Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[boomerangutang]

It was inevitable that some 'experts' spoke up to back-up claims by us conspiracy theorists that David's wounds were from a shallow punch-blade or ring-weapon. That the experts took so long is lamentable. I suspect we'll be hearing other 'revelations' from experts, bye and bye, which back up what many of us have been harping about for weeks. Experts are embedded in bureaucracy, so we expect them to think and act glacially.

I also expect the British inquest, in about 2 weeks, to be as conservative as they can make it. Brit experts may have some inclination to find the real perps and seeking justice, but their over-riding desire is to not rock the Thaitanic Ship of State, or cause it to steer in to a British iceberg. in other words: if Brit DNA trail showed that Thai officials intentionally skewing DNA typing, that would obviously be a big deal. Even so, Thai officials could slough it off by saying: "It appears there are varying interpretations of the DNA" and/or "the crime scene may have been compromised, so we won't give any credence to DNA."

[Fat Haggis]

@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

Did they say who this influential people are?

So now you're playing the dumb part? Oh yeah speculating isn't your thing is it?

Mind you it wasn't the Senior Thai policeman a thing either when he intimated David's friend killed them both in a jealous rage eh?

Your comments and responses bore the shit out of me too but they're great entertainment !!

No, I'm not playing the dumb part, did they say who this influential people are, and if not, why?

Unless you are satisfied with empty rhetoric and don't want to know the facts of the case you

should be asking the same question.

I don't need to ask the same question and I doubt anyone else needs to either as they are more than likely thinking along the same lines as myself, I'm sure you're also smart enough to figure it out and don't need the be given a giant crayon to finish joining the dots.

By the way all police when conducting investigations speculate and theorise and think outside the box too from time to time whilst also gathering the evidence, but I guess you have already known this eh?

[Fat Haggis]

@Atomicalandy Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo words today: 'before we had no chance to prove our innocence, we are victims of influential people'

Did they say who this influential people are?

So now you're playing the dumb part? Oh yeah speculating isn't your thing is it?

Mind you it wasn't the Senior Thai policeman a thing either when he intimated David's friend killed them both in a jealous rage eh?

Your comments and responses bore the shit out of me too but they're great entertainment !!

No, I'm not playing the dumb part, did they say who this influential people are, and if not, why?

Unless you are satisfied with empty rhetoric and don't want to know the facts of the case you

should be asking the same question.

I don't need to ask the same question and I doubt anyone else needs to either as they are more than likely thinking along the same lines as myself, I'm sure you're also smart enough to figure it out and don't need the be given a giant crayon to finish joining the dots.

By the way all police when conducting investigations speculate and theorise and think outside the box too from time to time whilst also gathering the evidence, but I guess you have already known this eh?

As evidence is gathered and collated then suspects are eliminated from their inquiries too and the picture starts forming

[Fat Haggis]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html

Prosecution documents seen by The Telegraph allege the two men repeatedly smashed and chopped Mr Miller's face and head many times, which resulted in his death.

They are then alleged to have beaten Ms Witheridge until she was unconscious before raping her. Finally the men smashed and chopped her head with a hoe in order to kill her and cover up her sexual assault and Mr Millers murder.

His head wasn't smashed was it?

I thought he was drowned too?

Who was restraining Hannah at this gruesome point, or was she waiting politely?

How does smashing splitting her skull almost in two cover up a sexual assualt?

Are these guys the strongest Hobbits on record?

What a complete ant utter sham!!!

"How does smashing splitting her skull almost in two cover up a sexual assualt?"

It leaves no witnesses, for both the rape and the, murder of Miller.

As for the strength of the accused men, you could try an experiment, find some similarly built men and ask them to hit you in the head with a blunt object, a garden hoe or a bottle, as hard as they can... how do you think you'd fare?

I can answer that easily, I have been hit over the head by a much larger guy who had momentum on his side and struck me on the left hand side of my skull, it knocked me down but not unconscious I was able to stand up almost immediately and stop the next blow. I suffered concussion but no fractures until a few days later severe headaches caused me to go to the army medics who admitted me to hospital where I had an aneurism caused by the blow. I was operated on and all I had was a lump like a cricket ball, and half a shaved head.

