Surge of reported police harassment suggests campaign targeting tourists, expats

[granuaile]

No, but there are many trying to denigrate Thailand and make the country seem like the pits using any excuse. They are using Thai visa as a platform to push out their hatred of Thailand and all things Thai.

I do wonder who or what are these people and what are the real motives behind them? Are these people some kinds of political opponents giving the semblance of being ex-pats? At one time I were thinking I was becoming paranoid, but these people, who and wherever they are seem to be determined to get their points across, and will make personal insults and try to overpower those who go against the grain with them, which is how extremists operate.

These people who appear intent on causing strife are certainly of no benefits to the ex-pats who have settled in Thailand and quite content with their lifestyles here, they only make the Thais have even more suspicions and tighten up the rules for us and do admit I have a profound dislike of them.

They always come out in these threads, like an infestation by rats and roaches, hiding behind the anonymity of their avatars (which may not be as anonymous as they think). I have come to have an intense disdain and dislike for them as well....

[green job]

...

Could it be we have a few drama queens on Thaivisa?

More than a few, many with an ax to grind, many who jump on the wagon to bash Thai people and Thailand. If they are actually even here, they have the choice to leave and if they hate it so much they should. I would suggest Syria or Iraq to them... There is a significant group here who will seize any opportunity to criticize this country and its people. If these people are the ones being targeted maybe it is because their attitude shows through. I definitely shouldn't let them annoy me. as they really post without substance and facts (even the so-called first hand accounts are not independently verifiable) but honestly I love Thailand and the people here. Thailand has been very good to me, and I'm grateful for the ability to live here.

To be fair Lov, They are hardly going to stop you,and ask you,to pee in a bottle,are they?

[Suriya4]

Thong Lor in BKK, right? Nice click bait, has nothing to do with the most common tourist destinations.

Well in America The Police shoot Their Black Citizens

Now that is Harassment

In Thailand what they doing is livable

To be fair, in America The Police shoot Their Yellow Citizens too. And White, and Brown, and Red . . . .

[granuaile]

Because the cops will open up and admit there's a shake down going on?

Very disingenuous to the posters who have been stopped !!

Posters who have claimed they were stopped. However, have they presented any independent verification, no.... They just claim it and they may have - they should just live with it. In the US, I've been stopped more than once, and jumped through the hoops - if it happened here it is same. Smile and be cooperative... I have no problem with that.

[Boxclever]

Are these REALLY police or are they those local council "cigarette" police? Their uniforms are exactly the same only they don't carry guns. I don't think it's the BIB doing the shake downs but rather the footpath police.

[CarlTyson]

I was watching the litter police do their thing in the Nana area.

There are about 12 of these predators stalking farang cigarette smokers.

They each nab 2 or 3 tourists per hour I estimate. Thats 192 - 288 tourists being harassed & fined 2,000Bt. every day.

The motive?384,000Bt - 576,000Bt per day. OR 12,000,000Bt - 18,000,000Bt per month!

[lostinisaan]

So who is this English guy?

Then this English guy crosses the road and says Youve been acting suspicious ... I want to see your passport,' he recounted."

Since when can Brits, or indeed any other foreigner, ask to see a passport?

They had a German guy working for Immigration in Jontiem last year.

I doubt that the German guy worked for the Immigration. Maybe the tourist police? It's so easy to make something up, right?

[zydeco]

I was watching the litter police do their thing in the Nana area.

There are about 12 of these predators stalking farang cigarette smokers.

They each nab 2 or 3 tourists per hour I estimate. Thats 192 - 288 tourists being harassed & fined 2,000Bt. every day.

The motive?384,000Bt - 576,000Bt per day. OR 12,000,000Bt - 18,000,000Bt per month!

That's a lot of money! I wish I could get one of the worthless layabouts in my wife's family to get on the force.

[green job]

Some of these apologists would like us all to disregard the hoards of first person accounts of the harassment. Because it hasn't happened to them, head in the sand. It's real, get a clue. Just carry your passport and pee in a bottle on the side of the road, don't worry, it's all good. What <deleted> some people are, like sheep.

