Eric Garner: No charges in NY chokehold case

[Dirk_brijs]

Now with all respect to the victim and I sure don't approve on what might or might not have happened but what would you like to law enforcement officer to do nowadays?

You know how many nut cases run around with guns and stuff, You know how many police officers get shot and beaten every single day?

So what is a police officer to do .....

Sir please can I see your ID

NO

please sir can I have you name

NO please sir

I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG LEAVE ME ALONE

ok sir have a good day........

I don't know what is wrong with society nowadays but it seem all pity goes to the criminals in these days.....

if a cop asks for your ID or your NAME just give it to the damn man don't argue with them if you didnt do nothing wrong why would you????

I was stopped by police asking for my ID and my name and was brought to a police office for some questioning I respectfully replied all questions and sat and waited ti ll they came tell me they found who they were looking for as a burglary had happened in the neighborhood by someone fitting my description and I AM WHITE. Again those guys are trying to do their job and it aint an easy one as I said every window that is turned down every door that opens could have a gun sticking out of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/15/gunman-sought-after-denver-area-police-officer-shot-wounded-during-traffic-stop/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officer-wounded-shooting-ferguson/story?id=27157542

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/story/27446074/2014/11/20/phoenix-police-officer-injured-in-shooting

or maybe when you become police officer you have to expect to get shot ???

I say respect and you will be respected.

[F430murci]

Not good and this does not sound very good either.

----------

Cleveland officer who killed boy, 12, was previously deemed unfit for duty

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cleveland-officer-who-killed-boy-12-was-previously-deemed-unfit-for-duty/ar-BBgj757?ocid=iehp

[Ulysses G.]

I almost hate to admit that I found this amusing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyMuLGXxTs

[cup-O-coffee]

I can understand why some people can see this as brutality, and perhaps even outright murder, but I can also objectively see other factors going on here in the video which are not visible in the video, yet contribute to situations like this, which end in grief, sorrow and tragedy.

Some of these factors I would like to have answers to are:

• What words exactly were exchanged?
• Why was Mr. Garner the only one who was noticeably agitated and getting more and more upset and out of control?
• Why would a police officer calmly standing around him and endeavoring to gather information from Mr. Garner cause Mr. Garner to behave this way?
• Would it not be reasonable for other officers to note this erratic behavior and be attracted to it, and to approach and stand there with their fellow officer?
• What led up to the contact?
• Why would Mr. Garner tell officer, "Don't touch me." and then resist?
• What kind of stress are police in inner city, primarily black populated areas, up against?
• Are police overworked and stretched thin in these locations?
• Are the expectations of police too high in a real life situation, where the police must follow a code, and the person they are trying to deal with does not?
• How many police officers would admit to real fear when called into known troubled areas?
• How many police officers get home at night and give thanks to be able to see their home one more time, or drink the days events into oblivion?
• How many police are fed up with the fact that they go off duty, after busting their bums at a hard days work, yet crime never goes off duty, and they report the next day with double the work?

There are so many factors going on which are not seen in the video, that I simply cannot draw any conclusion merely on what the officers or Mr. Garner did, which resulted in his untimely death.

One thing for sure, a death, in and of itself, does not justify one view or another until all the factors can be truthfully looked into; factors, I fear will rather be overlooked and regretfully cause even more unreasonable expectations and stressors placed on the police, whilst relieving the black populations in these inner cities even more free to "express" themselves with full immunity; completely exonerated of any responsibility and empowered with full entitlement. The cold hard statistics and the 99 million other videos on YouTube would strongly suggest this implied imbalance, and the irony in focusing on the water instead of the broken plumbing fixture.

In other words, the police would not have to even be there if..., now would they? When blacks (and this is another black issue) can justify the if, then we won't need police, now will we?

Edited December 5, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[Ulysses G.]

• Why was Mr. Garner the only one who was noticeably agitated and getting more and more upset and out of control?

