Sweden recognises Palestinian state

[Jingthing]

Fatah cheered the kidnapping and murder of 3 Israeli teenagers a few months ago. One can support terrorism while denying it officially. THAT is criminal.

Playing very loose with the facts again.

Playing very open with the DENIAL yet again.

[jacky54]

Palestine is not a country.

http://geography.about.com/od/politicalgeography/a/palestinenot.htm

Quite right and neither is narnia or middle earth but some believe in those places as well! This 'recognises Palestine' nonsense is just as meaningless.

[Ulysses G.]

Fatah cheered the kidnapping and murder of 3 Israeli teenagers a few months ago. One can support terrorism while denying it officially. THAT is criminal.

Playing very loose with the facts again.

This cartoon was on Fatah's Facebook page after the boys were kidnapped. As usual, you are incorrect.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/181726#.VF2lJeWCrfI

Edited November 8, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[up-country_sinclair]

Fatah cheered the kidnapping and murder of 3 Israeli teenagers a few months ago. One can support terrorism while denying it officially. THAT is criminal.

Playing very loose with the facts again.

This cartoon was on Fatah's Facebook page after the boys were kidnapped. As usual, you are incorrect.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/181726#.VF2lJeWCrfI

You posted that Fatah cheered the kidnapping and murder of the 3 Israeli teens.

First of all, I think most of use would agree that a Facebook post is not an official announcement from a political party. But OK, just for the sake of argument let's assume that it is.

The cartoon was uploaded to Facebook before anyone knew the 3 Israelis were dead. This is clear from the link YOU posted. How then can you claim that Fatah "cheered their murder". Why are you posting information that is so clearly refuted in the link YOU provided?

According to previous posts that you've made, this makes you a liar.

The expression "hoist by his own petard" comes to mind.

[Ulysses G.]

You are grasping at straws. It appeared on Fatah's OFFICIAL Facebook page and also in the official Palestinian Authority newspaper. Fatah also passed out sweets to Palestinians along with Hamas to celebrate. They did not take the hateful cartoon down and they did not apologize for it after the kids were found dead. Most normal people would consider that supportive of what the Hamas terrorists did. Fatah also lied and called them "soldiers" to justify the murders, but they were not in the army. They were 3 innocent teenage boys.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[chuckd]

Just a quick question.

Q. What earth shaking event has taken place (outside this forum, that is) since Sweden made this arguably unwise decision?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please permit me to answer my own rhetorical question.

A. Not one blessed thing.

[japsportscarmad]

Just a quick question.

Q. What earth shaking event has taken place (outside this forum, that is) since Sweden made this arguably unwise decision?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please permit me to answer my own rhetorical question.

A. Not one blessed thing.

Its not a rhetorical question when you are incorrect it's a bit daft but not rhetorical.

To explain in very simple terms to anyone of a simple nature.

It's a further step to reducing Israel's ability to wriggle out of it's obligations, you obviously slightly missed the point and a good source of information is the internet. If your stuck let me know and I will direct you to some suitable sites to get a balanced view on the situation. When did you last go to Israel? As a trip there might do you good.

[Ulysses G.]

Just a quick question.

Q. What earth shaking event has taken place (outside this forum, that is) since Sweden made this arguably unwise decision?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please permit me to answer my own rhetorical question.

A. Not one blessed thing.

Nothing at all. A document which means next to nothing and does not change the fact that there is not and never was an Arab "state" of Palestine.

[Ulysses G.]

Of course there was an Israel centuries ago. The Israel haters really do need to read some history.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[chuckd]

Just a quick question.

Q. What earth shaking event has taken place (outside this forum, that is) since Sweden made this arguably unwise decision?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please permit me to answer my own rhetorical question.

A. Not one blessed thing.

Its not a rhetorical question when you are incorrect it's a bit daft but not rhetorical.

To explain in very simple terms to anyone of a simple nature.

It's a further step to reducing Israel's ability to wriggle out of it's obligations, you obviously slightly missed the point and a good source of information is the internet. If your stuck let me know and I will direct you to some suitable sites to get a balanced view on the situation. When did you last go to Israel? As a trip there might do you good.

I've been a member of this forum for 143 MONTHS. You have been a member for 125 DAYS

Don't talk down to me. If you don't have an answer that makes sense, then you might want to keep your flying fingers away from your keyboard.

In answer to your idiotic question, I was last in Israel some 8 years ago for a brief time. I only spent 35 years in the Middle East.

Swedish recognition of Israel doesn't apply any pressure the Israeli government hasn't had from far more influential countries in the past.

Sweden isn't even a blip on their radar.

[up-country_sinclair]

Just a quick question.

Q. What earth shaking event has taken place (outside this forum, that is) since Sweden made this arguably unwise decision?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please permit me to answer my own rhetorical question.

