Queries about divorce....my 'wife' turned out to be a total crackpot

[Rob180]

I have read often on here that if both parties agree to a divorce and attend at any Amphur, a divorce can be granted very quickly. However, I also read somewhere that a foreigner requires to have his passport translated and legalised by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs before a divorce can be granted. Is this correct or not?

Also is it straightforward to get a divorce from the UK without consent after 2 years of separation if the grounds are desertion? My wife came to the UK on a spouse visa 5 months after we married in Thailand, but stayed only 3 months then had some sort of meltdown about having to go home and due to her total irrationality and crackpot behaviour, I had to get her a plane ticket back to Thailand...... at my expense of course. I'm still trying to work out how she went from 95-100% normal for 3 months into a total crackpot faster than you could turn a light switch on and off ???

If the Amphur is simpler than I thought, that's good. Although I expect it won't stop her wanting 50,000 baht to sign the papers.

Should I see a lawyer now or is there no point until 2 years have elapsed?

Is there even any point in bothering with a divorce as surely she cannot be entitled to anything now or in future having stayed only 3 months and contributed zero financially to the 'marriage'? I certainly don't need a divorce to marry someone else after this experience that's for sure.

Thanks for any advice.

[manarak]

Western countries tend to have that effect on normal people, especially when living on a budget - they come to Western countries expecting total bliss, but they see the reality is that everything is either forbidden or too expensive and shops offer no service in addition of being closed most of the time...

[Rob180]

Western countries tend to have that effect on normal people, especially when living on a budget - they come to Western countries expecting total bliss, but they see the reality is that everything is either forbidden or too expensive and shops offer no service in addition of being closed most of the time...

I wish it had been that simple Manarak, but really she had ample of everything, without necessarily spending a lot of money, including sending money home every month which was not far from double what she made from her job before she came here.... albeit sent to a family who got rid of money faster than you and I could on a roulette wheel. Whilst there were numerous factors involved, one which didn't help at all was them telling her almost daily down the phone they've no money. With hindsight I would disconnect my cheap Skype phone package so these type of calls couldn't be made except maybe once a week. The sensible thing for them to do would have been to lay off her and give her 6 months to find a job to reduce the pressure on her, but firstly they appeared to have zero common sense to think past tomorrow and secondly their budgeting skills were on a par with a chimpanzee with learning difficulties. Example: when we left Thailand to come to UK in March, I gave them 12,000 thinking that will at least keep them out her face to give her 2 or 3 weeks to settle in the UK. Outcome? Day 7 after our plane landed.......NO MONEY. I explained to her that 12k is £250 and that people here where everything costs about double or more than what it does in Issan could eat and pay minimum bills off that for longer than they managed. She didn't seem able to explain why they shipped money like a casino gambler apart from repaying debt to other people, but it stressed her out and she'd been here only 1 week.

I certainly blame them partly for what happened, unfortunately I think there were more problems inside her head as well as these ridiculous money demands. I've been to her home and village 3 times, nobody was sitting on wooden boxes in threadbare clothes with nothing to eat . One local guy around 40 who was lying in a hammock told me he didn't bother working apart from helping out on a farm 1 or 2 days a week, because the city was too far from the village . It's actually about 40 minutes away and 30 baht each way on the bus. It takes me more than 40 minutes to get to work in the UK some days. It's laughable.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Rob180

[Thai at Heart]

Western countries tend to have that effect on normal people, especially when living on a budget - they come to Western countries expecting total bliss, but they see the reality is that everything is either forbidden or too expensive and shops offer no service in addition of being closed most of the time...

