Private schools in Thailand on shaky ground

[selftaopath]

A recent "grad" from a Thai University finished her studies after the required 5 years. Her major was English. This afforded her the title of "real" English teacher. Upon being introduced to her by my wife I spoke to her, and saw a confused look on her face. She did not comment/reply. My wife said she doesn't understand and can not speak English. This is after 5 years, and now works as an English teacher in a govt. school.

[mogo51]

They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

It's up to the teachers to accept or reject the salary they are offered. No-one is forcing them to work for "peanuts".

A rather pompous comment, are you a teacher if so I assume you are 'Native Speaker" and for some reason those in your category earn considerably more than say Filipino or other non 'native' speakers. Many of these 'native speakers' are 6 week wonders who have no teaching experience whatsover. They are receiving 10kB or more than others with teaching degrees and who have many years teaching experience. These teachers are continuously trying to get wage justice here.

[mok199]

it is sad how the children and lower class are treated in this country...''THAILAND NEEDS A COMPLETE MAKEOVER''...starting with the education system...the goal of the ciriculum is to teach them a few national songs a few proverbs,everything about the monarchy, and don't forget to say ''crap or ka''....then they go out in the world...sawadee no crap

[Phuketboy]

15000 baht a month for a university educated teacher? Wow, no wonder so many university qualified girls still work in bars. I have 2 girls who after all bonuses, bar fines etc be on between 120000 - 140000 per month. A pole dancer starts at 20,000 base with one girl I know at another venue earning 60000 as a base, then you add everything else on top and these girls are making 5,6,7 times that of a teacher. My office manager for another business of mine is on between 18,000 with no formal tertiary education, but she is worth it.

Now before anyone starts, yes I know working in bars, clubs etc is not the most desirable career, but they can make their money when young and fall back on the studied career later on. I am also a qualified teacher with a bachelor of education. There is no way in hell, I would ever teach for less than 100000 per month when teachers in other places are on much much more than this.

[Phuketboy]

There's a number of points from these comments:

• Thai teachers attend school premises for long hours, but if they worked professionally during all of those hours they would complete their workloads within working hours
• International and private schools offer the same product - some schools have renamed themselves 'International' to obtain perceived prestige
• Many deductions are taken from Thai teachers in the form of loans, loan repayments (cars being the usual example)
• International schools are no better in the quality of education they offer than many government or other fee-paying schools
• The name 'International' appeals to those Thais and foreigners (for whom their company pays the fees) who consider themselves above the government system

Are there any International schools which command a huge bribe, for their quality? I think not.

I write from long experience.

"International and private schools offer the same product - some schools have renamed themselves 'International' to obtain perceived prestige"

I have to disagree with this point that you made. Private schools use a Thai Curriculum and usually run an English program using mainly Thai Teachers with a few foreign teachers (many from the Philippines)to teach English . International Schools use an international curriculum such as the IB, Singapore, English,or Australian Curriculum. They use mainly foreign teachers (from western countries)to teach all subjects with a few Thai Teachers to conduct the compulsory Thai Classes.

Also have to disagree. My daughter was in a Thai government school and the level of education was appalling. The teachers I had dealings with had no idea how to teach curriculum, they mostly taught life skills and Thai culture with a few math and Thai lessons thrown in. Now my daughter is in a private school which delivers the UK curriculum and linked with Cambridge University, with 65% english and 35% Thai classes. 65% of the time she is with her teacher from England and is doing unbelievably well in all areas. Each time she does her home work, I ask her why the Thai part is so hard. She said because the Thai teacher doesn't teach just writes on the board, where the English teacher actually teaches. I have been out to the school to observe and the Thai teachers have no idea. There is no way I would put my daughter back into a Thai government school. Money well spent and if the current private school needed more to stay open I would gladly pay.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Phuketboy

[samsensam]

They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

It's up to the teachers to accept or reject the salary they are offered. No-one is forcing them to work for "peanuts".

pay peanuts you'll get monkeys

and judging by some of the half-wits 'teaching' English here this is very true

[Time Traveller]

Schools closing down is not a problem. Thais are having less babies than in the past so it's basic maths. The school market is oversupplied and thailand will continue to need less schools and less teachers as demand continues to fall. Good riddance to lousy overpriced childminding..

