Michael Brown shooting: Ferguson jury reaches verdict

[chuckd]

<>snip>

Try these for facts.

The Ferguson police chief and Wilson's shift sergeant in charge at the time of the whole incident said Wilson did not know of Michael Brown in the store prior to Wilson accosting Brown for the serious criminal activity of jaywalking. They later changed their story.

Wilson disappeared immediately after the shooting and after his well publicized and very brief visit to the hospital immediately afterward. The well publicized photo taken at the hospital of Wilson's cheek looks like Brown gave him a hickey!

Wilson secretly disappeared with the assistance of the Ferguson PD, which means Wilson fled not only the scene but the whole of the community. Other people who have to live by the laws call a person of such behaviors a fugitive, and the people who aid and assist them accomplices after the fact. Wilson's location and purposes, activities, were shielded from the public by the Ferguson Police Department, the Prosecutor, the investigators.

Black elected officials in Ferguson and in St Louis county were not advised of Wilson's location or of his purposes. The Feds on the scene had no direct jurisdiction in the matter so Wilson remained holed up. His secret location and purposes were protected by all of the authorities in Ferguson and in St. Louis county. .

Wilson had more than a week to make confidential contacts while he was underground, from getting attorneys to talking on the phone or personally with anyone who would listen and offer legal and other advice.

Wilson's FPD Incident Report was filed only well after the killing and a considerable time after Wilson surfaced from hiding. The Incident Section of the FPD incident Report was left blank. The Incident Report remains locked away and unavailable to the public.

I could go on.....

Perhaps that reward issued by the New Black Panther Party for Wilson's whereabouts and the many death threats he was receiving on social media might have influenced his desire to stay out of the public eye.

Would you have been dancing a jig on Ferguson city hall lawn at noon each Friday if you were under the same pressures?

My guess is the authorities of Ferguson knew exactly where he was at all times. That they chose not to inform you of his whereabouts can only be considered prudent on their part.

The post completely circumvents the points I made.

The post has four sentences, each of which attempt to move away from each and all of the points I presented. The post is an attempt to deflect from the points I raised.

The post consumes broadband width and does nothing else, which is unfortunate but it is typical of those who defend Darren Wilson's escape and evasion approach which was fully supported by the officials of Ferguson and St Louis county.

As Richard Nixon learned during the Watergate investigations and hearings, perps can hide from the crimes they commit but it is the coverup that almost always seals their fate. The coverup in Ferguson was and continues to be large, comprehensive, thorough, but too many people are not fooled by it.

Robert McCulloch's press conference was the presentation of a defense attorney and the grand jury was directed by none other than MuCulloch. The grand jurors did as they were instructed to do. It's an axiom of American jurisprudence that a prosecutor points, the grand jury indicts. McCulloch never pointed except at Michael Brown. McCulloch refused the governor's request to recuse himself from the case due to of a conflict of interest, which is why we are here today.

Yes, the New Black Panther Party is indeed in Ferguson and we hear regularly about the fact. Many Black Panthers have been arrested,which is good. It is however a little reported or discussed fact that the kKK is in Ferguson to support of Darren Wilson and that none of the KKK have been arrested. Needless to say I defend neither. At the same time however I don't ignore either.

Since I was not in journalism for 40 years, as others have claimed, you will have to excuse my inability to pick up on the finer nuances of writing misdirection.

However it would appear all of your four points were based on the alleged disappearance of Wilson and his inability to present himself as you indicate and so desperately desired.

My first and third sentences explain why Wilson, and the local Ferguson authorities, thought it best for him to be unavailable for the press to chase around and the New Black Panthers to harm.

Your flailing around a tad too much.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

Were you there or are "you" -as much as "we"- basing your judgement on either version of the "truth"?

I was not there. The medical and forensic investigators who testified before the grand jury were there. The grand jury members were there to hear 60 witnesses and to see all available evidence.

You on the other hand continue to repeat things which were refuted by ballistic evidence, medical and scene investigation and expert testimony. You have NO interest in the real evidence.

Wilson shot brown in the hand while Wilson was reaching inside his police car.

The next time Wilson shot Brown, Brown was facing him at a distance of eight to twelve feet as proven by ballistics experts who can determine the distance of a shot.

Brown's arms were not up because he was facing Wilson at that close distance and three shots hit him in a downward trajectory in the front of his right arm. One bullet grazed his neck from the front, one hit him just above the eye and one hit him in the top of the head.

Officers are trained that if they must shoot, to keep shooting until the perp is neutralized. That's what Wilson did.

Now, stop your nonsense, please. Link to the facts from the Washington Post.

"The physical evidence in the Michael Brown case supported the officer"

[Publicus]

<>snip>

Try these for facts.

The Ferguson police chief and Wilson's shift sergeant in charge at the time of the whole incident said Wilson did not know of Michael Brown in the store prior to Wilson accosting Brown for the serious criminal activity of jaywalking. They later changed their story.

Wilson disappeared immediately after the shooting and after his well publicized and very brief visit to the hospital immediately afterward. The well publicized photo taken at the hospital of Wilson's cheek looks like Brown gave him a hickey!