He was the only one being arrested for a very minor and rather silly crime. I don't blame him for being pissed off, but it never pays to argue with police - as was proven here very effectively.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[cup-O-coffee]

• Why was Mr. Garner the only one who was noticeably agitated and getting more and more upset and out of control?

He was the only one being arrested for a very minor and rather silly crime. I don't blame him for being pissed off, but it never pays to argue with police - as was proven here very effectively.

I agree and understand Mr. Garner being upset, but once a police officer reports to a scene (and I don't know what got them there) they are compelled by law to see things through. If a crime has been committed, the officer must act on account of the law and cannot make the decision to excuse the broken law or "be cool" and let everyone walk away. It's a quick trip to the station and a bail and report to the judge to be heard and then get the verdict.

The point of all this is to not break the law, yet when the law comes calling and a law has been broken, one should be intelligent enough to understand that they can't simply leave without someone going to the police station for questioning and/or an arrest... or, simply be stupid and learn the hard way not to break the law, or simply be completely stupid and be a repeat offender and a repeat resistor.

Another way to look at this, from a black person's point of view, is do not give someone (another black person?) a reason to feel fear and dial 911 to have the police show up.

I wonder how long it will be before the blacks get it into their heads to bait police into showing up at staged scenes and try to get them to do something controversial so everyone present beforehand can get onto YouTube? And what does that say about cramming the system with prank calls for help, when others really need help?

[Scott]

A post with oversized font has been removed along with replies. Please use the forum default font.

[Morch]

Why Everyone Is Talking About 'Do the Right Thing' Today

More than 25 years since its release, Spike Lee’s Do The Right Thing has never seemed more pertinent, thanks to two recent grand jury decisions.

Lee’s 1989 film, about a diverse Brooklyn neighborhood boiling in racial tension on a hot summer day, ends with an African-American man dying at the hands of white police officers. It was restaged as a live reading last week at Lincoln Center by Fruitvale Station director Ryan Coogler, who told New York that he saw a link between Do the Right Thing's climax and the August choking death of Eric Garner, which came at the hands of an NYPD officer.

Though some particular details had changed, the fundamental images in the film and footage of the Garner tragedy were shockingly similar: Several police officers grabbing hold of an unarmed black man and choking him, silencing his cries and breath amid pandemonium on the street.

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/do-the-right-thing-eric-garner-more-than-25-years-104325899327.html

That was the first thing that came into my mind as well after the story ran.

Saw the film back then and left a mark, definitely worth watching again.

[up-country_sinclair]

Radio Raheem.

[Ulysses G.]

One response by a black man.

[Chicog]

• Why was Mr. Garner the only one who was noticeably agitated and getting more and more upset and out of control?

He was the only one being arrested for a very minor and rather silly crime. I don't blame him for being pissed off, but it never pays to argue with police - as was proven here very effectively.

And it very definitely doesn't pay to argue with American police if you are a black man.

[Ulysses G.]

it very definitely doesn't pay to argue with American police if you are any race and don't have LOTS of money.

[F430murci]

This makes the choke hold seem like child's play. Brutal people the cops have to deal with on a daily basis.

----------

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh9VW0ons0QCNR7M2D

[bkkcanuck8]

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

I have to agree with you on this one. We as a society give the police certain powers and protection from prosecution when using those powers -- but it ends when the police officer acts outside of what he is allowed to do.

[bkkcanuck8]

it very definitely doesn't pay to argue with American police if you are any race and don't have LOTS of money.

Don't argue with the police. If the police officer places you under arrest, don't resist just go to the police station. After you arrive at the police station, if you feel like you have been wrongfully arrested, then call a lawyer.... for penny-ante stuff like this he would have been free and back on the street as soon as they processed the paperwork.

Edited December 5, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[DM07]

This makes the choke hold seem like child's play. Brutal people the cops have to deal with on a daily basis.

----------

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh9VW0ons0QCNR7M2D

Some people:"Seems that Garner was a victim of police- brutality..."

F430murci:"...but...but...but..other people...in totally unrelated other cases..."

