Thanks sbk. It's just too easy to pick the negatives out of our cultures and throw up our hands and say there's nothing we can do about it. Love and patience can fix a lot more than yelling and screaming. I've also found that it's a lot easier to get someone to follow an example rather than being pushed into doing something they're not comfortable with.

good post soic, i like your approach.

Thanks! I do like peace and harmony... the only place I can find it is at home. I have enough trouble here, I don't want to have it at home too.

good post soic, i like your approach.

I simply refuse to argue. Nang and I have disagreements sometimes, everyone does. I refuse to fight with her though. I'll talk to her and explain what I think and she tells me the same, if she starts shouting, I put my hands up and tell her I'll come back later when she's ready to talk. If we can't come to an understanding about something, I'll tell her that I'm finished talking about it... we both know how the other one feels and that's just the way it is, we have to accept whatever it is. If I'm wrong, I'll say I'm wrong... I've noticed that she's started admitting that occassionally she can be wrong as well.

I still remember one of our major disagreements. I felt it was so odd that she could be so sweet and loving towards me, yet so short tempered with her sons. We lied awake one night talking about it for hours. Our 14 year old was giving us some problems. I asked her if she ever just sat and talked to him, or if she ever told him that she loved him. She said she only tells him to do something or yell; she said that Thai people don't tell their children that they love them. I told her that I didn't believe it, and even if it were true, I didn't want that to happen in our family. I made her promise that she would talk to him and tell him that she loved him the next day. I prodded her until she did it. They got a little teary eyed after talking for about 30 minutes, then she looked up and asked "ok?" I said that's sweet... now please give him a big hug. I had to beg her to do it... and I told her not a quick one, a real one. She gave him one and next thing I knew they were crying their hearts out and telling each other that they loved each other, Heck, it made me cry. Things have never went back to the way the were between them before. It's so nice to see the change.

I only say that to say that even though our cultures differ and we look at things different. It doesn't mean that we can't incorporate the best parts of both cultures into our relationships. I've learned patience and humility from my Thai family. I've learned to find happiness in small things and gestures. I believe that my family has learned how to express love and talk, if nothing else. We hug and tell each other that we love each other all the time. We go out of our way to show it too. That Thai pride, or the loss of face doesn't affect us at all. We've talked about those kinds of things a long time ago. She and my sons have learned that it doesn't look bad if they admit they're wrong or have to say sorry, it looks bad if they can't or won't. I went out of my way to prove the point, not in forcing them to say they were sorry, but by being quick to admit that I was wrong and apologize first. The last time I left home to come back here, our 14 year old son was upset with me, I had told him that I was ashamed at the way he refused to work with me and his cousin. I only paid him a portion of the allowance I promised, I paid the greater sum to the cousin. I told him that I was ashamed and that I wouldn't allow that to ever happen again. He didn't talk to me for two days, he avoided even seeing me. The evening I was leaving, we were standing by the Maxi vann and he raced up on a motor bike with his friends, jumped off and ran over to give me a great big hug before I left. It shocked us all. I really believe that with love and patience we can get past a lot of cultural barriers that no amount of kicking, screaming or pounding of heads can break through.

Beautiful post. It almost brought tears to my eyes just reading it. You couldn't be more right about teaching or showing a point through example.

my farang girl friend recently fought with her thai boyfriend, and they broke up. she confronted him about something he did wrong, and as is the western way things got a bit heated on her side. he refused to talk to her which made her even more worked up. obviously there are communication problems between the two cultures. thais avoid confrontation or analysis of serious subjects. farangs tend to like to get things all out in the open and examine them. we like to yell, it actually gives a lot of us satisfaction to fight since afterwards there is some sort of understanding and the bad feelings have been aired. whereas thais let things fester inside and then it might come out in other ways- violence, disappearing, depression to name a few. they also tend to avoid responsibility, ie. if they did something wrong it can be like pulling teeth to get them to admit or apologize for it. i have had this problem as well in the past and wafrustrated at how hard it was to resolve problems between myself and a thai... i am wondering how those of you with thai partners deal with things like this. surely as a foreigner in thailand you have to compromise a bit in your style of argument, but it seems to me that thais with a farang partner need to compromise as well. if one partner is angry about something, what is the best way to approach the other in this situation?