Wilson secretly disappeared with the assistance of the Ferguson PD, which means Wilson fled not only the scene but the whole of the community. Other people who have to live by the laws call a person of such behaviors a fugitive, and the people who aid and assist them accomplices after the fact. Wilson's location and purposes, activities, were shielded from the public by the Ferguson Police Department, the Prosecutor, the investigators.

Black elected officials in Ferguson and in St Louis county were not advised of Wilson's location or of his purposes. The Feds on the scene had no direct jurisdiction in the matter so Wilson remained holed up. His secret location and purposes were protected by all of the authorities in Ferguson and in St. Louis county. .

Wilson had more than a week to make confidential contacts while he was underground, from getting attorneys to talking on the phone or personally with anyone who would listen and offer legal and other advice.

Wilson's FPD Incident Report was filed only well after the killing and a considerable time after Wilson surfaced from hiding. The Incident Section of the FPD incident Report was left blank. The Incident Report remains locked away and unavailable to the public.

I could go on.....

Perhaps that reward issued by the New Black Panther Party for Wilson's whereabouts and the many death threats he was receiving on social media might have influenced his desire to stay out of the public eye.

Would you have been dancing a jig on Ferguson city hall lawn at noon each Friday if you were under the same pressures?

My guess is the authorities of Ferguson knew exactly where he was at all times. That they chose not to inform you of his whereabouts can only be considered prudent on their part.

The post completely circumvents the points I made.

The post has four sentences, each of which attempt to move away from each and all of the points I presented. The post is an attempt to deflect from the points I raised.

The post consumes broadband width and does nothing else, which is unfortunate but it is typical of those who defend Darren Wilson's escape and evasion approach which was fully supported by the officials of Ferguson and St Louis county.

As Richard Nixon learned during the Watergate investigations and hearings, perps can hide from the crimes they commit but it is the coverup that almost always seals their fate. The coverup in Ferguson was and continues to be large, comprehensive, thorough, but too many people are not fooled by it.

Robert McCulloch's press conference was the presentation of a defense attorney and the grand jury was directed by none other than MuCulloch. The grand jurors did as they were instructed to do. It's an axiom of American jurisprudence that a prosecutor points, the grand jury indicts. McCulloch never pointed except at Michael Brown. McCulloch refused the governor's request to recuse himself from the case due to of a conflict of interest, which is why we are here today.

Yes, the New Black Panther Party is indeed in Ferguson and we hear regularly about the fact. Many Black Panthers have been arrested,which is good. It is however a little reported or discussed fact that the kKK is in Ferguson to support of Darren Wilson and that none of the KKK have been arrested. Needless to say I defend neither. At the same time however I don't ignore either.

Since I was not in journalism for 40 years, as others have claimed, you will have to excuse my inability to pick up on the finer nuances of writing misdirection.

However it would appear all of your four points were based on the alleged disappearance of Wilson and his inability to present himself as you indicate and so desperately desired.

My first and third sentences explain why Wilson, and the local Ferguson authorities, thought it best for him to be unavailable for the press to chase around and the New Black Panthers to harm.

Your flailing around a tad too much.

the alleged disappearance of Wilson

Alleged disappearance?!? Lemme guess....next it'll be the alleged killing of Michael Brown.

I'd just never seen such a consistent compulsive habitual pattern of denials of reality in favor of a world of self-satisfying fantasy and fiction as I've seen here during my years of, first, being a visiting reader of these forums, then as a signed up member making posts. Over an extended period of time poster after poster continually denies reality and propagates self-pleasing Caligula stamped pronouncements.

What will it be tomorrow, the alleged gun used in the alleged homicide that never occurred in the alleged town of Ferguson alleged...as alleged by the alleged poster.....

Darren Wilson disappeared from his Ferguson home 10 days after he shot Michael Brown to death and remained in hiding until appearing publicly on television to sleepwalk through his recited story to the nation and to the world. If one might want to quibble over semantics as in 'disappear' and 'hide' just go right ahead. For now however, Read all about it !

Darren Wilson switched homes, preferred dark movie theaters to avoid detection

Within three hours, he'd grabbed some bags and gone into hiding, according to his attorneys.

Since then, he's stayed under the radar by moving from house to house, including briefly living with one of his lawyers, and spending time watching movies in dark theaters to avoid detection.

His lawyers revealed details about his time in hiding to CNN and The Washington Post newspaper Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/darren-wilson-leaving/index.html

Apparently a new special prosecutor and a new special grand jury can be appointed by the governor of Missouri but the governor has declined to pursue the proposal, despite the urgings to do so by a number of lawyers on the basis that.....

"Mae Quinn, law professor and director of Washington University's Juvenile Law and Justice Clinic, said in a statement Wednesday that a special prosecutor should be appointed. After reviewing the grand jury transcripts, Quinn said, she believes Wilson's case “received preferential treatment as compared to others in the system.

"It seems clear from the beginning of the proceedings that the prosecution quite unusually adopted a defense stance, injecting the idea of justified homicide into the process well before Wilson testified,” Quinn said. “Prosecutors also served as quasi-witnesses by essentially testifying about facts outside of the existing record and vouching for police processes."

