How To Argue With Thais

[girlx]

my farang girl friend recently fought with her thai boyfriend, and they broke up. she confronted him about something he did wrong, and as is the western way things got a bit heated on her side. he refused to talk to her which made her even more worked up. obviously there are communication problems between the two cultures. thais avoid confrontation or analysis of serious subjects. farangs tend to like to get things all out in the open and examine them. we like to yell, it actually gives a lot of us satisfaction to fight since afterwards there is some sort of understanding and the bad feelings have been aired. whereas thais let things fester inside and then it might come out in other ways- violence, disappearing, depression to name a few. they also tend to avoid responsibility, ie. if they did something wrong it can be like pulling teeth to get them to admit or apologize for it. i have had this problem as well in the past and wafrustrated at how hard it was to resolve problems between myself and a thai... i am wondering how those of you with thai partners deal with things like this. surely as a foreigner in thailand you have to compromise a bit in your style of argument, but it seems to me that thais with a farang partner need to compromise as well. if one partner is angry about something, what is the best way to approach the other in this situation?

[Boo]

Practice makes perfect. My husband used to walk out of the room when an argument started, do you know how annoying that is, mid rant & he just walked away

I decided that a lesson into farang styles of arguing & confrontation was in order so sat him down with a beer (once the argument was over for a couple of days) & explained that if he was planning on ignoring all future problems & was unable to express his view as well as accepting mine regardless of whether it was a heated disagreement or a calm discussion then we might as well finish it now. He explained that thai people generally didn't like to confront each other & I explained that farangs did & that I thought my way was better as bad feeligns didn't fester & grow.

It took a while but he learned to express himself, sometimes, even now, if he can't explain properly in english, he just says "let me think about how to say what I want to say & I'll tell you later"

Basically, our first 6 months were rife with silly arguments, frustrations at not understanding each others ways & lack of communication but once we had ironed out these differences, things improved greatly & from then on & still now, we hardly argue as we can just say whats on our minds without it getting out of control & turning into a big row.

I compromised by not shouting all the time. As a strong personality I tended to over-express myself & gestaculate a lot & he found that overpowering & intimidating as he didn't realise that I was just over-expressing & not actually having a go at him sometimes. So I learnt the softer approach & he the direct approach.

[Minburi]

As in any war you should pick your battles. They be it Thai male or female are bringing a whole different angle to the argument. And really its western ideals against Thai ideals. Who is to say that their way is wrong or ours is right. You can`t force them to change to your way of thinking nor they change yours. They want to keep it in and not express themselves that is their right. Be it from lack of understanding or just not being able to express themselves correctly

I find if I walk away from the argument then come back later with both sides calmer it is easier to talk about it then if at anytime to try and force the issue. Yelling and screaming will just embarass the Thai person. In my opinion.

she confronted him about something he did wrong will just make him lose face by the way and she should know that.

[Boo]

One important point & this applies to any relationship not just with thai people IMO; Don't start an argument in public, wait until you are behind closed doors but AFAIAC, you should be able to have a row in private with your partner without worrying about them losing face.

[thaibebop]

You don't agrue with Thais, you just be the first to leave the room.

[Donz]

Yes my Thai gf does back down and leave the room, she has a mouth on her and will ALWAYS tell me what she is thinking, sometimes I have to back out because she has this look like she is gonna kill me, but I would say I do win 50% of them

[TRIPxCORE]

my farang girl friend recently fought with her thai boyfriend, and they broke up. she confronted him about something he did wrong, and as is the western way things got a bit heated on her side. he refused to talk to her which made her even more worked up. obviously there are communication problems between the two cultures. thais avoid confrontation or analysis of serious subjects. farangs tend to like to get things all out in the open and examine them. we like to yell, it actually gives a lot of us satisfaction to fight since afterwards there is some sort of understanding and the bad feelings have been aired. whereas thais let things fester inside and then it might come out in other ways- violence, disappearing, depression to name a few. they also tend to avoid responsibility, ie. if they did something wrong it can be like pulling teeth to get them to admit or apologize for it. i have had this problem as well in the past and wafrustrated at how hard it was to resolve problems between myself and a thai... i am wondering how those of you with thai partners deal with things like this. surely as a foreigner in thailand you have to compromise a bit in your style of argument, but it seems to me that thais with a farang partner need to compromise as well. if one partner is angry about something, what is the best way to approach the other in this situation?

