Why aren't Thai lawyers like lawyers as we know?

[Phuketboy]

This might be a question for ask the lawyer, but I wanted to get some feedback from other Thai Visa members to see if they have ever faced a similar problem when dealing with lawyers here.

A friend of mine had an issue this week which he can't seem to get help, even from his lawyer. About 3 weeks ago he signed the contract for a premises for his business. The contract was signed by both parties and his lawyer had a copy. At this time, he paid his key money for the full 3 years and everything was done according to the contract. A couple of days ago the owner calls him and tells him he needed to pay an extra because they had made a mistake. He tried to talk with the owner regarding the contract and with no luck he contact his lawyer. His lawyer originally said he was correct, but when the lawyer found out that a member of the owner's family was a high ranking police officer here on the island the lawyer said they couldn't help.

Now, my understanding is a contract is a contract and if you had a lawyer back home they would work for you and do the best they could regardless of who the other party was. Why is it that the lawyers here never seem to want to practice law and do their job? I thought it may be that because everyone knows everyone here, they might not want conflict, but then again, this is not practicing law and the lawyer should be fighting for him. My suggestion was to speak with a lawyer from Bangkok and get someone from there to represent him.

Has anyone else faced this or similar problems and if so how did you deal with it?

[h90]

the lawyer knows that he'll loose (surely in the court maybe the life).....

He should write a letter to Prayut......they like to take care of big policemen....

[benalibina]

The country is run by ........fear......from top to bottom......only when one has problems in Thailand it becomes visible......to understand big....one needs to understand small.....

[sdanielmcev]

Would be helpful if you stated your home country so I could give you a comparison. Also, your lawyer is smart, and you should heed his actions. Contracts are broken in every country.

[rayongchelsea]

Would be helpful if you stated your home country so I could give you a comparison. Also, your lawyer is smart, and you should heed his actions. Contracts are broken in every country.

You clearly have no idea.

It's very annoying when people talk about comparisons with other countries as if to justify the way the legal system and contracts are Handled here.

Why is the lawyer smart. Smart at understanding the influence that the other person in the contract has but not smart enough to Persue legal recourse. I had a lawyer like him, disgraceful, fortunately I found a great lawyer via recommendation. He persued our contract dispute , but told us that even though we were completely right the legal system as it stood with the parties involved would never find in our favour.We accepted that but Persued the case, even after intimidation and threats..

Contracts are broken in other countries , not as a rule but as an exception. There is also a system for remedy..

Maybe your experiences in the court system ( both criminal and civil) are different from mine...

[rayongchelsea]

The country is run by ........fear......from top to bottom......only when one has problems in Thailand it becomes visible......to understand big....one needs to understand small.....

Fear, influence and money..

There are good people within the system who get frustrated, there is hope..and maybe the junta will help in this regard.

[mogandave]

If there were an actual mistake in the contract it is reasonable to correct it.

With such a limited amount of information it is impossible to come to an accurate conclusion.

[sdanielmcev]

Would be helpful if you stated your home country so I could give you a comparison. Also, your lawyer is smart, and you should heed his actions. Contracts are broken in every country.

You clearly have no idea.

It's very annoying when people talk about comparisons with other countries as if to justify the way the legal system and contracts are Handled here.

Why is the lawyer smart. Smart at understanding the influence that the other person in the contract has but not smart enough to Persue legal recourse. I had a lawyer like him, disgraceful, fortunately I found a great lawyer via recommendation. He persued our contract dispute , but told us that even though we were completely right the legal system as it stood with the parties involved would never find in our favour.We accepted that but Persued the case, even after intimidation and threats..

Contracts are broken in other countries , not as a rule but as an exception. There is also a system for remedy..

Maybe your experiences in the court system ( both criminal and civil) are different from mine...

The lawyer is smart because he knows he can't win. But, since you don't take advice, that point is moot. Not all legal systems are based on English common law.

Edited December 26, 2014 by sdanielmcev

[ATF]

I would suggest you urgently contact Messrs Smith, Wesson & Glock.

[snottgoblin]

I would suggest you urgently contact Messrs Smith, Wesson & Glock.

Sir,

I thought Gerben, Hampster & Wheel were Thailand's leading Attorneys?

He he

Edited December 26, 2014 by snottgoblin

[benalibina]

I would suggest you urgently contact Messrs Smith, Wesson & Glock.