I wish it had been that simple Manarak, but really she had ample of everything, without necessarily spending a lot of money, including sending money home every month which was not far from double what she made from her job before she came here.... albeit sent to a family who got rid of money faster than you and I could on a roulette wheel. Whilst there were numerous factors involved, one which didn't help at all was them telling her almost daily down the phone they've no money. With hindsight I would disconnect my cheap Skype phone package so these type of calls couldn't be made except maybe once a week. The sensible thing for them to do would have been to lay off her and give her 6 months to find a job to reduce the pressure on her, but firstly they appeared to have zero common sense to think past tomorrow and secondly their budgeting skills were on a par with a chimpanzee with learning difficulties. Example: when we left Thailand to come to UK in March, I gave them 12,000 thinking that will at least keep them out her face to give her 2 or 3 weeks to settle in the UK. Outcome? Day 7 after our plane landed.......NO MONEY. I explained to her that 12k is £250 and that people here where everything costs about double or more than what it does in Issan could eat and pay minimum bills off that for longer than they managed. She didn't seem able to explain why they shipped money like a casino gambler apart from repaying debt to other people, but it stressed her out and she'd been here only 1 week.

I certainly blame them partly for what happened, unfortunately I think there were more problems inside her head as well as these ridiculous money demands. I've been to her home and village 3 times, nobody was sitting on wooden boxes in threadbare clothes with nothing to eat . One local guy around 40 who was lying in a hammock told me he didn't bother working apart from helping out on a farm 1 or 2 days a week, because the city was too far from the village . It's actually about 40 minutes away and 30 baht each way on the bus. It takes me more than 40 minutes to get to work in the UK some days. It's laughable.

Rob, oh rob, oh rob.

12k for a family for 3 weeks.

That was blown on scotch the second day

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Moved to the MARRIAGES & DIVORCE forum.

Mac

[thaitakeaway]

"Is there even any point in bothering with a divorce as surely she cannot be entitled to anything now or in future having stayed only 3 months and contributed zero financially to the 'marriage'? I certainly don't need a divorce to marry someone else after this experience that's for sure."

Rob180, that 2nd sentence I quoted has your present intention firmly as: I will never marry again. And fair enough.

OK, then, just sit it out. You haven't said her age, but let's assume she is 35 or less and childless, one day she might want to marry again, you know - Isaan family values / tradition / conservatism yada yada yada.

Now the boot's firmly on the other foot - especially if YOU go AWOL/uncontactable, as you said she most likely will anyway if you do nothing, then she's well and truly [very naughty swear word]!

I notice you raised this same question 2 months ago, and got a lawyer's free advice - which wasn't pretty.

I do feel for you though, having had only 7 months of married "bliss" out of the first 8 months after the wedding, and then she's run home to mama.

[Sena Dave]

It gets interesting when kids are involved , the hard bargaining really begins

That first bit about the passport sounds like <deleted> , I never had to do that

[Rob180]

"Is there even any point in bothering with a divorce as surely she cannot be entitled to anything now or in future having stayed only 3 months and contributed zero financially to the 'marriage'? I certainly don't need a divorce to marry someone else after this experience that's for sure."

Rob180, that 2nd sentence I quoted has your present intention firmly as: I will never marry again. And fair enough.

OK, then, just sit it out. You haven't said her age, but let's assume she is 35 or less and childless, one day she might want to marry again, you know - Isaan family values / tradition / conservatism yada yada yada.

Now the boot's firmly on the other foot - especially if YOU go AWOL/uncontactable, as you said she most likely will anyway if you do nothing, then she's well and truly [very naughty swear word]!

I notice you raised this same question 2 months ago, and got a lawyer's free advice - which wasn't pretty.

I do feel for you though, having had only 7 months of married "bliss" out of the first 8 months after the wedding, and then she's run home to mama.

She does have children (but not to me thankfully) but I take your point, I'm not sure it's worth me bothering with a divorce. Yes I did raise it a while back, but the lawyer's advice referred to having to go back to Thailand no matter what, which isn't correct I don't think, although he maybe meant if I didn't want to wait. If the Amphur is simple and there is no legalisation of passport required, then that would be the easiest option (any financial demands apart that is). Laughably enough, at the moment she's sending texts suggesting she might want to come back to the UK. Crazy? Probably, and also yet another woman who can never make her mind up, no offence to females intended!

Edited September 12, 2014 by Rob180

[Rob180]

They don't really drink to be honest, even more reason why their failure to budget is nonsensical. The 'spend this and falang will send more' angle doesn't really cut it either as that didn't happen either until next month's was due. Frankly, I don't know what they did with it. Debt to others is probably the answer, up to their eyes in it.