You just perfectly described my Thai wife. How do I handle it, you ask? Well I dont really. Like you I want to get everything out in the open and discuss it until it's resolved but she wont have it. If I go on too long she just breaks down and cries.

WOW, its like you guys are reading my mind. I get so angry at my wife for not talking to me when we have a problem. I try and talk to her but she just shut's down. Its like talking to a brick wall sometimes. She doesnt understand that I need to get theses things out in the open so that they dont fester.

Without wishing to pick a fight it seems that everyone who's posted on this thread assumes that the "western way" is the best way to sort out problems. It seems to be generally accepted that problems that aren't 'talked through' continue to fester yet Thai interactions that don't involve farang don't seem to need this contest of egos in order to find a 'winner'. Maybe that's because the concept of a 'winner' (someone who stands alone from the crowd) is not a particularly Thai concept. In a country where 'jai yen yen' is a way of life are you really surprised that arguments aren't popular?

I simply refuse to argue. Nang and I have disagreements sometimes, everyone does. I refuse to fight with her though. I'll talk to her and explain what I think and she tells me the same, if she starts shouting, I put my hands up and tell her I'll come back later when she's ready to talk. If we can't come to an understanding about something, I'll tell her that I'm finished talking about it... we both know how the other one feels and that's just the way it is, we have to accept whatever it is. If I'm wrong, I'll say I'm wrong... I've noticed that she's started admitting that occassionally she can be wrong as well.

I still remember one of our major disagreements. I felt it was so odd that she could be so sweet and loving towards me, yet so short tempered with her sons. We lied awake one night talking about it for hours. Our 14 year old was giving us some problems. I asked her if she ever just sat and talked to him, or if she ever told him that she loved him. She said she only tells him to do something or yell; she said that Thai people don't tell their children that they love them. I told her that I didn't believe it, and even if it were true, I didn't want that to happen in our family. I made her promise that she would talk to him and tell him that she loved him the next day. I prodded her until she did it. They got a little teary eyed after talking for about 30 minutes, then she looked up and asked "ok?" I said that's sweet... now please give him a big hug. I had to beg her to do it... and I told her not a quick one, a real one. She gave him one and next thing I knew they were crying their hearts out and telling each other that they loved each other, Heck, it made me cry. Things have never went back to the way the were between them before. It's so nice to see the change.

I only say that to say that even though our cultures differ and we look at things different. It doesn't mean that we can't incorporate the best parts of both cultures into our relationships. I've learned patience and humility from my Thai family. I've learned to find happiness in small things and gestures. I believe that my family has learned how to express love and talk, if nothing else. We hug and tell each other that we love each other all the time. We go out of our way to show it too. That Thai pride, or the loss of face doesn't affect us at all. We've talked about those kinds of things a long time ago. She and my sons have learned that it doesn't look bad if they admit they're wrong or have to say sorry, it looks bad if they can't or won't. I went out of my way to prove the point, not in forcing them to say they were sorry, but by being quick to admit that I was wrong and apologize first. The last time I left home to come back here, our 14 year old son was upset with me, I had told him that I was ashamed at the way he refused to work with me and his cousin. I only paid him a portion of the allowance I promised, I paid the greater sum to the cousin. I told him that I was ashamed and that I wouldn't allow that to ever happen again. He didn't talk to me for two days, he avoided even seeing me. The evening I was leaving, we were standing by the Maxi vann and he raced up on a motor bike with his friends, jumped off and ran over to give me a great big hug before I left. It shocked us all. I really believe that with love and patience we can get past a lot of cultural barriers that no amount of kicking, screaming or pounding of heads can break through.

I hope to one day have a family like this. I wish you and yours the best of luck in all that you do.

