Changing Sprocket Teeth on a Honda Phantom

[Thailaw]

A guy I know has a Phantom and wants to increase the top end speed and will accept the reduction in torque/acceleration that may/will result. He wants to change the driven sprocket from 41 teeth to 39 teeth. One mechanic in Pattaya has suggested removing 2 teeth from the existing rear sprocket, which I think will require cutting the existing sprocket in half, removing one tooth from each side of the cut and welding it back together. This may work, but I think he is better trying to find a 39 tooth sprocket that will fit a Phantom or finding a 39 teeth sprocket blank that can be drilled to fit a Phantom. The bike is in Pattaya but he is willing to travel to Bangkok to get a 39 teeth sprocket that will fit (or can be made to fit, without cutting) his Phantom. Can anyone provide the name and address (and maybe a phone number) of a possible source for a 39 teeth sprocket? Thanks for any leads.

[billd766]

Sorry I cannot help with that but perhaps this attachment may help your friend before he starts work.

It may be easier to get a different front sprocket say a 14 instead of a 13 and change that. It would be cheaper and certainly safer than cutting and welding the rear sprocket.

Tell him to play with the sprocket ratios on the attachment and see what works.

Motorcycle Gearing.xls

Edited September 16, 2014 by billd766

[Kwasaki]

I think the guy in Pattaya was pulling his chain.

41 to 39 will not make a lot of difference to top speed.

I would of thought that you can get most anything for a motorbike you want in Pattaya.

[RubberSideDown]

Will a Phantom pull to redline in top-gear with a 41-tooth sprocket? If it won't (and it might not) it sure won't do it with a 39-tooth sprocket.

Also, then idea of cutting and welding together a sprocket is nuts- they're way too cheap to consider doing something so fraught with potential problems.

[billd766]

I think the guy in Pattaya was pulling his chain.

41 to 39 will not make a lot of difference to top speed.

I would of thought that you can get most anything for a motorbike you want in Pattaya.

That will give a theoretical 7 kph in top speed.

I have had my Phantom over 5 years now and it is a good, solid reliable bike.

It has taken me fron Khapaeng Phet to Chiang Mai, Mae Sot, Umphang, Bangkok, (once I did KPP/BKK/KPP in one day 800km), Pattaya and it has only let me down once with a faulty spark plug.

The downside is that it is a bit big and heavy in city traffic.

The upside is that it is cheap, reliable, easy to repair almost anywhere in Thailand, fairly comfortable.

One thing it isn't, it isn't a crotch rocket with warp factor speeds. It will get you to where you want to go, but slower and more sedately.

[Thailaw]

Will a Phantom pull to redline in top-gear with a 41-tooth sprocket? If it won't (and it might not) it sure won't do it with a 39-tooth sprocket.

Also, then idea of cutting and welding together a sprocket is nuts- they're way too cheap to consider doing something so fraught with potential problems.

I agree with you 100%, the problem is not cost, it is finding someone that has a rear sprocket that will fit a Phantom with fewer teeth (or, as noted a front sprocket with more teeth that will fit in the drive housing). I also agree that the change from 41 to 39 is not big and should not make a huge difference in top end speed -- an additional 7 kph sounds about right. Adding teeth to the front drive sprocket is also an option, and the improvement in top speed for a given addition in teeth will be much more noticeable, but clearance in the drive housing may not be sufficient to allow for a bigger sprocket with more teeth. But I will suggest to him that he checks out that possibility. I think that if he can find a 39 teeth sprocket that will fit a Phantom without cutting it is a pretty cheap and easy change over, and if he doesn't like the results, he can always put the old one back. I worry that any reduction in acceleration on a already underpowered bike will cause real problems with driving in traffic, and he will not like the result. But, again, if it is a cheap and easy change, why not give it a try and see if he likes it. But, what ever he does, it should be safe and reliable, and removing teeth from the existing sprocket (at least as I think that would be done), doesn't satisfy me as to either of those. Thanks again for all replies, they are useful. But a source for either a front sprocket with more teeth or a rear sprocket with less teeth is really what he need.

[Gsxrnz]

I think the guy in Pattaya was pulling his chain.

41 to 39 will not make a lot of difference to top speed.

I would of thought that you can get most anything for a motorbike you want in Pattaya.

Great Pun Kwasaki !!