You just perfectly described my Thai wife. How do I handle it, you ask? Well I dont really. Like you I want to get everything out in the open and discuss it until it's resolved but she wont have it. If I go on too long she just breaks down and cries.

[girlx]

You can`t force them to change to your way of thinking nor they change yours.

i agree, i think it needs a compromise on both sides, but i have found that thais are unwilling to compromise. instead they just write us off as "crazy".

[bkkmadness]

You can`t force them to change to your way of thinking nor they change yours.

i agree, i think it needs a compromise on both sides, but i have found that thais are unwilling to compromise. instead they just write us off as "crazy".

I gonna make the mother of assumptions here assume that 'crazy' is followed by the word 'farang' or at least said in that kind of 'context' ie. your are crazy coz you are farang, rather than you are crazy because of the way you have acted as an individual. Thats something I just gathered from your post but I may have just read into it too much. If I'm wrong then don't shoot me down, just ignore my post.

When I hear things like farang/Thai arguing (whether its a Thai bf/gf or a Thai dealing with tourists) and a Thai saying "you crazy farang" as part of their argument it seems to me like they are trying to give the impression that the problem is a cultural difference rather than a problem from two individual people.

It seems a convenient excuse and one that many people fall for. The farang walking off and worrying why there are such cultural differences between them and the Thai person when really they have just fell for an old classic Thai excuse. "You're farang, you dont understand, you're crazy farang, you baa farang" etc.

Even yourself Girlx has come on this board to ask about the cultural differences of farang/Thai relationships because it seems you have been given this excuse, when really you should be dealing with the individual.

I understand to solve problems you both need to be aware of each others culture, but if one person is using culture purely as an excuse to 'shut you up for a while' or 'get their own way' then you have to question that.

If you are dealing with someone who has nothing better to say in an argument that "you're crazy farang" then its probably better finding a different level of bf rather than believing the problem is down to cultural issues.

I suppose what I am trying to say is I do know many Thais that are happy to compromise, and I do know many Thais that use their culture (and farangs lack of knowledge of it) as an excuse to get out of a 'tight spot'.

[sbk]

You can`t force them to change to your way of thinking nor they change yours.

i agree, i think it needs a compromise on both sides, but i have found that thais are unwilling to compromise. instead they just write us off as "crazy".

I gonna make the mother of assumptions here assume that 'crazy' is followed by the word 'farang' or at least said in that kind of 'context' ie. your are crazy coz you are farang, rather than you are crazy because of the way you have acted as an individual. Thats something I just gathered from your post but I may have just read into it too much. If I'm wrong then don't shoot me down, just ignore my post.

When I hear things like farang/Thai arguing (whether its a Thai bf/gf or a Thai dealing with tourists) and a Thai saying "you crazy farang" as part of their argument it seems to me like they are trying to give the impression that the problem is a cultural difference rather than a problem from two individual people.

It seems a convenient excuse and one that many people fall for. The farang walking off and worrying why there are such cultural differences between them and the Thai person when really they have just fell for an old classic Thai excuse. "You're farang, you dont understand, you're crazy farang, you baa farang" etc.

Even yourself Girlx has come on this board to ask about the cultural differences of farang/Thai relationships because it seems you have been given this excuse, when really you should be dealing with the individual.

I understand to solve problems you both need to be aware of each others culture, but if one person is using culture purely as an excuse to 'shut you up for a while' or 'get their own way' then you have to question that.

If you are dealing with someone who has nothing better to say in an argument that "you're crazy farang" then its probably better finding a different level of bf rather than believing the problem is down to cultural issues.