No fractures or any other damage!!

It takes a great deal of forces to break a skull into pieces and human anatomy is different from person to person .

Why not go outside and try breaking a coconut in one go, the one still inside it's green shell .

[boomerangutang]

See my 2nd comment below why it would be stupid and dangerous for them to say who they think committed those murders (though in their earlier letter, they mentioned 'influential people' and someone who was no longer in Thailand). In a weird twist, if the men who really should be suspects are ever brought to trial (very unlikely), the the B2 would be useless as witnesses, because of what they said yesterday.

I don't want to throw a curved ball into the discussion, so apols if I am doing so. But on reading the news reports and seeing how the Burmese men continue to say they were drunk, I am getting this uncomfortable feeling that there is a possibility they may have actually witnessed the murders, or at the least, saw something that they shouldn't have.

I could also fathom that the B2 know more about the crime than they're letting on. Their lawyers probably told them to keep it simple: plead innocent, ....say they were drunk, went back to their cabin to sleep.

If the B2 start speaking up (assuming they know what really happened), they could open up cans of worms, and endanger their lives. One morning we may read the headline: 'Burmese Suspects Hang Themselves in Prison due to Overwhelming Remorse.'

So they don't say who did it because they fear for their lives if they speak up... but they are facing the prospect of a death sentence if they don't, your argument is nonsense.

Besides that, you claim their lawyers are telling them to lie and let the "real murderers" go unpunished, I see, now even the defense team is into the conspiracy.

There are 3 basic reasons why the B2 won't say who they think are the perps of the crimes (if they even have suspicions or knowledge about that).

#1, the judge and/or the prosecution can say, "so 'n so aren't on trial here. You are!"

#2, it will cloud and possibly confuse the intention of the defendants, which is: TO GET ACQUITTED.

#3 Everyone with any knowledge of how mafia-like families operate in Thailand, knows that implicating one of their family or friends in a crime, is asking for a head bashing or a bullet.

The defendants aren't supposed to do the police work of finding suspects, THE POLICE ARE. In a more advanced society, trained/objective investigators would be doing that work, but in Thailand, it's up to regular cops to do investigative work, and they're very subjective in that regard.

[DennisF]

It was inevitable that some 'experts' spoke up to back-up claims by us conspiracy theorists that David's wounds were from a shallow punch-blade or ring-weapon. That the experts took so long is lamentable. I suspect we'll be hearing other 'revelations' from experts, bye and bye, which back up what many of us have been harping about for weeks. Experts are embedded in bureaucracy, so we expect them to think and act glacially.

I also expect the British inquest, in about 2 weeks, to be as conservative as they can make it. Brit experts may have some inclination to find the real perps and seeking justice, but their over-riding desire is to not rock the Thaitanic Ship of State, or cause it to steer in to a British iceberg. in other words: if Brit DNA trail showed that Thai officials intentionally skewing DNA typing, that would obviously be a big deal. Even so, Thai officials could slough it off by saying: "It appears there are varying interpretations of the DNA" and/or "the crime scene may have been compromised, so we won't give any credence to DNA."

It will also be interesting toi see how many members of the public turn up to witness the inquest.

We know already 1 TVF member will go, I hope any that can will to show support for the family in this traumatic time for them.

[DennisF]

Interesting comment from a former fleet street hack to me earlier:

'This has become so big (the case) many writers think they can make their career blowing this open.

There are many already investigating, for sure, I know at least 2 who are on the job.'

He said many things but he believes that the British press (paparazzi) are excited by the case and many see it as their stepping stone to fame and fortune.

Personally I think thats a bit sick but if thats what it takes to get to the truth, so be it.

[StealthEnergiser]

Interesting comment from a former fleet street hack to me earlier:

'This has become so big (the case) many writers think they can make their career blowing this open.

There are many already investigating, for sure, I know at least 2 who are on the job.'

