A Rose By Any Other Name: A story of naive tourists, desperate parents, and negligent police

[Eliot Rosewater]

slipperx

Because Thailand has no morals and no justice.

how right you are! Thailand and its populace should take lessons from countries where morals and justice are high priorities. instead of allowing little children to sell flowers in crowded and dangerous environments Thailand should once i a while invade a foreign country and/or kill/maim little children with smart bombs, landmines and hellfire rockets.

Maybe they should just do what is morally right, regardless of what anyone "tells" them.

[Eliot Rosewater]

This thread has turned into Thai bashing...

I have bought roses from children...I will never miss a few baht...some destitute family may have food on the table because of their child selling roses...

Or, according to the article; some destitute family may have lost a son or daughter because of the roses you (and others like you) have bought.

Think about that

[chotthee]

All the Rose selling children should be ban from the street, or be arrested.

[DisparateDan]

Thanks to slipperx for telling it how is, and to all the thoughtful posts on this topic.

While I have not read them all it appears that the "if you don't like it, leave" brigade are thankfully absent.

I have been/am so close to this problem I have had anxiety attacks and been reduced to tears frequently.

My greatest encouragment was some PM advice from member Mario**** who correctly said, you can't change

the whole world, but if you can significantly help one person that's good.

[connda]

...which is why I tell tourist who 'have to give money to the impoverished children and beggars: Don't -- you are supporting human trafficking!

[theslime]

...which is why I tell tourist who 'have to give money to the impoverished children and beggars: Don't -- you are supporting human trafficking!

a crystal ball, perchance?

[Jim walker]

Morals and scruple’s go out the window when it comes to Thai and money lovely money money always comes first. and this is not Thai bashing its just being honest

[Time Traveller]

Thailand could stop this if it wanted. Instead thailand acts like a spoilt brat having a tantrum by threatening lawsuits whenever anyone complains that Thailand is involved with human trafficking.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Time Traveller

[Carrerakiss]

"they have been doing it at least since the Vietnam war, probably since time began in one form or another."

And there you have the answer why Thailand is like it is; corruption, prostitution, human trafficking, etc. It has been a way of life for all Thais as long as they can remember and is entrenched in Thai society and is not going to change until the Thai people acknowledge the problems and get some ambition to change them. It's so much easier to just continue status quo and look the other way or implement selective enforcement of rules that are already in place to make it appear, to outsiders, that they are doing something.

So it's not going to change in our lifetimes then........or my six year old daughters lifetime.

[kurnell]

This thread has turned into Thai bashing...

I have bought roses from children...I will never miss a few baht...some destitute family may have food on the table because of their child selling roses...

Thai bashing? Hardly. Just observations.

[Carrerakiss]

I don't really understand how an article about Burmese child trafficking has turned into another anti "Thai" diatribe. Yes, Thailand has lots of problems but one cannot and should not put all Thai people into the same category.To suggest that Thai people have not morals is just not correct. Most often Thai people are quite moral but their morals are different than western morals and western morals or lack thereof can also be questioned.

Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong?

Specifically, does Thai society allow children not yet in their teenage years, indeed, sometimes not yet ten years old, work in their streets?

I think that it does. And that it continues to do so without expressing any public outrage or demanding any change. So maybe not all Thai people should be in the same category, but the fact that those who do NOT fit in it, do nothing at all, means that they deserve to be lumped in with everyone else.

So yes, Thai people have morals of their own, but they do not seem to include some morals that an enlightened society existing in today's day and age, should include. At least in my opinion.

[finnomick]

Since when did Khaosan Road become a popular night time destination ? It's a dive full of bars and shops selling the usual junk. Add to this the ' drug scene ' and I wonder who makes up this rubbish. Plus, if there are any questionable activities going on, there is a police station at the top end of the road !

[gomangosteen]

I won't judge them all; just based on my own experience

When we lived in Chalong, Phuket, a neighbour's house cleaner was part of this evil flower-selling . . .

She had been left with less than nothing by the farang who fathered three children. He did a runner leaving debts she had to repay.

Anything re-saleable had been repossessed from their rented house, she'd moved into a smaller place.

She cleaned houses during the daytime, bought flowers at the market and with two of her children used to sell them in Karon in the evenings

Somehow she kept those three kids at school, always spotless clean/pressed clothes

Not the future she'd ever imagined, or desired.