What did you say,Some people like sheep????

[green job]

I was watching the litter police do their thing in the Nana area.

There are about 12 of these predators stalking farang cigarette smokers.

They each nab 2 or 3 tourists per hour I estimate. Thats 192 - 288 tourists being harassed & fined 2,000Bt. every day.

The motive?384,000Bt - 576,000Bt per day. OR 12,000,000Bt - 18,000,000Bt per month!

That's a lot of money! I wish I could get one of the worthless layabouts in my wife's family to get on the force.

Now thats more like it,a down to earth post,great one

[Tchooptip]

''When he couldn’t produce, he says they forced him to drink four liters of water and pressed forcefully on his bladder to make him urinate and touched his penis.''

I do not believe any one could drink 4 litters of water, I could not...Could you?

[jpeg]

What did you say,Some people like sheep????

Yes, the Welsh and the Kiwis, allegedly

[easylondon]

i was the person made to drink 4 litres of water at thong lo...trust me when i tell you the experiance was far more horrific then was reported! The 2 police that stopped me lets call them 'nonse' and 'babyface' had stopped me multiple times on the way to work and must have just got bored of me never having any thing they could arrest me for! I have had to give up working because its always late at night and in tourist areas. It's very easy to be flippant about this but untill your in the station being treated like a piece of dirt and repeatedly being told you will serve one year in prison keep it to your self!!! I'm a fairly visable target and have been constantly harrased since i have been here (4 years) but in the last 6 months its got to the point i wont leave the house.

What are you still doing here you might ask!? well im leaving very soon.I earn well over 100k a month and pay my tax's (twice) which to some is not alot but i pay more then most thai peoples salarys.

Another thing to note is they wouldnt let me use my phone the whole time, i have superintendant (an honest one) on my phone, a high ranking army general, laywers etc etc...which would have got me out of it. Instead i payed 30k bht (thats alot of tea) to get out of there! I know someone who was made to empty there account while getting money out at the atm in thonglo, only for the 'police' to drive off after woulds. She (yes it was a woman) tryed to follow it up and was told they wearnt real police.

All thai's know that the police are mafia,so someone is letting this happen, which begs the question WHY?

Any way be safe out there.

[shaggy851]

although ive freaked out in the past, i got stopped in asoke area myself the other night also with a bunch of other people by police. We were stopped from walking and refused to tell me or anyone else why. Turned out to be holding pedestrian traffic back so a police cavalcade could exit the hotel with him and all the other officers saluting as they went. I asked a thai woman who is it the PM? No she said it a member of the Roy Family. So a simple mis understanding and lack of information as to why we were held up. Couldnt see the car from the footpath so we all got our panties in a bunch for nothing.

[easylondon]

''When he couldn’t produce, he says they forced him to drink four liters of water and pressed forcefully on his bladder to make him urinate and touched his penis.''

I do not believe any one could drink 4 litters of water, I could not...Could you?

try doing it with 6 police officers stading around you and no it isnt an easy thing to drink 4 litres of water while trying NOT to piss....i went home and was sick for 30 minutes....you think me getting sexualy assaulted is funny??? My blood is boiling now and i could write 2 paragraphs (with terrible grammer) threating you ....but i wont!

[Tchooptip]

''When he couldn’t produce, he says they forced him to drink four liters of water and pressed forcefully on his bladder to make him urinate and touched his penis.''

I do not believe any one could drink 4 litters of water, I could not...Could you?

try doing it with 6 police officers stading around you and no it isnt an easy thing to drink 4 litres of water while trying NOT to piss....i went home and was sick for 30 minutes....you think me getting sexualy assaulted is funny??? My blood is boiling now and i could write 2 paragraphs (with terrible grammer) threating you ....but i wont!

WHY ''trying not to piss?

And by the way thank you for not ''threating''me with terrible grammer, most thanks really

Edited December 6, 2014 by Tchooptip

[easylondon]

because in the 2 months before that i had smoken weed

[EyesWideOpen]

Thong Lor in BKK, right? Nice click bait, has nothing to do with the most common tourist destinations.