I suppose what I am trying to say is I do know many Thais that are happy to compromise, and I do know many Thais that use their culture (and farangs lack of knowledge of it) as an excuse to get out of a 'tight spot'.

Excellent post bkkmadness, and for once, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I disagree that Thais are unwilling to compromise as I see them compromising on a regular basis. I think that most Thais dislike open argumentative confrontation. I have learned in my years of marriage that the best way to get my husband's attention when I am upset is to tell him, in a calm manner. We do argue but rarely scream and yell. I have found that giving vent to my considerable temper is usually more destructive than constructive (regardless of who I am dealing with) and that if I am really pissed off to wait about ten minutes, think about why and then tell him. But shouting and screaming rarely solves anything with anyone, so calmly is always best. Even when I don't feel particularly calm.

And Boo is 100% correct, never start an argument in public with your partner, Thai, farang or whatever. Your personal relationship is just that, personal and not really appropriate for public consumption. And no one else wants to see it anyway.

[kmart]

Just my ten cents worth. - I will never back down from an issue that needs sorting out. Don't have to rant and rave, just be gentle but insistent.

To me, the thing about "losing face" and avoiding confrontation is refusal to accept responsibility, and i regard it as a cultural deficiency. I am not going to lose out or accept substandard treatment or service just to save someone's fragile, immature ego.

Thais will compromise every time if they know that you are not a fool. You may also earn a modicum of respect for standing your ground too.

Just don't be aggressive; loud; or use violent body language.

[bkkmadness]

Here's something I used to notice about arguments with my gf that never happens now. It was in those situations when you are quite obviously in the right, she knew I was in the right, I knew I was in the right, but even after we both knew this I'd keep pushing and pushing the argument until I actually heard her say "Ok, you're right, I'm wrong".

I could never understand this because I'm pretty quick to admit if its obvious I'm wrong about something and it seemed arguments that should have lasted minutes dragged on for hours. We both got our points across in the first minutes, we both knew where we stood and who was right and who was wrong in a few minutes, but I'd spend the rest of the night trying to make her admit to this. That's when you get the slamming doors, and silent treatment and where the real 'heat' of the argument comes from.

Ever had them crazy all night arguments about the smallest most pathetic things? Thats all about the 'heat', and its the 'heat' you've got to learn to avoid if you want to move forward and have a good relationship.

Nowadays, we both get our points across pretty quickly and then leave it at that, we both will come to the right conclusions and compromise and it doesn't have to be admitted at the time of the argument at all. You will know whether you have 'won' the argument (or better put 'got your point across and understood') by future actions and the fact that you will not argue about the same thing anymore. Of course if you have 'lost' the argument and your partner has made a point that you have come to agree with, your future actions will also show that as you bend to compromise that little bit more.

If you over a period of time keep arguing about the same thing, its clear that you still both haven't got your point across to the other and no compromise has been reached. Maybe you'll never agree on some things, if their small things ignore them coz no two people are 100% compatitable, on the other hand if they are major things, well thats why break ups occur, not much you can do about that.

I think the cultural difference/reason for this seems to be the farang way of thinking that an argument is only considered resolved when you have reached a conclusion and that conclusion has to be admitted by both parties and agreed on that same day/night you start arguing.

But you'll be banging your head against a brick wall trying to get a Thai to actually admit their wrong about something, its not they don't accept being wrong, but IMHO its just not in their culture to actually stand there and physically tell you that they are wrong.

That is to do with 'face' to a certain degree though as someone else said, 'face' shouldn't come into when you argue amongst yourselves its of course a major part of the way Thais think and act, they can't just turn it all off because they are alone with you.

To continue to press the point that you want them to admit they are wrong could be considered impolite (or even crazy) as you are really pushing them to make them lose 'face'. I mean really, why do us farang need that verbal confirmation? Will we need it in writing too?

If they know they are wrong, why push them into openly admitting it? You have afterall solved the problem already, you've got your point across, its been listened to and learned from, they don't understand why your pushing them to lose face, and of course we the farang are doing it because we are not happy until we have been verbally told we are right, we don't think anything has been resolved until we have had that confirmation from our partner.

