Thailand's troubled tourism industry struggles to recover

[shaggy28303]

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Thailand needs to lift its game in a more competitive market hot air and empty promises only go so far.

Lets keep in mind the global economy plays in if people have the money to vacation or not. Also the past 10 years of Thailand manipulating the BAHT rate (keeping it strong against the dollar). This past year averaged 30baht where as the Philippine paso averaged 41.

[blazes]

It surprises me that so many posters seem to be happy when something negative is published about Thailand. From psychological perspective you could reason that many foreigners residing in Thailand are sour depressed grapes.

I just went on a 10 day holiday in the south of Thailand (I live in Bangkok) and it was absolutely fantastic! Thailand still rocks!

You didn't see any Muslims then?

[Tim207]

He means rip-off prices for farangs, away from the major malls. And it's true. If you don't think there's a 2 tier system, you haven't been here long enough. What costs a Thai 20 Baht will cost you 35 Baht. What costs a Thai 500 baht will cost you 800 Baht - ignoring the large chain stores, that is.

Maybe you just need to get away from tourist areas.

[smedly]

Like I have said many times on TVF -

If they had been spending even 5% of the tourism revenue they've been earning over the last 30 years back into infrastructure and destinations instead of stuffing all of it into their greedy pockets then just maybe they would now have something to complete with and promote - as it stands because of the lack of forward thinking and extreme greed - Thailands tourist destinations remain as dirty - dangerous - scam ridden - poorly maintained slums that seem to pride themselves on the mistreatment of visitors at every level, it will take a very long time to change this image if that is even possible, not to mention the ever increasing crime rates and the ever increasing serious drug problems - it's a tall order to say the least

[DLock]

The TAT has sat around a table for 20 years, each year coming up with a new slogan and watched the tourist numbers increase.

The patted each other on the back as being the smartest people in the world, enjoyed fat bonuses and enjoyed junkets. No matter what happened in Thailand, this happened year after year after year.

Now, they are facing serious competition, global issues and local problems and the best they can do is come up with a new slogan.

They haven't got a clue what to do now. These random, conflicting newspaper article everyday show they are confused. Thailand needs a shake up. The tourist industry needs a wake up call.

This has been a long time coming...

[ToddinChonburi]

Now wait, they just said bookings were way up for November and December. Left hand , right hand OOOOOOPS !!!!!!!

[Commerce]

He means rip-off prices for farangs, away from the major malls. And it's true. If you don't think there's a 2 tier system, you haven't been here long enough. What costs a Thai 20 Baht will cost you 35 Baht. What costs a Thai 500 baht will cost you 800 Baht - ignoring the large chain stores, that is.

Maybe you just need to get away from tourist areas.

Never lived in a tourist area. Far from it. There's still a 2 tier system, or do you disagree?

[Fat Haggis]

It surprises me that so many posters seem to be happy when something negative is published about Thailand. From psychological perspective you could reason that many foreigners residing in Thailand are sour depressed grapes.

I just went on a 10 day holiday in the south of Thailand (I live in Bangkok) and it was absolutely fantastic! Thailand still rocks!

You didn't see any Muslims then?

Maybe he's A Royal Thai Army Ranger and was on a busmens holiday? 5555

Many tourists are still happy visiting the country have you considered that many do their own thing and don't interact much with TAT run issues?

Haters will always hate, and there's thousands of decent locations away from the high octane locations of Pattaya , Phuket and Bangkok, so much to see and visit that 7-10 days would never be enough.

I rarely see "tourists " around Korat and surrounding areas, I can go for days without seeing other farangs in the area too, and yet there's some quality cheap hotels And resorts up here that never see many tourists

[jdinasia]

He means rip-off prices for farangs, away from the major malls. And it's true. If you don't think there's a 2 tier system, you haven't been here long enough. What costs a Thai 20 Baht will cost you 35 Baht. What costs a Thai 500 baht will cost you 800 Baht - ignoring the large chain stores, that is.

Maybe you just need to get away from tourist areas.

Never lived in a tourist area. Far from it. There's still a 2 tier system, or do you disagree?

I completely disagree. Then again I actually have experience living far away from tourists.