Well in America The Police shoot Their Black Citizens

Now that is Harassment

In Thailand what they doing is livable

Haha thanks for the morning laugh. For your information, a lot of killings in Thailand are

performed by off duty cops. Do some research. Also since you seem to have a pretty

benign view of the police, how about talking to a few Thai people and ask them how

they feel about the police. Their answers may shock you. They have spent their lives

being shaken down by the police, and hate them beyond all measure.....

To the Thaier than Thai posters thanks for the laughs as well. So just because it does

not happen in your village of Nakorn Nowhere, it does not matter ? Wow, love the

world wide viewpoint. Go back to watching buffaloes walk by, and don't bother commenting

on issues that apparently do not affect you.....

Edited December 6, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[easylondon]

before you go on the in thailand drugs are not tolerated stance blah de blah, i had smoked it in cambodia...i dont drink or take drugs! Weed stays in your stystem a very long time (which i found out to my detriment) and cost me 30k bht.

[John1thru10]

The police are definitely out in force in Sukhumvit.........I was out almost all day and half the night I went from Soi 15 to Nana up to Asoke over to Soi 22 back to cowboy 23 came out an hour later at Asoke then back to Nana then ended up in Soi 11 before going home.

There was definitely one police,am in the traffic box at Nana staring at people......mainly girls.

Never saw a single policeman in Soi 22 where my friend owns a bar.......told him about all the harassment and he told me don't talk .

Same 2 guys who are always there were at the mouth of cowboy......really scared me when one nodded and smiled.......Asked my Pal Pep who has worked the Tong Lor/Sukhumvit area for over 20 years as tuk tuk driver what was all the harassment about pulling up tourists........hadn't a clue what I was talking about...............he has never heard a thing.

Could it be we have a few drama queens on Thaivisa?

No, but there are many trying to denigrate Thailand and make the country seem like the pits using any excuse. They are using Thai visa as a platform to push out their hatred of Thailand and all things Thai.

I do wonder who or what are these people and what are the real motives behind them? Are these people some kinds of political opponents giving the semblance of being ex-pats? At one time I were thinking I was becoming paranoid, but these people, who and wherever they are seem to be determined to get their points across, and will make personal insults and try to overpower those who go against the grain with them, which is how extremists operate.

These people who appear intent on causing strife are certainly of no benefits to the ex-pats who have settled in Thailand and quite content with their lifestyles here, they only make the Thais have even more suspicions and tighten up the rules for us and do admit I have a profound dislike of them.

If you really cared about Thailand and it's people, and were in touch with real events - not just interested in your own pleasures at the expense of others - it wouldn't be so easy for your to make these apologist excuses all the time as you have been.

[EyesWideOpen]

The police are definitely out in force in Sukhumvit.........I was out almost all day and half the night I went from Soi 15 to Nana up to Asoke over to Soi 22 back to cowboy 23 came out an hour later at Asoke then back to Nana then ended up in Soi 11 before going home.

There was definitely one police,am in the traffic box at Nana staring at people......mainly girls.

Never saw a single policeman in Soi 22 where my friend owns a bar.......told him about all the harassment and he told me don't talk .

Same 2 guys who are always there were at the mouth of cowboy......really scared me when one nodded and smiled.......Asked my Pal Pep who has worked the Tong Lor/Sukhumvit area for over 20 years as tuk tuk driver what was all the harassment about pulling up tourists........hadn't a clue what I was talking about...............he has never heard a thing.

Could it be we have a few drama queens on Thaivisa?

No, but there are many trying to denigrate Thailand and make the country seem like the pits using any excuse. They are using Thai visa as a platform to push out their hatred of Thailand and all things Thai.

I do wonder who or what are these people and what are the real motives behind them? Are these people some kinds of political opponents giving the semblance of being ex-pats? At one time I were thinking I was becoming paranoid, but these people, who and wherever they are seem to be determined to get their points across, and will make personal insults and try to overpower those who go against the grain with them, which is how extremists operate.