Edited January 12, 2015 by Time Traveller

[Gandtee]

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They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

It's up to the teachers to accept or reject the salary they are offered. No-one is forcing them to work for "peanuts".

That's ridiculous. Job opportunities are not unlimited. So you think they should just all decide to become bank presidents? Or you think the young female ones should just go out and work in a bar instead?

Every society needs a decent education system and teachers. If someone decides to pursue this worthwhile profession, you don't think they should be paid a fair wage?

Idnguy- Your attitude is similar to telling foreigners who complain about unfairness that 'If you don't like it, go back to where you came from.' Teachers and all workers deserve a decent wage. How can you expect teachers to do their best when in the back of their minds they are resentful about being taken advantage of. One day Thailand will experience the power of unions. Without them workers will always be exploited. But the Unions must also refrain from exploiting.

[attrayant]

I agree and speak from 10 years experience at a private school in Bangkok but I am speaking about Thai teachers here not farang. The hours they have to do is also horrendous. Its easy to say they dont have to accept it but they do as there is little alternative. Like most Thais many are in debt and have no choice but to take what they are offered. Many of the teachers at the school I worked had also taken out "cheap" car loans offered by the MOE which kept them trapped in the job. Thai teachers have my full sympathy.

I am conflicted about this. Yes I see the Thai teachers working ten hours × six days and I feel for them. But then I ask myself why do they put up with it? Why don't they band together and demand a fair work week and wage? What is the director going to do, fire every single teacher?

I feel the same way with the other foreign teachers I work with. We have Europeans, Canadians, Filipinos, and Australians. Most of them will scrape and bow to the director and do any ridiculous thing he asks. Last term he asked that we all come in 45 minutes early and stand at the front gate in the 30 degree heat to sa-wat-dee the students as they come in. I'm sorry but the contract you asked me to sign says I start at 7:45! And I'm pretty sure it says "teacher" in the job description, not doorman or greeter. Yet I'm the only foreign teacher who refused.

Employees - both Thai and foreign - let their employers take advantage of them in Thailand, and I have no idea why.

[attrayant]

Oh, and this from the OP:

"When a school is run as a family business, it lacks clear direction," she said.

"Without efficient management in this regard, schools can't deliver an efficient curriculum."

I totally agree with this. Every time we have a brainstorming meeting to think of ways to improve the school, we are reminded that this is a family business and we mustn't spend any money. Yet we have massive brand new brass statues in front of the school, while the classrooms look like the South Bronx with student desks held together with duct tape and nails (don't worry, the pointy end of the nails is hammered-over so there's only a slight chance of catching yourself on one)

Profit is the number one consideration, and everything else is a distant second. If it costs money, it's not even on the list.

[seancbk]

They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

I agree and speak from 10 years experience at a private school in Bangkok but I am speaking about Thai teachers here not farang. The hours they have to do is also horrendous. Its easy to say they dont have to accept it but they do as there is little alternative. Like most Thais many are in debt and have no choice but to take what they are offered. Many of the teachers at the school I worked had also taken out "cheap" car loans offered by the MOE which kept them trapped in the job. Thai teachers have my full sympathy.

Anyone with a degree that is expected to work for 15,000 THB a month has my sympathy.

This country needs to start paying people a more reasonable wage. A teacher with a degree should be worth 50,000 at least.

[cup-O-coffee]

Hanging a shingle on the front of a concrete structure and charging people money does not constitute a private school.

Shaky ground, ...perhaps!

But a school, ...doubtful.

Too many fallacies and flaws come to mind, to emphatically support my highly critical view of what they consider as a true meaning to the words they plagiarize when endeavoring to come across as intellectuals and not the greedy, money grubbing scum that they mostly are.

As a disclaimer to my harshness, I simply get incredibly upset when these issues keep popping up like the seasons of the year, and nothing ever ever gets accomplished with respect to the true meaning of what they utter.