A. Not one blessed thing.

You mean what's happened since Sweden announced this decision 3 or 4 days ago?

Not much for public consumption, but what matters most is what's happening behind the scenes in the corridors of power. Sweden has the well deserved reputation of being honest broker in international affairs, and this decision will compel other EU countries to reconsider their position on this issue. The tide has turned, and It's only a matter of time before the EU officially recognizes Palestine.

[Ulysses G.]

The tide has turned

This has been the Palestinian claim for 66 years now, but they still don't have a country or a pot of their own to piss in. It is empty rhetoric.

[Jingthing]

The tide has turned

This has been the Palestinian claim for 66 years now, but they still don't have a country or a pot of their own to piss in. It is empty rhetoric.

And they COULD have had one all along! Just not attack and try it out. But that would have been no fun for the Arab and Muslim world to not have a scapegoat to divert their populations from internal problems having nothing to do with Jews.

[Seastallion]

The tide has turned

This has been the Palestinian claim for 66 years now, but they still don't have a country or a pot of their own to piss in. It is empty rhetoric.

And they COULD have had one all along! Just not attack and try it out. But that would have been no fun for the Arab and Muslim world to not have a scapegoat to divert their populations from internal problems having nothing to do with Jews.

No doubt they do have internal problems but what you say makes out that Israel does not cause them any problems and is just a scapegoat.

I know you know better than that, so why say such nonsense?

And the "They could have...." is an entirely empty cry.

[Jingthing]

Reread what I said.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Seastallion]

Yes, now you re-read what I wrote.

[Lissos]

and this decision will compel other EU countries to reconsider their position on this issue.

Individual EU members, if this insitution claims not to be a dictatorial jack boot, must be left to indivudally examine the situation there objectively and base their stance on things based on multiple streams of informacy, not from some 'compulsion' domino momentum as if Sweden is our in house exhalted 'enlightened one' to be emulated in all matters of decision making. Especially so, when more than a few people see Sweden as worshipping idealism above any realities on the ground and now paying the price domestically. It seems to me that Sweden is as varied in its opinion on this within politics and within the population, as it is in several parts of Europe now about Immigration and also about Islam within Europe. Objectively, I agree with others here that this recent statement from Sweden is conceptual more than anything, and certainly shouldn't lead to any compulsion upon others.

[Jingthing]

Of course a big question now in the wake of Sweden's folly does that start a trend towards other EU nations joining the Meatball Brigade? Time will tell, but this view out of Germany might some throw icy water on the Israel demonizers hopes.

It is also heartening to hear a powerful voice out of Germany that fully recognizes the anti-semitic nature of hateful attempts to suggest an EQUIVALANCE of modern Israeli government policies and the Nazi regime of Adolph Hitler. Germany -- you've come a long way baby!

We hear such disgusting Jew hating rhetoric (the Israel - Nazi Germany equivalence BIG LIE) so many times in posts on this forum ... be clear about the truth, such speech is hate speech and does not reflect any actual reality.

Yes, OF COURSE it is normal and legitimate to criticize Israel government policies just like ANY country, but the Nazi equivalence gambit is not legitimate.

http://www.jpost.com/International/No-unilateral-recognition-of-Palestinian-state-says-top-German-politician-381202

BERLIN – Philipp Missfelder, a leading German deputy member from Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union party (CDU), rejected moves by Sweden’s government and Britain’s parliament to recognize an independent Palestine State. He told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday that, “To better promote peace in the Middle East, Europe must adopt a united front,” adding, “Individual states unilaterally choosing to recognize Palestine is the wrong approach….Germany will not follow in the steps of Sweden and Britain.”

...

He told the Post, “While there are legitimate criticisms of Israeli policies, Blumenthal is known to invoke consistently anti-Semitic comparisons between Israel and Nazism,” said Beck ahead of the cancellation.

[jdinasia]

When will the Palestinians recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

Not sure how many people know this, but anti-semitic incidents are way up all over Scandinavia.

I guess there is no political price for the leaders there to pay to diss Israel in this way.

When will the Likud party offer that recognition to Palestine? Didn't the PLO and the PA recognize Israel under Arafat?

[Jingthing]

The government of Israel will surely recognize the state of "Palestine" if and when such a state actually exists with negotiations with the state of Israel being part of that creation, not unilateral actions.

[jdinasia]

The government of Israel will surely recognize the state of "Palestine" if and when such a state actually exists with negotiations with the state of Israel being part of that creation, not unilateral actions.

The State of Palestine exists now. The majority of governments in the world have recognized it.

[Jingthing]

The government of Israel will surely recognize the state of "Palestine" if and when such a state actually exists with negotiations with the state of Israel being part of that creation, not unilateral actions.

The State of Palestine exists now. The majority of governments in the world have recognized it.

