Give student gang members hope, not jail: Thai editorial

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Give student gang members hope, not jail
The Nation

The fact that so many of our youngsters give in so easily to peer pressure suggests society hasn't offered them a better alternative

BANGKOK: -- Few doubt there is some truth to the allegation, but there is nevertheless concern that a young Army private will take all the heat for what is, in fact, a social ill that no one has yet managed to effectively curb.

Police have accused Private Rapeepat Phothitanutch, 22, of training and organising a group of thugs, the self-proclaimed "Ayodhaya Warriors Army".

Ayutthaya police have asked Army commanders at Adisorn military camp in Saraburi province, where Rapeepat is based, to investigate allegations that the young soldier applied his Army skills to train vocational students in combat techniques they could use against students from rival schools.

Police say his activities constitute a threat to national security.

Specifically, Private Rapeepat is accused of leading 18 students from Ayutthaya Technical College in a brawl with students from Ayutthaya Ship Building Industrial and Technology College.

Police also believe that Rappeepat provided training in firearms and fighting with knives.

The clash took place at a busy fresh market in downtown Ayutthaya last Thursday.

The two sides were armed with machetes, swords, axes, rocks and clubs. The clash left three students injured, one seriously.

Surveillance-camera footage shows Rapeepat wielding a machete and chasing after students from the other college.

Police nabbed six of the combatants on the spot and arrest warrants have been issued for 13 others, including the Army private. They have been charged with, among other things, colluding to commit murder and illegal possession of weapons.

There is no doubt that this incident was no mere after-school scuffle among wayward kids, the sort of thing most of us witnessed during our student days.

Here we are dealing with the use of deadly weapons, planning and training, all of which suggest the culprits were "playing for keeps".

But to pin the blame on a single "rogue" soldier would be a grave mistake. Rapeepat was just one individual caught up in senseless cyclical violence not confined to vocational schools in Ayutthaya but afflicting institutions all over the country.

To uncover the roots of the violence we need to look beyond the alleged actions of an undisciplined soldier and focus on an ailing society unable to solve problems associated with delinquency and criminality among the youth.

Such violence can crop up anywhere. The technical schools just happen to provide the right conditions: groups of youths seeking superficial collective identity and finding it in student gangs.

But the fact that so many youngsters give in so easily to peer pressure suggests that we, as a society, don't have a better alternative to offer them. For many, being a member of a gang is attractive and glamorous, since it gives them status and a sense of belonging. However, in their desperation to outdo the other side - the "enemy" - violence can spin out of control, expanding until it engulfs the entire community.

To hand this problem entirely to the law and its enforcers is to ignore the fact that youth violence is a social problem that can only be solved with a comprehensive approach. Schools, parents and community leaders all have a role to play. But they can't approach these young people empty-handed. We must come up with something to offer them, to show them there is more to life than senseless violence that only begets more violence.

Locking up the suspects addresses the symptoms of the problem, not its root cause.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Give-student-gang-members-hope-not-jail-30242546.html


-- The Nation 2014-09-05

[chainarong]

Give them a shovel and a wheelbarrow and start cleaning the streets and vacant blocks throughout Thailand, for females throw them in age care area's and start emptying bed pans and cleaning floors , so they are recognised to the public an orange bandana and an armed soldier along for moral boosting , this could be integrated with the military, supplying trucks for transport and rubbish removal. This project could be called community Service.

[trogers]

I prefer learning from history - the time of the arena and gladiators.

[ggt]

The victims of these juvenile thugs...would respectfully disagree...

If you do the crime...then the consequence...do the time...no pity party please...

[Don Aleman]

What ?, Hope ? Give them what they fear the most - disrespect. A public beating, on their bare ass,in a very public place where their friends/relatives/other gang members can witness his/her humiliation

[bino]

I believe a hard-line stance is needed. Enough of these need some serious jail time so that the consequences of these actions becomes fully understood. Only then when "hope" is given, it is appreciated and respected.

[Timwin]

I believe a hard-line stance is needed. Enough of these need some serious jail time so that the consequences of these actions becomes fully understood. Only then when "hope" is given, it is appreciated and respected.

This isn't 1950's. Americans have used those populist "zero tolerance" and "three strikes" laws and still it is a serious crime infested shithole compared to most western European countries with emphasis on rehabilitation of criminals. California spends yearly more money to prisons than to higher education.