[mania]

Having only seen the vid on the lead story post

I would have to say threat/risk assessment out the window on this one.

Yes cops deal with heavy hitters daily but this guy also had a history & they knew what it was.

It was not a history of violence etc.

They were at least 4 armed cops surrounding him. Threat/risk was as close to 0 as could

be. The cops felt the same way as shown by none having any weapons drawn

For the one guy who seems to be maybe ATF? (guessing by the clothes he has on)

To without strong reason to come up from behind this guy & grab him by his neck is beyond

reasonable IMHO

I accept it is not an easy job but 1st rule of this job is to protect & serve. They all by their actions agreed

he was not a threat to others...no weapons drawn.. Sad this happened especially now when tensions

over other cases are high.

They had time & could have handled it much better than jumping the guys neck from behind to expediate

the capture/charging of this man

[Chicog]

Having only seen the vid on the lead story post

I would have to say threat/risk assessment out the window on this one.

Yes cops deal with heavy hitters daily but this guy also had a history & they knew what it was.

It was not a history of violence etc.

They were at least 4 armed cops surrounding him. Threat/risk was as close to 0 as could

be. The cops felt the same way as shown by none having any weapons drawn

For the one guy who seems to be maybe ATF? (guessing by the clothes he has on)

To without strong reason to come up from behind this guy & grab him by his neck is beyond

reasonable IMHO

I accept it is not an easy job but 1st rule of this job is to protect & serve. They all by their actions agreed

he was not a threat to others...no weapons drawn.. Sad this happened especially now when tensions

over other cases are high.

They had time & could have handled it much better than jumping the guys neck from behind to expediate

the capture/charging of this man

Not dissimilar to the 12 year old getting shot. Instead of managing the situation they just sped right up to him and executed him within three seconds.

Turns out one of the cops was actually fired from his previous police job:

Nearly two years before he shot and killed a 12-year-oldwho had an air gun, Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann resigned from another police job after a supervisor described him as "distracted and weepy" and "emotionally immature."

Records from the Independence Police Department obtained by CNN include comments from a supervisor detailing what they called "a pattern of lack of maturity, indiscretion and not following instructions," a "dangerous loss of composure during live range training" and an "inability to manage personal stress."

"I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies," Independence Deputy Chief Jim Polak wrote in a November 2012 memo.

How can people have faith in Police departments if they can't even properly vet their own recruits for heaven's sake?

[cup-O-coffee]

Having only seen the vid on the lead story post

I would have to say threat/risk assessment out the window on this one.

Yes cops deal with heavy hitters daily but this guy also had a history & they knew what it was.

It was not a history of violence etc.

They were at least 4 armed cops surrounding him. Threat/risk was as close to 0 as could

be. The cops felt the same way as shown by none having any weapons drawn

For the one guy who seems to be maybe ATF? (guessing by the clothes he has on)

To without strong reason to come up from behind this guy & grab him by his neck is beyond

reasonable IMHO

I accept it is not an easy job but 1st rule of this job is to protect & serve. They all by their actions agreed

he was not a threat to others...no weapons drawn.. Sad this happened especially now when tensions

over other cases are high.

They had time & could have handled it much better than jumping the guys neck from behind to expediate

the capture/charging of this man

I am having a hard time with this one. The thing that is keeping me in check is the factor of ow difficult it must be to be a white police officer on duty in in these crime ridden slums, overloaded with a very large imbalance of government and civil rights favoritism.

What was once a simple matter of asking nicely and getting a polite and understandable response, has now evolved into an argumentive, contentious, whining, complaining, accusing, hate-filled, threatening (etc.), response with others.

Now anyone can cry police brutality, and I won't argue that, but if we are going to be fair about this, then we simply cannot exclude the stress and demands and expectations being placed on these officers from their own superiors and special interest groups and defense attorneys, in addition to the hate being stirred up and directed at them from these same people, as well as the hate on the streets from pure and simple ignorance and pure evil.

