Property developers in Pattaya now feel impact from dropping Russian currency

[The manic]

But it suggests a very grim future for Thailand and the Thai people and economy

[kaiyaibob]

From the OP

"He said the declining value of ruble was expected to see a drop by 50% in Russian tourists to Pattaya "

should that be ruble? rouble or rubble??

Edited December 24, 2014 by kaiyaibob

[loppylugs1]

The best evidence that the property market is down in Thailand, is that I can take you, within a radius of about 20 km around pattaya, to 1000 recenly build and empty shophouses. Add to that at least double that amount of townhouses and detached bungalows.

When you drive about 15 km on the road #36 towards Rayong, at the traffic lights where you can go right to Ban Chang, there are 110 Shophouses in a row completed about 3 months ago, and as of last week there were exactly 6 ( six) occupied.

That is a prime location for shophouses

There massive amounts of shop that have been built over the past few years on soi siam cc. I thought they would never sell but i was wrong.

in 1998 part of Jomtien was a graveyard. real estate eggsburts forecasted "empty for decades to come!" five years later all buildings were occupied and scores of additional ones were built.

There was a lot of slack in the system internationally and as it proved in Thailand, the slack in Thailand though was in credit,the most heavily indebted nation in SE Asia. this time around there is no slack in the system,no lifebelt,no nothing.

Only bums have money,you know the sort,the ones with money in the bank, or better still shares in the bank ,never took anything out to purchase a pot to piss in Thailand

[konying]

I notice no one ever asks where these Russians get their money from. I have a few years working in Russia and the average salary does not allow for family holidays to Thailand. Even the owner of the apartment block I lived in was well connected with the Mafia.

If Thailand checked I am sure most of these "investors" would have underground connections.

They should be a little more selective as to who they sell to

Where exactly did you live in Russia?

Average salary in Moscow is 35K plus.

2 bedroom unit in the heart of Moscow is few million DOLLARS

A studio, about 30 mins by metro is 500 000 DOLLARS

Officers in the army and police starting salary is 50 000 per month.

Despite some fairy tales you have heard, it is not easy to transfer money from Russia.

People need to provide purchase order to bank in Russia for bank to release the money.

Any facts to support your assertions?

Average monthly salary in Moscow over 55 800 rubles.

The average income per capita in Moscow on the basis of 2013 will amount to 51,338 rubles per month

Monthly wages in Moscow average at about 57,000 rubles, although most workers receive substantially less than that, a city official said.

“It is not that we all live affluently here, it is related to the fact that in Moscow there is a big rift between the low-paid and the high-paid,” Deputy Mayor for Social Development Leonid Pechatnikov said, m24.ru reported

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/moscow-monthly-wage-on-average-1800/487138.html

Other articles state the income of a Police officer at 50,000 rouble per month.

http://themoscownews.com/oped/20130128/191183303/Police%20corruption:%20all%20you%20need%20is%20trust%20.html

That is currently US$12k per annum.

Gandalf has a point. Don't dismiss it so derisively.

No, sorry no facts just common sense and ability to read basic english.

may be you got confused about the "plus", it means 35 000 and more, so 55 000 would fall into that "plus"

[Asiantravel]

No the forges report about the junta I cannot post the link here because the truth it tell is illegal in thailand

[Asiantravel]

Last night I had to walk away from a heated discussion (because what I was being told makes no sense to me ) where the other party was absolutely insisting the Pattaya condominium market is now effectively being “ saved “ by absentee Chinese and Korean buyers. I should mention that one of the other participants in the discussion works for a property developer.

For example in Soi Yume near Big C extra there is a new condominium block which the developer claims has been 90% sold to Koreans and Chinese. Firstly I would expect the Chinese and Koreans to have entirely different motivations to buy a property in another country compared to Russian buyers. I can't believe for example, they would buy without knowing they can get a half decent return from their investment by renting it out. But I was being told last night this is not the case, which I find hard to believe .

Unlike Russians who I am sure in many cases would intend to occupy their condominiums, at least during their vacation there is no expectation that the Asian buyers will do the same and this is why it doesn't make any sense to me that they would be buying here in Pattaya in such volumes?

I was being told last night that the Korean and Chinese are only buying them here as opposed to, say, Bangkok just because it's near the ocean. The claim is that they are not looking for any rental return and they are just happy to sit on them.

Is it only me that finds this incredible?

I know the block you mean ,my wife was there renting out a property some weeks ago ,you may find it incredible ,but it is true , and i find that incredible as well considering the prices there . as a matter of fact the client she deals with owns three condos there and she is Thai.

