Koh Tao murders: Lawyer expresses doubts over new DNA test offer

[bangrak]

The truth in this case is not an endangered species but sadly an extinct species.

How many more distortions of the truth and perversions of justice are the Thai police farce force going to enact in their attempts to deny their total ineptness in an ongoing saga to protect their stipends no doubt.

Certainly their Police farce force reputation is in more shreds than Maggie Maes drawers ( Matelots song version)

I agree. However, it's not merely a case of 'stipends' bribes. They truly ARE that bloody inept. Hesitating with 'stupid' only because after all these years and experience, not all are stupid. Just IGNORANT. Difference.

Hey! You with Thai wives will understand, no?

My educated, and sensible, Thai wife, is the first person who has been warning me for the Thai Police, later to be confirmed by Thai relatives who are officers of some level in the RTP, Thais are not all dumbasses, mind you, but they have learned the hard way there is nothing they can do to change anything to 'the system', even the highest authorities won't burn their fingers on it, as we have seen after the euphory of May 22nd.

[bangrak]

We must all stay modest and cautious:it is a very difficult inquiry!No material proofs,no witness!!!!!

It would be a very hard work for any police...even a western one....

Not really. An island surrounded by miles of ocean that nobody could get on or off; a crime scene only hours old; a raft of DNA evidence; a slew of witnesses who were with the victims until just before they were killed; cc tv footage; etc; etc; etc....

And they STILL managed to make a horse's backside of the investigation - turning it into a shoddy Thai soap. They didn't even secure the crime scene for pity's sake! What a shower of clowns!

Sorry, we not expect Pharangs and international press bite into it so hard, never happen before, we just do same-same we do normal, and big pressure from the top, use anything you want, rap it up leo-leo, Thai cannot lose face, so we must 's..t it up' like that, no choice (such reaction being of course purely a creation of my imagination).

[bangrak]

We must all stay modest and cautious:it is a very difficult inquiry!No material proofs,no witness!!!!!

It would be a very hard work for any police...even a western one....

Not really. An island surrounded by miles of ocean that nobody could get on or off; a crime scene only hours old; a raft of DNA evidence; a slew of witnesses who were with the victims until just before they were killed; cc tv footage; etc; etc; etc....

And they STILL managed to make a horse's backside of the investigation - turning it into a shoddy Thai soap. They didn't even secure the crime scene for pity's sake! What a shower of clowns!

Sorry, we not expect Pharangs and international press bite into it so hard, never happen before, we just do same-same we do normal, and big pressure from the top, use anything you want, rap it up leo-leo, Thai cannot lose face, so we must 's..t it up' like that, no choice (such reaction being of course purely a creation of my imagination).

[JOC]

So now even Thai lawyers doubt the integrity of the Thai police!!

Welcome to the club!!

They always have!

I believe more that the lawyer is worry that a new dna test Show again that they done it.

As a lawyer him must do the best for his Clients. Innocent or not!!!

If the RTP already have their samples, how could a second test show, they are more guilty??

The truth is, that the police have screwed up this case so badly, so sooner or later they have to let the two Myanmar guys free. Guilty or not!!

And that is the really sad thing, because that will mean no closure for the families of the victims!!

[JOC]

We must all stay modest and cautious:it is a very difficult inquiry!No material proofs,no witness!!!!!

It would be a very hard work for any police...even a western one....

Not really. An island surrounded by miles of ocean that nobody could get on or off; a crime scene only hours old; a raft of DNA evidence; a slew of witnesses who were with the victims until just before they were killed; cc tv footage; etc; etc; etc....

And they STILL managed to make a horse's backside of the investigation - turning it into a shoddy Thai soap. They didn't even secure the crime scene for pity's sake! What a shower of clowns!

Sorry, we not expect Pharangs and international press bite into it so hard, never happen before, we just do same-same we do normal, and big pressure from the top, use anything you want, rap it up leo-leo, Thai cannot lose face, so we must 's..t it up' like that, no choice (such reaction being of course purely a creation of my imagination).

Your imagination is sadly very close to reality!!

[thailandchilli]

So now even Thai lawyers doubt the integrity of the Thai police!!

Welcome to the club!!

They always have!

I believe more that the lawyer is worry that a new dna test Show again that they done it.

As a lawyer him must do the best for his Clients. Innocent or not!!!

If the RTP already have their samples, how could a second test show, they are more guilty??

The truth is, that the police have screwed up this case so badly, so sooner or later they have to let the two Myanmar guys free. Guilty or not!!

And that is the really sad thing, because that will mean no closure for the families of the victims!!

Yes sad for the family and dangerous for visitors to Koh Tao while there are potentially killers still on the loose

[bangrak]

If the UK Police will interview the suspect without restriction, its can obtain material for a DNA testing very easily and with discretion to compare with its have in the UK (if its have it)...but..the question is what its can do with that results, even if that does not match.