When Thais argue, they will avoid confrontation to the point that they will not scream and shout and debate something all day. They'll make their point, and then they go their own way and think about what the other has said. There later actions will show what they thought of the other persons opinion.

This is done because if they continue to argue about it at one point one of the Thais will have to lose face, and in a situation where two people that otherwise like/care about each other neither of them would want that. So they both step away from the situation so that 'danger' of one of them losing face is avoided.

Sorry a bit of a garbled post, but hope that helps GirlX. Good luck and it does get a lot easier. I gotta admit when I read about new farang/Thai relationships and their heated arguments over the tiniest things I'm not envious one bit, it can be a tough time.

I'm quite happy now that we just say a few words to each other and she swtiches on the tv and I switch on the computer and we just try to avoid each other for a couple of hours. Gotta avoid that 'heat'!

[bkkmadness]

To me, the thing about "losing face" and avoiding confrontation is refusal to accept responsibility, and i regard it as a cultural deficiency. I am not going to lose out or accept substandard treatment or service just to save someone's fragile, immature ego.

It's not about refusing to accept responsibilty but it is often used an excuse to give the foreigner a poor service. I've seen many a foreigner told to avoid asking for money back on poor service so as the person who gave the service doesn't lose face. What is conveniently not mentioned is that the foreigner will lose face by accepting this poor service. It seems that many foreigners here in Thailand don't seem to realise they have also have 'face', and whilst your living in this country it needs to be protected.

I saw a post on here a few months back about some guy who's motorbike was taken to a repair shop, poor service followed, demands for money and the guy was too scared to go and ask the Thai for his bike back saying "well I can't make him lose face". All I though when I read that was "Well what about your face man, how can you lose it so easily to some Thai repairman whos stringing you along?"

You may also earn a modicum of respect for standing your ground too.

Thats a way of gaining 'face'.

Just don't be aggressive; loud; or use violent body language.

And thats a way of not losing 'face' and protecting your own 'face'.

I think that learning to give 'face', and getting your own 'face' is an important factor for living in Thailand, its also a very useful tool to use when you need to get something done, whether its getting your bike repaired or getting better service. You'll get a lot of benefits when you learn to use it correctly. Play them at their own game with their own rules whilst in this country, its the only way.

[Boo]

I'm quite happy now that we just say a few words to each other and she swtiches on the tv and I switch on the computer and we just try to avoid each other for a couple of hours. Gotta avoid that 'heat'!

LOL this is really funny, my husband & I have our own offices partly for this reason too. Mine has a tv, my laptop & work desk & phone, his has his computer, guitars & a jeep camp bed where he lays to watch thai tv on the computer or listen to his music. Having this space actually means that when one is annoying the other we have places to go to get away & have some "me" time.

[bkkmadness]

If it does get a bit more heated, she sits on the balcony with the phone bitching about me to her Grandma and I go downstairs to see my mate where I typically moan about 'that ######ing woman' for a couple of hours.

Edited August 8, 2006 by bkkmadness

[Donz]

Man i have been with one Thai and many farangs, when I had an arguement with them there was no analysing like most of you say, its usually there right and im wrong. I thought that just what a woman does

[girlx]

I gonna make the mother of assumptions here assume that 'crazy' is followed by the word 'farang' or at least said in that kind of 'context' ie. your are crazy coz you are farang, rather than you are crazy because of the way you have acted as an individual.

well, in my past relationship i think the guy was using the excuse that i am a crazy farang to shut me up. but in my friend's case with her man, he called her crazy because i think he was shocked by her aggressiveness and really thought she was crazy... anyway i was thinking about it because i know in her situation, i would have been the same way. i have a temper and it is really hard for me to suck it up and not say anything right away. i am not in a relationship now with a thai but if i were, i think we would have problems. i agree that they are immature and avoid taking responsibility for their actions and they will use 'face' as a way to ignore the situation completely. i have seen thais compromise to some extent, but i have also noticed that with them, the farang is almost always wrong, period, no discussion.