He said many things but he believes that the British press (paparazzi) are excited by the case and many see it as their stepping stone to fame and fortune.

Personally I think thats a bit sick but if thats what it takes to get to the truth, so be it.

Good to see people working from all angles hopefully they get a result.

[StealthEnergiser]

It was inevitable that some 'experts' spoke up to back-up claims by us conspiracy theorists that David's wounds were from a shallow punch-blade or ring-weapon. That the experts took so long is lamentable. I suspect we'll be hearing other 'revelations' from experts, bye and bye, which back up what many of us have been harping about for weeks. Experts are embedded in bureaucracy, so we expect them to think and act glacially.

I also expect the British inquest, in about 2 weeks, to be as conservative as they can make it. Brit experts may have some inclination to find the real perps and seeking justice, but their over-riding desire is to not rock the Thaitanic Ship of State, or cause it to steer in to a British iceberg. in other words: if Brit DNA trail showed that Thai officials intentionally skewing DNA typing, that would obviously be a big deal. Even so, Thai officials could slough it off by saying: "It appears there are varying interpretations of the DNA" and/or "the crime scene may have been compromised, so we won't give any credence to DNA."

It will also be interesting toi see how many members of the public turn up to witness the inquest.

We know already 1 TVF member will go, I hope any that can will to show support for the family in this traumatic time for them.

What do you think we learn from the inquests of David and Hannah Will they go into details about what made the wounds ?

[DennisF]

It was inevitable that some 'experts' spoke up to back-up claims by us conspiracy theorists that David's wounds were from a shallow punch-blade or ring-weapon. That the experts took so long is lamentable. I suspect we'll be hearing other 'revelations' from experts, bye and bye, which back up what many of us have been harping about for weeks. Experts are embedded in bureaucracy, so we expect them to think and act glacially.

I also expect the British inquest, in about 2 weeks, to be as conservative as they can make it. Brit experts may have some inclination to find the real perps and seeking justice, but their over-riding desire is to not rock the Thaitanic Ship of State, or cause it to steer in to a British iceberg. in other words: if Brit DNA trail showed that Thai officials intentionally skewing DNA typing, that would obviously be a big deal. Even so, Thai officials could slough it off by saying: "It appears there are varying interpretations of the DNA" and/or "the crime scene may have been compromised, so we won't give any credence to DNA."

It will also be interesting toi see how many members of the public turn up to witness the inquest.

We know already 1 TVF member will go, I hope any that can will to show support for the family in this traumatic time for them.

What do you think we learn from the inquests of David and Hannah Will they go into details about what made the wounds ?

A good question.

A coroner has wide ranging powers and it would not be unusual to mention the potential weapons used.

Here is a link to what a UK coroner can do.

It does not give the finer details, which are on a restricted site, (allegedly).

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/coroners/#a40

[BritTim]

What do you think we learn from the inquests of David and Hannah Will they go into details about what made the wounds ?

That is a very good question. Before discussing this further, bear in mind that the inquests are not certain to be open. The coroner could decide for some reason to close them to the public. With that proviso ...

Most likely, we shall hear testimony about the post mortem, examinations, which would describe the wounds and type of weapon(s) involved. I am not sure if the Thai post mortems will be available in addition to those carried out by the Home Office pathologist. If so, comparing them will be fascinating. I shall especially want to see what is made of the wounds to David's hands and whether there were signs of a struggle by Hannah. There would also be pharmacology results, probably revealing whether Hannah was drugged. Less certain is whether any foreign bodies potentially amenable to DNA testing were found. Even were this the case, DNA testing would probably only be done if the coroner or families specifically requested it.

Do not expect a verdict. The inquests will be adjourned pending further information from Thailand.

[DennisF]

What do you think we learn from the inquests of David and Hannah Will they go into details about what made the wounds ?

That is a very good question. Before discussing this further, bear in mind that the inquests are not certain to be open. The coroner could decide for some reason to close them to the public. With that proviso ...