Sir,

I thought Gerben, Hampster & Wheel were Thailand's leading Attorneys?

He he

Schnotty.....listen to ATF....he knows best.

[Langsuan Man]

That is the way things are done in this country. Why do you think that lawyers here will not work for a contingency, they won't take a case until they are sure that they can win, and they can only win if the person that they are going up against is not connected

Why do you think that the cops never stop a bus or large truck that is breaking the law ? Because the cop cannot tell whether or not the company owners is protected or not, that is why motorcycles are easy pickings and are always stopped

If you are counting on any form of justice in this country you will only be disappointed

[ATF]

Your friend can kiss his cash goodbye. Even most Thais won't do business with the Southern Thais and most of the Islands are run as private fiefdoms.

The lawyer could have been in on the scam. Docs get switched and the contact was probably in Thai.

Only an original signed contract is valid under Thai Law but English is valid.

The only possibility is to ask for the cash back (extremely slim chance) in order to rewrite the contract. Get the cash and skip town.

If you pursue the matter you could end up as crab food.

[marko kok prong]

As my wife says,"is Thailand,is different.

[FireMedic]

Reason number 105 not to do business in Thailand.

[Phuketboy]

Thanks all, sounds like he only has one option and that is to get his money back and look for a new premises. Guess I, like some of you are lucky to have not had this issue with our businesses. It's disgraceful how scared Thai's are about standing up against people who think they are above the law. The truth is that if everyone stood up to corruption, there would be no corruption. Sad really.

[Briggsy]

Thanks all, sounds like he only has one option and that is to get his money back and look for a new premises. Guess I, like some of you are lucky to have not had this issue with our businesses. It's disgraceful how scared Thai's are about standing up against people who think they are above the law. The truth is that if everyone stood up to corruption, there would be no corruption. Sad really.

I hear what you are saying but I am afraid your view of this country is somewhat Utopian and does not reflect the actual reality of the place. I am not criticising you. I am simply putting forward an alternative view.

I would suggest it is even more disgraceful when lawyers or their recalcitrant clients are shot in order to conclude a business dispute and there is no credible investigation.

The truth is if everyone stood up to corruption, Thailand would be a bloodbath.

Very sad really.

[h90]

Your friend can kiss his cash goodbye. Even most Thais won't do business with the Southern Thais and most of the Islands are run as private fiefdoms.

The lawyer could have been in on the scam. Docs get switched and the contact was probably in Thai.

Only an original signed contract is valid under Thai Law but English is valid.

The only possibility is to ask for the cash back (extremely slim chance) in order to rewrite the contract. Get the cash and skip town.

If you pursue the matter you could end up as crab food.

That most Thais won't do business with Southern Thais is simply wrong. Many of our customer are companies owned by Southern Thais here in Bangkok and as it seems they do well, no one avoids them.

[samsensam]

the people who bang on about what wonderful country this is and how great life is here are generally those who have never had a serious problem or issue here or who have the money to insulate them from the reality of life here.

sure, there are some good things about this place but there's a whole lot of rotten stuff too.

[ATF]

Your friend can kiss his cash goodbye. Even most Thais won't do business with the Southern Thais and most of the Islands are run as private fiefdoms.

The lawyer could have been in on the scam. Docs get switched and the contact was probably in Thai.

Only an original signed contract is valid under Thai Law but English is valid.

The only possibility is to ask for the cash back (extremely slim chance) in order to rewrite the contract. Get the cash and skip town.

If you pursue the matter you could end up as crab food.

That most Thais won't do business with Southern Thais is simply wrong. Many of our customer are companies owned by Southern Thais here in Bangkok and as it seems they do well, no one avoids them.

What I meant is Thais in general won't go to the South to do business, like build condos, factories etc.

Of course doing business with the South from Bangkok is a different matter.

[rayongchelsea]

Would be helpful if you stated your home country so I could give you a comparison. Also, your lawyer is smart, and you should heed his actions. Contracts are broken in every country.

You clearly have no idea.

It's very annoying when people talk about comparisons with other countries as if to justify the way the legal system and contracts are Handled here.

Why is the lawyer smart. Smart at understanding the influence that the other person in the contract has but not smart enough to Persue legal recourse. I had a lawyer like him, disgraceful, fortunately I found a great lawyer via recommendation. He persued our contract dispute , but told us that even though we were completely right the legal system as it stood with the parties involved would never find in our favour.We accepted that but Persued the case, even after intimidation and threats..