Hi Claudius.

I just want to clarify what you mean because when I raised this in another thread a couple of days ago you replied and mentioned about your wife working in property and you said that she had seen few Chinese buyers if any?

When you say it is true are you just saying it is true that 90% of them have been sold? It's not that which surprises me because in this instance it is an attractive looking development. I could imagine Thais being interested because the architecture is nice . But I can't believe 90% of the buyers are Chinese or Korean.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Asiantravel

[i claudius]

Sorry not sure about the number of Chinese buyers,I don't think she has ever dealt with one but it seems most are sold and I was told that the Chinese like to rent them , as I said she has a Thai lady who owns three,

[Asiantravel]

Last night I had to walk away from a heated discussion (because what I was being told makes no sense to me ) where the other party was absolutely insisting the Pattaya condominium market is now effectively being “ saved “ by absentee Chinese and Korean buyers. I should mention that one of the other participants in the discussion works for a property developer.

For example in Soi Yume near Big C extra there is a new condominium block which the developer claims has been 90% sold to Koreans and Chinese. Firstly I would expect the Chinese and Koreans to have entirely different motivations to buy a property in another country compared to Russian buyers. I can't believe for example, they would buy without knowing they can get a half decent return from their investment by renting it out. But I was being told last night this is not the case, which I find hard to believe .

Unlike Russians who I am sure in many cases would intend to occupy their condominiums, at least during their vacation there is no expectation that the Asian buyers will do the same and this is why it doesn't make any sense to me that they would be buying here in Pattaya in such volumes?

I was being told last night that the Korean and Chinese are only buying them here as opposed to, say, Bangkok just because it's near the ocean. The claim is that they are not looking for any rental return and they are just happy to sit on them.

Is it only me that finds this incredible?

My last condo owner is Korean. In this development, there are a few owned by different Koreans. ALL are trying to sell. Chinese people dont buy condos.

" Chinese people dont buy condos. "

aha ! so you're now the second person to express this view

can I ask (if you know) why are the Koreans trying to sell?

Edited December 24, 2014 by Asiantravel

[jmacken306]

They put to much into a Russian purchase of or building of. And me a US Citizen can't buy a house (unless), start a business...... But the US, anybody can buy anything because it is a free Country!

I haven't even looked into driving a car let alone a Motorbike or Scooter!

[OnMyWay2]

Ive heard stories of Chinese buyers coming in

but there are still Too many condos to turn them all into rentals.

[2fishin2]

Last night I had to walk away from a heated discussion (because what I was being told makes no sense to me ) where the other party was absolutely insisting the Pattaya condominium market is now effectively being “ saved “ by absentee Chinese and Korean buyers. I should mention that one of the other participants in the discussion works for a property developer.

For example in Soi Yume near Big C extra there is a new condominium block which the developer claims has been 90% sold to Koreans and Chinese. Firstly I would expect the Chinese and Koreans to have entirely different motivations to buy a property in another country compared to Russian buyers. I can't believe for example, they would buy without knowing they can get a half decent return from their investment by renting it out. But I was being told last night this is not the case, which I find hard to believe .

Unlike Russians who I am sure in many cases would intend to occupy their condominiums, at least during their vacation there is no expectation that the Asian buyers will do the same and this is why it doesn't make any sense to me that they would be buying here in Pattaya in such volumes?

I was being told last night that the Korean and Chinese are only buying them here as opposed to, say, Bangkok just because it's near the ocean. The claim is that they are not looking for any rental return and they are just happy to sit on them.

Is it only me that finds this incredible?

My last condo owner is Korean. In this development, there are a few owned by different Koreans. ALL are trying to sell. Chinese people dont buy condos.

" Chinese people dont buy condos. "

aha ! so you're now the second person to express this view

can I ask (if you know) why are the Koreans trying to sell?

Yes because there are "no customers" in Phuket now. Thats what I was told. He bought the condos thinking he of course make money on them. Only one of the 4 he bought has a tenant and that's me. The condo I live in has a less than 50% occupancy rate....

[Asiantravel]

Last night I had to walk away from a heated discussion (because what I was being told makes no sense to me ) where the other party was absolutely insisting the Pattaya condominium market is now effectively being “ saved “ by absentee Chinese and Korean buyers. I should mention that one of the other participants in the discussion works for a property developer.

