Leaving The Job After One Month

[chm_nw]

Are there any (serious) consequences if one decides to leave the job, for whatever reason, after one month of teaching, especially if one did sign a one year contract ?

[Ijustwannateach]

In theory, I suppose that the school could sue you for breach of contract if you didn't give sufficient notice (what constitutes sufficient notice would *not* be what was written in the contract unless it complied with Thai law- not sure what maximum notice is legally). However, if the school had not finished doing all the paperwork to make you legal- in other words, if you had not yet been issued a full work permit- technically speaking you were working illegally the whole time. The school could turn you in for that, but not without admitting to employing you illegally at the same time, and there are fines and penalties for that, as well.

Bottom line- if you never had the work permit, you never really worked for them. Whether they're angry enough at you to implicate themselves legally is up to them.

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

Yeah without a WP even though a contract is still legally binding there's not a great deal they can do without stitching themselves up.

And even with a WP most don't bother being 'funny' about it, although they can play games with your half of the TL and the tax paperwork you need....but even with these you can generally get out of it.

[chm_nw]

In theory, I suppose that the school could sue you for breach of contract if you didn't give sufficient notice (what constitutes sufficient notice would *not* be what was written in the contract unless it complied with Thai law- not sure what maximum notice is legally). However, if the school had not finished doing all the paperwork to make you legal- in other words, if you had not yet been issued a full work permit- technically speaking you were working illegally the whole time. The school could turn you in for that, but not without admitting to employing you illegally at the same time, and there are fines and penalties for that, as well.

Bottom line- if you never had the work permit, you never really worked for them. Whether they're angry enough at you to implicate themselves legally is up to them.

"Steven"

So, in 99 % there will be no legal consequences ? Does it happen a lot, as far as you know ? I mean leaving the job after one month, or so.

Edited July 19, 2006 by chm_nw

[chm_nw]

See my post above...

Edited July 19, 2006 by chm_nw

[Thaiboxer]

Many farangs are employed "under the table" (no work permit, teacher's license, tax card, etc) and leave with no notice. In some cases, teachers who are legally employed get screwed by their schools...even after giving sufficient notice. Lots of things happen here and it often comes down to your relationship with the school. In the words of an ex-coworker, you will probably never have trouble working without a WP or leaving without notice provided you don't upset the wrong people. With such a high turnover in the teaching industry here, many schools just expect these things to happen from time to time. You'll just need a good explanation if your next employer inquires as to why you left so early. Good luck!

[kenkannif]

Chm,

I don't know about 99%...but it's probably not far off that.

Yes, IME a fair few teachers leave after a month, or less, or more....for many reasons.

[PeaceBlondie]

One month isn't long enough to even put on a resume. Without outright lying, you can pretend you weren't working during that month.

[chm_nw]

Chm,

I don't know about 99%...but it's probably not far off that.

Yes, IME a fair few teachers leave after a month, or less, or more....for many reasons.

IME means what ? And TL means Thai Law ???

[Lacoste]

Chm,

I don't know about 99%...but it's probably not far off that.

Yes, IME a fair few teachers leave after a month, or less, or more....for many reasons.

IME means what ? And TL means Thai Law ???

Just a guess but IME would be IN MY EXPERIENCE and TL would be TEACHERS LICENCE.

This is just a crazy guess though.

[Ijustwannateach]

At least the flexibility works both ways. The schools like the freedom to fire without the legalities, and the teachers like the freedom to leave. With full documentation, work permit, and all the legalities observed, both sides would have to clean up their act.

[chm_nw]

At least the flexibility works both ways. The schools like the freedom to fire without the legalities, and the teachers like the freedom to leave. With full documentation, work permit, and all the legalities observed, both sides would have to clean up their act.

As far as you know, (IYE = in your experience), are there quite a few teachers who just teach for a few months to earn some pocket money, and then "flee the scene", despiccable as it may sound ?

[Ijustwannateach]

I haven't yet worked at any school where that seemed to be the main motivation for most of the teachers to be working. Most of the places I've worked the teachers really seemed to want to stick around for awhile, and it was the school administrators who seemed to be doing their best to frustrate or cheat us into quitting.