Contracts are broken in other countries , not as a rule but as an exception. There is also a system for remedy..

Maybe your experiences in the court system ( both criminal and civil) are different from mine...

The lawyer is smart because he knows he can't win. But, since you don't take advice, that point is moot. Not all legal systems are based on English common law.

Nothing to do with what's based on which law. Justice is justice. We lost in the lower court we are now in the appeal court and will go to the Supreme Court if necessary..our chances are much higher, but it takes years, and we will never win but we will obtain something from it at some point so it is not pointless.

Not to win because of corruption is the point.

Much easier to influence at the lower court, he just wanted to ingratiate himself with the influential party we have taken to court and wasn't interested in the long haul or going up against them, his advice was self serving in the main. He should never have accepted our retainer.

The guy was smart only for his own interests.

Btw it wasn't me that made the decision to carry on it was the other 50 people in the case most of who were Thais.

I have dealt with the family court, fantastic, I have dealt with the civil courts in terms of probate fantastic. I have dealt with labour disputes in arbitration - ok.

The legal system is based on Germanic law, it is appears to me to be well written.

Dealing with contractual disputes..influencing people altogether different...

It's not the law it how it is implemented.

It shocked me as I have lived here most of my life.

You can live here a very long time and not understand most things until you experience them.i would never have believed it unless I experienced it.

We have the resources most do not.

And as a side note, they were not shy in using racists terms and making derogatory comments because I am a foreigner..there was no need for that.

[Thaiberius]

The main institutions are corrupt. The population are, from a very young age, taught not to question things. It's just the way it is. There will be cosmetic changes under the junta but in time the old style corruption will return. Thailand isn't the US, UK or any other western country, it is a country that is culturally 180 degrees different from the west. If one can't handle that then don't visit or live in the Kingdom.

[simon43]

Today's puzzle. Sort out the jumbled words:

Kansas in you're now not Dorothy

[rayongchelsea]

The main institutions are corrupt. The population are, from a very young age, taught not to question things. It's just the way it is. There will be cosmetic changes under the junta but in time the old style corruption will return. Thailand isn't the US, UK or any other western country, it is a country that is culturally 180 degrees different from the west. If one can't handle that then don't visit or live in the Kingdom.

There is systematic corruption and a complete indifference towards foreigners, however I have met some good Thais in the system and many of my neighbours and their children recognize that things need to change but feel a sense of " acceptance" of how things are.

However a system that benefits the rich and therefore the privileged will like you say ultimately not change but don't think that carte Blanche Thais don't want things to improve.

I think handling what goes on here is not the same as accepting what goes on here.

[Beetlejuice]

One of my sons is a lawyer in Bangkok and Thai lawyers are as good, bad and ugly as lawyers anywhere else in the world.

Firstly, is the OP`s alleged friend Thai or farang?

If a farang then does he intend to own and run the said business strictly as imposed under Thai law? Because if not, for example he is using a Thai name to front the business or trading in a profession or goods that are prohibited to foreigners without a work permit, then the situation could go against him in civil court. And perhaps this is the reason why the lawyer had decided not to take the contract dispute any further?

[Time Traveller]

Basically Lawyers in Thailand are impotent. The mafia controls this country and the law does not apply to them and the Lawyers know that and fear them.

I once worked for a international legal firm in Bangkok whose speciality was IP law. So many foreign clients filing suits against IP violations in Thailand. Yet every single night organized criminals at thousands of well known markets throughout Thailand continue to sell counterfeit goods, most of which is manufactured in the country. Could they be stopped by the Law? Yes, but powerful Thai people protect these crime gangs.

Same thing in Dispute Resolution cases when there's a Foreign plaintiff against a Thai defendent. If the Thai is connected with organized crime or a powerful family, then the plaintiff simply will not win. Thai Lawyers know this but will still take your money anyway.

[Rancid]

Ironic how so many believe there is one law for all in their home countries and not a separate one for the rich and connected.

[benalibina]

Ironic how so many believe there is one law for all in their home countries and not a separate one for the rich and connected.

Hmmm...not an incorrect statement.....but A difference between the western democracies and Thailand...free press and thus ......checks and balances...resulting in more accountability....