For example in Soi Yume near Big C extra there is a new condominium block which the developer claims has been 90% sold to Koreans and Chinese. Firstly I would expect the Chinese and Koreans to have entirely different motivations to buy a property in another country compared to Russian buyers. I can't believe for example, they would buy without knowing they can get a half decent return from their investment by renting it out. But I was being told last night this is not the case, which I find hard to believe .

Unlike Russians who I am sure in many cases would intend to occupy their condominiums, at least during their vacation there is no expectation that the Asian buyers will do the same and this is why it doesn't make any sense to me that they would be buying here in Pattaya in such volumes?

I was being told last night that the Korean and Chinese are only buying them here as opposed to, say, Bangkok just because it's near the ocean. The claim is that they are not looking for any rental return and they are just happy to sit on them.

Is it only me that finds this incredible?

My last condo owner is Korean. In this development, there are a few owned by different Koreans. ALL are trying to sell. Chinese people dont buy condos.

" Chinese people dont buy condos. "

aha ! so you're now the second person to express this view

can I ask (if you know) why are the Koreans trying to sell?

Yes because there are "no customers" in Phuket now. Thats what I was told. He bought the condos thinking he of course make money on them. Only one of the 4 he bought has a tenant and that's me. The condo I live in has a less than 50% occupancy rate....

[Naam]

interesting is how many threads are opened and how many expats are commenting and rendering judgment on the Thai real estate folly / bubble / disaster

[Asiantravel]

interesting is how many threads are opened and how many expats are commenting and rendering judgment on the Thai real estate folly / bubble / disaster

Well if expats don't deliberate and exchange notes about this topic here on TV how else can people be expected stay informed about this very opaque “ market “?

Surely you're not suggesting people simply listen to the advice of real estate brokers?

[Anthony5]

There is at least one company that makes a killing in the current property situation, and that is Big Banner company, since the banners along the roads are multiplying by the hour.

The only thing I don't understand is why developers who have sold hundreds of villas or condos in no time in a certain project, have then to spend hundreds of thousands in publicity to get the 3 very very last units sold.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Anthony5

[konying]

interesting is how many threads are opened and how many expats are commenting and rendering judgment on the Thai real estate folly / bubble / disaster

Yet when somebody asks about the prices or a guide to prices, hardly any responses

[loppylugs1]

interesting is how many threads are opened and how many expats are commenting and rendering judgment on the Thai real estate folly / bubble / disaster

C'mon Naam,you know the time is up. The great defender of all things concerning farang owning property. You most certainly can have my share. Up to you Naam,just hope all is well throughout your life here in Thailand

[OnMyWay2]

interesting is how many threads are opened and how many expats are commenting and rendering judgment on the Thai real estate folly / bubble / disaster

If things were booming I suspect we'd be discussing that too.

Where I'm from it looks to be a disaster but maybe this is normal for thailand to have 1000s of unfinished condos in limbo?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I notice no one ever asks where these Russians get their money from. I have a few years working in Russia and the average salary does not allow for family holidays to Thailand. Even the owner of the apartment block I lived in was well connected with the Mafia.

If Thailand checked I am sure most of these "investors" would have underground connections.

They should be a little more selective as to who they sell to

Where exactly did you live in Russia?

Average salary in Moscow is 35K plus.

2 bedroom unit in the heart of Moscow is few million DOLLARS

A studio, about 30 mins by metro is 500 000 DOLLARS

Officers in the army and police starting salary is 50 000 per month.

Despite some fairy tales you have heard, it is not easy to transfer money from Russia.

People need to provide purchase order to bank in Russia for bank to release the money.

Any facts to support your assertions?

Average monthly salary in Moscow over 55 800 rubles.

The average income per capita in Moscow on the basis of 2013 will amount to 51,338 rubles per month

Monthly wages in Moscow average at about 57,000 rubles, although most workers receive substantially less than that, a city official said.

It is not that we all live affluently here, it is related to the fact that in Moscow there is a big rift between the low-paid and the high-paid, Deputy Mayor for Social Development Leonid Pechatnikov said, m24.ru reported

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/moscow-monthly-wage-on-average-1800/487138.html

Other articles state the income of a Police officer at 50,000 rouble per month.

http://themoscownews.com/oped/20130128/191183303/Police%20corruption:%20all%20you%20need%20is%20trust%20.html

That is currently US$12k per annum.

Gandalf has a point. Don't dismiss it so derisively.

No, sorry no facts just common sense and ability to read basic english.

may be you got confused about the "plus", it means 35 000 and more, so 55 000 would fall into that "plus"

Basic English? I am English. Are you? If I was confused, it would be because of the poor way in which you express yourself.

