Universal doubts cloud 'perfect' Koh Tao murder investigation

[transam]

He said Pommies. Thats why

Hmmmmmm, an Aussy with his "homeland" issues, perhaps....

[MikePhuket1970]

Good summary of last 3 weeks in BKK post

"Koh Tao case shatters faith in our police"

This report should be nailed in every policestation in this country and of course

on the forehead of JTJ as well

[lucpez]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

So why are the police not on this freak's tail?

Because of who he is and probably large brown envelopes

From the very beginning some locals where stating that "a Thai cannot do this". It seems Top Thai authorities share the same weird belief that tourism won't be hurt if it Burmese immigrants who did it while it would be a major issue if the murdered was Thai.

[CapFarmer]

What as come out of this report that has not been said before (that I have seen ) is that the 2 "Suspects" do not speak Thai.

I suspected this all along and it begs the question : Did they really understand what was going on when they were arrested and taken to a safe house to be interrogated for however long it was ?

It is said that a Rohinga was used as a translator but I cant believe that one translator was with both of them, probably separated, throughout the whole interrogation.

I didn't see the reenactment but I read from those who did that the pair had to be coached as to where to point and what to do, no translator by the look of it, did they really know what was happening ?

Independent DNA tests are the only way to go and if the police really believe they have the right people why would they refuse ? For if those tests were positive then it would prove beyond doubt they have the right people and vindicate them.

It was reported in several articles that the translator was involved in the beatings during the interrogations...

[Rykbanlor]

He said Pommies. Thats why

Yes, most of us are aware of the reference.

Oh you are? And I thought i was the only one who knew it. Dang!

[Tazwa]

How can we know David was attacked by a left handed person?

I must admit that his wounds don't look like what I'd expect to see from a hoe, especially the blunt side but I'm not basing this on any scientific understanding.

This is my biggest doubt in relation to David being attacked with a knife: in a struggle with someone who brandished a knife, wouldn't you expect more slash wounds to David's arms and body? I can't bring myself to believe the attacker would primarily stab into David's skull during a fight- I just can't get the image.

[balo]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

who is this man and why you say it is involved? Just asking because I don't followed the case

This is Nomsod, or Dodo - The son of village headman Warot Tuvichien. The Thai webpage CSI LA has been working on this guy. I read Thai so I have been able to scour the site and I believe he was involved too.

His father claims he wasn't there, and they have CCTV footage in his uni in BKK to prove it, but the CCTV footage is after 9am the next day and previously the day before. A speedboat was seen leaving the Island early and its assumed he got out to a nearby airport (samui/surat/etc).

He is the one running on the CCTV footage with no shirt. I have looked at many differnet cross-comparisons of his gait, haircut etc and he seems to be the one.

Also Thai people from Koh Tao, too afraid to speak out have contacted this page to say he was there that night, and other students at his uni confirmed he wasnt in for class the following day and when he did return people noticed scratches on his neck and arms.

Him along with his uncle, the 'mafia guy' in Seans picture, and at the crime site (Mon Tuvichien) are both left handed as seen from pictures, which is consistent with the wounds to David's body. The 2 Burmese are both right handed, I noticed myself from videos and pictures.

Don't underestimate the connections of the Tuvichien family.

If anyone wants to know anymore details feel free to PM me.

Regards

Well if this is true everything changes , but it's only rumours, isnt it?

Can the UNI really confirm that he wasn't in class the day after the murders? And that he had scratches on his neck and arms?

Why can't someone just confront the University about this , should be very easy to clarify .

Until someone in charge at the UNI actually can verify this , it will continue to be just a rumour.

[transam]

How can we know David was attacked by a left handed person?

I must admit that his wounds don't look like what I'd expect to see from a hoe, especially the blunt side but I'm not basing this on any scientific understanding.

This is my biggest doubt in relation to David being attacked with a knife: in a struggle with someone who brandished a knife, wouldn't you expect more slash wounds to David's arms and body? I can't bring myself to believe the attacker would primarily stab into David's skull during a fight- I just can't get the image.

Not a knife, a knuckle duster blade..