Yeah, I suppose cutting a sprocket in half is technically a Bush Mechanic type solution, but hardly recommended when a different size sprocket will be readily available.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Gsxrnz

[Nebula]

Nice to see a new thread about the Phantom. I had the chance to test ride one the other day.it had more than 70000 km. I can say I am really impressed how nice it rode. I would have bought it if I was interested in cruisers and not in an area with constant traffic.

[Kwasaki]

I think the guy in Pattaya was pulling his chain.

41 to 39 will not make a lot of difference to top speed.

I would of thought that you can get most anything for a motorbike you want in Pattaya.

That will give a theoretical 7 kph in top speed.

I have had my Phantom over 5 years now and it is a good, solid reliable bike.

It has taken me fron Khapaeng Phet to Chiang Mai, Mae Sot, Umphang, Bangkok, (once I did KPP/BKK/KPP in one day 800km), Pattaya and it has only let me down once with a faulty spark plug.

The downside is that it is a bit big and heavy in city traffic.

The upside is that it is cheap, reliable, easy to repair almost anywhere in Thailand, fairly comfortable.

One thing it isn't, it isn't a crotch rocket with warp factor speeds. It will get you to where you want to go, but slower and more sedately.

You must have a strong back buddy that riding position kills my back in a very short distance.

[Kwasaki]

Nice to see a new thread about the Phantom. I had the chance to test ride one the other day.it had more than 70000 km. I can say I am really impressed how nice it rode. I would have bought it if I was interested in cruisers and not in an area with constant traffic.

There's a couple of Phantom's in our village and they have gone to great deal of trouble to make them look something like a Harley and as someone who doesn't like either because they are not the sort of bike I prefer they look pretty cool.

[billd766]

I think the guy in Pattaya was pulling his chain.

41 to 39 will not make a lot of difference to top speed.

I would of thought that you can get most anything for a motorbike you want in Pattaya.

That will give a theoretical 7 kph in top speed.

I have had my Phantom over 5 years now and it is a good, solid reliable bike.

It has taken me fron Khapaeng Phet to Chiang Mai, Mae Sot, Umphang, Bangkok, (once I did KPP/BKK/KPP in one day 800km), Pattaya and it has only let me down once with a faulty spark plug.

The downside is that it is a bit big and heavy in city traffic.

The upside is that it is cheap, reliable, easy to repair almost anywhere in Thailand, fairly comfortable.

One thing it isn't, it isn't a crotch rocket with warp factor speeds. It will get you to where you want to go, but slower and more sedately.

You must have a strong back buddy that riding position kills my back in a very short distance.

That was about 3 years ago when I was a young spritely 67 and not the knackered 70 year old fart of today. I am about 185cm and 122kg why is why the Phantom suits me.

What I didn't say about the 1 day return trip to BKK was that for a few days afterwards I walked like a cowboy with no horse . I left home about 05.30 and was on the Vibvadhi/Rangsit road by 11.00 for an early lunch. A good day for a ride, not to hot and some cloud cover. I looked at a Yamaha Virago 535 and decided to buy it. Did the deal and paid a deposit the balance to be paid on the transfer. The owner was an Itilian diplomat and the bike had to be re-registered as well.

I rode home happily but by the time I got to Nakhon Sawan I was watching the thunder and lightning show in front of me. At Salok Bat it started to rain and by the time I stopped to put my waterproofs on it was too late.. Have you noticed that nobody slows down in the rain, let alone a thunderstorm. I stopped at the last 7/11 and squelched my way around the shop apologising for washing the floor. I finally got home just after 21.00 and my wife brought out a towel and dry clothes so I got undressed outside before she would let me in the house.

The Phantom never missed a beat rain or shine. A great bike.

[Thailaw]

I think the guy in Pattaya was pulling his chain.

41 to 39 will not make a lot of difference to top speed.

I would of thought that you can get most anything for a motorbike you want in Pattaya.

Great Pun Kwasaki !!

Yeah, I suppose cutting a sprocket in half is technically a Bush Mechanic type solution, but hardly recommended when a different size sprocket will be readily available.

"readily available"? Gee, that's great! Now, if you would be so kind to tell me where???? I am not really expecting an answer, as your post was, I expect, just a "Bush Poster" type comment -- nothing useful to say, but that doesn't stop you from saying something anyway. And the mechanic who recommended cutting out 2 teeth really is a very good mechanic, and I doubt that he would have suggested this approach if he knew of any place to get a smaller sprocket. Knowledge and information are very scarce commodities in Thailand, but I didn't realize how scarce until I read your post. Next..........