[Fat Haggis]

Korat zoo is hardly a tourist hub but they have different prices for "foreigners" compared to Thais it's about 100 baht of a difference.

Although to be fair I go there 2-3 times a month with the wife and her nephews and nieces and the ladies on the kiosk suggested I buy a year pass as she sees us all the time, I've yet to do this, even though it makese sense financially too!'

[Orac]

The Koh Tao murders have cast a harsh spotlight on the safety of tourism in Thailand which is hugely reliant, like most things, on peoples perceptions. What it has exposed is the lack of care and general relaxed attitude the authorities and others involved in tourism here have towards the safety of foreign visitors. Every incident now is being picked up by the foreign press and, where before it would have had little impact, is now being seen as part of a larger picture be it the recent ferry accident or the tiger mauling in Phuket which is in the uk press today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/thailand/11179252/Tiger-mauls-tourist-in-Phuket-tiger-park.html

Edited October 23, 2014 by Orac

[emilymat]

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Thailand needs to lift its game in a more competitive market hot air and empty promises only go so far.

Lets keep in mind the global economy plays in if people have the money to vacation or not. Also the past 10 years of Thailand manipulating the BAHT rate (keeping it strong against the dollar). This past year averaged 30baht where as the Philippine paso averaged 41.

You make a good point. Let's take my experience.

I started organising informal trips in 1999 with a largish group, to play golf for 2/3 weeks.

At that time the pound was around 72 baht. The economics of that can be roughly shown below.

1996

Nice hotel in Pattaya.......700 baht/night for 20 nights. 14000 or 194 (UK)

Golf around Pattaya.........1000 baht (with tip) x 10 10000 or 138 (UK)

Eating/drinking etc (roughly) 2000 a day x 20 40000 or 555 (UK)

Others (Taxi's/trips etc) (roughly) 400 a day x 20 8000 or 111 (UK)

Air fare .....varies I know but about 450 (UK)

Total 1448 (UK)

So you could have a great holiday during the UK winter with all the 'charm' of Thailand at that time.

Now, with the UK pound at 52 (has dropped as low as 46) I would estimate that the same 20 day holiday would cost

Nice hotel in Pattaya 1500 x 20 30000 or 576 (UK)

Golf 2000 x 10 20000 384 (UK)

Eating out etc (guess) 2000 x 20 40000 769 (UK)

Others (Lets say 500 a day) x 20 10000 192 (UK)

Air fare....varies can be around 700-800 with Emirates 750 (UK)

Total 2671 (UK)

Now, I know we could argue those figures all day, (e.g. there are cheaper hotel rooms and maybe you can get better airfares if you fly with Aeroflot etc).

But, this group I used to come with were the quality tourists that Thailand talks about. We had many couples from the golf club.

95% of that group packed it in a few years ago as it was simply too expensive, they might as well go to Spain or Portugal. Plus, the 'magic' of Thailand wears off (as many TVF posters are well aware).

Throw in murders, military coups and the rest and you can see why the 'quality' tourists, at least from the UK are down.(I use that expression loosely, as the TAT seem to love it) When you are spending 5 grand for a couple on holiday you're going to be more selective than previously.

The poster is from the USA I suspect, but the experience may well be the same for his country. I don't know.

[Commerce]

He means rip-off prices for farangs, away from the major malls. And it's true. If you don't think there's a 2 tier system, you haven't been here long enough. What costs a Thai 20 Baht will cost you 35 Baht. What costs a Thai 500 baht will cost you 800 Baht - ignoring the large chain stores, that is.

Maybe you just need to get away from tourist areas.

Never lived in a tourist area. Far from it. There's still a 2 tier system, or do you disagree?

I completely disagree. Then again I actually have experience living far away from tourists.

I suspect a little sarcasm. I've never lived in a tourist area, despite living here for over 10 years. I also speak the lingo more than well.

Small villages near Saraburi, Phatumtani and Udon and Ubon are not tourist areas. However, there is still a divide in prices between farangs and Thais - especially concerning local goods. So I have as much experience as you. If my wife is with me, it is a different matter altogether of course, but if I go alone, they sure try their best. Tourists have no chance, and tourists do frequent such areas, and are ripped off in such places, or do you beg to differ on that one too?