[Baerboxer]

"Is there even any point in bothering with a divorce as surely she cannot be entitled to anything now or in future having stayed only 3 months and contributed zero financially to the 'marriage'? I certainly don't need a divorce to marry someone else after this experience that's for sure."

Rob180, that 2nd sentence I quoted has your present intention firmly as: I will never marry again. And fair enough.

OK, then, just sit it out. You haven't said her age, but let's assume she is 35 or less and childless, one day she might want to marry again, you know - Isaan family values / tradition / conservatism yada yada yada.

Now the boot's firmly on the other foot - especially if YOU go AWOL/uncontactable, as you said she most likely will anyway if you do nothing, then she's well and truly [very naughty swear word]!

I notice you raised this same question 2 months ago, and got a lawyer's free advice - which wasn't pretty.

I do feel for you though, having had only 7 months of married "bliss" out of the first 8 months after the wedding, and then she's run home to mama.

She does have children (but not to me thankfully) but I take your point, I'm not sure it's worth me bothering with a divorce. Yes I did raise it a while back, but the lawyer's advice referred to having to go back to Thailand no matter what, which isn't correct I don't think, although he maybe meant if I didn't want to wait. If the Amphur is simple and there is no legalisation of passport required, then that would be the easiest option (any financial demands apart that is). Laughably enough, at the moment she's sending texts suggesting she might want to come back to the UK. Crazy? Probably, and also yet another woman who can never make her mind up, no offence to females intended!

Were her children with you in the UK? How many, how old?

Imagine the pressure on her. Not having her kids with her, family (the extended one usually) all expecting handouts now that she's married a rich farang and living where the streets are paved with gold. Family asking for money for looking after her kids, constantly using that as leverage.

Seriously, moving from Isaan to UK would be a culture shock for anybody. Had she traveled before?

Don't be too scornful on her. I've seen a lot worse from the bar girl brigade who sucked their new hubby dry, (ooops - financially I mean). shagged around and then pissed off back home when they'd cleaned him out.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Baerboxer

[apiwan]

If you both go to the amphur and agree.

She needs id card and you need passport.

No translation or legitimising needed for passport.

Palad amphur may insist the attachments for kids and shattles be translated.

As you have neither kids or belongings together.

Should be straight forward.

[Rob180]

No the kids stayed in Thailand, they're age 9 and 10, but as is normal in Thailand she didn't see much of them, but I take your point about actually being so far away from them and family. As for travelled before.....no, so it would have been a culture shock but she appeared to really like it here, that's the strangest thing. There was nothing in her behaviour for 3 months to suggest there was anything bothering her to such an extent that she would soon go into meltdown and have to go home, although due to the way it happened so suddenly she had obviously been bottling something up for weeks maybe even longer.

In Thailand she worries constantly about money as her family as I've said, get rid of cash quicker than burning it on a barbecue. The money problem was considerably alleviated when she came here, but she has gone back to have to deal with the same impossible situation. Makes zero sense that aspect, but it is understandable any person may feel they need to be near home and not 7000 miles away. Having said that, how many Thai women come to UK or Europe on marriage visas and go home within 3 months? Maybe it's 1 in 1000 or maybe its not as uncommon as I think !?

[Rob180]

If you both go to the amphur and agree.

She needs id card and you need passport.

No translation or legitimising needed for passport.

Palad amphur may insist the attachments for kids and shattles be translated.

As you have neither kids or belongings together.

Should be straight forward.

So there is no need for legalisation of the passport? The article I read was very clear this did need to be done, but of course it could have been bull and I can't remember where I saw it now!

[ezzra]

With most Thais, you can take them out of Thailand, but very difficult to take Thailand out of them...

[asdecas]

They don't really drink to be honest, even more reason why their failure to budget is nonsensical. The 'spend this and falang will send more' angle doesn't really cut it either as that didn't happen either until next month's was due. Frankly, I don't know what they did with it. Debt to others is probably the answer, up to their eyes in it.