Laugh now cry later

Without wishing to pick a fight it seems that everyone who's posted on this thread assumes that the "western way" is the best way to sort out problems. It seems to be generally accepted that problems that aren't 'talked through' continue to fester yet Thai interactions that don't involve farang don't seem to need this contest of egos in order to find a 'winner'. Maybe that's because the concept of a 'winner' (someone who stands alone from the crowd) is not a particularly Thai concept. In a country where 'jai yen yen' is a way of life are you really surprised that arguments aren't popular?

I beg to differ endure. In a country where Jai yen is a way of life and arguments aren't popular I see an increase in explosive anger that usually ends up with one party dead. My personal experience with my thai husband is that when he did not deal with his anger and his problems he usually ended up exploding at someone, usually over something minor. Now that he has learned to deal with problems (and I am referring to serious issues, not minor annoyances) he no longer explodes but can handle even the smallest things in a much calmer manner.

my farang girl friend recently fought with her thai boyfriend, and they broke up. she confronted him about something he did wrong, and as is the western way things got a bit heated on her side. he refused to talk to her which made her even more worked up. obviously there are communication problems between the two cultures. thais avoid confrontation or analysis of serious subjects. farangs tend to like to get things all out in the open and examine them. we like to yell, it actually gives a lot of us satisfaction to fight since afterwards there is some sort of understanding and the bad feelings have been aired. whereas thais let things fester inside and then it might come out in other ways- violence, disappearing, depression to name a few. they also tend to avoid responsibility, ie. if they did something wrong it can be like pulling teeth to get them to admit or apologize for it. i have had this problem as well in the past and wafrustrated at how hard it was to resolve problems between myself and a thai... i am wondering how those of you with thai partners deal with things like this. surely as a foreigner in thailand you have to compromise a bit in your style of argument, but it seems to me that thais with a farang partner need to compromise as well. if one partner is angry about something, what is the best way to approach the other in this situation?

You just perfectly described my Thai wife. How do I handle it, you ask? Well I dont really. Like you I want to get everything out in the open and discuss it until it's resolved but she wont have it. If I go on too long she just breaks down and cries.

WOW, its like you guys are reading my mind. I get so angry at my wife for not talking to me when we have a problem. I try and talk to her but she just shut's down. Its like talking to a brick wall sometimes. She doesnt understand that I need to get theses things out in the open so that they dont fester.

When they won't talk or communicate about a problem, there's always "Nang Day". That's a day that I pick, not often enough, to take her somewhere and do something that she likes. It may be shopping, or a walk, or to get her hair and nails done. I spend the whole morning getting her ready for it... teasing, joking and laughing. Once she we get started and she starts to have a good time, we talk about everything but the problem, then later I ease in to it, by asking if it's alright to talk about that. If she tenses up, I back off, but eventually she'll start to feel bad for not talking. It's worth a shot. Our home isn't perfect, we still have our moments, but we've learned to work our way through them. There isn't a SINGLE winner, WE win, when an argument or fight is settled.

I beg to differ endure. In a country where Jai yen is a way of life and arguments aren't popular I see an increase in explosive anger that usually ends up with one party dead.

i have to agree with SBK here. i know of 2 people who have been shot in the last two weeks over issues that could have been worked out rationally if the shooter had taken the time out to analyze it. another guy killed himself because of the same. it seems sad to me to trade the jai yen yen philosophy for death, but it happens a lot.

Great post and thanks for sharing your experiences. As a farang with a thai wife, I feel what most of you are saying. We do have our share of arguments (way too many over the smallest things) and who's to say which approach is right or wrong in terms of culture differences. In reality, most often we know if we are right or not. The difficulty is finding a calm and sensible solution to the problem at hand.

These posts have taught me how to handle certain arguments differently and I think they would benefit the other half tremendously as well. I say this because it's always my point of view (in her mind) and if I can somehow show her that "my" or "farang thinking" is different from hers, because of culture differences and not because of me trying to be difficult, it would be helpful.

This may be an odd request or maybe there's a magic translation button. Is it possible to get a thai translation of posts of this topic besides having someone translate sentence for sentence. She's speaks pretty good english but reading is a hurdle. In any case, I expect the answer to be NO and I'm going to go through this thread with her anyways.

Any comments welcomed.