[CantSpell]

If the DNA test was positive that's that. Only other explanation is that it was introduced afterwards.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 1 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thing is it seems that those two were amongst the 200 that were tested the week before and there was no mention of any positive match at the time after over 4-5 days....

Did match the week after in a record time though (12h or something?)...

[CapFarmer]

I think it is only natural and right that this allegedly "perfect job" is being scrutinized and criticized by the public following all these inconsistencies and bizarre tales described in the OP. After all, no-one should be allowed to play with the lives of two people if there is even the slightest chance they may not be guilty of this horrendous crime.

I suppose that even the families and relatives of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge would not like to see a couple of scapegoats going to the gallows while the real culprits possibly still remain at large - or are perhaps even protected by some influential parties, as has been alleged more than once.

The RTP can at this point plead as much as they want how "perfect" this investigation has allegedly been, but a large proportion of the public both locally and abroad simply doesn't buy it. The RTP has nobody to blame but themselves for this situation, because in the past they have shown again and again what an incompetent, corrupt lot they are; nothing short of worthy of the Keystone Cops, actually.

That this latest case seemingly has been botched up once more only proves to the public that nothing has been learned from similarly botched-up cases in the past and that nothing has improved in terms of the RTP's investigative professionalism. THAT is why the public is suspicious. THAT is why the public demands transparency and honest answers. And THAT is why the public has the right to criticize and scrutinize.

And the RTPs stubborn refusal to permit an independent investigation and re-examination of evidence does not exactly help to remedy the current situation either, does it?

The police may have nailed down DNA evidence this time, even though they were unable to get a match the first time they checked samples from the suspects. But their case still depends on the suspects' confession, since the police will be unable to satisfactorily explain in court exactly what happened with all the discrepancies in their evidence.

It is very important that the suspects withdraw their confession and plead not guilty. The downside to them is no different is they lose. No deal from the police to spare them the death sentence can be honoured by the court. But they will not be executed for fear of bad relations with Burma. If they plead not guilty, decent lawyers would have a sporting chance of getting them off with only the illegal entry and work permit offences sticking. That's a fee trip to the Ranong crossing point. Change names, get new ID cards and passports and they could come back to Thailand as legal workers. The Thai authorities don't seem to know their real names anyway as they quote different names every time, all of which are different from the names quoted by the Burmese lawyer.

The police didn't take their DNA before they were detained, they lived outside the zone for testing in the first round.

I think they were tested with the original group of the hundreds of Burmese "suspects". In an earlier news media article, there was a picture of the boys standing in the DNA testing line. I saved the photo.

[Dannybigboy]

A perfect job.....a perfect investigation, you must be kidding !! Without DNA-matching this investigation will Always be in doubt !!

[Sure]

If it was a push dagger it's a punching weapon with a very short blade. Think knuckle duster rather than knife.

[daoyai]

The only hope for the truth is if the perpetrators dna was collected from the female victim in England before burial....if not, no hope.

[gerrythepoet]

• Thought the two arrested speak a language beginning with A as i previously read regarding their singing. Are they a minority in Myanmar- thus do people actually care? Might make sense why Myanmar is not making more of there arrests.

[fantom]

Presumption of innocence - Go on-----look it up

This case has produced reams of online debate.

I notice that both the Prime Minister and the chief of police have publicly stated that 'they have reviewed the evidence and they are (Prayut)'insisting police have solid forensic evidence to prove the men killed the young couple' (well known newspaper 4thOct) there is more - much more.

The point is that it is now impossible for these men to have any hope of a fair trial when the PM and police chief are at the very outset seeming to say they are guilty.

Even the worst work opportunity lawyer in the world should be able to laugh this case out of court

[DekDaeng]

Now the burmese have their lawyers perhaps we could start a fund to match the $1 million baht that the head man said he would pay if anyone could prove anyone from his family was involved....

Let's rustle up a million baht and offer it to the heads mans family if they give DNA samples to the UK authorities..All the sons and cousins...not put the samples in a taxi fto Singapore and end up in bkk...Let the uk compare them with the samples they have

If they have nothing to hide they'd jump at it and all this inuendo would vanish...

Then their sweet little Island can return to business as normal, even regain their already lost face and income,

What's worse for a Thai, loss of face or money? Well you have all of the above now..