[FangFerang]

The Burmese 'boss' was paying Thais -- it's a way to stay one step away from what is condoned. Most Thais would never do such a thing, and which is why they are not the Thais in power on the streets or in government house.

This is an example of 'Unseen Thainess'.

[EASYDOGG]

Anyone who buys these roses has no concern about these kids. You are simply paying to keep them ON the street and KEEPING them out on their beds and safety.

Be more responsible and if you want to help, donate to a charity.

[attento]

It is to be hoped the young children can be returned to their families, but at the age of 10, one wonders if they know where they came from ?

Burma is a large country. Just how desparate must a family be, to send a child away with the hope of earning enough for the rest of the family to survive.

We fortunate people can never understand the desparate family situation which makes this a viable choice for their children.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

We fortunate people can never understand the desparate family situation which makes this a viable choice for their children.

It's the moral turpitude I can't understand.

[Hatyaier]

This thread has turned into Thai bashing...

I have bought roses from children...I will never miss a few baht...some destitute family may have food on the table because of their child selling roses...

So you support child labor and seem to be proud of it!

[mickyboy]

i been going to thailand now for some 8 years on and off and have seen that girl with the short black hair in khaosan from when she was about 5 or 6 now maybe she was 12 13 and often wondered why she was out at 1 am some times later and why not at school now i know she proberly so street wide now she could survive but she needs education and thats what this guy should have to pay for along with all the other kids he used and proberly would have abused given the chance later on

[Lupatria]

Try to get hold of these Thai parents first that allow their children selling flowers on the roads in every intersection of Thailand and then you can speak about the Burmese or Cambodians selling roses in BKK.

Why is Thailand keeping a blind eye to this problem?

Not only they are using minors to sell the flowers but they also put them in danger being on main roads and walking between cars.

Because Thailand has no morals and no justice. The populace consent to a corrupt inept police force, have lawyers who are largely uncontrolled and police who only want money - most do not have any idea what their job really entails. On top of that Thais are sickeningly selfish and many wickedly deceitful so no one gives s monkeys for any injustices - until iti s them involved of course.

The top government and police officials have to pay for their promotions so that the ones most adept at corruption become the richest and can pay the most so you have the most corrupt people at the top making laws and enforcing them on a populace of compliant laid back lambs. If you are foreign you can forget justice unless you are super rich because the whole team of police corrupt lawyers and lying paid witnesses will endure you won't win. Failing they bribe the judge. Poor little kids - who cares?

Maybe it is only me - sometimes it sure feels like if

Because Thailand has no morals and no justice. No need for that westerners crap they have THAINESS instead!

[GertrudeL]

So stinky bull story... Written to impress foreigners... <deleted> trafficking? Are you kidding me?

I remember the case of some Chinese workers found in European country working illegally at some factory. How Europeans helped them? You are right, they make them free from slavery and send them BACK to their country to die from starving...

Those poor kids will grow up as prostitutes in those shelters (read hundreds true stories about shelters). Instead force their bosses gave those kids proper food, working hours, higher profit share and may be some education (as requirement). In that case you will help those kids get better life!

Edited October 2, 2014 by GertrudeL

[Greg Nixon]

I was threatened and assaulted by another foreigner who later bribed the police to throw me in jail and then deport me. I had to take expensive counter measures that did not include bribery. Result two foreigners each pay 50,000 THB as a result of a bribe. Two locals in a fight and the fine would be 500 THB.

[noitom]

It's propaganda to make the Thais look pious. And to denigrate the Burmese and Cambodians. No mention of Thai big men controlling approving and raking in the money.

[Thai at Heart]

I don't really understand how an article about Burmese child trafficking has turned into another anti "Thai" diatribe. Yes, Thailand has lots of problems but one cannot and should not put all Thai people into the same category.To suggest that Thai people have not morals is just not correct. Most often Thai people are quite moral but their morals are different than western morals and western morals or lack thereof can also be questioned.

Thousands of Thais pass these kids every day, and they do precisely NOTHING to stop it. If this was a science programming you would think you were dealing with the instinctive behaviour of animals.