These people who appear intent on causing strife are certainly of no benefits to the ex-pats who have settled in Thailand and quite content with their lifestyles here, they only make the Thais have even more suspicions and tighten up the rules for us and do admit I have a profound dislike of them.

If you really cared about Thailand and it's people, and were in touch with real events - not just interested in your own pleasures at the expense of others - it wouldn't be so easy for your to make these apologist excuses all the time as you have been.

Beetlejuice has stated on this forum before that he has relatives on the police force. So do

not look to his posts for any kind of balanced perspective regarding money raising activities

of the " Royal" Thai police......

[mataleo]

before you go on the in thailand drugs are not tolerated stance blah de blah, i had smoked it in cambodia...i dont drink or take drugs! Weed stays in your stystem a very long time (which i found out to my detriment) and cost me 30k bht.

http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/drugtestguide/drugtestdetection.html

[mataleo]

Theres some bad stories in fb group

[Beetlejuice]

I was watching the litter police do their thing in the Nana area.

There are about 12 of these predators stalking farang cigarette smokers.

They each nab 2 or 3 tourists per hour I estimate. Thats 192 - 288 tourists being harassed & fined 2,000Bt. every day.

The motive?384,000Bt - 576,000Bt per day. OR 12,000,000Bt - 18,000,000Bt per month!

Still the lesser or the 2 evils against the traffic wardens in the States and the UK, who can jump out from any corner or shop entrance to entrap their prey. Yet, some may argue that they are only doing their jobs.

[Tchooptip]

before you go on the in thailand drugs are not tolerated stance blah de blah, i had smoked it in cambodia...i dont drink or take drugs! Weed stays in your stystem a very long time (which i found out to my detriment) and cost me 30k bht.

http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/drugtestguide/drugtestdetection.html

Thanks for the link, at least I've learn something I have no idea.

[John1thru10]

...

Could it be we have a few drama queens on Thaivisa?

More than a few, many with an ax to grind, many who jump on the wagon to bash Thai people and Thailand. If they are actually even here, they have the choice to leave and if they hate it so much they should. I would suggest Syria or Iraq to them... There is a significant group here who will seize any opportunity to criticize this country and its people. If these people are the ones being targeted maybe it is because their attitude shows through. I definitely shouldn't let them annoy me. as they really post without substance and facts (even the so-called first hand accounts are not independently verifiable) but honestly I love Thailand and the people here. Thailand has been very good to me, and I'm grateful for the ability to live here.

You blithely tell complete strangers to leave the country they live in, and yet, you won't even go to the trouble to find a new thread to comment on.

I deeply resent you saying repeatedly that people are 'bashing' Thailand for being concerned about police corruption and intimidation, because I happen to love this country and many of it's citizens very dearly, for quite a while now. Promoting a fantasy image, as you are in your statements of 'everything's great, don't talk about it', does not make you a more deserving person; it means you are ignorant about a country's history and what it's like to be a citizen in that country. The average lower class Thai citizens' view of the police is one of fear and utter distrust; used to shakedowns and intimidation and corruption as a fact of daily life. This is not my 'opinion', these are the daily descriptions from Thai people over years now.

These aren't 'radicals' I'm referring to, either. These are the people cooking the food you eat, emptying your garbage, and driving you around; you just don't notice them, and believe that if they smile it means everything's 'great'. That you could be so vastly out of touch with how they feel, while describing yourself as 'loving Thailand' more than others, casts you as the 'ugly American', if there ever were one.

You don't even consider it worth mentioning that they have recently lost the ability to vote, for example. You don't mention that they have blocked access to human rights websites. You don't mention that they don't have a free press, and expelled foreign journalists, and block newssites which report on them from outside. You just don't care, in fact. You think that they should be happy (or worse, you think they 'are' happy) accepting conditions you never would in your home country. What does that say about you?