[Commerce]

The Koh Tao murders have cast a harsh spotlight on the safety of tourism in Thailand which is hugely reliant, like most things, on peoples perceptions. What it has exposed is the lack of care and general relaxed attitude the authorities and others involved in tourism here have towards the safety of foreign visitors. Every incident now is being picked up by the foreign press and, where before it would have had little impact, is now being seen as part of a larger picture be it the recent ferry accident or the tiger mauling in Phuket which is in the uk press today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/thailand/11179252/Tiger-mauls-tourist-in-Phuket-tiger-park.html

I agree with the majority of what you write, but for the latter. One has to be a complete moron to even think of petting a tiger at a zoo - end of!

[jpeg]

It surprises me that so many posters seem to be happy when something negative is published about Thailand. From psychological perspective you could reason that many foreigners residing in Thailand are sour depressed grapes.

I just went on a 10 day holiday in the south of Thailand (I live in Bangkok) and it was absolutely fantastic! Thailand still rocks!

Very quiet down here at the moment though isn't it. Not that I'm complaining

[BirdsandBooze]

I think that with huge overdevelopment it 's just not seen as an exotic destination anymore. Europeans can get much the same holiday on the Spanish Costas without the long haul.

[smedly]

It surprises me that so many posters seem to be happy when something negative is published about Thailand. From psychological perspective you could reason that many foreigners residing in Thailand are sour depressed grapes.

I just went on a 10 day holiday in the south of Thailand (I live in Bangkok) and it was absolutely fantastic! Thailand still rocks!

You didn't see any Muslims then?

Maybe he's A Royal Thai Army Ranger and was on a busmens holiday? 5555

Many tourists are still happy visiting the country have you considered that many do their own thing and don't interact much with TAT run issues?

Haters will always hate, and there's thousands of decent locations away from the high octane locations of Pattaya , Phuket and Bangkok, so much to see and visit that 7-10 days would never be enough.

I rarely see "tourists " around Korat and surrounding areas, I can go for days without seeing other farangs in the area too, and yet there's some quality cheap hotels And resorts up here that never see many tourists

I agree with what you say except this topic is about tourism and Korat just doesn't quite qualify, it is a place to visit as I have done and a potential place to live for a quiet life but lets face it - this topic is about tourism and the main areas are....................................not Korat and as you say 7-14 days are not enough to visit and they are making it more difficult for those that want to stay longer - how does that fit into the scope of things I don't know

I have been all the way down the coast from Chonburi to Trat and seen some beautiful underdeveloped spots with clean beaches and crystal water yet they call Pattaya a beach resort with it's filth and dirty water which I have never put my big toe in in 10 years

There is a lot of work to be done and a yearly slogan doesn't cut it - they need to spend some serious money as I posted above to develop this country to what it should be if they want to remain so called top tourist destination in the region - something they should have been doing for the last 30 years, unfortunately all the Thais seem to know about is stuffing their greedy pockets, any business owner will tell you you have got to put some of your profits back in and improve your position as you go - Thailand had a considerable head start on other countries in the region who are now catching up

Not one person that I know that has been here on holiday recently was put off by coups or anything else for that matter - they are looking for value for money and a comfortable clean safe environment and from what they are saying to me they are not getting or it is getting worse from their last visit

Unfortunately it seems nobody in a position here to do something have the insight foresight or vision to actually do something about it - head in the sand with a poster attached to their a&se "wonderful amazing Thailand" with pockets stuffed with money

Edited October 23, 2014 by smedly

[Orac]

The Koh Tao murders have cast a harsh spotlight on the safety of tourism in Thailand which is hugely reliant, like most things, on peoples perceptions. What it has exposed is the lack of care and general relaxed attitude the authorities and others involved in tourism here have towards the safety of foreign visitors. Every incident now is being picked up by the foreign press and, where before it would have had little impact, is now being seen as part of a larger picture be it the recent ferry accident or the tiger mauling in Phuket which is in the uk press today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/thailand/11179252/Tiger-mauls-tourist-in-Phuket-tiger-park.html

I agree with the majority of what you write, but for the latter. One has to be a complete moron to even think of petting a tiger at a zoo - end of!