Would be the perfect call for his disgusting offer of a million to prove his family did it...

The familes DNA holds the key..

What's this bullshit about giving DNA to the Pommies,,,If one wants a independent investigation I would say the only ones that could maybe help the Thai investigators is a combined effort from the UN and the Thai Police,,,Not UK!

What Thais can't understand (esp RTP) is that tourists just want justice done, & seen to be done - the real perps locked up, then doffed.

RTP think that tourists / fallangs / expats will be happy if it is 'shown' to be not a Thai - irrespective of the fact that it happened 100% in Thailand.

Gunna kick all Burmese out of Thailand now? Who's gunna take out the garbage?

Give DNA to the Pommies. (& not bought from a gay male Burmese prostitute)

[MrJohnson]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11147921/Amnesty-urges-investigation-into-torture-of-Thai-island-murder-suspects.html

Now that has clout to quote another, the pressure is mounting.

I wonder how JTJ will spin this one out

Good Article. The RTP cannot afford to have this case go to trial or undergo any kind of scrutiny at all - it will fall apart very quickly.

Makes it a bit scary for the lives of these two then - and the third "witness" being held incognito.

Deaths in custody?

[mdmayes]

The real upsetting thing about this is the BIB could frame anyone (including you and me). This shows Thainess at its ugliest.

[freedom4life]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

who is this man and why you say it is involved? Just asking because I don't followed the case

This is Nomsod, or Dodo - The son of village headman Warot Tuvichien. The Thai webpage CSI LA has been working on this guy. I read Thai so I have been able to scour the site and I believe he was involved too.

His father claims he wasn't there, and they have CCTV footage in his uni in BKK to prove it, but the CCTV footage is after 9am the next day and previously the day before. A speedboat was seen leaving the Island early and its assumed he got out to a nearby airport (samui/surat/etc).

He is the one running on the CCTV footage with no shirt. I have looked at many differnet cross-comparisons of his gait, haircut etc and he seems to be the one.

Also Thai people from Koh Tao, too afraid to speak out have contacted this page to say he was there that night, and other students at his uni confirmed he wasnt in for class the following day and when he did return people noticed scratches on his neck and arms.

Him along with his uncle, the 'mafia guy' in Seans picture, and at the crime site (Mon Tuvichien) are both left handed as seen from pictures, which is consistent with the wounds to David's body. The 2 Burmese are both right handed, I noticed myself from videos and pictures.

Don't underestimate the connections of the Tuvichien family.

If anyone wants to know anymore details feel free to PM me.

Regards

Well if this is true everything changes , but it's only rumours, isnt it?

Can the UNI really confirm that he wasn't in class the day after the murders? And that he had scratches on his neck and arms?

Why can't someone just confront the University about this , should be very easy to clarify .

Until someone in charge at the UNI actually can verify this , it will continue to be just a rumour.

I'm going to the uni. myself to find-out more about this class-act of a guy...police are not going to follow-up, then I will. Enough is enough.

[docshock13]

According to newspaper that cannot be linked here, RTP are done with the case and have nothing more to say about it.

[haybilly]

He said Pommies. Thats why

Yes, most of us are aware of the reference.

Oh you are? And I thought i was the only one who knew it. Dang!

Yes, sorry, it was a bit obvious.

Apologies.

[Sydebolle]

Could it be that the DNA samples taken from the victims were "mixed up" and hence could match any other DNA samples taken from suspects? Naahhhh, not here .........

[ttthailand]

Perhaps the UK Government should just do their own analysis on any samples recovered and fully publish them online for future verification by anyone who cares to do so.

For example the parents / siblings of the accused will show familial matches with the evidence assuming they are guilty.

This won't go away, proof of innocence would be just as damning as proof of guilt.

I suspect the Burmese and British governments will be setting this up right now if they care at all about this case.

There's nothing the Thai's could do to prevent this or meddle with it in any way.

This is thinking outside of the box... I like this.

As you state, if the DNA samples taken from the female victim does not make a family match to the Burmese then they are not the rapists.

The only thing the British Gov. Needs to do is take a sample from the mother or father of the Burmese guys.