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/nixon-no-special-prosecutor-in-darren-wilson-case/article_e07403a6-0b8d-539e-b236-16c487a55685.html

Then there is the reality that the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD actually performed in worse ways than the Kao Tao and Thailand police in their homicide case, as is discussed in the two news articles below.....

Darren Wilson's Actions After Shooting: 'Very, Very Bad

Police actions in the immediate aftermath of the shooting of Michael Brown were a long way from normal, according to grand jury transcripts, which reveal that officer Darren Wilson drove himself back to the station by himself, cleaned the blood off himself, and checked his own gun into evidence, all of which runs against Justice Department advice on how to handle evidence and crime scenes.

Wilson's actions were "very, very bad from an investigative perspective," a former police chief who runs a consulting firm tells the Washington Post. His bloodied hands were never photographed because "a photographer wasn't available," per one investigator.

http://www.newser.com/story/199212/ferguson-police-procedures-totally-unorthodox.html

Unorthodox police procedures emerge in grand jury documents

In the critical first minutes after a shooting, investigators are trained to follow a time-tested process of protecting the scene to ensure that evidence is not compromised, according to the experts and documents. A shooting suspect — even a police officer — must be cordoned off in a controlled area and stripped of his clothing, his weapon secured by investigators, and must be escorted by officers if he leaves.

“An officer driving himself back? Wrong. An officer booking his own gun into evidence? Wrong,” said David Klinger, an expert on police shootings with the University of Missouri at St. Louis who is also a former police officer. “The appropriate investigative procedures were not followed.’’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/seemingly-unorthodox-police-procedures-emerge-in-grand-jury-documents/2014/11/25/48152574-74e0-11e4-bd1b-03009bd3e984_story.html

Edited November 29, 2014 by Publicus

[NeverSure]

If I were Wilson I would have gone into hiding too. The racist wingnuts who want to convict Wilson despite the evidence came out of the woodwork and tried to tear Ferguson down.

Those same racist wingnuts are still attacking Wilson despite the forensic evidence and the clear fact that the grand jury found it justified.

I don't know if Wilson will ever be safe due to the outrageous unwillingness to look at the evidence by the surrounding racists who would hang him despite the actual forensic evidence including ballistic evidence and the agreement by a grand jury.

[Publicus]

If I were Wilson I would have gone into hiding too. The racist wingnuts who want to convict Wilson despite the evidence came out of the woodwork and tried to tear Ferguson down.

Those same racist wingnuts are still attacking Wilson despite the forensic evidence and the clear fact that the grand jury found it justified.

I don't know if Wilson will ever be safe due to the outrageous unwillingness to look at the evidence by the surrounding racists who would hang him despite the actual forensic evidence including ballistic evidence and the agreement by a grand jury.

When you get a free moment or two why don't you tell us how you really feel about all of this....

[DM07]

<snip>

Either way: Willson had A GUN and Browne was UNARMED.

<snip>

Please explain to us precisely HOW Wilson knew Brown was unarmed.

Thank you.

I guess, the move to get hold of Willsons gun instead of using his own, night have given it away.

But that is just a wild guess...

[DM07]

-snip-

Were you there or are "you" -as much as "we"- basing your judgement on either version of the "truth"?

I was not there. The medical and forensic investigators who testified before the grand jury were there. The grand jury members were there to hear 60 witnesses and to see all available evidence.

You on the other hand continue to repeat things which were refuted by ballistic evidence, medical and scene investigation and expert testimony. You have NO interest in the real evidence.

Wilson shot brown in the hand while Wilson was reaching inside his police car.

The next time Wilson shot Brown, Brown was facing him at a distance of eight to twelve feet as proven by ballistics experts who can determine the distance of a shot.

Brown's arms were not up because he was facing Wilson at that close distance and three shots hit him in a downward trajectory in the front of his right arm. One bullet grazed his neck from the front, one hit him just above the eye and one hit him in the top of the head.

Officers are trained that if they must shoot, to keep shooting until the perp is neutralized. That's what Wilson did.

Now, stop your nonsense, please. Link to the facts from the Washington Post.

"The physical evidence in the Michael Brown case supported the officer"

They were not "there" to see, what was going on.

They came in after the event.

[NeverSure]

<snip>

Either way: Willson had A GUN and Browne was UNARMED.

<snip>

Please explain to us precisely HOW Wilson knew Brown was unarmed.

Thank you.

I guess, the move to get hold of Willsons gun instead of using his own, night have given it away.

But that is just a wild guess...

Will you please try to pay attention? How many times does it have to be said that being unarmed is irrelevant?

[NeverSure]

-snip-

Were you there or are "you" -as much as "we"- basing your judgement on either version of the "truth"?

I was not there. The medical and forensic investigators who testified before the grand jury were there. The grand jury members were there to hear 60 witnesses and to see all available evidence.

You on the other hand continue to repeat things which were refuted by ballistic evidence, medical and scene investigation and expert testimony. You have NO interest in the real evidence.

Wilson shot brown in the hand while Wilson was reaching inside his police car.