[dave_boo]

If your bike can't redline in top gear...most likely putting fewer teeth outback will give it a lower top end. Going up a few teeth in the rear may give the bike a bit more torque advantage to go a little faster. Can't really know without trying though.

[aitch52]

I've had a Phantom for 7 years, I think what you have to do is accept the bike for what it is. Very comfortable ride and happiest at cruising between 90 and 110 kph indicated, it will do that all day. Due to the riding position, speeds above 120 kph make you feel as if you are hanging on and in a leather jacket in the cooler months you can really feel the wind resistance. I guess Honda know what they are doing and specify the sprocket sizes for the best all round performance. I am not knocking your mate at all, we are blokes and we love to tinker that is what we do lol. Personally I love the Phantom, as my mate Bill says it is a good strong bike that is very reliable. I bought his Virago after he had plied me with alcohol, love it to bits and taking it on the DGR on 28th September. So the Phantom doesn't get out as often as it used to but start her up every day and go for a little bimble on it.

Cheers all, stay safe.

[aitch52]

One of the few problems I've had with the bike was when the back brake seized on, I used to commute from Phitsanulok to Phetchabun almost every weekend for a year. The brake seized on with about 25 kms to go. The engine would still not redline, it would build up in revs and at about 100kph the revs would drop off. I don't know if there is a centrifugal limiter fitted and have asked many people about this. Still no answer, but that's what it felt like, fuel cut off to the carb as the revs were approching the theoretical redline. I had to stop, force the pads off the disc carefully with a screwdriver and complete the ride using just the front brake, went to the Honda dealer in Nong Phai no spare so they stripped and cleaned the Master Cylinder which seized on again a couple of days later. New Master Cylinder ordered and fitted, funnily enough it has just started to play up again now.

[aitch52]

Did some research and Wiki came up with the answer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Phantom

References[edit]

1. ^ Stats derived from Honda Phantom Advertising Brochures, from Boon Siew Singapore Pte Ltd (www.boonsiewhonda.com.sg) and Stadium Accessories Co., Ltd., Thailand
2. ^ Source: TA200 Owner's Manual and personal experience - 39 tooth rear sprocket preferred for motorway cruising, as the Phantom's very short gearing is ideally meant for good pickup in start-stop riding, not constant top speed.

By them mentioning a 39 tooth sprocket I would imagine it should be available from Honda oor Stadium Accessories.

Edited September 19, 2014 by aitch52

[Thailaw]

Did some research and Wiki came up with the answer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Phantom

References[edit]

1. ^ Stats derived from Honda Phantom Advertising Brochures, from Boon Siew Singapore Pte Ltd (www.boonsiewhonda.com.sg) and Stadium Accessories Co., Ltd., Thailand
2. ^ Source: TA200 Owner's Manual and personal experience - 39 tooth rear sprocket preferred for motorway cruising, as the Phantom's very short gearing is ideally meant for good pickup in start-stop riding, not constant top speed.

By them mentioning a 39 tooth sprocket I would imagine it should be available from Honda oor Stadium Accessories.

Thanks, helpful post. I'll pass the information along.

[Thailaw]

Did some research and Wiki came up with the answer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Phantom

References[edit]

1. ^ Stats derived from Honda Phantom Advertising Brochures, from Boon Siew Singapore Pte Ltd (www.boonsiewhonda.com.sg) and Stadium Accessories Co., Ltd., Thailand
2. ^ Source: TA200 Owner's Manual and personal experience - 39 tooth rear sprocket preferred for motorway cruising, as the Phantom's very short gearing is ideally meant for good pickup in start-stop riding, not constant top speed.

By them mentioning a 39 tooth sprocket I would imagine it should be available from Honda oor Stadium Accessories.

Thanks, helpful post. I'll pass the information along.

The owner of the Phantom spoke to Rudy at Mai Thai on Soi Buakhao in Pattaya this morning who said that he can provide the 39 teeth sprocket for a Phantom. He will order it from a supplier in Bangkok, takes about 4 days. So, it looks like a source close to home has been found. Thanks to all that provided helpful responses to my query.

[aitch52]

Here's a link to the Honda Shadow TA 200 Australian version Owners Manual http://www.hondampe.com.au/docs/owning_a_honda/owners_manuals/motorcycles/SHADOW-TA200.pdf more or less identical to the Phantom.

[JohnPark]

X-speed on 3rd Road could probably order something in cheaper.

[Thailaw]

X-speed on 3rd Road could probably order something in cheaper.

Thanks.