I don't know whether this applies in your case but the very poor throughout the world have never known anything but a hand-to-mouth life of subsistence, often for generations. The concept of saving money, and of budgeting, are constructs that come with having income which is not already spoken for on the bare necessities of eating, clothing and shelter, of perceived duty to family and often too on the addictions of drugs, drink and gambling that may come later as a consequence of grinding poverty over decades. Budgeting is a hard concept to instil in an adult who has no reference point.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

No the kids stayed in Thailand, they're age 9 and 10, but as is normal in Thailand she didn't see much of them, but I take your point about actually being so far away from them and family. As for travelled before.....no, so it would have been a culture shock but she appeared to really like it here, that's the strangest thing. There was nothing in her behaviour for 3 months to suggest there was anything bothering her to such an extent that she would soon go into meltdown and have to go home, although due to the way it happened so suddenly she had obviously been bottling something up for weeks maybe even longer.

Reality is, they can pretend they like/love you for about 3 months, then their real feelings come to the fore and they go mad.

She didn't like you very much and married you for the money you appeared to have.

No translation needed for divorce.

Don't give her money, being married is a bigger problem for her than it is for you.

Edited September 13, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[AlphMichaels]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Western countries tend to have that effect on normal people, especially when living on a budget - they come to Western countries expecting total bliss, but they see the reality is that everything is either forbidden or too expensive and shops offer no service in addition of being closed most of the time...

I wish it had been that simple Manarak, but really she had ample of everything, without necessarily spending a lot of money, including sending money home every month which was not far from double what she made from her job before she came here.... albeit sent to a family who got rid of money faster than you and I could on a roulette wheel. Whilst there were numerous factors involved, one which didn't help at all was them telling her almost daily down the phone they've no money. With hindsight I would disconnect my cheap Skype phone package so these type of calls couldn't be made except maybe once a week. The sensible thing for them to do would have been to lay off her and give her 6 months to find a job to reduce the pressure on her, but firstly they appeared to have zero common sense to think past tomorrow and secondly their budgeting skills were on a par with a chimpanzee with learning difficulties. Example: when we left Thailand to come to UK in March, I gave them 12,000 thinking that will at least keep them out her face to give her 2 or 3 weeks to settle in the UK. Outcome? Day 7 after our plane landed.......NO MONEY. I explained to her that 12k is £250 and that people here where everything costs about double or more than what it does in Issan could eat and pay minimum bills off that for longer than they managed. She didn't seem able to explain why they shipped money like a casino gambler apart from repaying debt to other people, but it stressed her out and she'd been here only 1 week.

I certainly blame them partly for what happened, unfortunately I think there were more problems inside her head as well as these ridiculous money demands. I've been to her home and village 3 times, nobody was sitting on wooden boxes in threadbare clothes with nothing to eat alt=biggrin.png> . One local guy around 40 who was lying in a hammock told me he didn't bother working apart from helping out on a farm 1 or 2 days a week, because the city was too far from the village alt=biggrin.png> . It's actually about 40 minutes away and 30 baht each way on the bus. It takes me more than 40 minutes to get to work in the UK some days. It's laughable.

Rob, I feel for you..., really I do. But I've heard the story 100 times or more in the 16 years since I started coming and now having lived here the last 4. There's a book you should try to pick up called Jungle Fever. Might help.

Agree with a couple other posts..., regardless of her level headed approach here..., if she's never been directly exposed to western culture before it's a great deal to take in. Homesick is inevitable and some handle it better than others.

Regarding the family and 12,000THB..., even 100,000 handed out would likely have still ended with a call in the same time frame saying "all gone".

Good luck.

[remorhaz]

"Laughably enough, at the moment she's sending texts suggesting she might want to come back to the UK. Crazy?"

Not crazy at all. When she was there her family got money every 7 days now how much are you sending? Her "wanting to come back" can best be translated as "wanting for the weekly baht infusion to continue". Her family just doesn't want the money spigot to stop and they'll send her back to beg from you in person because that's more effective.