There is simply too much going on here, and focusing on one event whilst excluding all the contributing factors will drive any kind of solution right into the sewers.

Police are people too, and I can understand why any person would experience PTSD after being a police officer in these kinds of conditions day in and day out.

And another thing, police weren't always like this. People should ask how we got here, and follow that train of thought giving due diligence to honesty before pinning all the blame on them.

I am not defending their actions, yet nor am I justifying Mr. Garner's.

[mania]

Having only seen the vid on the lead story post

I would have to say threat/risk assessment out the window on this one.

Yes cops deal with heavy hitters daily but this guy also had a history & they knew what it was.

It was not a history of violence etc.

They were at least 4 armed cops surrounding him. Threat/risk was as close to 0 as could

be. The cops felt the same way as shown by none having any weapons drawn

For the one guy who seems to be maybe ATF? (guessing by the clothes he has on)

To without strong reason to come up from behind this guy & grab him by his neck is beyond

reasonable IMHO

I accept it is not an easy job but 1st rule of this job is to protect & serve. They all by their actions agreed

he was not a threat to others...no weapons drawn.. Sad this happened especially now when tensions

over other cases are high.

They had time & could have handled it much better than jumping the guys neck from behind to expediate

the capture/charging of this man

I am having a hard time with this one. The thing that is keeping me in check is the factor of ow difficult it must be to be a white police officer on duty in in these crime ridden slums, overloaded with a very large imbalance of government and civil rights favoritism.

What was once a simple matter of asking nicely and getting a polite and understandable response, has now evolved into an argumentive, contentious, whining, complaining, accusing, hate-filled, threatening (etc.), response with others.

Now anyone can cry police brutality, and I won't argue that, but if we are going to be fair about this, then we simply cannot exclude the stress and demands and expectations being placed on these officers from their own superiors and special interest groups and defense attorneys, in addition to the hate being stirred up and directed at them from these same people, as well as the hate on the streets from pure and simple ignorance and pure evil.

There is simply too much going on here, and focusing on one event whilst excluding all the contributing factors will drive any kind of solution right into the sewers.

Police are people too, and I can understand why any person would experience PTSD after being a police officer in these kinds of conditions day in and day out.

And another thing, police weren't always like this. People should ask how we got here, and follow that train of thought giving due diligence to honesty before pinning all the blame on them.

I am not defending their actions, yet nor am I justifying Mr. Garner's.

No problem & for the most part I agree with what your saying about the task of being an officer is not easy

especially in some racially charged cities.

But what I was pointing out is risk assessment & in this case the guy had a history...a non violent one.

So I only question the need to take him down as the one guy did from behind.

None of the others seemed the least bit threatened nor even upset by the exchange that was going on.

Of course none expect them to stand there all day begging the guy to cooperate either.

But given the lack of risk at least try a bit of reasoning & flat out tell him calmly...

Look you have a choice...get cuffed & come with us for this offense or you will likely get tazed & carried in.

They can spend hours talking some wanna be jumper nut off a ledge. Surely they can spend a little time reasoning with

a non violent offender before going physical in the manner the one guy did. There was at least 4 cops there

They could easily grab this guy in a better way.

I agree the job is hard but at the same time if this same scenario had been played out anywhere in the world

again........given the guys history.........there would be a lot of questions to answer

Imagine even Thailand you read about a falang who has been fined a few times for what ever misdemeanor

Today the paper reads...once again same misdemeanor so we had to take him down after he did not cooperate.

Subject then died due to extenuating/health reasons...........I imagine the papers would be pretty filled with questions same as now.

Again I totally get the task at hand is not easy.

I understand why some cops are mentally fatigued. But stuff like this continues & they

will be much more stressed & fatigued. A bit of education on risk analysis would help

[cup-O-coffee]

Having only seen the vid on the lead story post

I would have to say threat/risk assessment out the window on this one.

Yes cops deal with heavy hitters daily but this guy also had a history & they knew what it was.

It was not a history of violence etc.

