Bachelor's Degree graduates in Thailand face a bleak future for their careers

[jamesbbkk]

As robotics and further automation take more and more jobs over the next few generations, what are these people going to do? At some point there are just not going to be enough decent jobs for people to make a good living.

[jamesbbkk]

After all these years of immense human progress because of tools, how could better tools be lamentable?

[attrayant]

Because it blurs the line between the labor class and the upper echelons. That used to be a nice, bold line that couldn't be stepped over. If you were born into a family of laborers, well that's where you stayed. It now seems inconceivable that people who, in recent decades, could be assigned nothing more complex than digging a ditch or operating a photocopier are now expected to repair complex machinery and operate workflow automation software.

I've said this before in the education forum: my school (which bills itself as a technology college) still processes all of its grades and executive reports manually. Yes we have an outdated grading system that site on a Windows XP client, but we have to manually print, then manually transfer grades over onto other papers, and then take those results and manually transfer them again to generate some simple bar charts. I've showed them how excel with a few macros can do everything in ten seconds that a human teacher does in two hours, but the administration is having none of it.

[deleted three more paragraphs of ranting about my school and its antiquated ways] - never mind.

[jamesbbkk]

There will always be those left behind. It has never been easier to pull oneself forward and up though. Net positive.

[thailiketoo]

I really wish people would reconsider using the ability to add numbers without a calculator as a proof of how educated someone is. These little things have very little bearing on anything young people will need to do in THEIR world. It is akin to criticising people for not knowing Shakespeare or for not having read Dante or something. Absolutely meaningless.

Critical thinking and the ability to seek and assimilate new information? That is useful. Ability to question authority when necessary? Understanding of ethics? Useful. Perseverance in work? Useful. Strong desire to complete work at a very high level (chasing perfection)? Useful. Strong proficiency in native tongue? Useful. Strong proficiency in secondary tongue like English to gain perspective on the world and acquire some of the vast knowledge that does not exist in Thai language? Useful. Ability to think of novel (better) ways to accomplish tasks (ie. being inventive)? Useful. Ability to think of and ask new questions and reframe problems? Useful.

It is a different world now. Nobody needs to add up numbers in their heads.

Huh?

As long as there are numbers and money, the world is the same.

Adding up numbers in your head has been a skill admired since before Roman times.

Showing that you can do it does not mean that you are deficient in other, more marketable skills.

I guarantee that some one that can do it, is smarter and more versatile than some one that can't and reaches for that calculator.

Tesco could have used some accounting people who could count. Seems they misplaced 250 million pounds. I wonder if they had any Thai accountants working at the main office.

My local Thai managed Tesco Lotus loses some things on occasion and puts stock in the wrong places and mis prices some things but no where near 250 million pounds worth.

Must be education and have something to do with some schools not being able to teach people to count. I wonder where they get their accounting officers?

Laurie McIlwee was the CFO who lost the cash. (I can't find where he went to school.) Maybe in Thailand but Mcllwee seems like a odd Thai surname. He also got a £970,800 golden goodbye. Seems like a lot for a guy who misplaced £250,000,000.

To sum it up I think Chief Financial Officers should be able to count even though he may have other marketable skills. Counting I think should be first for an accountant.

As an aside I've never met a Thai CFO who lost £250,000,000.

[PaullyW]

I really wish people would reconsider using the ability to add numbers without a calculator as a proof of how educated someone is. These little things have very little bearing on anything young people will need to do in THEIR world. It is akin to criticising people for not knowing Shakespeare or for not having read Dante or something. Absolutely meaningless.

Critical thinking and the ability to seek and assimilate new information? That is useful. Ability to question authority when necessary? Understanding of ethics? Useful. Perseverance in work? Useful. Strong desire to complete work at a very high level (chasing perfection)? Useful. Strong proficiency in native tongue? Useful. Strong proficiency in secondary tongue like English to gain perspective on the world and acquire some of the vast knowledge that does not exist in Thai language? Useful. Ability to think of novel (better) ways to accomplish tasks (ie. being inventive)? Useful. Ability to think of and ask new questions and reframe problems? Useful.

It is a different world now. Nobody needs to add up numbers in their heads.

Huh?

As long as there are numbers and money, the world is the same.

Adding up numbers in your head has been a skill admired since before Roman times.

Showing that you can do it does not mean that you are deficient in other, more marketable skills.

I guarantee that some one that can do it, is smarter and more versatile than some one that can't and reaches for that calculator.

Umm, what?

I know plenty of people here in Thailand who cannot add up large numbers in their heads and who cannot do other more complex mathematics in their heads who are nevertheless extremely rich and successful (myself included, if you don't mind). I know a Thai guy whose family owns the company that manages very high end office properties around Bangkok, and he could not when we were out at a big event a few months ago. His family is one of the richest 50 families in Thailand just as an example.