Too true! The problem is that it is allowed to happen and that the people running such 'attractions' believe they can evade their responsibility by getting tourists to sign some sort of waiver. There will always be people stupid enough to do such things and part of it is down to the naive assumption that , like most developed countries, it wouldn't be allowed if it were unsafe.

[smedly]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thailand needs to lift its game in a more competitive market hot air and empty promises only go so far.

Lets keep in mind the global economy plays in if people have the money to vacation or not. Also the past 10 years of Thailand manipulating the BAHT rate (keeping it strong against the dollar). This past year averaged 30baht where as the Philippine paso averaged 41.

You make a good point. Let's take my experience.

I started organising informal trips in 1999 with a largish group, to play golf for 2/3 weeks.

At that time the pound was around 72 baht. The economics of that can be roughly shown below.

1996

Nice hotel in Pattaya.......700 baht/night for 20 nights. 14000 or 194 (UK)

Golf around Pattaya.........1000 baht (with tip) x 10 10000 or 138 (UK)

Eating/drinking etc (roughly) 2000 a day x 20 40000 or 555 (UK)

Others (Taxi's/trips etc) (roughly) 400 a day x 20 8000 or 111 (UK)

Air fare .....varies I know but about 450 (UK)

Total 1448 (UK)

So you could have a great holiday during the UK winter with all the 'charm' of Thailand at that time.

Now, with the UK pound at 52 (has dropped as low as 46) I would estimate that the same 20 day holiday would cost

Nice hotel in Pattaya 1500 x 20 30000 or 576 (UK)

Golf 2000 x 10 20000 384 (UK)

Eating out etc (guess) 2000 x 20 40000 769 (UK)

Others (Lets say 500 a day) x 20 10000 192 (UK)

Air fare....varies can be around 700-800 with Emirates 750 (UK)

Total 2671 (UK)

Now, I know we could argue those figures all day, (e.g. there are cheaper hotel rooms and maybe you can get better airfares if you fly with Aeroflot etc).

But, this group I used to come with were the quality tourists that Thailand talks about. We had many couples from the golf club.

95% of that group packed it in a few years ago as it was simply too expensive, they might as well go to Spain or Portugal. Plus, the 'magic' of Thailand wears off (as many TVF posters are well aware).

Throw in murders, military coups and the rest and you can see why the 'quality' tourists, at least from the UK are down.(I use that expression loosely, as the TAT seem to love it) When you are spending 5 grand for a couple on holiday you're going to be more selective than previously.

The poster is from the USA I suspect, but the experience may well be the same for his country. I don't know.

I think you have underestimated some items but the main one being Golf (due to the involvement of some falangs creating elevated price structures effectively a cartel) - a days golfing will now cost anything from 5-10k baht - they have ruined it

[Just1Voice]

I live in Chiang Mai, and over the past couple of years I've seen a decline in the "Western" tourist. Not major, but significant enough to affect some small shops and restaurants. For a while it seemed like there were "invading hordes" of Chinese, but even that has been cut back drastically. My wife and I have a couple of friends in the major hotel business, and according to them, their room reservations for high season are down considerably. Some, if not most are blaming the coup and martial law. Maybe, maybe not. Who really knows for sure?

Two tiered pricing. Yeah, it exists just about everywhere in LOS, not just the tourist spots. About the only place I don't find it is when I take trips on my bike and stop at the roadside fruit markets and stands along the highways, where the people are always friendly, and will happily "bargain" with me for a better price. I love 'em.

As others have pointed, Thailand as been at the "top of the heap" for tourist for so long, that they think it is their rightful place, and close there eyes to what is going on around them. Their numbers are declining, while those of Vietnam, Lao, Cambodia, and especially, Myanmar are steadily climbing. I've said it before, but if Myanmar develops their beach front property, which make up 1/3 if their total land mass, in the right way, it will be a knife in the heart of Thailand's "beach holidays". And it's already starting. 5 years and Myanmar will put Thailand to shame. If they do it right.

[Baerboxer]

Maybe just maybe, it has something to do with delivering a second or third class product and charging first class prices??