They were at least 4 armed cops surrounding him. Threat/risk was as close to 0 as could

be. The cops felt the same way as shown by none having any weapons drawn

For the one guy who seems to be maybe ATF? (guessing by the clothes he has on)

To without strong reason to come up from behind this guy & grab him by his neck is beyond

reasonable IMHO

I accept it is not an easy job but 1st rule of this job is to protect & serve. They all by their actions agreed

he was not a threat to others...no weapons drawn.. Sad this happened especially now when tensions

over other cases are high.

They had time & could have handled it much better than jumping the guys neck from behind to expediate

the capture/charging of this man

I am having a hard time with this one. The thing that is keeping me in check is the factor of ow difficult it must be to be a white police officer on duty in in these crime ridden slums, overloaded with a very large imbalance of government and civil rights favoritism.

What was once a simple matter of asking nicely and getting a polite and understandable response, has now evolved into an argumentive, contentious, whining, complaining, accusing, hate-filled, threatening (etc.), response with others.

Now anyone can cry police brutality, and I won't argue that, but if we are going to be fair about this, then we simply cannot exclude the stress and demands and expectations being placed on these officers from their own superiors and special interest groups and defense attorneys, in addition to the hate being stirred up and directed at them from these same people, as well as the hate on the streets from pure and simple ignorance and pure evil.

There is simply too much going on here, and focusing on one event whilst excluding all the contributing factors will drive any kind of solution right into the sewers.

Police are people too, and I can understand why any person would experience PTSD after being a police officer in these kinds of conditions day in and day out.

And another thing, police weren't always like this. People should ask how we got here, and follow that train of thought giving due diligence to honesty before pinning all the blame on them.

I am not defending their actions, yet nor am I justifying Mr. Garner's.

No problem & for the most part I agree with what your saying about the task of being an officer is not easy

especially in some racially charged cities.

But what I was pointing out is risk assessment & in this case the guy had a history...a non violent one.

So I only question the need to take him down as the one guy did from behind.

None of the others seemed the least bit threatened nor even upset by the exchange that was going on.

Of course none expect them to stand there all day begging the guy to cooperate either.

But given the lack of risk at least try a bit of reasoning & flat out tell him calmly...

Look you have a choice...get cuffed & come with us for this offense or you will likely get tazed & carried in.

They can spend hours talking some wanna be jumper nut off a ledge. Surely they can spend a little time reasoning with

a non violent offender before going physical in the manner the one guy did. There was at least 4 cops there

They could easily grab this guy in a better way.

I agree the job is hard but at the same time if this same scenario had been played out anywhere in the world

again........given the guys history.........there would be a lot of questions to answer

Imagine even Thailand you read about a falang who has been fined a few times for what ever misdemeanor

Today the paper reads...once again same misdemeanor so we had to take him down after he did not cooperate.

Subject then died due to extenuating/health reasons...........I imagine the papers would be pretty filled with questions same as now.

Again I totally get the task at hand is not easy.

I understand why some cops are mentally fatigued. But stuff like this continues & they

will be much more stressed & fatigued. A bit of education on risk analysis would help

Agree with what you say. The guy that jumped Mr. Garner seemed to have different clothing on (a number 99 green shirt) and I wonder what his capacity was (undercover? off-duty?), but he did seem eager to put on the choke hold.

I agree that the situation could have been handled better, and I agree that an employee of any government needs to be up on these situations before going in to them. I also think that employees who hold these positions, where their lives are clearly at risk, need to have some kind of support and appreciation from not only their superiors, civil rights groups and such, but also from the community where they work.

Let's ask the community, "What would you do in this situation?", and let's let their answers be the way that the situation is handled (as long as it is within the law and the statutes). Furthermore, let's let the community be empowered to inform their own neighbors and gangs that this is what the officers have agreed to, and this is what the officers expect when arriving at a scene where immediate action is not required, and moreover a polite and professional discussion is due.