[GentlemanJim]

But to pin the blame on a single "rogue" soldier would be a grave mistake. Rapeepat was just one individual caught up in senseless cyclical violence not confined to vocational schools in Ayutthaya but afflicting institutions all over the country.

I dont think anyone is trying to pin the blame on one soldier but if the account written by the journo is accurate then the little sluggard deserves jail time. Worry about society later.

[Traveler19491]

I would agree, to a point, with those who are saying that a hard line needs to be taken. I also agree with the article's claim that society is to blame...again, to a point. Obviously, these young people are seeking some form of peer acceptance, and there definitely needs to be a constructive outlet for that. However, these young thugs have made a conscious choice to engage in violent behavior, and there most definitely needs to be a firm demonstration that actions have consequences. The solution lies somewhere in the middle; an acceptable form of community identity that will permit those who seek it a way to "belong" that will convey both acceptance and esteem, which will, hopefully, serve as a viable alternative to gang membership. At the same time, those who choose to go the gang route should not be coddled, nor should society shoulder all of the blame. When a person makes a choice, no one is making that choice for them. Yes, there is peer pressure to join a gang, but seldom is anyone holding a gun to their head. They need very clear demonstrations that, you do the crime, you do the time.

[seajae]

those participating in this sort of thing should be immediately expelled from the college/uni/school involved and not be allowed to go to any other learning institution in Thailand, maybe when they know their careers/future will be wiped they will stop and think twice before doing it. Anyone helping/training them should be automatically jailed and given big fines and the learning institutions concerned should also be held responsible.

All this fighting/hazing that is becoming a big part of thai education needs to be stopped, anyone found participating or promoting or allowing it to happen should also be removed/expelled with fines and jail time, this is the only way to stop it, threaten their futures.

[weegee]

Give them hope?....Pig's Ding....jail them.

[Thaiready]

Written by a Liberal for sure....."just give them hugs and all will be ok" NOT

[Bluespunk]

What ?, Hope ? Give them what they fear the most - disrespect. A public beating, on their bare ass,in a very public place where their friends/relatives/other gang members can witness his/her humiliation

Won't work. These kids in all likelihood been beaten and humiliated in the past and this is what they have become. A more intelligent approach than thuggish violence is required.

[Bluespunk]

Written by a Liberal for sure....."just give them hugs and all will be ok" NOT

There has to be a balance. Yes punish those who commit crimes, but there had to be hope of a better future or else the punishment fails to achieve anything in the long term.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

Give them hope?....Pig's Ding....jail them.

And when they get out? What then?

[trogers]

Give them hope?....Pig's Ding....jail them.

And when they get out? What then?

That's why there should be an arena where only one walks out.

[BSJ]

Jail. And make it hard time at that.

[Traveler19491]

Give them hope?....Pig's Ding....jail them.

And when they get out? What then?

That's why there should be an arena where only one walks out.

I love it when the knuckle dragging cretins throw in some really "creative" suggestions like this. "Kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out!" Every single problem that any society faces is the end result of the failures of that society. BUT...you also have to factor in "free will", meaning that each individual makes, and has made, their own choices, and must be held accountable for them. The purpose of punishment is NOT supposed to be revenge, but correction. AND the punishment should always be GREATER than the crime, if it is to act as a deterrent. However, brutality for the sake of brutality, or revenge, never has, and never will work. The only thing that will work is a combination of corrective retribution, coupled with societal changes that will provide attractive alternatives sufficient to motivate the offender (or potential offender) to make different choices. Answering thuggery with thuggery only reveals the true nature of the individual/society.

[trogers]

Give them hope?....Pig's Ding....jail them.

And when they get out? What then?

That's why there should be an arena where only one walks out.

I love it when the knuckle dragging cretins throw in some really "creative" suggestions like this. "Kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out!" Every single problem that any society faces is the end result of the failures of that society. BUT...you also have to factor in "free will", meaning that each individual makes, and has made, their own choices, and must be held accountable for them. The purpose of punishment is NOT supposed to be revenge, but correction. AND the punishment should always be GREATER than the crime, if it is to act as a deterrent. However, brutality for the sake of brutality, or revenge, never has, and never will work. The only thing that will work is a combination of corrective retribution, coupled with societal changes that will provide attractive alternatives sufficient to motivate the offender (or potential offender) to make different choices. Answering thuggery with thuggery only reveals the true nature of the individual/society.