It's really irrelevant what people admired since before Roman times. Success in the current world has very little to do with the ability to do trained "tricks" like what you guys are talking about. I hope you are not educators, and I doubt most of you are.

[trogers]

I really wish people would reconsider using the ability to add numbers without a calculator as a proof of how educated someone is. These little things have very little bearing on anything young people will need to do in THEIR world. It is akin to criticising people for not knowing Shakespeare or for not having read Dante or something. Absolutely meaningless.

Critical thinking and the ability to seek and assimilate new information? That is useful. Ability to question authority when necessary? Understanding of ethics? Useful. Perseverance in work? Useful. Strong desire to complete work at a very high level (chasing perfection)? Useful. Strong proficiency in native tongue? Useful. Strong proficiency in secondary tongue like English to gain perspective on the world and acquire some of the vast knowledge that does not exist in Thai language? Useful. Ability to think of novel (better) ways to accomplish tasks (ie. being inventive)? Useful. Ability to think of and ask new questions and reframe problems? Useful.

It is a different world now. Nobody needs to add up numbers in their heads.

Huh?

As long as there are numbers and money, the world is the same.

Adding up numbers in your head has been a skill admired since before Roman times.

Showing that you can do it does not mean that you are deficient in other, more marketable skills.

I guarantee that some one that can do it, is smarter and more versatile than some one that can't and reaches for that calculator.

Umm, what?

I know plenty of people here in Thailand who cannot add up large numbers in their heads and who cannot do other more complex mathematics in their heads who are nevertheless extremely rich and successful (myself included, if you don't mind). I know a Thai guy whose family owns the company that manages very high end office properties around Bangkok, and he could not when we were out at a big event a few months ago. His family is one of the richest 50 families in Thailand just as an example.

It's really irrelevant what people admired since before Roman times. Success in the current world has very little to do with the ability to do trained "tricks" like what you guys are talking about. I hope you are not educators, and I doubt most of you are.

Alfred Doolittle? With a little bit of luck...

[thaibeachlovers]

I really wish people would reconsider using the ability to add numbers without a calculator as a proof of how educated someone is. These little things have very little bearing on anything young people will need to do in THEIR world. It is akin to criticising people for not knowing Shakespeare or for not having read Dante or something. Absolutely meaningless.

Critical thinking and the ability to seek and assimilate new information? That is useful. Ability to question authority when necessary? Understanding of ethics? Useful. Perseverance in work? Useful. Strong desire to complete work at a very high level (chasing perfection)? Useful. Strong proficiency in native tongue? Useful. Strong proficiency in secondary tongue like English to gain perspective on the world and acquire some of the vast knowledge that does not exist in Thai language? Useful. Ability to think of novel (better) ways to accomplish tasks (ie. being inventive)? Useful. Ability to think of and ask new questions and reframe problems? Useful.

It is a different world now. Nobody needs to add up numbers in their heads.

Huh?

As long as there are numbers and money, the world is the same.

Adding up numbers in your head has been a skill admired since before Roman times.

Showing that you can do it does not mean that you are deficient in other, more marketable skills.

I guarantee that some one that can do it, is smarter and more versatile than some one that can't and reaches for that calculator.

Umm, what?

I know plenty of people here in Thailand who cannot add up large numbers in their heads and who cannot do other more complex mathematics in their heads who are nevertheless extremely rich and successful (myself included, if you don't mind). I know a Thai guy whose family owns the company that manages very high end office properties around Bangkok, and he could not when we were out at a big event a few months ago. His family is one of the richest 50 families in Thailand just as an example.

It's really irrelevant what people admired since before Roman times. Success in the current world has very little to do with the ability to do trained "tricks" like what you guys are talking about. I hope you are not educators, and I doubt most of you are.

please excuse lack of capitals- i am typing with one finger due to fractured hand.

as with most rich people, it's who you know that counts, not ability. the world is full of very clever people that will never be rich, and a few idiots that are. that is why the school rich people send their children to is so important. it also helps if you start with a lot of money from family.

anyway, that Thai guy can no doubt afford to employ people that can add up large numbers in their heads and who can... do other more complex mathematics in their heads. why would he need to do so himself?

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed. And Washington isn't even a "capitol" (sic) of anything. It's a state.

To stay on topic: One would guess that spending 4 years of your life in an educational institution would yield you extensive knowledge of your choice of major. Not in Thailand. No one ever fails, crap teachers have a safe job for life, students are "customers" and need to be served with degrees. Those kids ain't that stupid, and they are aware that they can buy a degree with a minimum of effort. No need to grow up, accept responsibility or face your shortcomings.