[revgreen]

I too love my Phantom. Bought it secondhand with 4k km and it's been a dream so far. Getting around the city can be a bit of a hassle when traffic is heavy, but it's not too bad.

I was torn between it and a CBR but I think the Phantom is going to be quite a bit more comfortable for longer rides (which I've yet to take).

[billd766]

Did some research and Wiki came up with the answer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Phantom

References[edit]

1. ^ Stats derived from Honda Phantom Advertising Brochures, from Boon Siew Singapore Pte Ltd (www.boonsiewhonda.com.sg) and Stadium Accessories Co., Ltd., Thailand
2. ^ Source: TA200 Owner's Manual and personal experience - 39 tooth rear sprocket preferred for motorway cruising, as the Phantom's very short gearing is ideally meant for good pickup in start-stop riding, not constant top speed.

By them mentioning a 39 tooth sprocket I would imagine it should be available from Honda oor Stadium Accessories.

Thanks, helpful post. I'll pass the information along.

The owner of the Phantom spoke to Rudy at Mai Thai on Soi Buakhao in Pattaya this morning who said that he can provide the 39 teeth sprocket for a Phantom. He will order it from a supplier in Bangkok, takes about 4 days. So, it looks like a source close to home has been found. Thanks to all that provided helpful responses to my query.

Can your friend get a price for the 39 tooth rear sprocket and also a 14 tooth front sprocket and somehow let me know?

My Phantom has 47,6xx km up and I need to replace then and the chain soon.

[billd766]

There are a few Phantoms coming for sale but the owners seem to want silly prices in excess of 60k baht for a 6 year old out of production old technology bike where less than 50k may secure a buyer, >60k won't.

[guzzi850m2]

I always wondered why Honda stopped making it or at least made a replacement model?

It's a 150cc engine I think? Not all wants a CBR150 but prefer the chopper riding style which is comfortable up to 110-120 km/h max.

This is a okay speed if you wants to take in the scenery.

[revgreen]

I always wondered why Honda stopped making it or at least made a replacement model?

It's a 150cc engine I think? Not all wants a CBR150 but prefer the chopper riding style which is comfortable up to 110-120 km/h max.

This is a okay speed if you wants to take in the scenery.

200 cc, but you're correct about top speed

[Thailaw]

Did some research and Wiki came up with the answer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Phantom

References[edit]

1. ^ Stats derived from Honda Phantom Advertising Brochures, from Boon Siew Singapore Pte Ltd (www.boonsiewhonda.com.sg) and Stadium Accessories Co., Ltd., Thailand
2. ^ Source: TA200 Owner's Manual and personal experience - 39 tooth rear sprocket preferred for motorway cruising, as the Phantom's very short gearing is ideally meant for good pickup in start-stop riding, not constant top speed.

By them mentioning a 39 tooth sprocket I would imagine it should be available from Honda oor Stadium Accessories.

Thanks, helpful post. I'll pass the information along.

The owner of the Phantom spoke to Rudy at Mai Thai on Soi Buakhao in Pattaya this morning who said that he can provide the 39 teeth sprocket for a Phantom. He will order it from a supplier in Bangkok, takes about 4 days. So, it looks like a source close to home has been found. Thanks to all that provided helpful responses to my query.

Can your friend get a price for the 39 tooth rear sprocket and also a 14 tooth front sprocket and somehow let me know?

My Phantom has 47,6xx km up and I need to replace then and the chain soon.

Will do. I also mentioned the 14 teeth front sprocket to him as an alternative, but he told me that his mechanic said that it won't fit inside the drive housing. I think that 39t rear and 13t drive (OEM std.) are the best/only option to improve cruising performance. But you can independently check on the ability to fit the bigger front sprocket on the Phantom.

[billd766]

@Thailaw #27

Thanks for that.

I hate the "you have posted too many quotes" thing.

[aitch52]

Think the 39 tooth sprocket is perfect for where you live Bill, I shall stick with 41 around here as I would miss the acceleration too much in this traffic.

[guzzi850m2]

OP tell your friend to get a new mechanic as cutting the sprocket in half in order to achieve the wanted amount of teeth is just plain crazy/dangerous.

If the welded sprocket fails, the rear wheel can easily lock and a crash is very likely, especially at higher speeds, and/or you can get hit from behind as nobody expect you suddenly locks up the rear wheel.

Furthermore a sprocket from a factory forms a perfect circle but not so if cut in half and welded together again which means getting the correct slack on the chain is impossible.

One of the most stupid things I ever heard about on bike forum but since we are here in Thailand not really surprising.