Great post and thanks for sharing your experiences. As a farang with a thai wife, I feel what most of you are saying. We do have our share of arguments (way too many over the smallest things) and who's to say which approach is right or wrong in terms of culture differences. In reality, most often we know if we are right or not. The difficulty is finding a calm and sensible solution to the problem at hand.

These posts have taught me how to handle certain arguments differently and I think they would benefit the other half tremendously as well. I say this because it's always my point of view (in her mind) and if I can somehow show her that "my" or "farang thinking" is different from hers, because of culture differences and not because of me trying to be difficult, it would be helpful.

This may be an odd request or maybe there's a magic translation button. Is it possible to get a thai translation of posts of this topic besides having someone translate sentence for sentence. She's speaks pretty good english but reading is a hurdle. In any case, I expect the answer to be NO and I'm going to go through this thread with her anyways.

Any comments welcomed.

I can't help you with the Thai, but if you ever want to talk or need some ideas, my email address is [email protected] That goes for all of you in this forum. I don't know much, but I do know what has worked for me and my wife. Good luck to you!!!

Didn't really expect the translation and thanks for the offer.

The missus hasn't gone through the thread yet. I've mentioned it but not going to push. We'll see what happens...

some great info here tnx all for posting.

i am planning to marry my thai gf and move with her to spain if i can.

we met online so ive yet to live with her but will do for a few months in thailand before we marry.ive learned alot already how i shud deal with her just from reading this thread!

myself i tend to avoid confrontation like shouting etc but do like to discuss problems to fix them.hopefully that will give me a good headstart hehe.

does anyone have a link i can send to my thai gf for a thai site or forum to teach her about dealing with farang and other things like visa's etc?

I'm quite happy now that we just say a few words to each other and she swtiches on the tv and I switch on the computer and we just try to avoid each other for a couple of hours. Gotta avoid that 'heat'!

LOL this is really funny, my husband & I have our own offices partly for this reason too. Mine has a tv, my laptop & work desk & phone, his has his computer, guitars & a jeep camp bed where he lays to watch thai tv on the computer or listen to his music. Having this space actually means that when one is annoying the other we have places to go to get away & have some "me" time.

Posting this before I read the next two pages of this thread, so I may be going over old ground.

On and I had a bit of an argument last night, we are having an extra room added on the side of the house at the moment, at about 4pm I went to get our little one from school, before I left she expressed a want to go out with me for a Friday night beer..... no problem.... just make sure that the hole in the wall is secure. (she doesn't drink alcohol, but does like to socialise with a couple of the Mia Farang)

Upon my return, the builders had gone home for the day and the hole in wall was being secured by having the new door leaned against it...... "so, one of us has to stay home" ..... instant sulk.

I simply told her "I didn't knock out the hole in the wall, and I didn't fail to make sure that nobody could just walk into the house if we aren't here, so please don't take it out on me" ..... calm voice, no shouting ..... but still the Incredible Sulk.

I went for a beer.

Three hours later she called Loong Dang who passed me the mobile "Hello darling, what time are you coming home, can you come home soon and bring some chicken"

Problem sorted, she just needed time to think about how stupid the argument was, the fact that it wasn't really an argument and more importantly, what happened was completely out of my control.

Space, the first frontier

i greatly dislike the thai concept of face

Like it, hate it, doesn't matter, you have to understand the concept of face, its your greatest weapon when dealing with Thais. You might disagree with it, but in the end you have to use it. If you dont adhere to the rules of 'face' in this country when dealing with the Thais you'll never be able to reach compromises with them and you'll forever be frustrated when arguing with them.

Agreed 100 percent ..... then try to understand the concept of 'kreng jai' and how it applies to you. (apologies for the bad phonetics)

surely as a foreigner in thailand you have to compromise a bit in your style of argument, --------

what is the best way to approach the other in this situation?

Avoid getting into an argument with a Thai friend at all costs. I am quite happy to say exactly what I think to someone who I don't have a personal relationship with, like someone who works in a shop or something like that. Thais I have to see regularly or Thai friends, I would avoid arguments with.