You, like many others here, still don't get it, do you? The issue is with the DNA material to compare these potential new samples with! Of course, it is most important new samples are collected and analysed with all possible guarantees, but, it are the samples which we are told were collected from the poor female victim, and one cigarette bud(!), as anyway none seem to have been collected from the male victim, the garden hoe, phones, rooms, etc., zilch, nada, nothing, and who, how, when, where those were collected, according to 'the other paper' it even seems the material used to compare with is from 'the crime scene', not even from the licensed pothologists performing the post mortem... You can have Scotland Yard, the FBI, anyone doing tests now, but the evidence of reference they will have to base their conclusions can hardly be considered trustworthy! ...Or you must tell you have a total confidence in 'the job' the RTP has done so far. Well, sorry, but no, I can't. Or... Scotland Yard would have performed another post mortem on the victims when their remains arrived in the UK and be 100% convinced they were still able to collect genuine, untampered with, samples, that would of course be a totally different ballgame, but did they? I didn't hear anything about it yet.

[JOC]

Related!!

The prosecutors have just returned the case to the police for the 4th time!!

[bangrak]

So now even Thai lawyers doubt the integrity of the Thai police!!

Welcome to the club!!

They always have!

I believe more that the lawyer is worry that a new dna test Show again that they done it.

As a lawyer him must do the best for his Clients. Innocent or not!!!

Khun mai kodjai lawyer, DNA, ..., kap, mai pen rai kap Khun, Pharang bah Khun

[bangrak]

You can test them a million times if you want, but unless the reference sample has come from Miss Witheridge, you may as well not bother.

Does the UK police have access to independent DNA samples taken from Hannah's body? I never read that they do. But the body is in England and you would think it's easy to obtain.

Where did you ever hear anything about 'independent DNA samples taken from Hannah's body', please?

[mataleo]

Can do but not really..

[Baerboxer]

Really Sherlock. That's why there are many unsolved murders on most police forces' lists of unsolved crimes. Many old "cold cases" now being revisited in light of technological advance such as DNA, with some very old cases being solved and the killer(s) brought to justice.

Solved in a month - based on what? You telling them who did it?

Take your head from where the sun don't shine. The police investigation file has not been made public so we don't really know what they have and haven't done. We know the crime scene wasn't isolated, that some officers made all sorts of comments and some posted inappropriate photos. Several leads / potential suspects were announced. Where these all investigated thoroughly - no idea, but the British Police will have now.

Police work isn't like all those wonderful American TV shows where the guilty get caught every week.

Yes, really, next!

In fact it should of been solved inside 12 hours! Put your brain in gear and think about it! Let me give you a clue. A Thai guy was caught VERY quickly in a scenario while not the same, has similarities!

What are you on about? Do have any proof of anything?

Or just a furtive imagination?

[chrislarsson]

Then how can it be confirmed independently that the DNA samples come from Miss Witheridge's body and belong to the killers?

This can be confirmed easy. Today they can check where the DNA comes from. vagina, mouth, blood,...!!!

I'm sure the Brit Cops have a DNA check from Miss Witheridge's body.

If that's the case they can just send DNA samples from the two Burmese suspects to UK. That will end the debate, and confidence in the Thai police can be restored or at least improved.

[rudolfvaselino]

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What a depressing state of affairs

To clean this country up and make the population happy, one should replace:

-1- entire government

-2- entire police force

-3- entire court system with its people

It is rotten into its bones.

[chrislarsson]

You can test them a million times if you want, but unless the reference sample has come from Miss Witheridge, you may as well not bother.

Does the UK police have access to independent DNA samples taken from Hannah's body? I never read that they do. But the body is in England and you would think it's easy to obtain.

Where did you ever hear anything about 'independent DNA samples taken from Hannah's body', please?

i never heard about it. But should that not be possible? There should still be semen left from the killers after her body was sent home.

[slim]

As there are no independant witnesses as to where the DNA has been taken from, what is the point of all this.

A stupid as the Thai Police are, even they aren't going to make DNA taken from the victims available.

They'll make the DNA taken from the scapegoats available to one and all.

Of course the DNA from the headmans son doesn't match.

How could it?

The original samples from the victims would have been destroyed long ago.

[Luang]

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What a depressing state of affairs

To clean this country up and make the population happy, one should replace:

-1- entire government

-2- entire police force

-3- entire court system with its people

It is rotten into its bones.

The most succinct and possibly accurate account I've read on here for a while. However, it must be said: 1. has been tried several times and look where we are! So, may need a rethink:)

[Trouble]

Can anyone tell me whether the supposed DNA match was from the cigarettes or from the victim? I'm confused, but then so are the police.

