraine. Very embarrassing. Another country refusing to do business with Russia.

[loongdavid]

What a great deal it would be for the Royal Australian Navy as they're looking for a new helicopter carrier. Here's your opportunity mate, and at a price that has to be negotiable.

Who is Australia going to amphibiously assault now? Should we be worried here in Thailand? Are they about to send us some democracy?

Who indeed? With Australia's close military links to the USA and the A(NZ)US treaty in the background where the USA goes Australia is sure to follow. To date the RAN's amphibious capabilities have only ever been fully utilised for humanitarian relief work.

[Matej]

to loongdavid:

Is France a NATO Member? I didn't think it was, I could be wrong. I seem to think that many years ago France elected not to join as it did not want anyone else controlling it's nuclear capability.

France is a co-founder of NATO; one of twelve. France withdrew from NATO in 1966 because Charles de Gaulle protested the USA's strong role in NATO and, according to him, too close relationship between USA and Great Britain, key members. Plus there was riots in French Algeria, he wanted to involved NATO in these riots, what Eisenhower and Macmillan(GB's PM) refused. France get back in 2009, under Sarkozi. This had nothing to do with nuclear capability ...

[Gillyflower]

One ship was to be delivered in the next few months. I have seen it on TV, a beauty. The contract has not been cancelled, it has been suspended for the moment. For the shipyards it meant 6-7 years work for at least 300 employees and as many where the work is leased out. They had a pretty large order - not just a couple of ships.

Also France did not "elect' to not join NATO. They 'elected' to get out of NATO. It was most annoying, I used to eat in the Nato restaurant and all of a sudden, we couldn't go there any more. They had the best menu of all the international organisations.

[stoli]

Ouch! I wonder who will pay the ship builders for that then!

I would think that the French resisted making this move until they were paid by the Russians. Now that they have the money, they can halt the delivery. I am just amazed that Russia can not build their own ships, and that the French can.

[Scott]

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[BATHIK]

I would think that the French resisted making this move until they were paid by the Russians. Now that they have the money, they can halt the delivery. I am just amazed that Russia can not build their own ships, and that the French can.

They will have to return advance payment and probably pay a fine, which should be specified in the contract.

Russians needed the design to start building their own, in their estimates it would have taken them ten years to do it from scratch. The deal was fair - French build two ships before Russia takes over, designers are happy, workers are happy, Russians are happy, but uncle Sam thought otherwise.

[lovetotravel]

I would think that the French resisted making this move until they were paid by the Russians. Now that they have the money, they can halt the delivery. I am just amazed that Russia can not build their own ships, and that the French can.

They will have to return advance payment and probably pay a fine, which should be specified in the contract.

Russians needed the design to start building their own, in their estimates it would have taken them ten years to do it from scratch. The deal was fair - French build two ships before Russia takes over, designers are happy, workers are happy, Russians are happy, but uncle Sam thought otherwise.

It's not just the US who is pressuring the French. Lots of countries are:

http://www.the-news-daily.com/bucking-eu-pressure-france-commits-to-russian-warship-delivery_209423

Bucking EU pressure, France commits to Russian warship delivery

Undeterred by criticism from his European allies, French President Frana§ois Hollande said today he would proceed with the controversial sale of a warship to Russia, but may reconsider the sale of a second ship.

European Union foreign ministers met today in Brussels to discuss greater sanctions on Russia over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine. It-s the first gathering of the 28-member bloc since the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17, allegedly by pro-Russia rebels in Ukraine. Almost 300 people, including more than 200 EU nationals, died.

EU leaders have been divided since day one over how to force Russian President Vladimir Putin to quell the ongoing instability in Ukraine. But the crash has hardened positions on Russia, especially in the Netherlands.

http://atlanticsentinel.com/2014/07/defying-pressure-from-allies-france-to-deliver-warship-to-russia/

As European foreign ministers met in Brussels on Tuesday to discuss tightening sanctions on Russia following the crash of a commercial airliner in the east of Ukraine, France said it could not cancel the delivery of the first of two helicopter carriers to the country.

President François Hollande did tell reporters in Paris he might be prepared to cancel the sale of a second Mistral warship if the European Union decided to expand its sanctions against Russia. “That will depend on Russia’s attitude,” he said.

Edited September 5, 2014 by lovetotravel