I think that the community and the police have lost touch with each other, and that there needs to be some reasonable and reliable form of communication and expectations that both parties can depend upon when a situation like this arises. Let's cut out the middlemen, who seem more interested in agendas, and put the community and their officers assigned to them face to face. This is what we expect and this is what we expect and agree upon it and stick to it.

I do not think this would ever happen, though, as the bias and hatred seems to be stirred up more in the community than in those sworn to protect them. The fatigue statement is an understatement, in my view. Any human being can take only so much. Not an excuse, but definitely a factor that requires support and re-energizing to the goal of upholding the law with a good heart towards the community.

[JemJem]

Once again, victory (!) for 'thugs in uniform'.

Sad. Very sad for humanity.

[uptheos]

Once the police move in the person knows they're going to be arrested. Why not simply put hands behind back and face the wall, save all the grief.

If someone doesn't succumb and starts moving away or waving their arms, the police can't second guess his next move.

However, once he was down there seemed no further need for a neck hold or to push his face into the ground.

From what I saw the actions on the ground were really excessive and I think the police should be charged.

[Credo]

Perhaps there are just too many white police officers in areas where there is a high minority population.

[H1w4yR1da]

Or maybe there's too much crime in areas where there is a high minority population

[Roadman]

One response by a black man.

Well siad young man. Respect to a lot of basic common sense.

[Roadman]

Perhaps there are just too many white police officers in areas where there is a high minority population.

From what I understand the lead cop in charge of this was a black female? So could be an issue elsewhere but not here so then throw out a few prejudices (colour and red-neck male) and come right back to the start. And at the start the question I always have of not only the Afro American races but also other races that were fully tribal 150 years ago (and in that is there possibly the answer?) in other countries with the same issues, is, why not do like whitees mostly do and abide to the cops request right at the start instead of immediately heading down the path of resistance which is then openly the door to reaping what you sow. And skin colour does not come into it here as I would guess it does not in the USA for those who wish to head down that path. Agree fully with the dude in the video that Ullyses posted. Nothing is going to change unless these people start taking responsibility for their bro's, their own hoods and their own actions. Them and their bro's are what is creating most of the crap they find themselves in, not society as a whole. While there is the odd cop out there out of line it becomes a bit more difficult to nail them down when they are constantly being faced by a community or group who cannot have any respect for themselves, their families and their own neighbourhoods, let alone the next step up of authority.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Roadman

[up-country_sinclair]

I watched this video again last night, and amazingly it's become even more troubling to me. It's not the fact that Garner was only targeted because he was selling single cigarettes for 50 cents, and it's not the fact that the police officers used a deadly choke hold. What's most troubling to me is the knowledge that the prosecutor chose not to indict. An indictment is not a guilty verdict. It only means that a trial to establish guilt or innocence can move forward. Watching that video knowing that that "the system" would determine that a trial wasn't at least warranted should be troubling to everyone interested in justice.

[Loptr]

Once you get past all the hysteria surrounding the Brown and Garner cases, the one thing that is evident is that the US has a police brutality problem... A big one... In both of these case, deadly force could have been avoided through tactics... Had the officer in the Brown case waited for backup, the situation may have ended differently... In the Garner case, there were plenty of officers to subdue the man without having to use deadly force... They could have tazed him, then subdued him... All conjecture though as that is not what happened... Yes, cops have a tough job, but it appears that they are no longer on the street to "protect and serve"...

At 1:00 minute into this video the police shoot and kill a person that was handcuffed and in custody... He was forced to the ground face first and shot in the back... There is 1.5 hours of this type of behavior on this one video... The point is that this is not a racial issue, which sadly those in power and the media are trying to make it... It is a problem of unrestrained aggression against the very people these "officers" are employed to protect... I'll take the BiB groping me along Asoke any day as opposed to the police state that has become the USSA...

[muffy]

Easy to look back at police actions and have all the solutions . Police are there to act not to wait and hold hands with suspects . Garner died from being a physical wreck and resisting . Garner is worth more dead than alive , maybe the family will get off welfare now .

Edited December 8, 2014 by muffy