[asdecas]

I sat at a bus stop on Sathorn today and discussed this case with a middle aged Thai man; call him Khun Everyman. Without prompting, he expressed disbelief in these Burmese boys' guilt.

Is there even one person, apart from vested parties, Thai or foreign, who has any confidence in the RTP's handling of this case from day one?

I doubt it.

[CWMcMurray]

What happened to the UK police? Who cares what any RTP do in this case? They've effed it up from the beginning. Tell us what the UK Police, the real police, have to say.

Likely they do not have anything to say... Other than.. They are reviewing the details and that it is an ongoing investigation, so can not release details...

At least to the public ... They will of course have a more detailed report to their superiors, but is up to the politicians on what they will release or not to the public

[jdinasia]

Brilliant, the only piece of evidence submitted to the prosecutors by the police was DNA!!

The perfect case rapped up is just being unwrapped for the world to see as a complete farce

And their report was 800 pages long

hmm...no witnesses to the DNA collection....the judge will love that! I'd think I'd be politely declining the General's offer of new tests, in light of this information.

Huh???

[MJP]

This isn't aimed at any particular poster, but can I please reiterate the Thai Visa forum rules, in particular rule 11.

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Please everyone, do be careful what you post. Please don't use names when discussing possible perpetrators of these murders.

Moderating the Koh Tao topics has become like walking a tightrope for us mods, who do this on a voluntary basis. We all want to see real justice as the outcome of this case. But at the same time we have to be aware of Thailand's rather draconian libel laws which are covered under criminal law as well as civil. This is the reason we have to keep removing posts that link the CSI LA Facebook page and we have to keep to boring old mainstream media reports.

This really isn't easy. We honestly don't want to endlessly remove posts. We are not complicit in any sort of bizarre cover up. But we do have to protect the forum and the people who post here.

If anyone has any questions about this, please PM me rather than replying to this post.

Many thanks,

MJP

[Dogmatix]

So now even Thai lawyers doubt the integrity of the Thai police!!

Welcome to the club!!

Will the lawyers be charged under the Computer Crimes Act?

[Dogmatix]

Actually I was under the impression they had already had two rounds of DNA testing with the first one proving negative. But I think I get the gist of the lawyers. Since the confessions and the statement by former witness, Maung Maung, were retracted, the DNA match seems to the only substantial evidence the police have left, unless they have something else they didn't publicise. Having the tests repeated under conditions controlled by the Thai authorities would probably only make it harder to challenge the evidence as unreliable in the view of the lawyers. It would be better to let the police insist on re-testing, themselves, if they want to do it, which would imply that the police feared some irregularities in their own testing. Then the lawyers could make a demand to let British experts do tests simultaneously and compare with samples they have in the UK, if they have them. There is certainly no upside to another dog and pony show like the one yesterday but featuring the two suspects this time.

[BritTim]

What happened to the UK police? Who cares what any RTP do in this case? They've effed it up from the beginning. Tell us what the UK Police, the real police, have to say.

The UK police are observing and asking questions. Although frustrating, do not expect any public statements from them before the inquest in January except as a last resort. Unlike the RTP, UK police forces are not in the habit of trying to demonstrate guilt or innocence through the media. They are also cognizant of the fact that they are in Thailand and the responsibility (whether they are competent or not) lies with the Thai authorities. To interfere unless invited to do so, would be a gross violation of international protocol. Only if they were 100% convinced that an irreparable miscarriage of justice was imminent (and cleared at the top levels of the UK government) would such a violation be considered.

[DarloKnight]

Are the UK police still n Thailand does anyone know? They will not release any info until at least the deceased families know, I personally do not know what the protocol is on this kind of incident.

[joecoolfrog]

I long since stated that I expected the Case against the Burmese would collapse and everything would then grind to a halt. A cynic might suggest that has always been plan B , a cynic might also say that it would be a good result for certain parties. I of course would never suggest such a thing , I wouldnt want the RTP to feel sad.

[Si Thea01]

The British Police are most likely to be like the rest of us. Threatened with arrest and criminal charges if anything detrimental is said about this matter or others involved. I was under the impression that DNA resting is a complex matter and has to be handled by experts in that field. If urgent it usually takes 72 hours before results but if complex can take much longer. Was anyone overseeing these tests.

[Strangebrew]

You mean Somchai the janitor didn't appear and state he did collection of DNA ?

[Seastallion]

You can test them a million times if you want, but unless the reference sample has come from Miss Witheridge, you may as well not bother.

Indeed. And now that the KT headman's son has given his tissue sample, his is now in the system. Would it be just too easy to get his sample and the prisoner's sample mixed up?

The police may yet get conclusive DNA evidence of the culprit.