Gandalf clearly suggested that there is something fishy about the fact that Russians have relatively low wages, but yet....

Your retort was to state "Average salary in Moscow is 35K plus."

35K plus what? US$ per annum? Roubles per month? I can certainly understand at least basic English. You should at least learn to write it, before making such embarrassing(for yourself) statements.

So what exactly was your argument? How does someone earning US$12,000 per annum afford a US$500,000 apartment and afford to go on holiday, as Gandalf has suggested?

I don't have a point of view either way, but your retort makes no sense at all.

Perhaps you can explain it to us all....in at least basic English.

[The manic]

The term 'plus' when added to a figure usually means 'plus a small non specified amount.' re the Russian mafia in Pattaya. What businesses in Russia are not mafia connected? The prison tats are a give away also

[Anthony5]

Sorry not sure about the number of Chinese buyers,I don't think she has ever dealt with one but it seems most are sold and I was told that the Chinese like to rent them , as I said she has a Thai lady who owns three,

I noticed that the other day they opened a huge billboard on the Highway near Pattaya advertising a new condominium.

Couldn't read which condominium since it is entirely in Chinese, so I guess there must be a market for Chinese condo buyers.

[Anthony5]

The best evidence that the property market is down in Thailand, is that I can take you, within a radius of about 20 km around pattaya, to 1000 recenly build and empty shophouses. Add to that at least double that amount of townhouses and detached bungalows.

When you drive about 15 km on the road #36 towards Rayong, at the traffic lights where you can go right to Ban Chang, there are 110 Shophouses in a row completed about 3 months ago, and as of last week there were exactly 6 ( six) occupied.

That is a prime location for shophouses

I have to retract my previous statement. This afternoon I passed the same location again, and now the situation has changed as followed.

2 of the 6 occupants have gone out of business since, so now there are only 4 shops of the 110 shophouses occupied anymore.

But everything still seems to be above par, as they have started the second phase of probably another 110 shophouses.

[inzman]

The developers only care about selling these units. The buyers are on the real estate frenzy, buying and thinking about selling at a profit when the building is finished and sold out. It's the end buyer that pays the piper, when the units don't go up in price because of over building.

Edited February 1, 2015 by inzman

[crickets]

The saying in realestate is "if you build it they will come"

[Anthony5]

The developers only care about selling these units. The buyers are on the real estate frenzy, buying and thinking about selling at a profit when the building is finished and sold out. It's the end buyer that pays the piper, when the units don't go up in price because of over building.

I understand, and probably all 110 units are sold to one or another mug investor who thought to get rich while laying on his back, but clearly those investors can't get them rented out or sold at a profit.

Wonder how the next phase gonna sell with 106 units with the shutters down next door.

[i claudius]

Luckily my wife who is in the buisness has never dealt with Russians ,and as they tend to buy new build she has very little to do with that ,the more established houses and condoes she deals with are selling ,but it is the slow time of year so not a lot of change for her yet?

[i claudius]

The best evidence that the property market is down in Thailand, is that I can take you, within a radius of about 20 km around pattaya, to 1000 recenly build and empty shophouses. Add to that at least double that amount of townhouses and detached bungalows.

When you drive about 15 km on the road #36 towards Rayong, at the traffic lights where you can go right to Ban Chang, there are 110 Shophouses in a row completed about 3 months ago, and as of last week there were exactly 6 ( six) occupied.

That is a prime location for shophouses

I have to retract my previous statement. This afternoon I passed the same location again, and now the situation has changed as followed.

2 of the 6 occupants have gone out of business since, so now there are only 4 shops of the 110 shophouses occupied anymore.

But everything still seems to be above par, as they have started the second phase of probably another 110 shophouses.

I have a thread going in the Pattaya section about the supermarket there ,we were passing the other day and poped in ,we then drove along the ave ,so few of the shops open and the ones that were had no customers ,all except KFC which was packed ,by the way the supermarket is very nice .

[glanville63]

Who the heck thought up the name Pattaya Posh. I'll bet my shirt it was a Thai. They don't have a clue and I doubt they would have done some market research. Pattaya Pride or Pattaya Perfect maybe but Posh. Why not Pattaya Naff. Kowgai Mai ??

[JHolmesJr]

Who the heck thought up the name Pattaya Posh. I'll bet my shirt it was a Thai.

Or maybe a chav from england who liked The Spice Girls.

[KittenKong]

Who the heck thought up the name Pattaya Posh.

Probably the same chap who thought up "Mr Bond at the Beach".