As long as this culture remains intact, they will generally never be able to carry out to the full fruition the true meaning of the words they use. They will never even get remotely close to reaping those intended results.

It's about as stupid as thinking one can lie ones self to the truth.

That's my take on this continuous "education" and "school" debacle.

[northernjohn]

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What an odd, Thai-journalism style article.

The top of the article and headline make it seem like private schools in Thailand are declining, with "nearly 400" (338) having closed in the past decade.

But the graphic accompanying the article, and then finally the article at the very bottom, makes it clear that during that same time, "more than 1000" (1006) such schools were newly opened. So in essence, though the article doesn't say it, new school openings about tripled existing school closings during the period in question.

That doesn't much sound like an industry in decline, given that the population of private schools grew considerably (an increase of 640+) during the period in question.

And, if you look at the year to year closure numbers in the info graphic, the larger numbers of closures all occurred during the prior 2005-2009 period, while the year to year closures in the more recent years since then have been much smaller and declining on an annual basis in comparison. I.e., fewer schools have been closing in recent years compared to in the past.

Welcome to the Nation. This sort of thing is typical of them.

Teachers who complete the four-year bachelor degree programme or the equivalent advanced certificate in Buddhist theology are meant to be paid Bt13,300, compared to the old rate of Bt11,680.

The Thai government is paying private school teacher salary bonuses to teachers who have completed an advanced certificate in Buddhist theology????

And anyone wonders why the education system here is c**p...

Was there any particular reason you left out part of the quote. In case you forgot I will post it for you

The government also announced a new salary of Bt14,100 for teachers who completed the Graduate Diploma Programme in Teaching Profession. The old rate was Bt12,480.

Teachers who complete the four-year bachelor degree programme or the equivalent advanced certificate in Buddhist theology are meant to be paid Bt13,300, compared to the old rate of Bt11,680.

It would appear to me the incentive is to complete a Graduate Diploma Program. Besides I have been told that some of the Buddhist schools have a good program.

[northernjohn]

At our (private) school, Thai teachers haven't had a summer holiday for years, not even a day. Now, they are being told they must work weekends as well until the start of the new semester (through summer).

But the farang teachers don't? Why not? Is it because they have complained in the past and the management knows they can't strongarm them?

Just a guess, but if that is correct, it goes to show that, if you don't complain about something and just accept it, you deserve to have to put up with it. Thai teachers like this don't get much sympathy from me on this matter, as they won't do anything to change it. Sounds like your school's teachers have to do work for work's sake, probably to fulfill some management power trip, and are completely whipped; harsh, but if you don't stick up for yourself, what do you expect?

It's not just about them, either; the stress they let themselves be put under probably affects their performance and reduces their effectiveness in the classroom, and the students often don't want to do these after school/weekend/summer course extra-curricular activities and complain of being tired/bored. (It must be said, though, that many of the Thai teachers I know do actually get paid for extra work; off the official books, of course).

Well two things

1 Foreign teachers get more money

2 You have no idea of Thai culture just another Farong with why don't they do it like they do in my country menttality.

[rayw]

Just want to add that this just underlines why I have always been and still am totally against private schools which are almost all purely run as a profits first business. They attract almost exclusively the children of the wealthy and elite no matter how intelligent or willing to learn they are. It is why I have a strong and I think decent and honourable belief that ALL children should have EQUAL OPPORTUNITY no matter whether they are from wealthy or poor, mean or generous, families.

Education should be based exclusively on the child's ability and willingness to learn and NOT based on who their parents are. Education should be graded in each subject based on the ability and willingness to learn criteria of each child. Without that we shall never get to the much needed and I believe wanted state of full social mobility. Certainly in the UK Private schools have higher paid teachers than the state schools and they thus attract the very best teachers making them unavailable to teach all the many children from less privileged homes who may well have far more ability and willingness to deserve a higher level of education. Education, and indeed Health too should NEVER be in the hands of selfish capitalist groups, as those two service industries are simply and logically unsuitable for privatisation IMHO.