Can only work for so long!!

The visitors are finally starting to vote with their feet!!

Until the Thais realise, that their arrogance is not a winner, nothing is going to change.

However it is very sad for all the people dependant on the industry for their livelihood!!

Arresting the real culprits on Koh Tao might help??

Yes but the response will be very innovative.

19% reduction in tourists - so put prices up to cover the shortfall, pay lower wages, cut the number of employees, and give less food portions, quality and variety.

That way the 0.1% who control most of the wealth won't suffer loosing many satang. Couldn't have their vast wealth affected.

Only thing here is the rich elite get constantly richer and poor get poorer in real terms, whatever happens.

Clueless but have got away with it for so long.

[TheCruncher]

Maybe just maybe, it has something to do with delivering a second or third class product and charging first class prices??

Can only work for so long!!

The visitors are finally starting to vote with their feet!!

Until the Thais realise, that their arrogance is not a winner, nothing is going to change.

However it is very sad for all the people dependant on the industry for their livelihood!!

Arresting the real culprits on Koh Tao might help??

Yes but the response will be very innovative.

19% reduction in tourists - so put prices up to cover the shortfall, pay lower wages, cut the number of employees, and give less food portions, quality and variety.

That way the 0.1% who control most of the wealth won't suffer loosing many satang. Couldn't have their vast wealth affected.

Only thing here is the rich elite get constantly richer and poor get poorer in real terms, whatever happens.

Clueless but have got away with it for so long.

Stop the presses, everything resolved already.

Airports of Thailand expects 51 million inbound air passengers in this high season from this October to next March, a 11% increment from previous high season. /Bangkok Post

[ginjag]

Maybe just maybe, it has something to do with delivering a second or third class product and charging first class prices??

Can only work for so long!!

The visitors are finally starting to vote with their feet!!

Until the Thais realise, that their arrogance is not a winner, nothing is going to change.

However it is very sad for all the people dependant on the industry for their livelihood!!

Arresting the real culprits on Koh Tao might help??

Yes but the response will be very innovative.

19% reduction in tourists - so put prices up to cover the shortfall, pay lower wages, cut the number of employees, and give less food portions, quality and variety.

That way the 0.1% who control most of the wealth won't suffer loosing many satang. Couldn't have their vast wealth affected.

Only thing here is the rich elite get constantly richer and poor get poorer in real terms, whatever happens.

Clueless but have got away with it for so long.

Stop the presses, everything resolved already.

Airports of Thailand expects 51 million inbound air passengers in this high season from this October to next March, a 11% increment from previous high season. /Bangkok Post

EXPECTS ??? many women expect to get pregnant but do not. TAT figures. AOT figures. Border run/shopping/migrant workers/transit/--I wonder how many the true figure would be IF the persons entering were Thai true tourists for holiday purposes.

[TheCruncher]

Maybe just maybe, it has something to do with delivering a second or third class product and charging first class prices??

Can only work for so long!!

The visitors are finally starting to vote with their feet!!

Until the Thais realise, that their arrogance is not a winner, nothing is going to change.

However it is very sad for all the people dependant on the industry for their livelihood!!

Arresting the real culprits on Koh Tao might help??

Yes but the response will be very innovative.

19% reduction in tourists - so put prices up to cover the shortfall, pay lower wages, cut the number of employees, and give less food portions, quality and variety.

That way the 0.1% who control most of the wealth won't suffer loosing many satang. Couldn't have their vast wealth affected.

Only thing here is the rich elite get constantly richer and poor get poorer in real terms, whatever happens.

Clueless but have got away with it for so long.

Stop the presses, everything resolved already.

Airports of Thailand expects 51 million inbound air passengers in this high season from this October to next March, a 11% increment from previous high season. /Bangkok Post

EXPECTS ??? many women expect to get pregnant but do not. TAT figures. AOT figures. Border run/shopping/migrant workers/transit/--I wonder how many the true figure would be IF the persons entering were Thai true tourists for holiday purposes.

So you doubt that a governmental agency under the control of your so beloved General happiness would speak the truth?

[stoffel45]

If Thailand is the jaded, sinking destination which this article says it is - then why have airlines flying to Thailand got full or nearly full flights in December, April and July?