It is not a punishment nor revenge when society supports the aspirations of these thugs, and make them a reality.

[LuckyLew]

Give them jail and let them hope they survive the Thai penal system

[Bluespunk]

Give them jail and let them hope they survive the Thai penal system

And when they get out? What then?

[EricBerg]

In Holland prisons are being closed because the numbers of prisoners are dropping for over 5 years now:

- Hard drugs related crime by hard drugs addict (the largest group of prisoners in the past) by now is very small because of the Dutch policy in this. The largest group now is the one of drugs traffickers.

- The number of prisoners convicted for hold-ups of shops (supermarkets, jewellers, gas stations) has dropped over 60%. Mainly because of improved security measures.

- The number of juveniles has dropped big time because of early detection of kids going the wrong way and then have a combined effort (justice department, social work, school) in dealing with the kids. Always those legally responsible for their upbringing (parents) get involved. Whether they like it or not. Parents f.i. get fines if the kids fail school too often. And when tehy want to get rid of the kids by letting the government deal with them they will still have to pay for their offspring untill maturity (18 years old). The wallet often is a good motivation for certain parents to deal in an acceptable way with their children.

Here in TV tough one-liners are popular with many. In general they express stupidity more than solutions.

Edited September 6, 2014 by EricBerg

[trogers]

In Holland prisons are being closed because the numbers of prisoners are dropping for over 5 years now:

- Hard drugs related crime by hard drugs addict (the largest group of prisoners in the past) by now is very small because of the Dutch policy in this. The largest group now is the one of drugs traffickers.

- The number of prisoners convicted for hold-ups of shops (supermarkets, jewellers, gas stations) has dropped over 60%. Mainly because of improved security measures.

- The number of juveniles has dropped big time because of early detection of kids going the wrong way and then have a combined effort (justice department, social work, school) in dealing with the kids. Always those legally responsible for their upbringing (parents) get involved. Whether they like it or not. Parents f.i. get fines if the kids fail school too often. And when tehy want to get rid of the kids by letting the government deal with them they will still have to pay for their offspring untill maturity (18 years old). The wallet often is a good motivation for certain parents to deal in an acceptable way with their children.

Here in TV tough one-liners are popular with many. In general they express stupidity more than solutions.

How many single parents are there in Holland, mostly single women moonlighting for extra income to send back to support kid(s) and parents?

Whose wallets do you refer to in Thailand, the land of populist policies?

[EricBerg]

In Holland prisons are being closed because the numbers of prisoners are dropping for over 5 years now:

- Hard drugs related crime by hard drugs addict (the largest group of prisoners in the past) by now is very small because of the Dutch policy in this. The largest group now is the one of drugs traffickers.

- The number of prisoners convicted for hold-ups of shops (supermarkets, jewellers, gas stations) has dropped over 60%. Mainly because of improved security measures.

- The number of juveniles has dropped big time because of early detection of kids going the wrong way and then have a combined effort (justice department, social work, school) in dealing with the kids. Always those legally responsible for their upbringing (parents) get involved. Whether they like it or not. Parents f.i. get fines if the kids fail school too often. And when tehy want to get rid of the kids by letting the government deal with them they will still have to pay for their offspring untill maturity (18 years old). The wallet often is a good motivation for certain parents to deal in an acceptable way with their children.

Here in TV tough one-liners are popular with many. In general they express stupidity more than solutions.

How many single parents are there in Holland, mostly single women moonlighting for extra income to send back to support kid(s) and parents?

Whose wallets do you refer to in Thailand, the land of populist policies?

From the 2.3 million homes with children in Holland there are about 400.000 single parent homes. Of that number an estimated 60.000 have a steady partner who participates in bringing up the child(ren), including taking financial responsibility. I'm not sure what you mean by moonlighting for extra income. Prostitution? If so, then that will be a few only as most prostitutes in Holland come from other countries or do not have children.

The wallets that look different in Thailand can be replaced by forcing the parents to regular councelling and showing up for various obligatory meetings. The principle is that the discomfort will be much less when they do well with their kids.

[IamNoone88]

Sounds like Thailand's getting soft like the UK and looks what's happened there. Better not hurt any thugs feelings, give them a chance, respect their individual rights.