Remember our children are the future success and prosperity of our societies, and as such their education is the best investment society can make to ensure every child gets the most appropriate education based solely on their ability and willingness to be taught. That will lead to a much fairer and better society and help narrow down the disgusting almost Edwardian immoral levels of wealth divide we now see. No of course we are not all equal either as that is unrealistic and stupid to believe, but we should all have equal opportunities as much as is possible and why Health and Education should be taken totally out of corporate hands and properly state run by experts in those fields. Capitalism does not suit everything and neither does Socialism, we all need to understand that and in future only elect and adopt centre based Governments who take only the best and fairest policies from both left and right extremes. Surely we have all had enough of divisive extremism by now!!

For the new owners to simply immediately close these inherited private schools out of greed, well that really harms the children enormously and damages their education and future prospects, It truly sucks big time, A very selfish attitude indeed that we should not tolerate, as it should never be allowed to happen like that. Such schools should decently and thoughtfully close down gradually in carefully thought out stages designed primarily to protect the existing students educational well being. And then we should of course move to an all state run school system that is properly run by the most capable teachers and administrators and away form the corporate primarily greed based private schools.

Edited January 12, 2015 by rayw

[jbauer]

At our (private) school, Thai teachers haven't had a summer holiday for years, not even a day. Now, they are being told they must work weekends as well until the start of the new semester (through summer).

But the farang teachers don't? Why not? Is it because they have complained in the past and the management knows they can't strongarm them?

Just a guess, but if that is correct, it goes to show that, if you don't complain about something and just accept it, you deserve to have to put up with it. Thai teachers like this don't get much sympathy from me on this matter, as they won't do anything to change it. Sounds like your school's teachers have to do work for work's sake, probably to fulfill some management power trip, and are completely whipped; harsh, but if you don't stick up for yourself, what do you expect?

It's not just about them, either; the stress they let themselves be put under probably affects their performance and reduces their effectiveness in the classroom, and the students often don't want to do these after school/weekend/summer course extra-curricular activities and complain of being tired/bored. (It must be said, though, that many of the Thai teachers I know do actually get paid for extra work; off the official books, of course).

Well two things

1 Foreign teachers get more money

2 You have no idea of Thai culture just another Farong with why don't they do it like they do in my country menttality.

1. More money, in the short term, but depends on the type of school, the individual school, the seniority of the teachers, the relationships the teachers may or may not have to the management etc. Long term, maybe not- knew a perfectly ordinary old teacher in a relatively rural school on 82,000 bath/mth base salary (saw the contract with this in). How you play the game, maybe. Not to mention benefits and "perks". Not everyone is on less than 15,000 baht a month, you know.

2. I do know of the reluctance to unionize and the cultural/political reasons why, and I disagree with them, at least in some cases such as this, where obviously it would do some good- sometimes change isn't a bad thing. They do it in many other countries, not just my own. Not even saying unionize, just stick up for yourself en masse on occasion, if you are in a ridiculous situation such as one described in the post I commented on. Give it a go, at least? Up to them.

Do you know more than Thai culture than me? I'm not saying you don't, because I don't know who you are, but how are you so sure of my knowledge on it? Even so, I can know about it and, at the same time, not agree with it...

[gchurch259]

They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

It's up to the teachers to accept or reject the salary they are offered. No-one is forcing them to work for "peanuts".

And, What is the Unemployment Rate among those Teachers who stand-up for their rights ??

Thai Teacher 15,000 THB, Farang Teacher 40,000 THB, so is that about right ??

[jbauer]

They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

It's up to the teachers to accept or reject the salary they are offered. No-one is forcing them to work for "peanuts".

And, What is the Unemployment Rate among those Teachers who stand-up for their rights ??

Thai Teacher 15,000 THB, Farang Teacher 40,000 THB, so is that about right ??

There is a labor court which actually does work with at least some degree of impartiality (documented many times). Maybe if they did stand up more, and in a group, it wouldn't be so easy for their managers to exploit them. Foreign teachers don't often get screwed around with like this, unless they are very green, and they are thought of as eminently more disposable.