[bkkmadness]

i agree that they are immature and avoid taking responsibility for their actions and they will use 'face' as a way to ignore the situation completely. i have seen thais compromise to some extent, but i have also noticed that with them, the farang is almost always wrong, period, no discussion.

With all due respect I disagree with the above. And Im not really sure why you quoted my post and said you agree with me that Thais are immature and avoid taking responsibilty, I didn't say that.

I'd say you've met the wrong lot of Thai people and if you got to know more Thai people or a wider variety of them then your opinion would change dramatically. You need to give people a bit more of a chance and you need to be able to bend a little to their ways also.

i have a temper and it is really hard for me to suck it up and not say anything right away. i am not in a relationship now with a thai but if i were, i think we would have problems. smile.gif

You see like this, its just not the way things are done here. You need to adjust a little, if you changed your ways and managed to control that temper of yours, then that would be the start of solving your problems. (obviously Im talking about if you were in that situation of dating a Thai guy, I do realise you are not)

Its give and take and it involves respect, key points to all good relationships and even more important to note when dealing with cross cultural relationships where a lot of patience and learning is involved.

Edited August 8, 2006 by bkkmadness

[girlx]

sorry bkkmadness i wasn't referring to your post, but was referring to kmart's about the immaturity thing.

I'd say you've met the wrong lot of Thai people and if you got to know more Thai people or a wider variety of them then your opinion would change dramatically.

people have said this before but i don't think so- in 8 years of visiting thailand (all over) and 3 living here (in koh chang, bangkok, koh phangan), meeting many people from all classes i have noticed this pattern. i greatly dislike the thai concept of face and i do think they have an immature tendency to not own up to their actions and thus an inability to analyze things honestly...just look at the PM for a prime example.

You need to adjust a little, if you changed your ways and managed to control that temper of yours, then that would be the start of solving your problems.

thanks but this post wasn't about me or my temper. obviously that's a big reason why i don't get involved romantically with thais any longer, as i said. though i did start off on the wrong foot, i spent a LOT of time trying to compromise in the past and approach things calmly with my ex- always hit a brick wall. there was no getting through to him, he had no interest in examining cultural differences, or anything for that matter.... but that was him and that's why we are no longer together. i am sure there might be some thais who are more willing to accept and adjust to farang style, and if i met one in the future who was worth trying for, i would of course try to compromise again myself despite my love of an honest fight. this post though, was just to get ideas from other long termers of tactics that work with the average thai.

Edited August 8, 2006 by girlx

[bkkmadness]

i greatly dislike the thai concept of face

Like it, hate it, doesn't matter, you have to understand the concept of face, its your greatest weapon when dealing with Thais. You might disagree with it, but in the end you have to use it. If you dont adhere to the rules of 'face' in this country when dealing with the Thais you'll never be able to reach compromises with them and you'll forever be frustrated when arguing with them.

Edited August 8, 2006 by bkkmadness

[Charma]

Although I think there are cultural factors at work in this, I think that personality probably plays the larger part. My wife and I did argue a lot more at the beginning of our relationship and I think this was due in part to a cultural difference in resolving our issues. Over the years we have developed a greater understanding of each other and very rarely argue now. When we do, it seems to be dealt with very quickly.One thing I have learnt is to give a bit of time before thrying to resolve the situation. Not sure if this is a Thai thing, but it works for us.

Much is made of the Thai concepts of "losing face", but this is also a factor in the west too, but perhaps not to such an extent. I have never liked to argue in public and would always walk off if someone tried to engage in an argument where there were onlookers. Not many farang like to lose face either and you can see the results in terms of fights all the time. Just look at the response that can come from a flame on this forum and it is obvious that posters from the west do not like to lose face, even when they are on an anonymous forum like this.

[ayakiawe]

Thais unfortunately aren't much when it comes to their communication skills

I think a long time ago if you did such things.... say at the wrong time anyways...... they just cut your head off....... so they are still coming from that place with their modern communication skills...

Ever heard one of them talk on the phone?

So how many times do you need to tell them where you will meet?