And secondly, all you do here for days now, is say that people targeted for police shakedowns 'deserve it'. That's an awful thing to say, in any country. Here you repeat it again (despite having been very long winded earlier denying that you would ever say that). You justify that extremely negative attitude by projecting all the worst qualities on whoever that happens to; Civil rights leaders throughout history have had to struggle against attitudes like yours. I am certainly no civil rights leader, but I do find your attitudes extremely out of touch with reality.

A close friend of mine is married to the former US Embassador to Thailand. A very close friend is head of the Crisis Group at the United Nations, who are very concerned about recent events. I originally came here at the invitation of a person doing choreography for the Royal Family, and I fell in love with this country and it's culture, and have spent the last 5 years (as an artist) studying Thai religious symbolism and history (I'm a history buff, and I can tell from some of your other comments that you definitely are not, by the way). Are you really going to tell me that I don't love Thailand? SHAME on you. I've just matured past the point of thinking my own pleasures are more important than other peoples realities; a level of maturity you apparently haven't reached. I can dearly love a place without being blind as to it's problems. And I can be concerned about other people, even if I haven't experienced everything they have.

So again, why don't you just move to a different thread, before you start casting judgments like how everyone else should leave a country they love. And don't you dare tell other people that they don't care about Thailand for simply being more knowledgeable than you apparently are, and concerned to see corruption as described in these accounts. Shame on you, for your obstinate and purposeful ignorance. Your motivation is selfish, laziness.

Edited December 6, 2014 by John1thru10

[Beetlejuice]

The police are definitely out in force in Sukhumvit.........I was out almost all day and half the night I went from Soi 15 to Nana up to Asoke over to Soi 22 back to cowboy 23 came out an hour later at Asoke then back to Nana then ended up in Soi 11 before going home.

There was definitely one police,am in the traffic box at Nana staring at people......mainly girls.

Never saw a single policeman in Soi 22 where my friend owns a bar.......told him about all the harassment and he told me don't talk .

Same 2 guys who are always there were at the mouth of cowboy......really scared me when one nodded and smiled.......Asked my Pal Pep who has worked the Tong Lor/Sukhumvit area for over 20 years as tuk tuk driver what was all the harassment about pulling up tourists........hadn't a clue what I was talking about...............he has never heard a thing.

Could it be we have a few drama queens on Thaivisa?

No, but there are many trying to denigrate Thailand and make the country seem like the pits using any excuse. They are using Thai visa as a platform to push out their hatred of Thailand and all things Thai.

I do wonder who or what are these people and what are the real motives behind them? Are these people some kinds of political opponents giving the semblance of being ex-pats? At one time I were thinking I was becoming paranoid, but these people, who and wherever they are seem to be determined to get their points across, and will make personal insults and try to overpower those who go against the grain with them, which is how extremists operate.

These people who appear intent on causing strife are certainly of no benefits to the ex-pats who have settled in Thailand and quite content with their lifestyles here, they only make the Thais have even more suspicions and tighten up the rules for us and do admit I have a profound dislike of them.

If you really cared about Thailand and it's people, and were in touch with real events - not just interested in your own pleasures at the expense of others - it wouldn't be so easy for your to make these apologist excuses all the time as you have been.

Beetlejuice has stated on this forum before that he has relatives on the police force. So do

not look to his posts for any kind of balanced perspective regarding money raising activities

of the " Royal" Thai police......

And another typical extremist viewpoint, that tries to push having a relative in the Thai police force should be something to be ashamed of a profession of ill repute.

Of course you people hate any opposition that may divert your trying to manipulate the gullible and the easy influenced that Thailand is the pits. You only substantiate what I said previously and if anyone should be suspect, if should be you. What are your motives behind this?

Are you really saying that the police and those of authority in Thailand are all corrupt without exception? If this is your meaning, then who are you that is insistent on pushing this view onto the masses? I have displayed my true colours that I do have relatives in the police force and much of my background here in Thailand in the past. So now show your true colours and explain your attacks on Thailand and what motivates you?

As for what you describe as balanced perspectives, please give your sources that the activities of the police in the OP is based on corruption and underhanded money making activities. So either put up or shut up because you hold no credibility whatsoever.