Thailand will remain a hub of low-end manufacturing, cheap service jobs, prostitution and riff raff tourism for decades to come.

I just thought I'd list a couple of the riff raff jobs; there are thousands more if one looks. Do you think that BMW and Mercedes hires dumb kids who paid for degrees. Boy, if you do you are about as sharp as a cue ball.

BMW Manufacturing. BMW Plant Rayong

"One of the most efficient and flexible assembly plants."

Key competitive advantage to the BMW success in Thailand.

At both our manufacturing facility in Rayong and our offices in Bangkok, we seek responsible candidates who can join our team highly motivated, diligent, self-assured, experienced, and able to communicate effectively at all levels. Do you fit this mold? If so, please do not hesitate to apply.

Mercedes-Benz has approved the building of an engine plant in Thailand, the first manufacturing facility the German luxury carmaker has had in the country in its 106-year presence.

Mercedes-Benz (Thailand) Limited, an automotive company operated under the umbrella of Daimler AG, the world's largest manufacturer of Mercedes-Benz vehicles, was founded on January 14, 1998. Mercedes-Benz Thailand handles the importation, assembly, and distribution of passenger cars and commercial vehicles as well as provides full maintenance and after-sales services to its clientele. We are currently looking for qualified candidates to join the first class team according to the following position

You think everyone on a car manufacturing line is a graduate engineer?

[thailiketoo]

I just thought I'd list a couple of the riff raff jobs; there are thousands more if one looks. Do you think that BMW and Mercedes hires dumb kids who paid for degrees. Boy, if you do you are about as sharp as a cue ball.

BMW Manufacturing. BMW Plant Rayong

"One of the most efficient and flexible assembly plants."

Key competitive advantage to the BMW success in Thailand.

At both our manufacturing facility in Rayong and our offices in Bangkok, we seek responsible candidates who can join our team highly motivated, diligent, self-assured, experienced, and able to communicate effectively at all levels. Do you fit this mold? If so, please do not hesitate to apply.

Mercedes-Benz has approved the building of an engine plant in Thailand, the first manufacturing facility the German luxury carmaker has had in the country in its 106-year presence.

Mercedes-Benz (Thailand) Limited, an automotive company operated under the umbrella of Daimler AG, the world's largest manufacturer of Mercedes-Benz vehicles, was founded on January 14, 1998. Mercedes-Benz Thailand handles the importation, assembly, and distribution of passenger cars and commercial vehicles as well as provides full maintenance and after-sales services to its clientele. We are currently looking for qualified candidates to join the first class team according to the following position

You think everyone on a car manufacturing line is a graduate engineer?

No, of course not but many are. Ford sources 80% of it's needs in Thailand creating thousands of jobs and hundreds of companies to manufacture parts for them to assemble. Each little company may only make a washer or nut but they need machines to do that. When they have the machine and factory space and contract from Ford they go out looking for more business to keep the machine working 24/7 and the process creates jobs for engineers and sales people and admin people. One of the interesting areas of the auto business in Thailand is not the car assembly plants themselves but the thousands of other jobs and businesses that those factories create.

Auto-parts exports by local parts makers and auto manufacturers from Thailand amounted to more than Bt16 billion in January, growing by 6 per cent compared to the corresponding period last year. This is made up of Bt12.5 billion worth of components, Bt2.2 billion worth of engines, Bt1.2 billion worth of spare parts, Bt100 million worth of moulds and jigs, plus another Bt65 billion for other parts.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Tough-road-lies-ahead-for-auto-parts-makers-30203382.html

When I was with the American Army in Thailand when we left we donated all of our used equipment to technical colleges for them to use in study and training of graduates to work on and design machinery of all kinds. Just another example of the many areas of cooperation between the American military and Thailand's educational institutions at the time.

[thaibeachlovers]

As robotics and further automation take more and more jobs over the next few generations, what are these people going to do? At some point there are just not going to be enough decent jobs for people to make a good living.

please excuse lack of capitals- i am typing with one finger due to fractured hand.

i think you've missed the boat there. in the west, there has long been a lack of jobs compared to population, which explains the high unemployment rate. unfortunately the west subsidises people to have children, so more children than can ever be employed continue to be born.

it's time to encourage people not to have children, but i doubt that will ever happen in our overly pc world.

kudos to Thailand though- they seem to be having small families, and i read the population was falling.

don't worry about a lack of people paying taxes though- there are millions of educated people in the world that would love to come and work in the west.

[SPB65]

Far too many lightweight vocational "degrees" consisting of reading a few lightweight textbooks and not much else. Most Thais with degrees seem far from educated to me.

Even when I taught university students and business classes they were very few who I felt were switched on. I'm not surprised they can't command a decent salary.