The next time Wilson shot Brown, Brown was facing him at a distance of eight to twelve feet as proven by ballistics experts who can determine the distance of a shot.

Brown's arms were not up because he was facing Wilson at that close distance and three shots hit him in a downward trajectory in the front of his right arm. One bullet grazed his neck from the front, one hit him just above the eye and one hit him in the top of the head.

Officers are trained that if they must shoot, to keep shooting until the perp is neutralized. That's what Wilson did.

Now, stop your nonsense, please. Link to the facts from the Washington Post.

"The physical evidence in the Michael Brown case supported the officer"

They were not "there" to see, what was going on.

They came in after the event.

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired...

The grand jurors were there for three weeks hearing 60 witnesses and seeing all of the evidence including the testimony from the autopsy and the forensic experts and other witnesses.

They are the ones who were there. You weren't.

[Publicus]

-snip-

Were you there or are "you" -as much as "we"- basing your judgement on either version of the "truth"?

I was not there. The medical and forensic investigators who testified before the grand jury were there. The grand jury members were there to hear 60 witnesses and to see all available evidence.

You on the other hand continue to repeat things which were refuted by ballistic evidence, medical and scene investigation and expert testimony. You have NO interest in the real evidence.

Wilson shot brown in the hand while Wilson was reaching inside his police car.

The next time Wilson shot Brown, Brown was facing him at a distance of eight to twelve feet as proven by ballistics experts who can determine the distance of a shot.

Brown's arms were not up because he was facing Wilson at that close distance and three shots hit him in a downward trajectory in the front of his right arm. One bullet grazed his neck from the front, one hit him just above the eye and one hit him in the top of the head.

Officers are trained that if they must shoot, to keep shooting until the perp is neutralized. That's what Wilson did.

Now, stop your nonsense, please. Link to the facts from the Washington Post.

"The physical evidence in the Michael Brown case supported the officer"

They were not "there" to see, what was going on.

They came in after the event.

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired...

The grand jurors were there for three weeks hearing 60 witnesses and seeing all of the evidence including the testimony from the autopsy and the forensic experts and other witnesses.

They are the ones who were there. You weren't.

The investigator with the county medical examiner's office, the 25 year veteran who is responsible for taking measurements of everything at the crime scene, took no measurements.

When a grand juror asked him why he did not take any measurements, he said, "It was obvious what happened."

This is but one of an easy dozen of instances of how the grand jury transcripts reveal a Kao Tao farce 'investigation' by the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD.

http://www.washingto...e984_story.html

[NeverSure]

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired...

The grand jurors were there for three weeks hearing 60 witnesses and seeing all of the evidence including the testimony from the autopsy and the forensic experts and other witnesses.

They are the ones who were there. You weren't.

The investigator with the county medical examiner's office, the 25 year veteran who is responsible for taking measurements of everything at the crime scene, took no measurements.

When a grand juror asked him why he did not take any measurements, he said, "It was obvious what happened."

This is but one of an easy dozen of instances of how the grand jury transcripts reveal a Kao Tao farce 'investigation' by the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD.

http://www.washingto...e984_story.html

You're trying too hard.

“it was self-explanatory what happened. Somebody shot somebody. There was no question as to any distances or anything of that nature at the time I was there.” (The voluminous documents released Monday show that at some point authorities did take measurements.)" Your link.

[Mosha]

Wilson has resigned his commission

[JDGRUEN]

The facts of the case showed that under Missouri law — and in accordance with Supreme Court precedent — Officer Wilson was justified in shooting Michael Brown.

Compared to other police use-of-force cases, this incident was pretty simple and pretty easy to evaluate. Under Missouri law, a police officer is authorised to use force in self-defense (when in fear of death or great bodily harm to himself or another person) and to effect an arrest or prevent escape under certain prescribed conditions. Further, the City of Ferguson Police Department’s use of force policy (section 410.01) states:

“An officer may use lethal force only when the officer reasonably believes that the action is in defense of human life, including the officer's own life.”

Two court cases likely had some bearing in the grand jury’s decision-making process:

1. In Jones v. City of St. Louis, 92 F.Supp.2d 949 (E.D. Mo., 2000) the federal district court, in a lawsuit from the police use of deadly force, held that the use of deadly force is reasonable where the officer has probable cause to believe the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or others.

2. In Fitzgerald v. Patrick, 927 F.2d 1037 (8th Cir., 1991) the 8th circuit federal court of appeals, in another police use-of-force case out of Missouri, said law enforcement officers are justified in using deadly force in self-defense or in defense of a third person if a reasonable person in similar circumstance would believe it was necessary.

Still, the person who knows woefully little about police work (Publicus) will ask, “How can an officer be in fear of death or great bodily harm from an unarmed teenager?”

It really boils down to two things: An unarmed assailant can legitimately threaten life or great bodily harm to another person — even an officer — and an objectively reasonable officer in a similar position to Wilson would have done what Wilson did.

Why do you continue to post nonsensical messages on a topic you know so little about? Don't you think its time to give it a rest?

Great post.