[granuaile]

Still the lesser or the 2 evils against the traffic wardens in the States and the UK, who can jump out from any corner or shop entrance to entrap their prey. Yet, some may argue that they are only doing their jobs.

Back in the US, in the rural, bible-belt community I lived in, and other places in the state there was - and is - frequent police harassment. In the town I lived in, a university town, the city police would enter the one pub which was next to campus an hour or so before closing, then as students walked back to their apartments, dorm rooms etc (yes walked not drove) they would arrest them for public intoxication. In the town my family is from, alcohol is not legal at all, and the night before my brother passed away in 1999 he was arrested after drinking one beer then leaving my fathers apartment to cross the street to use a pay phone. My nephew was stopped more than once, on one occasion made to take breathalyzer test several times, then told not to let them catch him out again that night. My cousin was stopped and when he displayed an ACLU "Know your rights" pamphlet I gave him, the cop said "That isn't good for anything but pissing us off." A friend had been out drinking in a rural Ohio town. on his way home, he crossed the center line, next thing lights flashing, took him to the local police station to test blood alcohol content (which was below the limit for arrest or charges)... I had more than one friend beaten by Cincinnati police and witnessed one with his gun pointed at my Dad...

So forgive me here for not thinking being stopped and searched represents a police state - I feel far freer here than I ever did in the USA and have not seen any abuse of police power though it may happen on occasion.

[granuaile]

Again you make absolutely no valid points here. I told no one to leave - what i said is that they have the choice to leave if they don't like it here. I never said they deserve it, though I never said it was without cause either. The people screaming about corruption and intimidation here, citing repeated unverified accounts that don't bear up under scrutiny, are the usual crowd here that attacks everything about Thailand. I don't need to post to another thread - this one and its unfounded attacks on the institution of the Royal Thai Police is the one that concerns me.

You blithely tell complete strangers to leave the country they live in, and yet, you won't even go to the trouble to find a new thread to comment on.

I deeply resent you saying repeatedly that people are 'bashing' Thailand for being concerned about police corruption and intimidation, because I happen to love this country and many of it's citizens very dearly, for quite a while now. Promoting a fantasy image, as you are in your statements of 'everything's great, don't talk about it', does not make you a more deserving person; it means you are ignorant about a country's history and what it's like to be a citizen in that country. The average lower class Thai citizens' view of the police is one of fear and utter distrust; used to shakedowns and intimidation and corruption as a fact of daily life. This is not my 'opinion', these are the daily descriptions from Thai people over years now.

These aren't 'radicals' I'm referring to, either. These are the people cooking the food you eat, emptying your garbage, and driving you around; you just don't notice them, and believe that if they smile it means everything's 'great'. That you could be so vastly out of touch with how they feel, while describing yourself as 'loving Thailand' more than others, casts you as the 'ugly American', if their ever were one. You don't even consider it worth mentioning that they have recently lost the ability to vote, for example. You don't mention that they blocked access to human rights websites. You don't mention that they don't have a free press, and expelled foreign journalists. You just don't care, do you. You think that they should be happy (or worse, you think they 'are' happy) accepting conditions you never would in your home country. What does that say about you?

And secondly, all you do here for days now, is say that people targeted for police shakedowns 'deserve it'. That's an awful thing to say, in any country. Here you repeat it again (despite having been very long winded earlier denying that you would ever say that). You justify that extremely negative desire by projecting all the worst qualities on whoever that happens to; Civil rights leaders throughout history have had to struggle against attitudes like yours. I am certainly no civil rights leader, but I do find your attitudes extremely ugly and out of touch with reality.

A close friend of mine is married to the former US Embassador to Thailand. A very close friend is head of the Crisis Group at the United Nations. I originally came here at the invitation of a person doing choreography for the Royal Family, and I fell in love with this country and it's culture, and have spent the last 5 years (as an artist) studying Thai religious symbolism and history. Are you really going to tell me that I don't love Thailand? SHAME on you. I've just matured past the point of thinking my own pleasures are more important than others realities; a level of maturity you apparently haven't reached yet. I can dearly love a place without being blind as to it's problems.