[belg]

they can always go work in the hot spots of thailand for a salary 10x of that of the so called on paper high educated people

[tubby johnson]

I just thought I'd list a couple of the riff raff jobs; there are thousands more if one looks. Do you think that BMW and Mercedes hires dumb kids who paid for degrees. Boy, if you do you are about as sharp as a cue ball.

BMW Manufacturing. BMW Plant Rayong

"One of the most efficient and flexible assembly plants."

Key competitive advantage to the BMW success in Thailand.

At both our manufacturing facility in Rayong and our offices in Bangkok, we seek responsible candidates who can join our team highly motivated, diligent, self-assured, experienced, and able to communicate effectively at all levels. Do you fit this mold? If so, please do not hesitate to apply.

Mercedes-Benz has approved the building of an engine plant in Thailand, the first manufacturing facility the German luxury carmaker has had in the country in its 106-year presence.

Mercedes-Benz (Thailand) Limited, an automotive company operated under the umbrella of Daimler AG, the world's largest manufacturer of Mercedes-Benz vehicles, was founded on January 14, 1998. Mercedes-Benz Thailand handles the importation, assembly, and distribution of passenger cars and commercial vehicles as well as provides full maintenance and after-sales services to its clientele. We are currently looking for qualified candidates to join the first class team according to the following position

You think everyone on a car manufacturing line is a graduate engineer?

No, of course not but many are. Ford sources 80% of it's needs in Thailand creating thousands of jobs and hundreds of companies to manufacture parts for them to assemble. Each little company may only make a washer or nut but they need machines to do that. When they have the machine and factory space and contract from Ford they go out looking for more business to keep the machine working 24/7 and the process creates jobs for engineers and sales people and admin people. One of the interesting areas of the auto business in Thailand is not the car assembly plants themselves but the thousands of other jobs and businesses that those factories create.

Auto-parts exports by local parts makers and auto manufacturers from Thailand amounted to more than Bt16 billion in January, growing by 6 per cent compared to the corresponding period last year. This is made up of Bt12.5 billion worth of components, Bt2.2 billion worth of engines, Bt1.2 billion worth of spare parts, Bt100 million worth of moulds and jigs, plus another Bt65 billion for other parts.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Tough-road-lies-ahead-for-auto-parts-makers-30203382.html

When I was with the American Army in Thailand when we left we donated all of our used equipment to technical colleges for them to use in study and training of graduates to work on and design machinery of all kinds. Just another example of the many areas of cooperation between the American military and Thailand's educational institutions at the time.

Those are lazy cut-and-paste PR quotes you've taken off the websites of Ford, Mercedes and BMW.

Like I said earlier, low-cost manufacturing (such as low-value-added car assembly) will always have a future here, as long as most of the thinking is done by the foreign owners and head office, the serious jobs are taken by Thais educated abroad, and robots and machines do most of the hard work. If the lucky few who've survived Thailand's mediocre education system can follow orders and keep their wage demands reasonable, then they'll get hired to assemble the cars and carry out equipment maintenance.

[thailiketoo]

Those are lazy cut-and-paste PR quotes you've taken off the websites of Ford, Mercedes and BMW.

Like I said earlier, low-cost manufacturing (such as low-value-added car assembly) will always have a future here, as long as most of the thinking is done by the foreign owners and head office, the serious jobs are taken by Thais educated abroad, and robots and machines do most of the hard work. If the lucky few who've survived Thailand's mediocre education system can follow orders and keep their wage demands reasonable, then they'll get hired to assemble the cars and carry out equipment maintenance.

Ok so you don't like it when I use quotes to back up my information and rip your arguments to shreds. Sorry. I'll try and respond more like you. OK? Your post is absolute nonsense and not based in fact and without merit of any kind.

The reason Detroit was the success it was in the 1950's (highest per capita income in the USA) is the same reason Rayong is such a success today. 80% of the car is made and fabricated in Thailand in Thai factories by Thai labor and management.....then.....the parts are sold to Ford and every other auto manufacturer in the world where robots put them together.

So you want to talk robots? Cool. Two teams of university engineering students from Thailand won prestigious prizes at the World Challenge, A.N.T.Z. Robotics Competition held on 24 January 2010 in Mumbai, India. The team from King Mongkut’s University of Technology North Bangkok “IRAP” won first place in Type ‘A’ category, while the team from Singburi Technical College won second place of the Type ‘B’ category.

[tubby johnson]

Those are lazy cut-and-paste PR quotes you've taken off the websites of Ford, Mercedes and BMW.

Like I said earlier, low-cost manufacturing (such as low-value-added car assembly) will always have a future here, as long as most of the thinking is done by the foreign owners and head office, the serious jobs are taken by Thais educated abroad, and robots and machines do most of the hard work. If the lucky few who've survived Thailand's mediocre education system can follow orders and keep their wage demands reasonable, then they'll get hired to assemble the cars and carry out equipment maintenance.