That's what you think. Somehow I doubt the Palestinians living in Gaza and West Bank actually think they have a real state yet.

Be clear, personally I do want them to have a real state, but they're going to have to deal with Israel, like it or not, or it's not really going to happen EVER.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

The government of Israel will surely recognize the state of "Palestine" if and when such a state actually exists with negotiations with the state of Israel being part of that creation, not unilateral actions.

The State of Palestine exists now. The majority of governments in the world have recognized it.

That's what you think. Somehow I doubt the Palestinians living in Gaza and West Bank actually think they have a real state yet.

Be clear, personally I do want them to have a real state, but they're going to have to deal with Israel, like it or not, or it's not really going to happen EVER.

It certainly won't happen with Likud in power.

And yes they do think that they are a nation. Occupied, but still a nation.

[Jingthing]

It also won't happen with Hamas and Fatah in power ... urging on terrorists and proclaiming them heroes. It takes two to tango, mate. and both sides NEED to deal with each in good faith to get this peace done. Don't hold your breath.

I don't take anyone seriously who proposes the blame here is ONLY on one side.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

Fatah is pretty reasonable. Again they have their roots in the PLO.

I certainly can blame Israel for all the new settlements in Palestinian territory. That blame keeps the desire to fight fresh and empowers HAMAS.

[Lissos]

BERLIN – Philipp Missfelder, a leading German deputy member from Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union party (CDU), rejected moves by Sweden’s government and Britain’s parliament to recognize an independent Palestine State. He told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday that, “To better promote peace in the Middle East, Europe must adopt a united front,” adding, “Individual states unilaterally choosing to recognize Palestine is the wrong approach….Germany will not follow in the steps of Sweden and Britain.”

Yet (I underlined the line in the quote above) this ends up being the same kind of mindset, albeit from another angle.

One side in this is demanding a Europe wide stance on this by intending to brow beat other states with coercsion based on some kind of - "setting an example" trend mindset, and the other side is demanding that no infact there should be a united stance across Europe in the sense of believing that every state should put away individual opinions. In both cases, varying decisions from individual states are being viewing as a dangerous by both sides, but for different reasons. For the former, it is because they have a political agenda they want to force through and fear that other states may possibly not going along with it. For the later, because independent decision making by states goes against what they believe the EU should be.

[Jingthing]

Fatah is pretty reasonable. Again they have their roots in the PLO.

I certainly can blame Israel for all the new settlements in Palestinian territory. That blame keeps the desire to fight fresh and empowers HAMAS.

Fatah is not as reasonable as you suggest. Recently urging on terrorists in Jerusalem and proclaiming them as heroes.

[Jingthing]

BERLIN – Philipp Missfelder, a leading German deputy member from Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union party (CDU), rejected moves by Sweden’s government and Britain’s parliament to recognize an independent Palestine State. He told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday that, “To better promote peace in the Middle East, Europe must adopt a united front,” adding, “Individual states unilaterally choosing to recognize Palestine is the wrong approach….Germany will not follow in the steps of Sweden and Britain.”

Yet (I underlined the line in the quote above) this ends up being the same kind of mindset, albeit from another angle.

One side in this is demanding a Europe wide stance on this by intending to brow beat other states with coercsion based on some kind of - "setting an example" trend mindset, and the other side is demanding that no infact there should be a united stance across Europe in the sense of believing that every state should put away individual opinions. In both cases, varying decisions from individual states are being viewing as a dangerous by both sides, but for different reasons. For the former, it is because they have a political agenda they want to force through and fear that other states may possibly not going along with it. For the later, because independent decision making by states goes against what they believe the EU should be.

Perhaps, and indeed they may provide a unified front if peace negotiations don't move forward quickly enough, so that might happen ... but still it won't be real until there is a real deal with Israel, so the intent will be to apply pressure. Both sides do have to give but neither side enjoys great leadership at the moment.

[Ulysses G.]

Fatah is pretty reasonable. Again they have their roots in the PLO.

I certainly can blame Israel for all the new settlements in Palestinian territory. That blame keeps the desire to fight fresh and empowers HAMAS.

Fatah is not as reasonable as you suggest. Recently urging on terrorists in Jerusalem and proclaiming them as heroes.

Fatah is only "reasonable" when compared to Hamas.

The Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades are the military wing of Fatah. They are responsible for a number of terrorist attacks, including shooting rockets at Israel from Gaza last summer. Fatah and Hamas are two sides of the same coin. They cooperate fully in Gaza; there is no way Fatah terror groups could have smuggled Grad rockets without Hamas' knowledge or assistance. They both support terror explicitly.

The world is so wedded to the idea that Fatah represent the "good guys" and that they are "peace partners" that these facts are purposely downplayed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gztfUPYazFE#t=92

[Jingthing]

In any case, still the most popular party currently in Gaza AND West Bank is indeed HAMAS.