Murders on Koh Tao: UK, Myanmar 'can observe'

[webfact]

DEATHS AT KOH TAO
UK, Myanmar 'can observe'
The Nation


British Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent, left, is seen leaving after a meeting at the Foreign Ministry yesterday. The ministry invited the British and the Myanmar ambassadors to discuss the investigation into the murder of two British tourists on Koh Tao

PM says representatives welcome to inspect Koh Tao murder site with local police

BANGKOK: -- The United Kingdom and Myanmar are welcome to "observe" progress on the Koh Tao murders case and can send personnel to visit the site and gather information alongside Thai police, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said yesterday.

Although the Thai side is confident that police have arrested the right people for the murder of two British backpackers, Prayut said police were ready to share information with both countries if they remain suspicious.

The premier was speaking after ambassadors from the two countries met with Police chief Pol General Somyot Pumpanmuang and Foreign Ministry officials and were briefed on details of the investigation that led to the arrest of two migrant workers from Myanmar.

The ambassadors sought permission to send representatives to observe and follow up on the investigation with Thai police, Foreign Ministry spokesman Sek Wannamethee said.

Officials from Britain and Myanmar are involved in the matter because two Britons were killed on the tourist island off the Surat Thani coast on September 15, while two Myanmar nationals were recently accused of the murders.

Sek said representatives from the UK and Myanmar would be able to follow up on the case until it reaches court for trial.

The ambassadors attended a three-hour meeting at the Foreign Ministry, with a deputy permanent secretary at the ministry, Kiattikhun Chartprasert, taking part.

Sek said representatives from both countries would take part in the observation, while the police would assign liaison officers to directly coordinate with both countries.

Documents on updates would be handed regularly to both countries during the observation process, he added.

Kiattikhun informed the meeting that Prayut attached a great deal of importance to the case and the investigation, the spokesman said.

Somyot, meanwhile, said the discussion with the ambassadors was not so much a meeting, but rather an explanation about how the police had solved the case and clarification of what he said was a quick process that had been widely questioned by sceptics.

The ambassadors now have a better understanding of the police's work and did not express any suspicion over it, he said.

"And if British authorities want to take part in the observation, the Thai police would welcome it. There will be no anxiety, as the police believe that the investigation results have come out right," he added.

Meanwhile, the British ambassador, Mark Kent, sought a meeting at 1.30pm tomorrow with the National Broadcasting and Telecommuni-cations Commission to discuss how the Thai media has reported the murders.

Advanced testimony

Advanced testimony by three state witnesses in the murder case was given at Surat Thani provincial court yesterday, despite complaints by human-rights activist Andy Hall that the case was hurried.

The judges had been convinced by public prosecutors that advanced testimony would not put the two defendants at a disadvantage, as the statements were not crucial information against them.

Moreover, the case is currently in the public prosecutors' authority, and not yet at the trial stage, when it would fall fully under the court's jurisdiction.

Advanced testimonies are allowed under Thai procedural regulations, when the individuals involved are foreigners - either as state or defence witnesses.

Before the session began, Hall asked that the testimony be postponed for another month, as two lawyers had been newly assigned by the Lawyers Council of Thailand to represent the defendants after their lawyer, Phailbook Nunraksa, withdrew his services.

Police have charged the two migrant workers from Myanmar with the murder of David Miller, 24, and the rape and murder of Hannah Witheridge, 23. The tourists' battered bodies were found on Koh Tao a month ago.

Police have said the men confessed to the crime and their DNA matched samples taken from Witheridge's body.

However, unease over the case has deepened amid reports that the suspects were tortured into confessing - a claim the police have strongly denied.

The British ambassador yesterday posted on his Facebook page that he had had a meeting lasting nearly three hours with Thai police, the Foreign Ministry, the Burmese ambassador and delegation on the Koh Tao murders, but gave no details about what was discussed.

Before the meeting, an official from the Myanmar president's office in Nay Pyi Daw told Agence France-Presse that he hoped the talks "would help bring a fair and genuine investigation" into the case, which many have accused the Thai authorities of mishandling.

"We hope Thai authorities will act with balance and accuracy to prosecute the offenders according to the law and not take action wrongly against those who didn't commit the crime," he said, requesting anonymity.

Thai representative summoned

On Monday, Hugo Swire, the UK minister for the Far East and Southeast Asia, summoned the Thai charges d'affaires to the UK, Nadhavathna Krishnamra, to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to raise his concerns about the investigation into the murders of the two Britons.

Swire stressed that there was a real concern in the United Kingdom about how the investigation had been handled by the Thai authorities, and said it was crucial for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-Myanmar-can-observe-30245501.html


-- The Nation 2014-10-15

[englishoak]

3 hrs is a long meeting, interesting.

[kriswillems]

The UK has to do an independent UK check.

There can only be cooperation if that's allowed.

The rest is bullshit.