I know there are places which primarily employ backpacker teachers (which is really what you're asking about)- usually various agencies. You can probably find a few of this sort on Khao San Road. No qualifications required, low pay, and all the flexibility you want. Why don't you sign up with one of those rather than leave a school offering a half-decent job in the lurch.

[chm_nw]

I know there are places which primarily employ backpacker teachers (which is really what you're asking about)- usually various agencies. You can probably find a few of this sort on Khao San Road. No qualifications required, low pay, and all the flexibility you want. /quote]

What kind of pay could one expect in such a situation, and is a work permit usually offered or not ?

[PeaceBlondie]

I know there are places which primarily employ backpacker teachers (which is really what you're asking about)- usually various agencies. You can probably find a few of this sort on Khao San Road. No qualifications required, low pay, and all the flexibility you want.

What kind of pay could one expect in such a situation, and is a work permit usually offered or not ?

Well, the term "backpackers" applies to people who have virtually no qualifications, including a proper visa for working in Thailand, and sometimes means they smell bad and don't come from a country where the natives speak English fluently. If you have a couple of doctor's degrees in a relevant field and wish to teach real postgraduate geniuses at the best univesity(ies) in Thailand, you're not a backpacker.

I'm not sure I ever met a backpacker, but I understand that if they can handle a decent interview, they might make 25K or even 28K, most months of the year, in some crummy school in Bangkok; less in other provinces. But I'm no expert.

[Ijustwannateach]

My way of reading "backpacker" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the qualifications, but with transient status- the key phrase in the OP's words for me was "teach a little while to earn some pocket money."

Well, it will be pocket money- assuming they don't cheat, steal or burn you in any number of ways (considering that as an illegal worker you'll have little recourse that doesn't also include a swift deportation), you might make as much or as little as 15-25K. If you fight really hard and you do well you might make 30K, but what's the point? That's almost in the realm of having a job.

There's no way in heck that KSR agencies expecting you to last about a month are going to invest in a work permit for you.

"Steven"

[chm_nw]

Well, it will be pocket money- assuming they don't cheat, steal or burn you in any number of ways (considering that as an illegal worker you'll have little recourse that doesn't also include a swift deportation),

"Steven"

"A swift deportation" : that sounds a little bit scary ! You mean out of the country ? Does that happen only seldom ? And in which scenario ?

[PeaceBlondie]

IJWTeach has mentioned a possibility (swift deportation) that isn't very likely, although it would be scary and out of the country. Seldom happens. Probably happens when you've made an enemy who reports you to the right authorities, who have the time and desire. Or, it might be a few nights in a jail, or a huge fine. Anyway, we can't promote illegal activities.

When someone is working full time and long term for a govt. school and isn't making any enemies, as was my case twice, you could probably get by without a WP, especially if the boss already took you to the MoLabour office and they said, "We don't issue work permits to teachers, ever." But to come here without a proper work visa or work permit or teacher's license or bachelor's degree or TEFL cert, and just want to work for a month to have pocket money - nah, that's over the line.

What we'd like to see, is that professional teachers with good credentials are able to do a good job teaching students who appreciate the teachers' efforts. Or at least, that teachers with less than professional credentials do a good job. Such things happen much more often than some of us have indicated.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think my reference to deportation has been taken out of context. It is true that such a consequence is rarely applied by chance or arbitrarily.

However, if you (as an illegal worker, i.e., with no work permit and even worse, possibly a tourist visa or a 30 day permit rather than non-imm. try to find RECOURSE (by suing them, etc.) against someone (i.e. your employer) for some reason (i.e., paying you only 30% of what they agreed to pay you by word of mouth), you will be exposing yourself to that consequence.

Of course, labour law is strong here. Most of the time, even labour cases by illegal immigrant workers are successful under the law. However, that doesn't stop the deportation process for them, either.

My point being that as an illegal worker you're really entirely at your employer's mercy, unless you want to throw up the whole ball of wax.