We have repeatedly said that deadly force is justified if person has reason to believe that his, or even a total stranger's life is in danger. It is also justified if there is fear of serious bodily injury to one's self or even to a total stranger. It's as simple as that.

That applies not only to police officers but to private citizens. I could have legally shot the guy.

But the drones go on and on, as if they also spent the three weeks with the grand jury, were in the cop's shoes, and know more than those who had to make this decision. A decision had to be made by the officer quickly, and then a decision was made by the grand jury which had lots of time to review evidence and make that decision.

Were the naysayers on here there?

The mind boggles.

What the Brown Shooting Fact Deniers want is for these types of laws to not exist. The crux of the continued denial of the facts of the Brown shooting is that liberal - leftists do not believe that almost every state has such a set of laws or should have. They didn't get on the books by accident. These laws were lobbied into effect - you can be sure of it - across the United States. We are a Federalist Country ... States have autonomous laws separate from the Federal Government. Liberals and Leftists do not what the 10th. Amendment to exist either. They want one big happy homogenized government preferably socialist in nature. Paid for by the Producers so the Takers can have a happy life.

These laws describing what a Police Officer or even a civilian person can do to defend themselves liberally apply(pardon the pun) to the defense of the person being attacked or about to be attacked. If the Brown Shooting Fact Deniers do not want officers to defend themselves with the degree of freedom allowed under these laws (perhaps thinking them to be unjust) then they are task with mounting an effort to change those laws in each and every state. Fighting Wilson will do no good. His shooting case is covered under the statutory and case law presented above... And even if the facts and forensics of the Wilson shooing case were weaker - allowing Wilson less justification than he has now --- Wilson would have still been found - NO BILL... Because anyone can read these laws and see the extent and latitude to which an officer is allowed to defend him/her self in any given situation. Wilson actions don't even come close to going beyond the bounds of self defense protection granted to him under current state law.

I suggest to the Brown Shooting Fact Deniers that they get a life or go join a campaign to change applicable laws because continuing to hammer on Wilson is

Edited November 30, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[VegasVic]

Wilson has resigned his commission

That is sad, however with the money he is getting from interviews and any potential book deals/TV ect. he will likely not need to work for the remainder of his life!

[JDGRUEN]

The parents are outraged that the Good Samaritan shot their son - even though he was caught in the act - with mask and gun pointed at the store clerk's head -- having the store clerk forced to his knees - execution style... And the parents are angry.

This is the lifestyle and mindset of total ignorance that governs places like Ferguson and it is the REASON Black men are shot over and over... They live in a jungle mindset ... gangsta, the hood, shootings - reprisals - steal what you want - rob who you please... Then do not expect consequences to happen... This is Nigerian street level mentality - and should not be American.

Armed Thug Shot by Good Samaritan – His Family’s Response is Unbelievable

... “He had the gun to his head. He had him on his knees,” said the man. “I drew my gun on him and I said ‘Hey don’t move.’ At that point he swung around and before he had a chance to aim the gun at me, I fired. I didn’t want to shoot him.”...

http://toprightnews.com/?p=7417

[JDGRUEN]

Wilson has resigned his commission

That is sad, however with the money he is getting from interviews and any potential book deals/TV ect. he will likely not need to work for the remainder of his life!

We hope

[JDGRUEN]

These images display and depict the wrong headed mindset on the part of individuals, groups and the news media as to why a town like Ferguson blows up into a total tragedy ... slanted news, discussing the wrong subject, denial of what a son actually is... the craziness of of taking a child to a violent protest and looting of a store... This is why we have the Fergusons and the aftermath.,.. A SICK Society ... a twisted news media. ignorance and stupidity of the inner city dwellers.

Any social group that refuses to consider that fact that Damning Numbers of Black on Black Crime DWARFS all other crime affecting them and want to blame everything bad in their lives as racism -- is a social group destine for total failure. Any greater Social System - that coddles and excuses this type mentality is also headed for extinction. 93 percent of Blacks Killed in America are killed by other Blacks ... and somehow that is a white person's fault ... Totally Amazing and Disgusting to even consider.

[NeverSure]

Wilson has resigned his commission

Of course he resigned. If he stayed around Ferguson he would be a dead man walking due to the same type of racists who tried to burn the town down. They have no respect for the rule of law just as some posters on here don't.

[CMNightRider]

A couple of posters keep going back to the fact Brown was unarmed, and Officer Wilson shot an unarmed man.

“The fact that Brown was found to be unarmed does not affect the reasonableness of the officer's decision — it is the officer's reasonable perception at the time, not in hindsight. There is evidence indicating a struggle taking place with the officer while he was still in his patrol vehicle and a struggle or attempted struggled for the officer's gun, which would justify the officer's perception that he was in danger of serious physical injury or death.”

I think most posters will be able to read this and have a clear understanding why Officer Wilson was forced to shoot Brown, and why the Ferguson grand jury made the decision they did. This had nothing to do with Brown's race or Officer Wilson's race.

Edited November 30, 2014 by CMNightRider

[Publicus]

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired...

The grand jurors were there for three weeks hearing 60 witnesses and seeing all of the evidence including the testimony from the autopsy and the forensic experts and other witnesses.

