Will I be breaking any visa/laws doing this?

[aussieinthailand]

Not really sure were this post should be as asking a few separate questions though they are linked.

Is investing in the stock market considered working?

is buying and selling shares and commodities considered working?

Basically if were to buy and sell and object and then it makes a profit as a privet person, could that be considered working?

I don't like to hold money in a bank other than visa requirements and living expenses as the interest rate here is not a good return on money over time,

Nor is keeping it in a bank at OZ due to being a non resident of OZ the taxes on interest make it also a poor investment option.

If I do this as a hobby really a time waster, literally 10 mins a day but it also makes a profit, Am I breaking any rules /laws

I am retired but not of retirement visa age here and choose not to work so I live here on a married visa with required money in bank.

My investment choices have proven over long and short periods of time are really quite good so I'd like to start doing again here I'm not trying to navigate around rules here but I don't want to break any rules and jeopardize my residency.

This is not a troll and not looking for investors, just looking for some answers for my own info and peace of mind.

If anyone can give me facts (not guess work) or point me in the right direction that would be appreciated.

Cheers

[SheungWan]

No, not treated as working.

[neverdie]

Just a quick question.

Re: Bank interest and tax in Oz and your statement,

"

Nor is keeping it in a bank at OZ due to being a non resident of OZ the taxes on interest make it also a poor investment option. "

What sort of tax do you expect to pay? 10% flat is pretty cheap.

[NanLaew]

No debate needed. Carry on doing what you describe to make a living here in Thailand. There are probably several hundred doing the same or similar with no repercussions.

It only gets silly when some start to demand special immigration status for 'non traditional' work and associated personal revenue streams like the OP's.

[ATF]

You're completely clear but I would make sure your trading accounts are organized through Hong Kong to avoid tax liabilities.

[aussieinthailand]

Just a quick question.

Re: Bank interest and tax in Oz and your statement,

"

Nor is keeping it in a bank at OZ due to being a non resident of OZ the taxes on interest make it also a poor investment option. "

What sort of tax do you expect to pay? 10% flat is pretty cheap.

In answer to your question,

yep 10% is pretty cheap but when the interest I make on it then the taxable amount is not justifiable IMO, cost to benefit to me by the government being a non resident and still paying taxes.

I have a bank account here in Thailand that pays 0% tax,

cheers

[khunPer]

»Is investing in the stock market considered working?

is buying and selling shares and commodities considered working?«

Not (working) to my knowledge, as long as it’s you private funds you play around with – lot’s of foreigners seems to do that.

»Basically if were to buy and sell and object and then it makes a profit as a privet person, could that be considered working?«

That might be working, but might also be depending of what you buy and sell, and how often – if it looks like a “business”, you for sure need a Work Permit (or Company set-up). There have been some cases at Phuket with people working on private boat, motorbike and house – if that’s for private use only, they are allowed, if they sell the boat, motorbike or house that is work and illegal without a WP (presume it may be a question if you keep and use the boat, bike or house for a number of years before selling it).

[neverdie]

Just a quick question.

Re: Bank interest and tax in Oz and your statement,

"

Nor is keeping it in a bank at OZ due to being a non resident of OZ the taxes on interest make it also a poor investment option. "

What sort of tax do you expect to pay? 10% flat is pretty cheap.

In answer to your question,

yep 10% is pretty cheap but when the interest I make on it then the taxable amount is not justifiable IMO, cost to benefit to me by the government being a non resident and still paying taxes.

I have a bank account here in Thailand that pays 0% tax,

cheers

I more than understand the point you are making. Sorry to waste your time.

[Greg Nixon]

They consider it working if you take a Thai person's job. If you have a Thai business visa you are not allowed to take a Thai job but you can hire Thai people to do the work. You can invest abroad as much as you like.

[khunPer]

Just a quick question.

Re: Bank interest and tax in Oz and your statement,

"

Nor is keeping it in a bank at OZ due to being a non resident of OZ the taxes on interest make it also a poor investment option. "

What sort of tax do you expect to pay? 10% flat is pretty cheap.

In answer to your question,

yep 10% is pretty cheap but when the interest I make on it then the taxable amount is not justifiable IMO, cost to benefit to me by the government being a non resident and still paying taxes.