Thai teacher salary : Foreign teacher salary = Apples : Oranges

[colinneil]

jabuer what are you talking about? 82.000 baht per month for a teacher !! no way!!

Teachers/ government employees get paid according to grade.

The highest grade any teacher can achieve is grade 9. 70.000 baht per month.

I have shown my wife your post (she is a school director) took her five minutes to stop laughing.

[Lupatria]

They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

Just look at all these Pisa-losers leaving school - If you pay peanuts to teachers the ‘graduates’ are the monkeys.

"The heir of the school's late founder wants to use the land plot for another purpose," he said.

This should read: Trade education for Shopping Malls!

And after the completed take over by China, (another gift from the dear leader) they will be happy to find a country with access to two Oceans linked by their railroad and in between enough unskilled workers to run the show for peanuts again.

[icare999]

This is exactly why government school is the best, as it strictly follow Prayuth 12 core Thainese value.

Thai government school now even have Farang teacher.

Not sure if they managed to get the full 15,000 Baht / month or not.

not having a go at you but honestly all posts I've read are total BS talking about 15000 baht. That is peanuts in real international system here where even lowest qualified forang teacher gets at least 60-80,000 baht a month in Bangkok and elsewhere at least 60,000 and many can earn 150,000 in top international schools. The thai assistants however are lucky if they get 15,000-20,000 and to be honest most of them aren't worth any more in my experience of having sent our 2 kids to several schools here including bi-lingual thai private and good international schools. I know friends who think 400,000 a year fees are crazy but international schools we've sent our kids have in each class properly qualified forang teachers or if not ones with many years forang experience. Amongst other things I'm a fully qualifies teacher but know that does not make a good teacher. Problem is most Thai teachers (except at some of very top) dont teach children to question and dont understand

[jbauer]

jabuer what are you talking about? 82.000 baht per month for a teacher !! no way!!

Teachers/ government employees get paid according to grade.

The highest grade any teacher can achieve is grade 9. 70.000 baht per month.

I have shown my wife your post (she is a school director) took her five minutes to stop laughing.

Saw it myself. Can't say anything else, as obviously I don't have a copy. Believe me or not. I do know something about the concept of grades, thank you.

It is possible this was not, in fact, a base salary; however, it was a regular monthly amount, and the amount is not far removed from your wife's assessment of what is achievable (the woman was near retirement age). This is leaving aside the fact that, as everyone should know by now, what is official here isn't necessarily official.

As I said, it's not that far off from what your wife says is possible, and certainly extra school income is up for grabs, for the right people. As to the legitimacy of my claim, it's a system with lots of money flying around and mysteriously disappearing, and an amateur quality level of bureaucracy with an extremely thin veneer of respectability. Even as a school director, I don't think she could know everything that goes on in every case, and that is leaving aside the idea that she isn't necessarily in the loop as much as she might think she is (not trying to be rude, sincerely, but how else could I phrase it?)... That is, assuming she is a director, and does in fact exist.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Teachers who complete the four-year bachelor degree programme or the equivalent advanced certificate in Buddhist theology are meant to be paid Bt13,300, compared to the old rate of Bt11,680.

The Thai government is paying private school teacher salary bonuses to teachers who have completed an advanced certificate in Buddhist theology????

And anyone wonders why the education system here is c**p...

Was there any particular reason you left out part of the quote. In case you forgot I will post it for you

The government also announced a new salary of Bt14,100 for teachers who completed the Graduate Diploma Programme in Teaching Profession. The old rate was Bt12,480.

Teachers who complete the four-year bachelor degree programme or the equivalent advanced certificate in Buddhist theology are meant to be paid Bt13,300, compared to the old rate of Bt11,680.

It would appear to me the incentive is to complete a Graduate Diploma Program. Besides I have been told that some of the Buddhist schools have a good program.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

The article above mentioned what reads to me to be TWO DIFFERENT government pay incentives for private school teachers -- one relating to those obtaining graduate diplomas, and the other for those obtaining undergraduate diplomas OR a certificate in Buddhist theology.