Ok so you don't like it when I use quotes to back up my information and rip your arguments to shreds. Sorry. I'll try and respond more like you. OK? Your post is absolute nonsense and not based in fact and without merit of any kind.

The reason Detroit was the success it was in the 1950's (highest per capita income in the USA) is the same reason Rayong is such a success today. 80% of the car is made and fabricated in Thailand in Thai factories by Thai labor and management.....then.....the parts are sold to Ford and every other auto manufacturer in the world where robots put them together.

So you want to talk robots? Cool. Two teams of university engineering students from Thailand won prestigious prizes at the World Challenge, A.N.T.Z. Robotics Competition held on 24 January 2010 in Mumbai, India. The team from King Mongkut’s University of Technology North Bangkok “IRAP” won first place in Type ‘A’ category, while the team from Singburi Technical College won second place of the Type ‘B’ category.

It's pathetic and quite ridiculous that you're resorting to cherry picking convenient data from robot football contests held in the not-so-recent past. And quoting unsubstantiated statistics out of thin air, such as your 80%, means that you have no understanding of the automotive design and manufacturing processes. Leave it to the professionals to discuss further.

[thailiketoo]

Those are lazy cut-and-paste PR quotes you've taken off the websites of Ford, Mercedes and BMW.

Like I said earlier, low-cost manufacturing (such as low-value-added car assembly) will always have a future here, as long as most of the thinking is done by the foreign owners and head office, the serious jobs are taken by Thais educated abroad, and robots and machines do most of the hard work. If the lucky few who've survived Thailand's mediocre education system can follow orders and keep their wage demands reasonable, then they'll get hired to assemble the cars and carry out equipment maintenance.

Ok so you don't like it when I use quotes to back up my information and rip your arguments to shreds. Sorry. I'll try and respond more like you. OK? Your post is absolute nonsense and not based in fact and without merit of any kind.

The reason Detroit was the success it was in the 1950's (highest per capita income in the USA) is the same reason Rayong is such a success today. 80% of the car is made and fabricated in Thailand in Thai factories by Thai labor and management.....then.....the parts are sold to Ford and every other auto manufacturer in the world where robots put them together.

So you want to talk robots? Cool. Two teams of university engineering students from Thailand won prestigious prizes at the World Challenge, A.N.T.Z. Robotics Competition held on 24 January 2010 in Mumbai, India. The team from King Mongkut’s University of Technology North Bangkok “IRAP” won first place in Type ‘A’ category, while the team from Singburi Technical College won second place of the Type ‘B’ category.

It's pathetic and quite ridiculous that you're resorting to cherry picking convenient data from robot football contests held in the not-so-recent past. And quoting unsubstantiated statistics out of thin air, such as your 80%, means that you have no understanding of the automotive design and manufacturing processes. Leave it to the professionals to discuss further.

To use your own words, it's pathetic and quite ridiculous that you back up your hatred of things Thai by your own uneducated guesses as to what is happening in Thai industry and education.

"The new Ford facility has the potential to support up to 11,000 new jobs – including 2,200 direct jobs with Ford and 8,800 indirect jobs through its supplier and dealer networks – with the first 1,600 already on-site, preparing for the launch of production.

Economic contributions also include the purchase of up to US$800 million (THB 25 billion) worth of components locally through Thailand’s automotive manufacturing supplier network."

THB14 billion - Ford Motor Company

You a professional? Professional what? PS I worked in the Glass house how about you?

[tubby johnson]

People who live in glass houses .... etc ... It's notable that you claimed that you "worked" in a Glass house. Not working there anymore, as they obviously grew tired of your empty bluster and angry rants. Like the rest of us here.

Another lazy cut-and-paste job. Nothing of interest that you added, for example the quality of jobs created by Ford. We can rest safely in the knowledge that the crucial design and specifications stages have been performed overseas by better-educated professionals. Masses of local graduates of Thai universities can follow instructions and perform the cheaper assembly line jobs.

[thailiketoo]

People who live in glass houses .... etc ... It's notable that you claimed that you "worked" in a Glass house. Not working there anymore, as they obviously grew tired of your empty bluster and angry rants. Like the rest of us here.

Another lazy cut-and-paste job. Nothing of interest that you added, for example the quality of jobs created by Ford. We can rest safely in the knowledge that the crucial design and specifications stages have been performed overseas by better-educated professionals. Masses of local graduates of Thai universities can follow instructions and perform the cheaper assembly line jobs.

If you knew anything about the auto business you would know what the, "glass house" is.