They are the ones who were there. You weren't.

The investigator with the county medical examiner's office, the 25 year veteran who is responsible for taking measurements of everything at the crime scene, took no measurements.

When a grand juror asked him why he did not take any measurements, he said, "It was obvious what happened."

This is but one of an easy dozen of instances of how the grand jury transcripts reveal a Kao Tao farce 'investigation' by the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD.

http://www.washingto...e984_story.html

You're trying too hard.

“it was self-explanatory what happened. Somebody shot somebody. There was no question as to any distances or anything of that nature at the time I was there.” (The voluminous documents released Monday show that at some point authorities did take measurements.)" Your link.

Yes thank you because I know my link and the news report in the Washington Post that I cite shows the sloppy irresponsible job investigators did at the crime scene where Michael Brown was left dead on the road for four hours while Darren Wilson and the Ferguson and St Louis PDs schemed terrible interviews that were not taped besides, and proceeded to aid and assist Wilson to become a fugitive from the homicide event and further investigation.

Yes thank you, the two police departments to include the medical examiner had to return to the crime scene at a later time, when the scene was not only stale but dead, to do the grossly inferior work they should have done in the first place at the time of the homicide.I have fired some of my own employees on the spot for far less sloppy and disrespectful work than was done by the Koh Tao Ferguson and St Louis PDs.

"It was self-explanatory what happened. Somebody shot somebody," is a flippant and contemptuous and contemptible statement, and a ghastly inferior quality of work approach and work product, that unmistakably demonstrates the attitude of the two police departments was to minimize if not completely cover up and whitewash the homicide and any viable evidence of it for the purpose of aiding and abetting Darren Wilson to escape any culpability in his homicide killing of the unarmed Michael Brown.

I don't fault the grand jury and its citizen members for their decision. The fault of creating a coverup crime and a criminal whitewash in this homicide crime lies squarely with the authorities, i.e., the Ferguson PD, the St Louis PD, the prosecutor turned police defense lawyer Robert McCulloch. I reiterate, it is an axiom of American justice that in a grand jury proceeding the prosecutor points and the grand jury indicts. All of the trouble and grief connected to this whitewash and travesty of justice lies with the prosecutor and the police.

[Publicus]

-snip-

Were you there or are "you" -as much as "we"- basing your judgement on either version of the "truth"?

I was not there. The medical and forensic investigators who testified before the grand jury were there. The grand jury members were there to hear 60 witnesses and to see all available evidence.

You on the other hand continue to repeat things which were refuted by ballistic evidence, medical and scene investigation and expert testimony. You have NO interest in the real evidence.

Wilson shot brown in the hand while Wilson was reaching inside his police car.

The next time Wilson shot Brown, Brown was facing him at a distance of eight to twelve feet as proven by ballistics experts who can determine the distance of a shot.

Brown's arms were not up because he was facing Wilson at that close distance and three shots hit him in a downward trajectory in the front of his right arm. One bullet grazed his neck from the front, one hit him just above the eye and one hit him in the top of the head.

Officers are trained that if they must shoot, to keep shooting until the perp is neutralized. That's what Wilson did.

Now, stop your nonsense, please. Link to the facts from the Washington Post.

"The physical evidence in the Michael Brown case supported the officer"

They were not "there" to see, what was going on.

They came in after the event.

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired. ..

The grand jurors were there for three weeks hearing 60 witnesses and seeing all of the evidence including the testimony from the autopsy and the forensic experts and other witnesses.

They are the ones who were there. You weren't.

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired.

No, that is incorrect, that is not why they were there, not the first time when they did not do that and not the second time either..

[chuckd]

<snip>

<snip>

<snip>

<snip>

the alleged disappearance of Wilson

Alleged disappearance?!? Lemme guess....next it'll be the alleged killing of Michael Brown.

<snip>

The only disappearance/absence/location unknown (whatever) was forced on Wilson by the threats against his life, the outing of his residence by the press and the New Black Panther's offer of a reward for his location.

If he had truly disappeared, I would expect an APB to have been put out and an official search begun for him as a fugitive from justice. No APB was issued for Wilson that I saw.

Local, and probably federal, officials knew of his whereabouts so he had hardly disappeared. He was moving around for his own safety.

I never implied there was an alleged gun or homicide. That would qualify as your particular fantasy.

[chuckd]

<snip>

Either way: Willson had A GUN and Browne was UNARMED.

<snip>

Please explain to us precisely HOW Wilson knew Brown was unarmed.

Thank you.

I guess, the move to get hold of Willsons gun instead of using his own, night have given it away.

But that is just a wild guess...

Yes, you are correct. That is a wild guess...and proves absolutely nothing.

Now let me offer a wild guess. Brown wanted a backup gun so he decided to try and take Wilson's away from him by force. He had used force some minutes earlier to steal some cigars so that would have been right in keeping with his habits.

[CMNightRider]

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired...

The grand jurors were there for three weeks hearing 60 witnesses and seeing all of the evidence including the testimony from the autopsy and the forensic experts and other witnesses.

They are the ones who were there. You weren't.