Edited October 14, 2014 by kriswillems

[NongKhaiKid]

An offer to visit the crime scene is lame and proves nothing. The scene is a beach area which I doubt has been guarded until now, there are photos of people wandering all over it and there's the small matter of the tide.

BBC World Television is reporting the PM declining British assistance as the evidence is ' strong '. It's also reported there's criticism of how the matter has handled but we know that's wrong as the PM has said so.

[NongKhaiKid]

3 hrs is a long meeting, interesting.

I wonder who did most of the talking ?

[ATF]

The BBC just announced that Britain's offer for help has been rejected.

This trial is going to be railroaded through regardless.

[jaidam]

I have noticed a pattern emerging. When the perps of a crime are po***e officers, investigators will go to any lengths to avoid catching them. Think of poor KJ in Chiangmai, think of Mr Lloyd and Ms Arscott in Kanchanaburi, think of Leo Del P in Pai. I'm not talking about a one off here.

Now think to Sean and his being chased by 2 persons who wanted to have him hang. Can you join the dots? And he didn't even get transferred to an inactive post!

Edited October 14, 2014 by jaidam

[Fred Flinstone]

Thais could easily clear all these doubts up , and be seen to have been right all along.

Why risk a massive decline in confidence world wide?

The UK forensic DNA tests would if permitted vindicate them 100%

Or would they?

Obviously , its clear Thais have gone so far down their deceitful path , with such a vested interest in closing the case , its too late to back track-

With so much at stake , its clear why they won't simply clear their name and allow the tests.

This is a crime as heinous as the murderers ones.

Plucking innocents and sacrificing them and arrogantly saying ""mind your own business ""case closed"

If they do that "'woe unto them and their tourist dollars$ in future>"

[bruceybonus]

The best thing they can do is change the warning to red - advise against all travel! Holiday premiums would rocket and subsequently no British would go!

[Robby nz]

It was reported that the advance testimony was supposed to be done today, Wednesday, yet now we are told it was done yesterday.

Were the lawyers present ?

If so were they allowed to cross examine the witnesses ? If not and the witnesses disappear before the trial (the reason given for early testimony was that the witnesses might leave the country) then there will be no chance to challenge their statements in court.

Were the accused present ? It was reported yesterday that they would be there to hear the testimony against them.

Will the witnesses statements be made public ?

[NongKhaiKid]

The BP today is reporting the PM is denying the Thai charge d' affair was summoned saying he went to clarify matters.

I believe the Foreign office was quite clear on what happened but of course how could Thailand accept such a situation ever existed.

The PM seems to be finding running the country isn't like running the army where everybody's automatic answer was " Yes Sir ' and even if he was wrong he was right.

If he keeps this sort of thing up I can see some members of the international media will belying in wait for him in Milan and although LoS likes to think it's on the world stage. it won't be the kind of reception he wants.

[NeverSure]

It's BS.

Unless the UK is allowed to take its own DNA swabs from the suspects and compare them to what they have from Hannah, it's all a farce.

"Observe?"

It's time for the UK to get tough. I won't say how on this forum, but the UK wields a lot of clout.

[ParadiseLost]

3 hrs is a long meeting, interesting.

I wonder who did most of the talking ?

The one not zoning out, nodding off, or checking his phone every 5 minutes?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

[MJP]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

Have the confessions been formally withdrawn?

[Laughing Gravy]

Sadly it was a great opportunity for Thailand to improve and restore the worlds faith in the RTP. It is no surprise that this action has been given. I would trust the BBC more than the Nation on its reporting and hopefully they will get it right soon.. Anyone with a small amount of intelligence can see there are inconsistences and lots of questions unanswered with these murders. This case will not go away and with the world and social media following it closely, this could end up to hurt Thailand more than ever.

It is a shame that this opportunity was wasted. Same old crap of saving face instead of having transparency. Nothing seems to change and at times just gets worse which is frustrating when you want to see improvement for all. There was me thinking that the country was developing. Only in my dreams.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

Have the confessions been formally withdrawn?

No.

The entire recant story came from a translation by Coconuts from a Myranmar newspaper where a lawyer, who visited the two said they recanted but the funny thing is he and the embassy staff who were all that meeting said they confessed at their meeting.

The police have stated publicly they have not recanted.

[Living in a cartoon]

Where is Wikileaks when you really want them? I'd love to see the cables between Kent and the FCO.

The Thai government is handling this about as expected.

[thesetat2013]

Really! So the UK and Myannmar officials can be given the reports to view. What good is that if they are fake? They can observe but not participate. And they can only do so until it goes to trial.

So anything can be said and done once the trial starts including giving evidence they didn't want to give to the UK and Myannmar officials.

These Bermy men dont stand a chance whether they are guilty or not.

And what about the 3rd DNA they got from the girl? Or the condom that was stripped clean of semen..

This case is nowhere near solved

[jaidam]

If I may, a few words of advice to the British observers when they arrive at the scene.