BTW the rest of your post is a flame and without answering your previous boast that you were a professional. You wrote, " Leave it to the professionals to discuss further." So I'll ask again. A professional what? A professional flamer? Masses of Thai graduates are performing executive jobs at Hino, Honda, Lexus, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, Hyundai, SsangYong, Proton, Tata, Dongfeng, Chery, Chevrolet, Ford, Chevrolet, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Volvo, Saab, MG Motor and Thai Rung.

Instead of blathering Thai hate speech try reading http://www.thaiauto.or.th/2012/backoffice/file_upload/research/11125561430391.pdf and find out what is happening in the Thai Auto industry.

[tubby johnson]

People who live in glass houses .... etc ... It's notable that you claimed that you "worked" in a Glass house. Not working there anymore, as they obviously grew tired of your empty bluster and angry rants. Like the rest of us here.

Another lazy cut-and-paste job. Nothing of interest that you added, for example the quality of jobs created by Ford. We can rest safely in the knowledge that the crucial design and specifications stages have been performed overseas by better-educated professionals. Masses of local graduates of Thai universities can follow instructions and perform the cheaper assembly line jobs.

If you knew anything about the auto business you would know what the, "glass house" is.

BTW the rest of your post is a flame and without answering your previous boast that you were a professional. You wrote, " Leave it to the professionals to discuss further." So I'll ask again. A professional what? A professional flamer? Masses of Thai graduates are performing executive jobs at Hino, Honda, Lexus, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, Hyundai, SsangYong, Proton, Tata, Dongfeng, Chery, Chevrolet, Ford, Chevrolet, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Volvo, Saab, MG Motor and Thai Rung.

Instead of blathering Thai hate speech try reading http://www.thaiauto.or.th/2012/backoffice/file_upload/research/11125561430391.pdf and find out what is happening in the Thai Auto industry.

Sarcasm fail. People who live in glass houses ......

Once again, you've failed to address any of the issues I've raised and you resort to desperately googling various internet links in a scattergun approach to make your point. Unprofessional conduct got you thrown out of the Glass House, and now you're here on this thread digging a hole for yourself. Stop digging.

[thailiketoo]

People who live in glass houses .... etc ... It's notable that you claimed that you "worked" in a Glass house. Not working there anymore, as they obviously grew tired of your empty bluster and angry rants. Like the rest of us here.

Another lazy cut-and-paste job. Nothing of interest that you added, for example the quality of jobs created by Ford. We can rest safely in the knowledge that the crucial design and specifications stages have been performed overseas by better-educated professionals. Masses of local graduates of Thai universities can follow instructions and perform the cheaper assembly line jobs.

If you knew anything about the auto business you would know what the, "glass house" is.

BTW the rest of your post is a flame and without answering your previous boast that you were a professional. You wrote, " Leave it to the professionals to discuss further." So I'll ask again. A professional what? A professional flamer? Masses of Thai graduates are performing executive jobs at Hino, Honda, Lexus, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, Hyundai, SsangYong, Proton, Tata, Dongfeng, Chery, Chevrolet, Ford, Chevrolet, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Volvo, Saab, MG Motor and Thai Rung.

Instead of blathering Thai hate speech try reading http://www.thaiauto.or.th/2012/backoffice/file_upload/research/11125561430391.pdf and find out what is happening in the Thai Auto industry.

Sarcasm fail. People who live in glass houses ......

Once again, you've failed to address any of the issues I've raised and you resort to desperately googling various internet links in a scattergun approach to make your point. Unprofessional conduct got you thrown out of the Glass House, and now you're here on this thread digging a hole for yourself. Stop digging.

Well I'll bite what factual issues have you raised? None. What unprofessional conduct? Insulting other posters? So, I'll ask again. What are you a professional of? You wrote, "Leave it to the professionals to discuss further." All you can do is mock. Try to have a civil discussion. I was attempting to teach you something about the automobile business in Thailand but apparently you don't want to know and would rather stay in your small negative world. So be it. Bickering finished on my side.

[tubby johnson]

People who live in glass houses .... etc ... It's notable that you claimed that you "worked" in a Glass house. Not working there anymore, as they obviously grew tired of your empty bluster and angry rants. Like the rest of us here.

Another lazy cut-and-paste job. Nothing of interest that you added, for example the quality of jobs created by Ford. We can rest safely in the knowledge that the crucial design and specifications stages have been performed overseas by better-educated professionals. Masses of local graduates of Thai universities can follow instructions and perform the cheaper assembly line jobs.

If you knew anything about the auto business you would know what the, "glass house" is.