This could be done without the involvement of the Thai Government.

Hopefully DNA samples were taken in the UK after the victims were sent home.

[KIWIBATCH]

= BiB

That's you in their little black book!

hahaha....I am not the slightest bit in a sweat (taking your post in good humour)....all of what I have posted is in the Thai print media...has been for hours...cheers

[kkup]

There's probably someone in a lab in the UK right now that knows if the DNA belongs to a Thai or Burmese National.

[Oziex1]

Congratulations to all on this forum and all media the Thai authorities are on the run now, with statements of action against the sceptics. What ever happens to the Burmese 2 (and I hope they are acquitted) is almost secondary to the fact the Thai authorities have totally kicked an own goal, totally lost face, totally failed in trying to sell their BS to the world and their own people.

Haven't these fools realised the power of the global village connected on line!

Sincere apologies if I made the Police sad, by not believing them.

[johninengland]

A ' perfect job ', I wonder what he would call one that had really been botched ?

yes exactly!

which one of the accused dyed there hair from blonde (there was blonde hairs found in female victims hand) to black?

who and where is the 3rd suspect who was a witness at the scene, and named the accused ? one report was that he ran away?

this gets worse every day

[mike324]

Here's the non-suspect who fled the island the day after and has not provided a dna sample.

Mon sot.....

Taken from his fb page

who is this man and why you say it is involved? Just asking because I don't followed the case

This is Nomsod, or Dodo - The son of village headman Warot Tuvichien. The Thai webpage CSI LA has been working on this guy. I read Thai so I have been able to scour the site and I believe he was involved too.

His father claims he wasn't there, and they have CCTV footage in his uni in BKK to prove it, but the CCTV footage is after 9am the next day and previously the day before. A speedboat was seen leaving the Island early and its assumed he got out to a nearby airport (samui/surat/etc).

He is the one running on the CCTV footage with no shirt. I have looked at many differnet cross-comparisons of his gait, haircut etc and he seems to be the one.

Also Thai people from Koh Tao, too afraid to speak out have contacted this page to say he was there that night, and other students at his uni confirmed he wasnt in for class the following day and when he did return people noticed scratches on his neck and arms.

Him along with his uncle, the 'mafia guy' in Seans picture, and at the crime site (Mon Tuvichien) are both left handed as seen from pictures, which is consistent with the wounds to David's body. The 2 Burmese are both right handed, I noticed myself from videos and pictures.

Don't underestimate the connections of the Tuvichien family.

If anyone wants to know anymore details feel free to PM me.

Regards

A good break down.

Here is the link to the Thai Amateur CSI FB https://www.facebook.com/CSILA90210/timeline

[denkiblue555]

What as come out of this report that has not been said before (that I have seen ) is that the 2 "Suspects" do not speak Thai.

I suspected this all along and it begs the question : Did they really understand what was going on when they were arrested and taken to a safe house to be interrogated for however long it was ?

It is said that a Rohinga was used as a translator but I cant believe that one translator was with both of them, probably separated, throughout the whole interrogation.

I didn't see the reenactment but I read from those who did that the pair had to be coached as to where to point and what to do, no translator by the look of it, did they really know what was happening ?

Independent DNA tests are the only way to go and if the police really believe they have the right people why would they refuse ? For if those tests were positive then it would prove beyond doubt they have the right people and vindicate them.

It was reported in several articles that the translator was involved in the beatings during the interrogations...

Evidently this is the translator.

And here is some copy which goes with the photo from CSI fb:

1. Why did the police pick a Roti Street Vendor as an official translator translator? Was he trying to save some Thai tax payers' money?

2 Why did he pick a Rohingya muslim translator for Rakhine suspects?

[bunglebag]

We don't care about the nationality of the murderers, we just want the true perpetrators brought to justice.

Thai authorities might prefer it not to be Thais but do seem to be able to accept that occasionally Thais can be guilty of very serious crimes - e.g. the 2 Thai fishermen swimming ashore to rape and kill in a previous case. In this case though there is a serious appearance that a certain powerful / influential Thai family / clique is being protected whatever the cost.

Edited October 8, 2014 by bunglebag