Stuff them - they lost these rights as soon as they started on a course of anti-social behavior and violence - lock the thugs up and start handing down some tough sentences or else you'll end up like a nanny state - the UK.

[trogers]

In Holland prisons are being closed because the numbers of prisoners are dropping for over 5 years now:

- Hard drugs related crime by hard drugs addict (the largest group of prisoners in the past) by now is very small because of the Dutch policy in this. The largest group now is the one of drugs traffickers.

- The number of prisoners convicted for hold-ups of shops (supermarkets, jewellers, gas stations) has dropped over 60%. Mainly because of improved security measures.

- The number of juveniles has dropped big time because of early detection of kids going the wrong way and then have a combined effort (justice department, social work, school) in dealing with the kids. Always those legally responsible for their upbringing (parents) get involved. Whether they like it or not. Parents f.i. get fines if the kids fail school too often. And when tehy want to get rid of the kids by letting the government deal with them they will still have to pay for their offspring untill maturity (18 years old). The wallet often is a good motivation for certain parents to deal in an acceptable way with their children.

Here in TV tough one-liners are popular with many. In general they express stupidity more than solutions.

How many single parents are there in Holland, mostly single women moonlighting for extra income to send back to support kid(s) and parents?

Whose wallets do you refer to in Thailand, the land of populist policies?

From the 2.3 million homes with children in Holland there are about 400.000 single parent homes. Of that number an estimated 60.000 have a steady partner who participates in bringing up the child(ren), including taking financial responsibility. I'm not sure what you mean by moonlighting for extra income. Prostitution? If so, then that will be a few only as most prostitutes in Holland come from other countries or do not have children.

The wallets that look different in Thailand can be replaced by forcing the parents to regular councelling and showing up for various obligatory meetings. The principle is that the discomfort will be much less when they do well with their kids.

Forcing the parents? You would most probably be forcing the grandparent of the problem kid while the mum is in the city busy finding the money.

[EricBerg]

In Holland prisons are being closed because the numbers of prisoners are dropping for over 5 years now:

- Hard drugs related crime by hard drugs addict (the largest group of prisoners in the past) by now is very small because of the Dutch policy in this. The largest group now is the one of drugs traffickers.

- The number of prisoners convicted for hold-ups of shops (supermarkets, jewellers, gas stations) has dropped over 60%. Mainly because of improved security measures.

- The number of juveniles has dropped big time because of early detection of kids going the wrong way and then have a combined effort (justice department, social work, school) in dealing with the kids. Always those legally responsible for their upbringing (parents) get involved. Whether they like it or not. Parents f.i. get fines if the kids fail school too often. And when tehy want to get rid of the kids by letting the government deal with them they will still have to pay for their offspring untill maturity (18 years old). The wallet often is a good motivation for certain parents to deal in an acceptable way with their children.

Here in TV tough one-liners are popular with many. In general they express stupidity more than solutions.

How many single parents are there in Holland, mostly single women moonlighting for extra income to send back to support kid(s) and parents?

Whose wallets do you refer to in Thailand, the land of populist policies?

From the 2.3 million homes with children in Holland there are about 400.000 single parent homes. Of that number an estimated 60.000 have a steady partner who participates in bringing up the child(ren), including taking financial responsibility. I'm not sure what you mean by moonlighting for extra income. Prostitution? If so, then that will be a few only as most prostitutes in Holland come from other countries or do not have children.

The wallets that look different in Thailand can be replaced by forcing the parents to regular councelling and showing up for various obligatory meetings. The principle is that the discomfort will be much less when they do well with their kids.

Forcing the parents? You would most probably be forcing the grandparent of the problem kid while the mum is in the city busy finding the money.

Sounds like you are promoting doing nothing? If you keep doing what you did you will keep getting what you got: Youthgangs and and heaps of abused kids.

[trogers]

The social structure is different between Holland and Thailand. Holland is primarily middle-income class, while two-thirds of the Thai people are in the low-income group.

When this country cannot even get its acts together with a good and working system for basic education, I doubt they can find a working solution on problem kids.

Edited September 6, 2014 by trogers

[belg]

some please make all muay thai schools illegal, full of thugs .... people can learn to be come a mean street fighting machine

[Bluespunk]

Give them hope?....Pig's Ding....jail them.

And when they get out? What then?

That's why there should be an arena where only one walks out.

An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.

Mahatma Gandhi