I take the view that avoiding arguments with anyone is usually a good idea, but not necessarily always the best idea.

There are times when push really does come to shove, then the only decision is 'Do I really need to have this person on my side?"

If the answer is no, or if they've really p1ssed me off then I find all the rules that Thais have about what WE shouldn't do/say to avoid upsetting THEM become very useful means to really p1ss a Thai off who has it coming.

I don't do that "I must respect them in their own country thing" - I start with respecting everyone, if they prove me wrong then I don't have a problem letting them know.

I take the view that avoiding arguments with anyone is usually a good idea, but not necessarily always the best idea.

There are times when push really does come to shove, then the only decision is 'Do I really need to have this person on my side?"

If the answer is no, or if they've really p1ssed me off then I find all the rules that Thais have about what WE shouldn't do/say to avoid upsetting THEM become very useful means to really p1ss a Thai off who has it coming.

I don't do that "I must respect them in their own country thing" - I start with respecting everyone, if they prove me wrong then I don't have a problem letting them know.

Here's the rub..... I have arguments with On.... they aren't really arguments, more like errors in communication, and the same thing happens nearly every time..... I get the silent treatment (this has been mentioned either in this thread or another one before) but when the silent treatment has abated, it's back to normal, no discussion is wanted or required (she will never be wrong, occasionally she may grant me the gift of being right on every now and again, but she will never be wrong)..... I can live with that, it isn't a problem.

She's my wife, my soul mate (not my sole mate) and therefore we both understand that we have to get through this life together and when we hit a junction point where maybe we didn't understand how we were both supposed to react under the given circumstances, she reacts her way and I react mine and eventually we come to the same point (takes her longer, 'cos she is as thick as pig swill..... joke)

But that is inside our life..... I know better than to argue with a extraneous entity that isn't within our family circle..... she knew that long before I did.

Argue with a Thai = you lose

Argue with a Thai taxi driver = you lose and you get charged a higher rate, and have to go 15km further than you need to.

Argue with Thai authority = bad idea

When I first opened a bank account in LOS, I did all that was requested of me, when I went to collect the ATM Card I noticed that something wasn't quite right with it, and I checked the details of the pass-book again....... "hang-on ...... they have missed of the last letter of my surname" .... mistake was pointed out and we asked them, nicely, if they could correct it....... nope, despite the fact that 'they' had copied the details from my Passport incorrectly, I had to go to a local shop and make more copies of the relevant pages (there was a photocopier in the bank, but the engineer hadn't trained them on the use of the 'On' button yet) they closed the first account, after giving me the necessary sum back required to open it, and we went though the entire process again.

Did I grimace..... yes, of course I did...... inwardly.

Did I smile throughout the entire event..... of course I did

Chinese Thais know exactly how to treat Thai Thais who are giving out <deleted>.

Chinese Thais know exactly how to treat Thai Thais who are giving out <deleted>.

Can we have a quick count in the forum ..... would all the Chinese Thais put your hand up now.

It's quite true, but not really relevant in here is it

I'm basing my 'knee jerk' response, on the fact that I am not Thai/Chinese..... I don't think you are (I may be wrong)..... and I really dislike the word '<deleted>'

Edited September 3, 200619 yr by Thaddeus

A wife married to a thai man arguing with him is very dangerous from what i have seen.

Dont push their buttons, it will become violent.

-nam

i greatly dislike the thai concept of face

Like it, hate it, doesn't matter, you have to understand the concept of face, its your greatest weapon when dealing with Thais. You might disagree with it, but in the end you have to use it. If you dont adhere to the rules of 'face' in this country when dealing with the Thais you'll never be able to reach compromises with them and you'll forever be frustrated when arguing with them.

totally agree with the above

only visited 3 times (3 days 3 weeks 5 weeks)

but love the country and most of the people most of the time

+ some of the people all the time

when I first started working many many years ago

I learnt to make the system work for you and NOT you for it

as the system,be it a culture or whatever,was there before you

and it will still be there after you have gone

all you can do is try to work with it and learn from it

then bend it to your needs till young's modulus is nearly exceded