Understand you are dealing with Thais. How do they think? A little history... so it's medieval Europe and you decide to sell your seed for next years harvest in exchange for mead/whiskey/hooch or whatever will you get you drunk - what happens? You DIE. You don't plant and decide to be lazy? Death. It's hot/cold/rainy/foggy and you don't want to work in the fields? Death. Now what was life in Thailand like in comparison? Nobody plants anything. Harvest season is all year round and the last time someone froze to death it was the last ice age. You walk around in the hot sun all year round and when you are hungry you kick a tree and food falls out. Your biggest concern is getting killed by criminals or being impressed into some army. Future planning? What the hell is that? If you have something EAT IT NOW USE IT NOW as tomorrow isn't important. In Europe if you thought this way you died and such people were quickly culled out of the population but in Thailand those that saved were simply objects of begging, taxing, raiding, criminal theft, etc. and nobody cares about starving in winter because it doesn't exist.

So you get idiotic stories like this with Thais demanding way too much way too quickly and their lack of patience kills the golden goose after a single egg. Its stupid to us because the people we grew up with have a future mind set - the Thais DON'T. Drop them in Europe circa 1000 B.C. and subject them to 3,000 years of pummeling by nature and maybe they'll think differently (or die). Her family is acting as a spoiled child acts - everything must be NOW NOW NOW NOW. The only thing a person can do is make it very clear that there will be a set amount of money at a set point and this will not increase nor will you be moved by whatever fake emergency they come up with. The sun sets and will not come up until morning - all the screaming, shrieking, guilt, manipulative attempts, and lies will not change this. Be as immovable as the heavens, there is no other way when dealing with this.

[thhMan]

The fact that you pointed out the flight was "At my expense" kind of indicates that you believe that your money is all yours to dish out as you see fit... That is not what marriage is about and perhaps your "crackpot" felt caged by you

Being a crackpot is one thing

Being a cheap charlie is another!

[tomyumchai]

No the kids stayed in Thailand, they're age 9 and 10, but as is normal in Thailand she didn't see much of them, but I take your point about actually being so far away from them and family. As for travelled before.....no, so it would have been a culture shock but she appeared to really like it here, that's the strangest thing. There was nothing in her behaviour for 3 months to suggest there was anything bothering her to such an extent that she would soon go into meltdown and have to go home, although due to the way it happened so suddenly she had obviously been bottling something up for weeks maybe even longer.

In Thailand she worries constantly about money as her family as I've said, get rid of cash quicker than burning it on a barbecue. The money problem was considerably alleviated when she came here, but she has gone back to have to deal with the same impossible situation. Makes zero sense that aspect, but it is understandable any person may feel they need to be near home and not 7000 miles away. Having said that, how many Thai women come to UK or Europe on marriage visas and go home within 3 months? Maybe it's 1 in 1000 or maybe its not as uncommon as I think !?

i had 1 like yours around 2006, i brought her over here to give her a better idea of 'life on the other side of the world'. she ended up best budddies with a laos girl in the next street! she went a bit wobbly after 3 months and insisted she had to get back home so i gave her a ticket and dropped her off at the bus station.

unfortunately for her she had left her email account open and it appeared she was missing 'luigi' too much........not a thai name im familiar with? it seemed she had to get back to him non the less.... oh hum.......anyone wanting to know what the west is like these years gets directed to youtube.

[slipperylobster]

With most Thais, you can take them out of Thailand, but very difficult to take Thailand out of them...

I could not even get the bar out of mine.

[Rob180]

Another One American.......thanks for your thoughts.

Sadly I think your comments about the 3 months part are almost surely very accurate, hence why she changed overnight like a light switch. Maybe some people can come and continue to be 'fake' for the financial benefits of being able to send money home etc, and I do know of some Thai girls who do do that here because they told my ex-wife that, but others like you say maybe are unable to keep the act up longer than 2 or 3 months and she appears to have been one of those. She did actually give some clues that she had been 'fake' to some extent before she went home, which is better than lying for 2 or 10 years I suppose then disappearing. Although either way, it isn't a great outcome after months of waiting on visas, sitting English and TB tests, and of course the money it all cost.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Rob180

[kinmaew]

Thais can flip quick, not all but some. I guess I was not keeping the best company but in CM picked up a kitty at a bar and she said "No bar fine" we go eat Som Tam stupid me thinking I am saving money. We go to this place not far from the bar its some rooftop place I buy the food and hope we can get going soon and I see the Mammasan coming to join us. I ask if we can get going soon and kitty says: "She my mother, why you like this??" in an angry tone, at that point I just want to pay the bill and leave. In the end I got nothing, waste of time. Seems I still have not learnt.