I have a bank account here in Thailand that pays 0% tax,

cheers

I more than understand the point you are making. Sorry to waste your time.

OP: 0% tax on normal savings account that shall pay around 0.5% interest p.a.

Fixed accounts that pays from 1.5% up to 2.5% p.a. depending of term, 15% withholding tax (more than OZ). Account as special offers you can have higher interest, today 3.12% p.a. for 2 month fixed, min. 500k, max. 10m, but minus 15% tax.

Fund Book account in bonds pays normally little more interest than 12 month fixed and no withholding tax, but that’s an investment with a (slightly) higher risk than fixed bank deposit.

Edit: You can claim withholding tax back, if you have no other Thai income, or Thai income is below the tax-free allowance.

Edited November 23, 2014 by khunPer

[Si Thea01]

Just a quick question.

Re: Bank interest and tax in Oz and your statement,

"

Nor is keeping it in a bank at OZ due to being a non resident of OZ the taxes on interest make it also a poor investment option. "

What sort of tax do you expect to pay? 10% flat is pretty cheap.

Yes, it's 10%. Don't mind as there funds are there for a rainy day.

[Wasa]

They consider it working if you take a Thai person's job. If you have a Thai business visa you are not allowed to take a Thai job but you can hire Thai people to do the work. You can invest abroad as much as you like.

Not really correct, it's not to do with taking Thai jobs, except in certain occupations. You can do the same work as a thai in a lot of industries if you first obtain a business visa and then a work permit in order to work legally (in non restricted work categories) either via a sponsoring company or forming your own thai limited company. Either option requires the hiring of four thais per alien work permit.

The intent of work permits was to control alien workers and reserve certain occupations for the Thai labour force. You can understand it I guess otherwise every farang man and his dog would be over here working at some point even if the wages are so much lower.....

The definition of work in Thailand from the Thai MOL is "to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits" which pretty much covers every scenario you can dream up.

[SheungWan]

They consider it working if you take a Thai person's job. If you have a Thai business visa you are not allowed to take a Thai job but you can hire Thai people to do the work. You can invest abroad as much as you like.

Doesn't apply to the OP's question.

[SheungWan]

You're completely clear but I would make sure your trading accounts are organized through Hong Kong to avoid tax liabilities.

Unnecessary.

[DogNo1]

Well, you're lucky if you can dodge the Oz tax by trading here. Americans have to pay US tax on their income no matter where they live and the new FBAR and FATCA requirements are designed to catch tax dodgers. Personally, I always pay my taxes honestly. The IRS has extraordinary power if they decide to go after you. Actually, a 10% tax is reasonable compared to the American minimum tax of 15% on qualified dividends. Non-qualified dividends are treated as regular income. I have to pay 35% on mine.

[koolbreez]

It doesn't require a work permit, but it could require paying Thai income tax, if you stay legal. Money made in Thailand is taxable, be it interest, profit from a sale, etc. I believe stock broker is one of the restricted professions, reserved for Thais only, but you wouldn't be selling to other private parties so that wouldn't apply. Form PIT 90 does have a box to report interest, share of profits, and dividends, so you might want to get a taxpayer identification number and file taxes to stay legal.

[KonaRain]

Someone was posting about stocks being a better place for funds than banks for quick repatriation.

Hope to visit soon.

Aloha

[aussieinthailand]

Just a quick question.

Re: Bank interest and tax in Oz and your statement,

"

Nor is keeping it in a bank at OZ due to being a non resident of OZ the taxes on interest make it also a poor investment option. "

What sort of tax do you expect to pay? 10% flat is pretty cheap.

In answer to your question,

yep 10% is pretty cheap but when the interest I make on it then the taxable amount is not justifiable IMO, cost to benefit to me by the government being a non resident and still paying taxes.

I have a bank account here in Thailand that pays 0% tax,

cheers

I more than understand the point you are making. Sorry to waste your time.

OP: 0% tax on normal savings account that shall pay around 0.5% interest p.a.

Fixed accounts that pays from 1.5% up to 2.5% p.a. depending of term, 15% withholding tax (more than OZ). Account as special offers you can have higher interest, today 3.12% p.a. for 2 month fixed, min. 500k, max. 10m, but minus 15% tax.