I was only addressing the second one. And my point was, I'm not sure what obtaining a certificate in Buddhist theology has to do with making a teacher a better or more qualified educator, and more to the point, why the government is offering pay incentives for teachers to study Buddhism.

Although I realize a formal separation of religion/church and state/government is not particularly part of Thai culture, it's hard to see how that training is likely to make anyone a more qualified general education school teacher.

[chotthee]

This is exactly why government school is the best, as it strictly follow Prayuth 12 core Thainese value.

Thai government school now even have Farang teacher.

Not sure if they managed to get the full 15,000 Baht / month or not.

not having a go at you but honestly all posts I've read are total BS talking about 15000 baht. That is peanuts in real international system here where even lowest qualified forang teacher gets at least 60-80,000 baht a month in Bangkok and elsewhere at least 60,000 and many can earn 150,000 in top international schools. The thai assistants however are lucky if they get 15,000-20,000 and to be honest most of them aren't worth any more in my experience of having sent our 2 kids to several schools here including bi-lingual thai private and good international schools. I know friends who think 400,000 a year fees are crazy but international schools we've sent our kids have in each class properly qualified forang teachers or if not ones with many years forang experience. Amongst other things I'm a fully qualifies teacher but know that does not make a good teacher. Problem is most Thai teachers (except at some of very top) dont teach children to question and dont understand

" even lowest qualified forang teacher gets at least 60-80,000 baht a month" hahahahahah.

Please see here: http://www.ajarn.com/

[OmarZaidMD]

Here's an idea. Start up a private school. Hire only retired teachers. pay them well and let them own a piece of the pie ....

[jbauer]

This is exactly why government school is the best, as it strictly follow Prayuth 12 core Thainese value.

Thai government school now even have Farang teacher.

Not sure if they managed to get the full 15,000 Baht / month or not.

not having a go at you but honestly all posts I've read are total BS talking about 15000 baht. That is peanuts in real international system here where even lowest qualified forang teacher gets at least 60-80,000 baht a month in Bangkok and elsewhere at least 60,000 and many can earn 150,000 in top international schools. The thai assistants however are lucky if they get 15,000-20,000 and to be honest most of them aren't worth any more in my experience of having sent our 2 kids to several schools here including bi-lingual thai private and good international schools. I know friends who think 400,000 a year fees are crazy but international schools we've sent our kids have in each class properly qualified forang teachers or if not ones with many years forang experience. Amongst other things I'm a fully qualifies teacher but know that does not make a good teacher. Problem is most Thai teachers (except at some of very top) dont teach children to question and dont understand

" even lowest qualified forang teacher gets at least 60-80,000 baht a month" hahahahahah.

Please see here: http://www.ajarn.com/

A quick look confirms that the only salary of less than 20,000, which is more than the 15,000 Thai teachers allegedly make, is for Fillipino teachers. I have yet to see a salary on there of less than 20,000 for farang teachers. However, icare999 was referring to international school salaries, which are not advertised nearly as much as government/private schools on that site, and his estimates are correct.

OMG- I have just responded to an obvious troll. Why the hell did I do that?

Edited January 12, 2015 by jbauer

[anon022]

In my book, 1,000 - 400 = means private schools are increasing in numbers exponentially.

[chooka]

They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

It's up to the teachers to accept or reject the salary they are offered. No-one is forcing them to work for "peanuts".

And, What is the Unemployment Rate among those Teachers who stand-up for their rights ??

Thai Teacher 15,000 THB, Farang Teacher 40,000 THB, so is that about right ??

yea brother, farang superior to low animal thai. Farang more educate need more banana

[Broeno]

They charge huge fees and pay the teachers peanuts

Maybe you could open a school that charges less and pays teachers more. Or maybe you are too busy complaining.

so you open a school and complaining at the same time, or are you just complaining somebody complaining.

[Broeno]

Here's an idea. Start up a private school. Hire only retired teachers. pay them well and let them own a piece of the pie ....

wonderfull idea. DO IT.