Most likely, we shall hear testimony about the post mortem, examinations, which would describe the wounds and type of weapon(s) involved. I am not sure if the Thai post mortems will be available in addition to those carried out by the Home Office pathologist. If so, comparing them will be fascinating. I shall especially want to see what is made of the wounds to David's hands and whether there were signs of a struggle by Hannah. There would also be pharmacology results, probably revealing whether Hannah was drugged. Less certain is whether any foreign bodies potentially amenable to DNA testing were found. Even were this the case, DNA testing would probably only be done if the coroner or families specifically requested it.

Do not expect a verdict. The inquests will be adjourned pending further information from Thailand.

Again another good post.

Im starting to feel confident!

The chances of an inquest not being public is remote as there are no national security issues involved, the main reason for closed inquests.

The adjournment is a possibility, without a doubt but, given the RTP fiasco so far and the fact that the trial is being held in another country, the coroner has a get out clause that enables him to give a verdict of 'unlawful killing by person or persons unknown.'

That and the fact that the UK cannot interfere with the legal process in another country means he is independent and whilst a government employee, he is not as restricted as the FCO, the police or even Cameron. He has a duty of justice and detailing cause. Coroners in the UK are not patsies for anyone.

The coroner works very closely with the police and CPS so, maybe, just maybe, the MET see this as an opportunity to publicise their views.

Pure speculation, but possible.

[boomerangutang]

Dear Mister Honorable Home Office Coroner,

You already know many people will scrutinize every word of your report, regarding the double murder of British subjects (and alleged rape of one) at Ko Tao, in September 2014. It appears you have a choice to hide your report from the public, or publish it for all to see. I hope you choose the latter. Anything which can contribute to the arrest and trial of the actual perpetrators of that heinous crime, is appreciated. In contrast, hiding the report from the public view, may have the unwanted affect of enabling the perpetrators to run free, and quite possibly commit additional crimes in the future.

Ken A.

American residing in northern Thailand

[DarioS]

at 2.52 while Hannah and her friends are walking past the cctv, 3 males in what looks like same yellow t-shirts appeared....am I looking into it too much? and the male friend Hannah was walking with was on the phone. Phone records....who is he?

[DarioS]

This is the one....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-lhBkROmTY#t=180

[DennisF]

This is the one....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-lhBkROmTY#t=180

Seen this one a few times and get a lump in my throat every time I see Hannah walking carefree and enjoying life.

Its not possible to view this and not demand truth and justice for her and David.

[Mooner]

This is the one....

Interesting. A blown up pick of these 3 males could be a lead. I do remember talk of potential suspects from a football team early on.

[IslandLover]

greenchair, on 27 Dec 2014 - 08:56, said:

007cableguy, on 27 Dec 2014 - 05:00, said:

Has anyone seen or heard about Nomsods brother ?.

Seems strange that he is never mentioned !

I have raised this many times.

Rtp said two have escaped to bkk. One is in Police custody. The other is on the run. The police expect to make an arrest soon. Nobody mentions the brother. I have often wondered if nomsod was a diversion. That would be interesting.

Does anyone remember this news report. Could we get a link.

What is the brothers name.

The was a post on the fb site which we are not allowed to link to back in October (I think) which named the brother of Nomsod and described him as "feminine". Around the same time similar implications were made about a cop on the island (not Big Ears). I did not realise the significance of it until very recently.

[IslandLover]

Mooner, on 27 Dec 2014 - 16:03, said:

DarioS, on 27 Dec 2014 - 15:51, said:

This is the one....

Interesting. A blown up pick of these 3 males could be a lead. I do remember talk of potential suspects from a football team early on.

"Stingray Man" was pictured in one of the football teams during the tournament on Koh Tao. Unfortunately I forgot to save the picture but I saw it on the fb site that shall remain nameless. It will still be there I imagine.

[Willy Eckerslike]

Mooner, on 27 Dec 2014 - 16:03, said:

DarioS, on 27 Dec 2014 - 15:51, said:

This is the one....

Interesting. A blown up pick of these 3 males could be a lead. I do remember talk of potential suspects from a football team early on.