Fund Book account in bonds pays normally little more interest than 12 month fixed and no withholding tax, but that’s an investment with a (slightly) higher risk than fixed bank deposit.

Edit: You can claim withholding tax back, if you have no other Thai income, or Thai income is below the tax-free allowance.

Yup got an account here with 2.9% 0% tax fixed for 9 months, and regular savings account for living expenses, fixed term at higher interest in OZ pays 10% tax pulse account keeping fees so as I said cost to benefit is a poor option. I guess I could just stick it under the mattress.

Seems there is a lot of differing opinions on this question, I guess I'll try the ask a lawyer on TV but didn't get an answer to my last question so don't hold out to much hope there.

Thanks anyway guy's cheers.

[neverdie]

Just a quick question.

Re: Bank interest and tax in Oz and your statement,

"

Nor is keeping it in a bank at OZ due to being a non resident of OZ the taxes on interest make it also a poor investment option. "

What sort of tax do you expect to pay? 10% flat is pretty cheap.

In answer to your question,

yep 10% is pretty cheap but when the interest I make on it then the taxable amount is not justifiable IMO, cost to benefit to me by the government being a non resident and still paying taxes.

I have a bank account here in Thailand that pays 0% tax,

cheers

I more than understand the point you are making. Sorry to waste your time.

OP: 0% tax on normal savings account that shall pay around 0.5% interest p.a.

Fixed accounts that pays from 1.5% up to 2.5% p.a. depending of term, 15% withholding tax (more than OZ). Account as special offers you can have higher interest, today 3.12% p.a. for 2 month fixed, min. 500k, max. 10m, but minus 15% tax.

Fund Book account in bonds pays normally little more interest than 12 month fixed and no withholding tax, but thats an investment with a (slightly) higher risk than fixed bank deposit.

Edit: You can claim withholding tax back, if you have no other Thai income, or Thai income is below the tax-free allowance.

Yup got an account here with 2.9% 0% tax fixed for 9 months, and regular savings account for living expenses, fixed term at higher interest in OZ pays 10% tax pulse account keeping fees so as I said cost to benefit is a poor option. I guess I could just stick it under the mattress.

Seems there is a lot of differing opinions on this question, I guess I'll try the ask a lawyer on TV but didn't get an answer to my last question so don't hold out to much hope there.

Thanks anyway guy's cheers.

I've got some loose change sitting with one Aussie bank ATM, on call at 4.05%, even after 10% taken out! it's 3.65 & even more if you consider the fact it's calculated daily, paid monthly, no account fees and many of these those of accounts can now be opened online to snag introductory rates.

Just saying. 4.05 @ 10% tax beats 2.9% with no tax any day.....but it will hardly set the world on fire, I do realise.

[siampolee]

You should have no qualms at all regarding your activities,all normal domestic financial activities thus no work permit would or should be be needed.

Sleep sound abed at night without a fear of that ''Knock upon the door."

No work permit needed, thus no law(s) broken

[pkspeaker]

you are fine investing in the thai stockmarket, even if you are daytrading all day-its your personal finances and is allowed.

also no capital gains tax but when they pass that new property tax law, equities will be taxed

Edited November 24, 2014 by pkspeaker

[aussieinthailand]

Thanks people, I feel better that I'm playing by the rules and seems all is well.

cheers

[Nuddy]

Thanks to all those who seriously answered the OP question.

But really you can do anything in Thailand until you get caught.

How to avoid getting caught ids really the question

First up keep a low profile.

Have money in the Bank sufficient for your Visa

Have cash on hand to meet tea money requests.

And again keep a low profile...drink at home ..don't give your woman too much baht that she lords it up and so on.

Don't drive around in a flashy car honking at the temples

Keep the lights low and the gate shut

Regards

[Friendly Stranger]

Lets put it this way. If they ask at the boarder how you intend to support yourself, don't say day trading or what not or explain how it works.

And don't voluntarily tell anyone unless on TV lol, as someone may contact the authorities. You are not doing anything wrong, but just don't give anyone reason to inconvenience or put you on the map.

[iamariva1957]

No just keep on going with what you are doing. Just do not climb on the roof and shout about how much money you just made!