1)Do not ask why cctv from the relevant bars have dissapeared. Nor ask why some tapes have been edited and have critical minutes "missing"

2)Do not ask whether police had checked mobile phone records from the morning of the murder.1am-5am Sairee beach. Koh Tao.

3)Do not ask certain local politicos why they said their son was on the island, and then changed story.

4)Do not ask if the above clan have a long record of hushed up sexcrimes and assaults. Do not ask if they were charged for employing illegal migrants, nor ask if they were charged as regards the drugs discovered in their premises a week after the murders.

5)Do not question why a serving policeman was trying to hang a potential witness.

6)Do not ask why the person mentioned in 5 is still on duty, wandering around with his firearm thinking he's cock of the rock.

7)Do not research the many many other murders and rapes/assaults that have occurred in this area.

8)Do not ask why the forensic/ballistic evidence does not correlate with the re-enactment, at all, in any shape or form.

If you start asking Q's such as these, there is a grave danger you will actually find. Motive. Evidence. The perps. This will not be suitable, nobody wants to see the Gen and Somyot lose face.

Edited October 15, 2014 by jaidam

[Lex Talionis]

This is good news. Now British observers can examine first hand the DNA evidence and the circumstances surrounding the confessions. Can't wait to hear their report.

[ParadiseLost]

Sadly it was a great opportunity for Thailand to improve and restore the worlds faith in the RTP. It is no surprise that this action has been given. I would trust the BBC more than the Nation on its reporting and hopefully they will get it right soon.. Anyone with a small amount of intelligence can see there are inconsistences and lots of questions unanswered with these murders. This case will not go away and with the world and social media following it closely, this could end up to hurt Thailand more than ever.

It is a shame that this opportunity was wasted. Same old crap of saving face instead of having transparency. Nothing seems to change and at times just gets worse which is frustrating when you want to see improvement for all. There was me thinking that the country was developing. Only in my dreams.

If you think about it, 'Nothing seems to change' is precisely why the veil of secrecy was lowered. What is the only thing that has not changed in Thailand, in your/my lifetime?

Note the rhetorical nature of the question.

[HeijoshinCool]

The ambassadors now have a better understanding of the police's work and did not express any suspicion over it, he said.

[allan michaud]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

How do you come to that conclusion? TIT, I very much doubt the lawyer has any right to have more DNA tests run.

[ozsamurai]

They will just let them observe only what they want to show them, it's called smoke'n'mirrors. Like entertaining the Olympic Committee, all smiles and wais while keeping them away from anything they 'don't need to know', they will come away convinced of the RTP story and that will be that, Thailand was right again!

Oz

[craigt3365]

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[JohnThailandJohn]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Why is it conspiracy theorists can't grasp the fact that these two admitted murdering rapists have lawyers who can run whatever DNA tests they want including getting the UK involved in the defense.

How do you come to that conclusion? TIT, I very much doubt the lawyer has any right to have more DNA tests run.

You are kidding right? You don't think the defense team is allowed to put on a defense or question evidence?

They without a doubt can submit their own test results to counter prosecution claims just as they can submit evidence to show confession were got illegally. Neither of which I believe will happen as I am fairly certain they will please guilty and show as much remorse as possible to escape the death penalty and have a chance to be able to see freedom again.

Edited October 15, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Baerboxer]

Politics always rules.

Ignoring the circumstances of this case, if Thailand request or allow the British and/or Myanmar government to actually carry out an investigation, with their own tests it sets a precedent. Every foreigner charged with anything would cry fit up and ask for an independent foreign investigations. So would victims or their relatives dissatisfied with progress or results of investigations.

No country will ever allow the authority of its law enforcement to be put in that position.

Britain and Myanmar can observe only. That is, in political terms, a major concession. Will they have to sign non disclosure agreements?

Mark Kent is correct to seek a meeting regarding the behavior of the media. But, the police also should be looking at gagging those officers who fueled the media with all sorts of comments.

Thailand's judicial and law enforcement needs reform but it must come internally. No country will allow another country to determine this.

Unfortunately political expediency does cater for justice.

[fxe1200]

Sign,it may help!

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/u/8427684?recruiter=24195962&utm_source=share_update&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=facebook_link&fb_action_ids=10152739224405926&fb_action_types=og.shares

[TTom911]

Thais could easily clear all these doubts up , and be seen to have been right all along.

Why risk a massive decline in confidence world wide?

The UK forensic DNA tests would if permitted vindicate them 100%

Or would they?

Obviously , its clear Thais have gone so far down their deceitful path , with such a vested interest in closing the case , its too late to back track-

With so much at stake , its clear why they won't simply clear their name and allow the tests.

This is a crime as heinous as the murderers ones.

Plucking innocents and sacrificing them and arrogantly saying ""mind your own business ""case closed"

If they do that "'woe unto them and their tourist dollars$ in future>"

we'll just be given the run-around...

Edited October 15, 2014 by TTom911