Ah, the Burmese send their kids to sell flowers, and watching here carefully, oddly the Thais do nothing. It is the fact that despite it being illegal, socially wrong.morally wrong, NO ONE does ANYTHING to stop it.

How many Thais are proud of thailands reputation for vice? Does anyone stop it? So tough. Put up and shut up about what the world thinks. If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem.

That is how a functioning society works

[GertrudeL]

What a pussy society we created... Have a look on a picture of TRUE man! He will grow up as gentleman and not another justin bieber! I did my first buiness than I was 7!!! and I am happy as I was doing my little business. Selling goods in street develops personality and ability to justify your ideas. Japanese are forcing their team leaders to stand in the middle of station and tell (loudly) their biography!

Edited October 2, 2014 by GertrudeL

[Cent]

This thread has turned into Thai bashing...

I have bought roses from children...I will never miss a few baht...some destitute family may have food on the table because of their child selling roses...

Nobel thought however you miss the point. These children are being exploited both by their parents and by their local handlers. This is no life for a child. Furthermore, the family's may be able to put a humble meal on the table while the handlers drive around in their luxury cars.

This is a real and internationally recognized problem with child labor and you feel that this is Thai Bashing. It is what it is.... disgraceful.

The actual point here is that this has been going on for decades or more. And the Thai police and government has allowed it to all this time. The police take bribes from these trafficked children's 'handlers' to allow them to do so. It is blatantly obvious and a disgrace that it has been allowed all along due to a corrupt Thai society that seems not to care. It's good to see the police doing something now, but I have seen these 'crackdowns' many many times over the years here, and it always returns to the status quo after a few weeks or months. Though the cost for the bribes goes up, and it just continues on as before. Same as it ever was. It's the same with the beggars. It's an industry.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Cent

[Ulic]

Don't buy flowers from children and the practise will soon stop. What are tourists thinking? Children should

be in bed for school the next day not selling flowers at 1am.

[Strangebrew]

Not here to bash anyone Thai people unfortunately Leave themselves open to bashing for the actions they do.

[GertrudeL]

Don't buy flowers from children and the practise will soon stop. What are tourists thinking? Children should

be in bed for school the next day not selling flowers at 1am.

Only if they are from the county where you can <deleted> around and still get paid... unfortuantely (or may be luckily?) they from country where each should work to get paid.

[Laughing Gravy]

I would like to add to this and totally agree that exploitation happens in many countries. If the people of Thailand and Westerners believe that it is only the Burmese children selling flowers they are naive and clearly avoiding the truth. Just look at the intersection at Fortune Town to see Children from Thailand selling flowers or cleaning cars.

As an example for those who travel to the airport along Ramkamheng Road and take the intersection to the airport signed Bang Pa In, will have noticed a couple with a young girl aged 10, selling flowers. This is next to the International School which is on the right hand side. I have never seen the girl in school and sells flowers every morning from 6.00am until the evening. They are Thai. I have seen this girl doing this for the last few years on her own and with her Mother as a child in her arms.

I did notice that she was putting weight on and just assumed that the family were feeding her well, as they sit by the side of the road eating and making religious flower (Dto Bua) to sell. Well it turns out that the police have arrested the father, as he has raped his daughter and she is pregnant. That is why she was putting the weight on. My point of this little story that has happened in the last few days, is this. There are good and bad people in every country. The ridiculous statements in the recent Koa Tao murders that a Thai couldn’t have possibly committed such a heinous crime, clearly shows that people are out of touch with reality. As someone who has lived here for a considerable time, I would like to see the people of Thailand take responsibility for the actions of their citizens. Often I hear from Thai people ‘that you don’t understand us’. Yes I do. I just don’t agree with you on some issues, such as what democracy is and what corruption is etc.

The people of Thailand please start questioning everything and look to improve this wonderful country. Take responsibility for your actions. Don’t constantly blame the Cambodians or the Burmese for things. Get rid of the childish ‘loss of face’ concept, blaming others and listen to other people. It is a big world out there and many countries have gone through similar problems, for self improvement. It seems at many levels questioning authority, radical change and taking blame, are alien concepts.

Before the ‘if you don’t like it get out of Thailand brigade’ start, let me clarify. I do like it here. It has flaws, like all countries. People should want to see things improved for the good of the country and the people. Although an alien myself, I have a Thai family, so it benefits me to see improvements.