"Stingray Man" was pictured in one of the football teams during the tournament on Koh Tao. Unfortunately I forgot to save the picture but I saw it on the fb site that shall remain nameless. It will still be there I imagine.

Here is an interesting link, worth reading to refresh memories,

"Police have been evasive about the AC Bar's possible importance to their inquiries. Thai media reported a police raid on the nightclub last Friday during which "narcotics" were allegedly found. However, the nightclub continues to operate and officials have repeatedly refused to provide details of that operation.

Many Koh Tao locals say they are convinced that whatever triggered the Britons' murders is likely to have taken place at the nightclub.

"We all believe that it started at AC Bar," one source said.

Rumours have circulated about a possible altercation at the AC Bar between the two victims and a group of Thai men.

However, Panya Mamen, the police chief, said interviews with Ms Witheridge's friends indicated there had been "no such confrontation".

Police are thought to be in possession of footage from security cameras inside the nightclub but it has not been made public".

Police quiz Thai footballers over murder of British backpackers

Edited December 27, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[Willy Eckerslike]

EDIT Double post

Edited December 27, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[Mooner]

Mooner, on 27 Dec 2014 - 16:03, said:

DarioS, on 27 Dec 2014 - 15:51, said:

This is the one....

Interesting. A blown up pick of these 3 males could be a lead. I do remember talk of potential suspects from a football team early on.

"Stingray Man" was pictured in one of the football teams during the tournament on Koh Tao. Unfortunately I forgot to save the picture but I saw it on the fb site that shall remain nameless. It will still be there I imagine.

Here is an interesting link, worth reading to refresh memories, Police quiz Thai footballers over murder of British backpackers

A list of the team sheets could be interesting!

[AleG]

See my 2nd comment below why it would be stupid and dangerous for them to say who they think committed those murders (though in their earlier letter, they mentioned 'influential people' and someone who was no longer in Thailand). In a weird twist, if the men who really should be suspects are ever brought to trial (very unlikely), the the B2 would be useless as witnesses, because of what they said yesterday.

I don't want to throw a curved ball into the discussion, so apols if I am doing so. But on reading the news reports and seeing how the Burmese men continue to say they were drunk, I am getting this uncomfortable feeling that there is a possibility they may have actually witnessed the murders, or at the least, saw something that they shouldn't have.

I could also fathom that the B2 know more about the crime than they're letting on. Their lawyers probably told them to keep it simple: plead innocent, ....say they were drunk, went back to their cabin to sleep.

If the B2 start speaking up (assuming they know what really happened), they could open up cans of worms, and endanger their lives. One morning we may read the headline: 'Burmese Suspects Hang Themselves in Prison due to Overwhelming Remorse.'

So they don't say who did it because they fear for their lives if they speak up... but they are facing the prospect of a death sentence if they don't, your argument is nonsense.

Besides that, you claim their lawyers are telling them to lie and let the "real murderers" go unpunished, I see, now even the defense team is into the conspiracy.

There are 3 basic reasons why the B2 won't say who they think are the perps of the crimes (if they even have suspicions or knowledge about that).

#1, the judge and/or the prosecution can say, "so 'n so aren't on trial here. You are!"

#2, it will cloud and possibly confuse the intention of the defendants, which is: TO GET ACQUITTED.

#3 Everyone with any knowledge of how mafia-like families operate in Thailand, knows that implicating one of their family or friends in a crime, is asking for a head bashing or a bullet.

The defendants aren't supposed to do the police work of finding suspects, THE POLICE ARE. In a more advanced society, trained/objective investigators would be doing that work, but in Thailand, it's up to regular cops to do investigative work, and they're very subjective in that regard.

"#1, the judge and/or the prosecution can say, "so 'n so aren't on trial here. You are!""

Direct quote from the judge to one of the defendants: "If you were not involved in this crime, tell us who is. Don't be scared.". So a complete and utter fail for your first attempt at hand-waving things away.

"#2, it will cloud and possibly confuse the intention of the defendants, which is: TO GET ACQUITTED."