[enufsaid]

Rob180, and you're surprised because???? Sending money home is normal practice & so is the speed with which they spend, unless they've been born into money it doesn't appear to last long in their hands & if your girlfriend /wife was working as " hairdresser" masseuse " bar maid" money doesn't seem to last long, old adage , eat come easy go, really applies here. I have Thai friends who've married Falangs & they're not sending money back to the "familiy" chances are it's her " real" husband she's sending it to. Aside from everything else, just as Thailand can cause culture shock to Falangs, so to does the western world have massive culture shock on Thais or anyone else. My suggestion to anyone marrying a Thai is to research research & learn about the culture.

[realenglish1]

No translation needed for a divorce. I did a divorce at the amphor and not problem Just sign the papers .

As for you wife pulling a nutter on you. My guess is she just wanted to get the sin sod from you and that is that

Sorry but that is how is sounds .

Good luck with your divorce

[Nemesis7]

Be happy, sing the paper and get going my friend. Thank god, you still have the money to fly in to file the divorce. A lot of people had to apply for social welfare after getting married to a thai ( im not saying all of them are same, for sure thats not the case, there are some extremely fine people too). But the odds and numbers are really few and from Isan??? Hmmmn...its like expecting a lottery....

[VINCENT2012]

why getting a lawyer? what for? nothing is on your name except the car and the motorbike perhaps........tell her to sign when you sell everything you paid like house, land etc...try to get as much money as you can back and after........... man just go home and relax , live that girl here and finished.

in your country ask the divorce for long time separation.

me, i would do that if she is cool....if not ......you also can burn or destroy all what you paid for before leaving....forget about the paperwork ...who cares ...at the end it is all a question of money ...for sure you will loose more than her!

[kinmaew]

For some reason Thais can "Get by" when you are not around or "Pre Farang" but as soon as a Farang is on the books, all hell breaks loose and suddenly "Mai Mee Taang" no money. What did you do before me? well do that now.

[RolandRat]

Sorry about what happened it seems you werent the Golden Goose or Gravy train she thought you were, happy for you though that you werent manipulated into being yet another mug!

Hope you find what you are looking for, it seems you may have had a lucky escape in many ways.

Edited September 13, 2014 by RolandRat

[Rob180]

The fact that you pointed out the flight was "At my expense" kind of indicates that you believe that your money is all yours to dish out as you see fit... That is not what marriage is about and perhaps your "crackpot" felt caged by you

Being a crackpot is one thing

Being a cheap charlie is another!

I take your point,perhaps I should have explained that comment more...... we're talking about someone who was completely normal for 3 months who then went completely off the rails, went into moods and silent mode every day for 10 days and was demanding to go home yesterday if it had been possible. So much so I was afraid she'd do something crazy before I had time to get her a flight at a reasonable price and was even considering moving her to a hotel until she could go because living in the same house with her was intolerable. A complete Jekyll and Hyde performance. Even explaining that booking flights at 3 or 4 days notice is extremely expensive cut no ice, she continued the same way. I eventually got one about 7 days ahead which cost about £550, £150 more than if she had waited another week. I can categorically say I was no cheap charlie, among other things I sent 15k a month to her family as well as providing for her. There was nothing she needed but didn't have, within reason. By that I mean she had everything an average person with a reasonable income has in the UK. The 'at my expense' comment relates to the above and the fact she was demanding to go home after 3 months giving no indication she was likely to come back.

To be blunt, the comments by All American about the 3 months thing are the real answer and reason behind it, I think that's pretty obvious even though it's painful for me to admit it.