7 times is a bit over done? Maybe you need to say it 5 more times...

Its no wonder the PM is so rich with such wasted time on the telephone calls in this country!

Its like they have not got the basic skills of communication and must really work over elementary things many times before they get it

My Thai girlfriend communicates normally worse than our dog actually she (the dog) at least will lick me and let me know how it feels.

TGF is a nice person and I love her but pathetic as far as her ability to communicate on really basic adult levels as far as I can see after 8 years. I think its a cultural problem and they suffer for this.

[bkkmadness]

Much is made of the Thai concepts of "losing face", but this is also a factor in the west too, but perhaps not to such an extent. I have never liked to argue in public and would always walk off if someone tried to engage in an argument where there were onlookers. Not many farang like to lose face either and you can see the results in terms of fights all the time. Just look at the response that can come from a flame on this forum and it is obvious that posters from the west do not like to lose face, even when they are on an anonymous forum like this.

Thats certainly true, face is a big concept in the west as well, though under different terms, whether its by gaining face by showing off your brand new car or losing face in an argument or whatever.

But I think their are differences, and those differences are what need to be understood. It does seem to be a more delicate matter here and face is lost and gained in other ways as well and its important to understand them. Its a learning process and I'm certainly no expert but as I learn more about these intricacies of Thai 'face' I find things get easier when dealing with the Thai people.

[TRIPxCORE]

Madness, I completely agree with you how I too try to get my wife to admit she is wrong when I know she is and I will keep arguing and explaining things until I get verbal confirmation from her. This is like banging my head against a wall and it drives me crazy. I know our farang way is different than their way but I don't know any other way to deal with disagreements. You cant just let it go unresolved and fester because the problem with eventually come up again. I am at a loss over what to do in these situations.

Then another person mentioned how Thais lack basic adult-level communication skills and from what I have seen, this is also true. Whenever I want to talk about something thats serious, but not necessarily argue, just talk, she never lets me. She will automatically tell me she has a headache and close her eyes. As a married couple, things will always come up that need to be discussed, important things. She refuses to talk about anything important. It cant go on like that.

[thaibebop]

Madness, I completely agree with you how I too try to get my wife to admit she is wrong when I know she is and I will keep arguing and explaining things until I get verbal confirmation from her. This is like banging my head against a wall and it drives me crazy. I know our farang way is different than their way but I don't know any other way to deal with disagreements. You cant just let it go unresolved and fester because the problem with eventually come up again. I am at a loss over what to do in these situations.

Then another person mentioned how Thais lack basic adult-level communication skills and from what I have seen, this is also true. Whenever I want to talk about something thats serious, but not necessarily argue, just talk, she never lets me. She will automatically tell me she has a headache and close her eyes. As a married couple, things will always come up that need to be discussed, important things. She refuses to talk about anything important. It cant go on like that.

SameSame! Drives me up the fcking walls. I just say what I have to then leave her to think about it. At some point she will say " Ihave an idea..." and it will be what I said weeks ago.

[sbk]

I feel very fortunate after reading some posts. My husband and I communicate quite well and resolve our differences (usually but not always) without resorting to yelling or extreme anger. He is quite willing to admit when he's wrong (a rare trait in anyone) and his willingness to admit error makes it just that much easier for me to do so as well.

That said, I have noticed this unwillingness to admit error (ie accept personal responsibility for one's actions) in our staff. The coffee pot was cracked and when my husband asked who broke it no one was willing to accept the blame, including the person who admitted washing it! They knew they weren't going to get charged for it, nor were they going to get into trouble, he just wanted to tell the person to be more careful as it cracks easily. And they knew that.

I think that with any relationship the "hot" period cools off, that includes the passion of an early romance as well as the violent swings of emotion that come with it. If you can get past that stage then you will find your relationship works quite well, as Charma has said

My wife and I did argue a lot more at the beginning of our relationship and I think this was due in part to a cultural difference in resolving our issues. Over the years we have developed a greater understanding of each other and very rarely argue now. When we do, it seems to be dealt with very quickly.One thing I have learnt is to give a bit of time before thrying to resolve the situation.