Naming the "real murderers" so they can be prosecuted would do wonders to get them acquitted.

"#3 Everyone with any knowledge of how mafia-like families operate in Thailand, knows that implicating one of their family or friends in a crime, is asking for a head bashing or a bullet."

Again, they are facing a death sentence if they are found guilty, I really don't believe you spend any more time than it takes you to write your rationalizations on thinking what you are actually saying.

"The defendants aren't supposed to do the police work of finding suspects, THE POLICE ARE."

The defense is supposed to do anything that would prove the innocence of their clients, you just make up "rules" in an attempt to rationalize things. Furthermore if the defense knows who the real killers are and don't tell they are in fact conspiring in the cover-up a double murder.

[BoristheBlade]

The Team sheet would be very interesting, especially No9

[Miscal]

The Team sheet would be very interesting, especially No9

No9 ist said to be dead... so far, however, it's just a rumor.

[jabis]

Sun Service football team if I remember the news items correctly, as it was the same team that the taxi driver was hired to transport - same guy that allegedly was offered 700K฿ - and when refused allegedly took a beating - to provide a false testimony.

[boomerangutang]

Some of the items which still jangle in the mind, regarding what police didn't do, or perhaps they did do and it implicated the Headman's people, so it was trashed:

>>> delve in to scenario at AC bar prior to vicitims and perps leaving.

>>> scrutinize blue shorts left at murder scene. In initial RTP reports, there was mention of a perp changing shorts at crime scene (his were too bloody?). Plus, the CCTV footage shows a very suspicious subject (very likely Nomsod) wearing light shorts in one sequence, and dark shorts in another.

>>> CCTV footage from AC bar that night. It's been mentioned that owners of the bar were buddies with nearby CCTV component seller.

>>> speedboat operators. How did Nomsod get quickly from island back to Bkk that early morning?

>>> phone records/history of that night and next days.

>>> Nomsod's mother, his g.f., his friends/acquaintances, his teacher at U. His barber, whomever does his laundry, .....all those folks should be grilled about what they know.

>>> Mon.was interrogated for 3 hours, but was his body checked for injuries? ...was his residence and place where he does laundry scrutinized?

>>> Look closely at 'Stingray Man' and 'Mon's cop friend.'

In keeping with Thai officials' frame-up (of the Burmese) and shielding the Headman's people, it is highly unlikely any of those above-mentioned items will be scrutinized in a more than cursory way. And those items, mentioned above, are just a partial list - indicating how profoundly RTP has screwed up.

[boomerangutang]

The judge asking the defendants who they think did it, is a trick question. Any answer, other than the one they gave (we don't know. we were drunk, we went home to sleep) could be jumped on by judge and prosecution - and could get them killed. They're scapegoats with no money, no social standing, they're young, scared. The 2 boys aren't expected to police work. The police are, and the cops are failing miserably. I dearly hope, if/when a frame-up is revealed, that ALL cops and Thai authorities involved with the frame-up/ cover-up are prosecuted fully. However, I'm familiar enough with Thailand to know that's nigh impossible.

[BoristheBlade]

No9 is alive and well

And he has another new haircut, he has gone for the hairless look, and he like to wear orange

The Team sheet would be very interesting, especially No9

No9 ist said to be dead... so far, however, it's just a rumor.

[IslandLover]

IslandLover, on 27 Dec 2014 - 17:23, said:

Mooner, on 27 Dec 2014 - 16:03, said:Mooner, on 27 Dec 2014 - 16:03, said:

DarioS, on 27 Dec 2014 - 15:51, said:DarioS, on 27 Dec 2014 - 15:51, said:

This is the one....

Interesting. A blown up pick of these 3 males could be a lead. I do remember talk of potential suspects from a football team early on.

"Stingray Man" was pictured in one of the football teams during the tournament on Koh Tao. Unfortunately I forgot to save the picture but I saw it on the fb site that shall remain nameless. It will still be there I imagine.

Correction to above post. Stingray Man was not pictured in a football team, it was a cycling team. Apologies for wrong information.