Yes these are peak months, but they would be the first to experience a "19%" downturn.

Clearly, the airlines are not concerned too much - their prices are sky-high!

Also Hotels don't seem to have softened their prices to entice travellers.

We noticed a drop in Russian tourists in Koh Samui and Pattaya this year.

But this is probably due to the fact that Russky Dad is coming alone or that the Russians know they are just so unpopular they don't feel at all welcome.

[greenchair]

A game of chicken has evolved.

Who will hold out the longest??

the boycott until this is fixed group.

Or--- we are gonna stand our ground til the last evidence falls group.

[TheCruncher]

If Thailand is the jaded, sinking destination which this article says it is - then why have airlines flying to Thailand got full or nearly full flights in December, April and July?

End of June I tried to book a ticket to Europe with China Airlines, and their site claimed the plane was full each and every day between the 1st of July till the 31st of October.

I called them up and they confirmed that it was all fully booked, and so did several travel agencies, so they suggested that I put myself on waiting list.

I did so at a random date, and within 15 minutes I received an email notification from China that both departure date and return date were confirmed. I later changed those dates at least 3 times with immediate confirmation.

Oh, by the way the ticket price was with a 40% discount over the normal price, and they have extended their promotion now till 31 December.

ALL major airlines have similar promotions for the past 4 months.

Clearly, the airlines are not concerned too much - their prices are sky-high!

You should climb from under that rock and look at that other thread in the travel forum. It is titled " I've never seen the prices that LOW"

Edited October 23, 2014 by TheCruncher

[ginjag]

Yes but the response will be very innovative.

19% reduction in tourists - so put prices up to cover the shortfall, pay lower wages, cut the number of employees, and give less food portions, quality and variety.

That way the 0.1% who control most of the wealth won't suffer loosing many satang. Couldn't have their vast wealth affected.

Only thing here is the rich elite get constantly richer and poor get poorer in real terms, whatever happens.

Clueless but have got away with it for so long.

Stop the presses, everything resolved already.

Airports of Thailand expects 51 million inbound air passengers in this high season from this October to next March, a 11% increment from previous high season. /Bangkok Post

EXPECTS ??? many women expect to get pregnant but do not. TAT figures. AOT figures. Border run/shopping/migrant workers/transit/--I wonder how many the true figure would be IF the persons entering were Thai true tourists for holiday purposes.

So you doubt that a governmental agency under the control of your so beloved General happiness would speak the truth?

The government agency has NOT yet been reformed--it has been belching out this BS for years.

Your silly comment re---Quote "my beloved General" is as ick as you can get------WE ALL KNOW about TAT no matter what colour you like to paint people.

[RickeyParkany]

Does the maxim "Any publicity is good publicity" apply in this case?

Only for actors and performers...and these jokers are really bad actors, IMHO... ;-} rap.

[timewilltell]

Like I have said many times on TVF -

If they had been spending even 5% of the tourism revenue they've been earning over the last 30 years back into infrastructure and destinations instead of stuffing all of it into their greedy pockets then just maybe they would now have something to complete with and promote - as it stands because of the lack of forward thinking and extreme greed - Thailands tourist destinations remain as dirty - dangerous - scam ridden - poorly maintained slums that seem to pride themselves on the mistreatment of visitors at every level, it will take a very long time to change this image if that is even possible, not to mention the ever increasing crime rates and the ever increasing serious drug problems - it's a tall order to say the least

Very true. The issue is one of mentality where people celebrate Thais getting one over on the foreigners. Celebration is a good description of that and it emanates from the government's laws, down through the immigration requirements and local administration, police, the courts and legal system and on down to the local scam artist. When you have all those pieces in place there is no one to turn to and no help to be had for a foreigner regardless he or she be a tourist or an expatriate with a family.

Someone else posted something about certain posters relishing anything negative about Thailand. Maybe they feel that way because they are victimized and it is the boy way of releasing those pent up frustrations. Not saying it is right particularly, but there is much wrong with the attitude and treatment of foreigners here purely based on race. In the UK most of these practices would end up with the bully in jail, here they are promoted with a snigger.