The investigator with the county medical examiner's office, the 25 year veteran who is responsible for taking measurements of everything at the crime scene, took no measurements.

When a grand juror asked him why he did not take any measurements, he said, "It was obvious what happened."

This is but one of an easy dozen of instances of how the grand jury transcripts reveal a Kao Tao farce 'investigation' by the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD.

http://www.washingto...e984_story.html

You're trying too hard.

“it was self-explanatory what happened. Somebody shot somebody. There was no question as to any distances or anything of that nature at the time I was there.” (The voluminous documents released Monday show that at some point authorities did take measurements.)" Your link.

Yes thank you because I know my link and the news report in the Washington Post that I cite shows the sloppy irresponsible job investigators did at the crime scene where Michael Brown was left dead on the road for four hours while Darren Wilson and the Ferguson and St Louis PDs schemed terrible interviews that were not taped besides, and proceeded to aid and assist Wilson to become a fugitive from the homicide event and further investigation.

Yes thank you, the two police departments to include the medical examiner had to return to the crime scene at a later time, when the scene was not only stale but dead, to do the grossly inferior work they should have done in the first place at the time of the homicide.I have fired some of my own employees on the spot for far less sloppy and disrespectful work than was done by the Koh Tao Ferguson and St Louis PDs.

"It was self-explanatory what happened. Somebody shot somebody," is a flippant and contemptuous and contemptible statement, and a ghastly inferior quality of work approach and work product, that unmistakably demonstrates the attitude of the two police departments was to minimize if not completely cover up and whitewash the homicide and any viable evidence of it for the purpose of aiding and abetting Darren Wilson to escape any culpability in his homicide killing of the unarmed Michael Brown.

I don't fault the grand jury and its citizen members for their decision. The fault of creating a coverup crime and a criminal whitewash in this homicide crime lies squarely with the authorities, i.e., the Ferguson PD, the St Louis PD, the prosecutor turned police defense lawyer Robert McCulloch. I reiterate, it is an axiom of American justice that in a grand jury proceeding the prosecutor points and the grand jury indicts. All of the trouble and grief connected to this whitewash and travesty of justice lies with the prosecutor and the police.

"Cover up and whitewash the homicide and any viable evidence of it for the purpose of aiding and abetting Darren Wilson to escape any culpability in his homicide killing of the unarmed Michael Brown."

Officer Wilson told investigators that Brown had pushed him back into his SUV, then struggled for his pistol inside that squad. When there is a physical fight between an officer and an assailant, there is always at least one gun present. If the officer loses consciousness or the ability to completely protect himself/herself, that gun may be used against them. The public and the media do not seem the grasp that once someone grabs an officer's weapon, he is no longer unarmed.

"I have fired some of my own employees on the spot for far less sloppy and disrespectful work than was done by the Koh Tao Ferguson and St Louis PDs."

It is very difficult imagining you being in charge of others. Whatever your former employment was, it certainly had nothing to do with writing or critical thinking.

[Publicus]

These images display and depict the wrong headed mindset on the part of individuals, groups and the news media as to why a town like Ferguson blows up into a total tragedy ... slanted news, discussing the wrong subject, denial of what a son actually is... the craziness of of taking a child to a violent protest and looting of a store... This is why we have the Fergusons and the aftermath.,.. A SICK Society ... a twisted news media. ignorance and stupidity of the inner city dwellers.

Any social group that refuses to consider that fact that Damning Numbers of Black on Black Crime DWARFS all other crime affecting them and want to blame everything bad in their lives as racism -- is a social group destine for total failure. Any greater Social System - that coddles and excuses this type mentality is also headed for extinction. 93 percent of Blacks Killed in America are killed by other Blacks ... and somehow that is a white person's fault ... Totally Amazing and Disgusting to even consider.

10734132_839254439454130_71627223760959884_n.jpg1463639_747780455309553_5060798812871511476_n.jpg10525823_597022127092333_8558171730065985820_n.jpg1384019_10152956391528854_925315042774783623_n.png

The increasing militarization of the white local police against the black citizens of their communities is a phenomenon that has clear and identifiable reasons. It is due to the hardheaded and wrongheaded approach of the hard core right that has no solutions towards making a genuine effort to reclaim civility and peace in the society. For as long as the shoot 'em up blow 'em up bury 'em and dance on their grave approach continues, race relations in American society will continue to plunge into the abyss and take the rest of us with it.

[Publicus]

Please explain to us precisely HOW Wilson knew Brown was unarmed.

Thank you.

I guess, the move to get hold of Willsons gun instead of using his own, night have given it away.

But that is just a wild guess...

Yes, you are correct. That is a wild guess...and proves absolutely nothing.

Now let me offer a wild guess. Brown wanted a backup gun so he decided to try and take Wilson's away from him by force. He had used force some minutes earlier to steal some cigars so that would have been right in keeping with his habits.

More fiction.

[Publicus]

The investigator with the county medical examiner's office, the 25 year veteran who is responsible for taking measurements of everything at the crime scene, took no measurements.

When a grand juror asked him why he did not take any measurements, he said, "It was obvious what happened."