So again, why don't you just move to a different thread, before you start casting judgments like how everyone else should leave a country they love. And don't you dare tell other people that they don't care about Thailand for simply being more knowledgeable than you apparently are, and concerned to see corruption as described in these accounts. Shame on you, for your obstinate and purposeful ignorance. As your motivation is selfish, laziness.

[John1thru10]

Again you make absolutely no valid points here. I told no one to leave - what i said is that they have the choice to leave if they don't like it here. I never said they deserve it, though I never said it was without cause either. The people screaming about corruption and intimidation here, citing repeated unverified accounts that don't bear up under scrutiny, are the usual crowd here that attacks everything about Thailand. I don't need to post to another thread - this one and its unfounded attacks on the institution of the Royal Thai Police is the one that concerns me.

You blithely tell complete strangers to leave the country they live in, and yet, you won't even go to the trouble to find a new thread to comment on.

I deeply resent you saying repeatedly that people are 'bashing' Thailand for being concerned about police corruption and intimidation, because I happen to love this country and many of it's citizens very dearly, for quite a while now. Promoting a fantasy image, as you are in your statements of 'everything's great, don't talk about it', does not make you a more deserving person; it means you are ignorant about a country's history and what it's like to be a citizen in that country. The average lower class Thai citizens' view of the police is one of fear and utter distrust; used to shakedowns and intimidation and corruption as a fact of daily life. This is not my 'opinion', these are the daily descriptions from Thai people over years now.

These aren't 'radicals' I'm referring to, either. These are the people cooking the food you eat, emptying your garbage, and driving you around; you just don't notice them, and believe that if they smile it means everything's 'great'. That you could be so vastly out of touch with how they feel, while describing yourself as 'loving Thailand' more than others, casts you as the 'ugly American', if their ever were one. You don't even consider it worth mentioning that they have recently lost the ability to vote, for example. You don't mention that they blocked access to human rights websites. You don't mention that they don't have a free press, and expelled foreign journalists. You just don't care, do you. You think that they should be happy (or worse, you think they 'are' happy) accepting conditions you never would in your home country. What does that say about you?

And secondly, all you do here for days now, is say that people targeted for police shakedowns 'deserve it'. That's an awful thing to say, in any country. Here you repeat it again (despite having been very long winded earlier denying that you would ever say that). You justify that extremely negative desire by projecting all the worst qualities on whoever that happens to; Civil rights leaders throughout history have had to struggle against attitudes like yours. I am certainly no civil rights leader, but I do find your attitudes extremely ugly and out of touch with reality.

A close friend of mine is married to the former US Embassador to Thailand. A very close friend is head of the Crisis Group at the United Nations. I originally came here at the invitation of a person doing choreography for the Royal Family, and I fell in love with this country and it's culture, and have spent the last 5 years (as an artist) studying Thai religious symbolism and history. Are you really going to tell me that I don't love Thailand? SHAME on you. I've just matured past the point of thinking my own pleasures are more important than others realities; a level of maturity you apparently haven't reached yet. I can dearly love a place without being blind as to it's problems.

So again, why don't you just move to a different thread, before you start casting judgments like how everyone else should leave a country they love. And don't you dare tell other people that they don't care about Thailand for simply being more knowledgeable than you apparently are, and concerned to see corruption as described in these accounts. Shame on you, for your obstinate and purposeful ignorance. As your motivation is selfish, laziness.

You can't even take a moment to consider that your knowledge is incomplete. What an arrogant American you are. Look how desperate your own doublespeak is: "I told no one to leave - what i said is that they have the choice to leave if they don't like it here." In other words, 'get in line with the right thoughts, or....' "I never said they deserve it, though I never said it was without cause either." So, if it's not 'without cause', then...well, they deserve it. All your posts are like that. You go on to say their reports don't add up under scrutiny. No actually proof of that, just discrediting them in bias...just because.

You should really go to a different thread, if you disagree so much. And, I didn't say that, under your logic.

Edited December 6, 2014 by John1thru10