As for your friend girlx, well, yelling and screaming at someone does not resolve anything and generally makes things worse. I can imagine that, if she lost her temper, she would look crazy. Ever seen someone who has done this? They look like a psycho. Especially in a culture where this is unacceptable. Both partners have to learn to tone down their extremes or the relationship will never work. Hot tempered people must learn to cool down and people who won't communicate must learn to do so. But a person with an unwillingness to communicate certainly won't be persuaded to do so if every time there is an argument he is confronted with a screaming banshee.

[Sheryl]

Tha

[TRIPxCORE]

Tha

Does that mean something???

[soic]

I simply refuse to argue. Nang and I have disagreements sometimes, everyone does. I refuse to fight with her though. I'll talk to her and explain what I think and she tells me the same, if she starts shouting, I put my hands up and tell her I'll come back later when she's ready to talk. If we can't come to an understanding about something, I'll tell her that I'm finished talking about it... we both know how the other one feels and that's just the way it is, we have to accept whatever it is. If I'm wrong, I'll say I'm wrong... I've noticed that she's started admitting that occassionally she can be wrong as well.

I still remember one of our major disagreements. I felt it was so odd that she could be so sweet and loving towards me, yet so short tempered with her sons. We lied awake one night talking about it for hours. Our 14 year old was giving us some problems. I asked her if she ever just sat and talked to him, or if she ever told him that she loved him. She said she only tells him to do something or yell; she said that Thai people don't tell their children that they love them. I told her that I didn't believe it, and even if it were true, I didn't want that to happen in our family. I made her promise that she would talk to him and tell him that she loved him the next day. I prodded her until she did it. They got a little teary eyed after talking for about 30 minutes, then she looked up and asked "ok?" I said that's sweet... now please give him a big hug. I had to beg her to do it... and I told her not a quick one, a real one. She gave him one and next thing I knew they were crying their hearts out and telling each other that they loved each other, Heck, it made me cry. Things have never went back to the way the were between them before. It's so nice to see the change.

I only say that to say that even though our cultures differ and we look at things different. It doesn't mean that we can't incorporate the best parts of both cultures into our relationships. I've learned patience and humility from my Thai family. I've learned to find happiness in small things and gestures. I believe that my family has learned how to express love and talk, if nothing else. We hug and tell each other that we love each other all the time. We go out of our way to show it too. That Thai pride, or the loss of face doesn't affect us at all. We've talked about those kinds of things a long time ago. She and my sons have learned that it doesn't look bad if they admit they're wrong or have to say sorry, it looks bad if they can't or won't. I went out of my way to prove the point, not in forcing them to say they were sorry, but by being quick to admit that I was wrong and apologize first. The last time I left home to come back here, our 14 year old son was upset with me, I had told him that I was ashamed at the way he refused to work with me and his cousin. I only paid him a portion of the allowance I promised, I paid the greater sum to the cousin. I told him that I was ashamed and that I wouldn't allow that to ever happen again. He didn't talk to me for two days, he avoided even seeing me. The evening I was leaving, we were standing by the Maxi vann and he raced up on a motor bike with his friends, jumped off and ran over to give me a great big hug before I left. It shocked us all. I really believe that with love and patience we can get past a lot of cultural barriers that no amount of kicking, screaming or pounding of heads can break through.

Edited August 13, 2006 by soic

[sbk]

Excellent post soic, and so true.

My husband was raised the same, never a kind word or encouragement but always plenty of criticism. It seems that the better he does the more they find fault, even as an adult.

Fortunately my husband has learned what a loving supportive relationship can be like and has learned how to be positive too.

She and my sons have learned that it doesn't look bad if they admit they're wrong or have to say sorry, it looks bad if they can't or won't. I went out of my way to prove the point, not in forcing them to say they were sorry, but by being quick to admit that I was wrong and apologize first

this is such a good point I had to re quote it. This is so true, by opening up the door and being willing to admit error it makes it so much easier for the other person to do so as well.