This is but one of an easy dozen of instances of how the grand jury transcripts reveal a Kao Tao farce 'investigation' by the Ferguson PD and the St Louis county PD.

http://www.washingto...e984_story.html

You're trying too hard.

“it was self-explanatory what happened. Somebody shot somebody. There was no question as to any distances or anything of that nature at the time I was there.” (The voluminous documents released Monday show that at some point authorities did take measurements.)" Your link.

Yes thank you because I know my link and the news report in the Washington Post that I cite shows the sloppy irresponsible job investigators did at the crime scene where Michael Brown was left dead on the road for four hours while Darren Wilson and the Ferguson and St Louis PDs schemed terrible interviews that were not taped besides, and proceeded to aid and assist Wilson to become a fugitive from the homicide event and further investigation.

Yes thank you, the two police departments to include the medical examiner had to return to the crime scene at a later time, when the scene was not only stale but dead, to do the grossly inferior work they should have done in the first place at the time of the homicide.I have fired some of my own employees on the spot for far less sloppy and disrespectful work than was done by the Koh Tao Ferguson and St Louis PDs.

"It was self-explanatory what happened. Somebody shot somebody," is a flippant and contemptuous and contemptible statement, and a ghastly inferior quality of work approach and work product, that unmistakably demonstrates the attitude of the two police departments was to minimize if not completely cover up and whitewash the homicide and any viable evidence of it for the purpose of aiding and abetting Darren Wilson to escape any culpability in his homicide killing of the unarmed Michael Brown.

I don't fault the grand jury and its citizen members for their decision. The fault of creating a coverup crime and a criminal whitewash in this homicide crime lies squarely with the authorities, i.e., the Ferguson PD, the St Louis PD, the prosecutor turned police defense lawyer Robert McCulloch. I reiterate, it is an axiom of American justice that in a grand jury proceeding the prosecutor points and the grand jury indicts. All of the trouble and grief connected to this whitewash and travesty of justice lies with the prosecutor and the police.

"Cover up and whitewash the homicide and any viable evidence of it for the purpose of aiding and abetting Darren Wilson to escape any culpability in his homicide killing of the unarmed Michael Brown."

Officer Wilson told investigators that Brown had pushed him back into his SUV, then struggled for his pistol inside that squad. When there is a physical fight between an officer and an assailant, there is always at least one gun present. If the officer loses consciousness or the ability to completely protect himself/herself, that gun may be used against them. The public and the media do not seem the grasp that once someone grabs an officer's weapon, he is no longer unarmed.

"I have fired some of my own employees on the spot for far less sloppy and disrespectful work than was done by the Koh Tao Ferguson and St Louis PDs."

It is very difficult imagining you being in charge of others. Whatever your former employment was, it certainly had nothing to do with writing or critical thinking.

[NeverSure]

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired. ..

The grand jurors were there for three weeks hearing 60 witnesses and seeing all of the evidence including the testimony from the autopsy and the forensic experts and other witnesses.

They are the ones who were there. You weren't.

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired.

No, that is incorrect, that is not why they were there, not the first time when they did not do that and not the second time either..

The forensic examiners can tell by the wounds in the body the distance, whether the bullets were in a downward or upward trajectory, and where the shooter was in relation to the deceased i.e. behind, beside, above, below, in front etc.

The forensic examiners were there at the examination and the two people who performed independent autopsies were there at the autopsies to gather the evidence.

Is this new stuff for you?

[Ulysses G.]

The increasing militarization of the white local police against the black citizens of their communities is a phenomenon that has clear and identifiable reasons.

Indeed. The ridiculously high black crime rate. Statistics released by the Federal Bureau of Investigation determined that in the year 2008, black youths, who are 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58% for homicide and 67% for robbery.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Publicus]

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired. ..

The grand jurors were there for three weeks hearing 60 witnesses and seeing all of the evidence including the testimony from the autopsy and the forensic experts and other witnesses.

They are the ones who were there. You weren't.

The forensic examiners were there to examine the body, determine from where the shots were fired, at what angle they came from, the distance from which they were fired.

No, that is incorrect, that is not why they were there, not the first time when they did not do that and not the second time either..

The forensic examiners can tell by the wounds in the body the distance, whether the bullets were in a downward or upward trajectory, and where the shooter was in relation to the deceased i.e. behind, beside, above, below, in front etc.

The forensic examiners were there at the examination and the two people who performed independent autopsies were there at the autopsies to gather the evidence.

Is this new stuff for you?

Black Americans have the highest per capita income of black people in any nation of the world yet there remains in the United States a black underclass of sorts that is grotesquely alienated from the society as a whole.

The extreme far right are wealthy white conservative Republican party elitists who descend from the culture, values, traditions of the defeated Old Confederacy regardless of whether they originate from a state of the Old Confederacy or are from a state outside of it.

The only thing that stopped the Old Confederacy from destroying the United States was the destruction of the hard core Confederacy itself. I read a line online the other day that struck me, so I'll present it to the radical reactionary hard right that dwells under the mushrooms that grow here:

"First time in history a prosecutor has argued successfully for the defense. It's time to burn the South again."

Echoes and compliments of General Sherman.