BTW the rest of your post is a flame and without answering your previous boast that you were a professional. You wrote, " Leave it to the professionals to discuss further." So I'll ask again. A professional what? A professional flamer? Masses of Thai graduates are performing executive jobs at Hino, Honda, Lexus, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, Hyundai, SsangYong, Proton, Tata, Dongfeng, Chery, Chevrolet, Ford, Chevrolet, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Volvo, Saab, MG Motor and Thai Rung.

Instead of blathering Thai hate speech try reading http://www.thaiauto.or.th/2012/backoffice/file_upload/research/11125561430391.pdf and find out what is happening in the Thai Auto industry.

Sarcasm fail. People who live in glass houses ......

Once again, you've failed to address any of the issues I've raised and you resort to desperately googling various internet links in a scattergun approach to make your point. Unprofessional conduct got you thrown out of the Glass House, and now you're here on this thread digging a hole for yourself. Stop digging.

Well I'll bite what factual issues have you raised? None. What unprofessional conduct? Insulting other posters? So, I'll ask again. What are you a professional of? You wrote, "Leave it to the professionals to discuss further." All you can do is mock. Try to have a civil discussion. I was attempting to teach you something about the automobile business in Thailand but apparently you don't want to know and would rather stay in your small negative world. So be it. Bickering finished on my side.

You have nothing to teach us professionals about the automobile industry. Any trained monkey can rain a deluge of internet links on his enemies, but it's all empty posturing and pathetic bluster signifying nothing. It adds very little to the discussion about the dire state of Thailand's schools and universities.

[thailiketoo]

I wonder if there is anyone here that can confirm that Mahidol University passes all students in Engineering and Medicine and Health. Are there any education professionals that can confirm the rumors that some people have tried to start in this thread.

I agree that there are too many BA degrees being pumped out in Thailand and other places as opposed to plumbers and electricians. But I do wonder at the Engineers who build buildings and the doctors who do heart and brain surgery; are they really passed without regard for knowledge?

[tubby johnson]

Someone has finally woken up and seen the light on this thread.

Yes, this practice has been going on for as long as we remember in Thai universities. Plenty of dodgy degrees are the fruits of this "no fail, buy a degree" policy.

[AYJAYDEE]

Someone has finally woken up and seen the light on this thread.

Yes, this practice has been going on for as long as we remember in Thai universities. Plenty of dodgy degrees are the fruits of this "no fail, buy a degree" policy.

i've worked with a number of thai trained engineers that were every bit as good as north american grads.

[Soutpeel]

Someone has finally woken up and seen the light on this thread.

Yes, this practice has been going on for as long as we remember in Thai universities. Plenty of dodgy degrees are the fruits of this "no fail, buy a degree" policy.

i've worked with a number of thai trained engineers that were every bit as good as north american grads.

I currently work with Thai trained engineers and they are as good as and some even better than some of US and UK grads I have had the misfortune to work with over the years, Got one particular lad working with me now, who I am mentoring, who could hold his own anywhere in the world.

[AYJAYDEE]

Someone has finally woken up and seen the light on this thread.

Yes, this practice has been going on for as long as we remember in Thai universities. Plenty of dodgy degrees are the fruits of this "no fail, buy a degree" policy.

i've worked with a number of thai trained engineers that were every bit as good as north american grads.

I currently work with Thai trained engineers and they are as good as and some even better than some of US and UK grads I have had the misfortune to work with over the years, Got one particular lad working with me now, who I am mentoring, who could hold his own anywhere in the world.

these guys never explain how a B. Eng. grad from thailand manages to get in and graduate from western masters and phd programs! lol

[thailiketoo]

Someone has finally woken up and seen the light on this thread.

Yes, this practice has been going on for as long as we remember in Thai universities. Plenty of dodgy degrees are the fruits of this "no fail, buy a degree" policy.

I wonder if there is anyone here that can confirm that Mahidol University passes all students in Engineering and Medicine and Health. Are there any education professionals that can confirm the rumors that some people have tried to start in this thread?

[PaullyW]

I think there are a few things being discussed here and some people are perhaps mixing them up. Have at it boys!

Ability to learn

Thais are not generally not "dumb" or any less capable of learning than any other group of humans. Of this, I am quite confident. It is Nurture that is the problem, not Nature.

Education

hais are generally very poorly educated by certain western standards. I think most would agree that this is generally true. But, some might say that, like the North Koreans, perhaps Thais are generally perfectly "educated" or "prepared" for Thai society which is does not value education (aside from the Thai-Chinese) and seems to value far more a person's social status (who their family is, who they know, what they look like, etc.). Thais are very impressively socialized (more than educated) to fit neatly into their roles of servitude and the society largely functions.

However, having a more useful discussion regarding education would require defining the required attributes for what we would consider educated. Does having learned the trained tricks of adding numbers in one's head proof of having been properly educated? And, what is properly educated? Is it being educated to a degree that allows a person to dominate his environment (Thailand) or does it require a person being generally as knowledgeable in a certain field as his peers anywhere else in the world? I would submit that in general Thais would not be able to compete with the more advanced economies, but does this matter to them? After all, Thailand does seem to generally function (albeit at standards far lower than many of us are used to from our old or other countries). And, sure there are a handful of very well educated (even by western standards or East Asian standards) Thais, but most would agree that they are generally in the minority.

Financial Success

Financial success can often have very little to do with how educated someone is.

Career Success

Career success also can have very little to do with how educated someone is. I think we all acknowledge that social aspects are often at least as important or even more important than how educated someone is. We all know the director of a company who doesn't know a dam_n thing other than how to socialize and who is somehow paid handsomely for his incompetence. Thais are generally very good on this social part and perhaps (like Asians in general) disproportionately focused on it.

Culture

So, even if we think about a Thai engineering graduate who seems to be as technically capable as his peers anywhere else in the world, what other factors might influence his usefulness?

• Well, will he be able to confront new problems that he has not encountered before by asking new questions? Maybe.
• Will he be able to challenge authority when it is appropriate when he knows something his boss asked him to do is absolutely incorrect technically? Maybe.
• Will he be able to challenge authority or others when something is ethically inappropriate? Maybe.
• Will he himself be of strong ethics and morality in his work? Maybe.
• Will he be loyal and committed to his work or will he display signs of laziness? Don't know.
• Even assuming he has acquired excellent English language skills, will he exhibit the lazy, non-forthcoming style of communication culturally dominant in Thailand, or will he display a more open, explicit and forthcoming communication style? Don't know.
• Will he be able to handle conflict when necessary or will he display the culturally dominant trait of ignoring or avoiding the conflict? Don't know.

I think it is these kinds of problems that plague even the brightest in Thailand. Thais generally have a cultural problem when it comes to work and achievement.

[AYJAYDEE]

I think there are a few things being discussed here and some people are perhaps mixing them up. Have at it boys!

Ability to learn

Thais are not generally not "dumb" or any less capable of learning than any other group of humans. Of this, I am quite confident. It is Nurture that is the problem, not Nature.

Education

hais are generally very poorly educated by certain western standards. I think most would agree that this is generally true. But, some might say that, like the North Koreans, perhaps Thais are generally perfectly "educated" or "prepared" for Thai society which is does not value education (aside from the Thai-Chinese) and seems to value far more a person's social status (who their family is, who they know, what they look like, etc.). Thais are very impressively socialized (more than educated) to fit neatly into their roles of servitude and the society largely functions.

However, having a more useful discussion regarding education would require defining the required attributes for what we would consider educated. Does having learned the trained tricks of adding numbers in one's head proof of having been properly educated? And, what is properly educated? Is it being educated to a degree that allows a person to dominate his environment (Thailand) or does it require a person being generally as knowledgeable in a certain field as his peers anywhere else in the world? I would submit that in general Thais would not be able to compete with the more advanced economies, but does this matter to them? After all, Thailand does seem to generally function (albeit at standards far lower than many of us are used to from our old or other countries). And, sure there are a handful of very well educated (even by western standards or East Asian standards) Thais, but most would agree that they are generally in the minority.

Financial Success

Financial success can often have very little to do with how educated someone is.

Career Success

Career success also can have very little to do with how educated someone is. I think we all acknowledge that social aspects are often at least as important or even more important than how educated someone is. We all know the director of a company who doesn't know a dam_n thing other than how to socialize and who is somehow paid handsomely for his incompetence. Thais are generally very good on this social part and perhaps (like Asians in general) disproportionately focused on it.

Culture

So, even if we think about a Thai engineering graduate who seems to be as technically capable as his peers anywhere else in the world, what other factors might influence his usefulness?

• Well, will he be able to confront new problems that he has not encountered before by asking new questions? Maybe.
• Will he be able to challenge authority when it is appropriate when he knows something his boss asked him to do is absolutely incorrect technically? Maybe.
• Will he be able to challenge authority or others when something is ethically inappropriate? Maybe.
• Will he himself be of strong ethics and morality in his work? Maybe.
• Will he be loyal and committed to his work or will he display signs of laziness? Don't know.
• Even assuming he has acquired excellent English language skills, will he exhibit the lazy, non-forthcoming style of communication culturally dominant in Thailand, or will he display a more open, explicit and forthcoming communication style? Don't know.
• Will he be able to handle conflict when necessary or will he display the culturally dominant trait of ignoring or avoiding the conflict? Don't know.

I think it is these kinds of problems that plague even the brightest in Thailand. Thais generally have a cultural problem when it comes to work and achievement.

wrong ! and thai bashing is thai bashing no matter how you try and pretty it up.