WP expired before visa. Was told i am overstay and must pay fine. Really ?

[Kikou57]

Hi

WP expired 5th jan 2015. Visa expired 22nd jan 2015.

Went today to Chamchuri square to extend both WP and Visa.

Done this for more than 10 years without much problem except once.

WP officers told me my WP expired and i need create new one. All done in just 1h and for 3100 b i got a new WP valid till 21st Jan 2016. No fine. No bad surprise. All fine

Next step extension of visa. Believed will be fine as new WP been done without problem but no.

Was sent to superintendant assistant who told me I have to pay overstay fine for 15 days as my visa expired the day of my WP expired.

So no fee with WP office but fees to pay at immigration ? how come ?

I then asked why do you write my visa expired on my passport on 22nd Jan 2015 if you knew my WP expired on 5th jan 2015 ? Why not mention on my passeport and 1 year permit my visa will expired on 5th jan 2015 then ?
This doesn't make sens to me at all.

Noone provided me answer. I was only told i must pay 7500 b of overstay or i wont get visa extension and could face serious problem if been arrest by police, blablabla....

Just wanna have a legal advice on the regulation before give those guys hard earned money for admin bullshit.

Thanks a lot for feedbacks.

Frederic

[digitalchromakey]

You must apply to renew a WP before it expires, otherwise it is formally lost and a fresh application is required.

If you are on an extension based on working in the Kingdom of Thailand, then your extension would have expired with your WP, so they have point re the overstay.

You got lucky with the WP; look inside your WP's inside rear cover, clause 3:

3. Before a permit expires and the permit holder wishes to continue working, he shall apply for renewal of the permit prior to its expiration. Anyviolation therof shall be liable to imprisonment fro a term not exceeding one months or to a fine not exceeding five thousand baht or both.

[Kikou57]

Thanks for the answer but still I am quite sure its an administration way to get money from us.

If I was traveling outside thailand immigration would not have make me pay any overstay fees between 6th jan and 22nd as for them only matters what is written on my passport and visa. There is something wrong in the thai system so.

Immigration should not let visa state it expired on a specific day if they know it won't be valid if work permit expired before. Both date should match. They need to reform this or more people will get trouble....

[PoorSucker]

When your WP permit expires you are not allowed to work therefor the reason for your extension of stay is gone and your extension ends.

[Kikou57]

Then they should match end of visa with end of work permit. Its basic and simple. Why they don't do it mandatory its so simple to write down the correct day on the visa instead of making missunderstanding possible.

[steve187]

operator error, you knew your work permit had expired.

[PoorSucker]

Then they should match end of visa with end of work permit. Its basic and simple. Why they don't do it mandatory its so simple to write down the correct day on the visa instead of making missunderstanding possible.

Then people would be complain about not getting a full year extension of stay.

[TerryLH]

"If I was traveling outside thailand immigration would not have make me pay any overstay fees between 6th jan and 22nd as for them only matters what is written on my passport and visa."

I think that there is a concept here that you're missing.

[KamalaRider]

When your WP permit expires you are not allowed to work therefor the reason for your extension of stay is gone and your extension ends.

He's got 7 days before that happens.

[PoorSucker]

When your WP permit expires you are not allowed to work therefor the reason for your extension of stay is gone and your extension ends.

He's got 7 days before that happens.

Not correct, he can apply for 7 day extension to leave the country for 1900 baht at immigrations.

[KamalaRider]

Really interesting situation, is the extension of stay based on marriage or business? non-O or non-B.

Anyone know if extension of stay Non-O is coupled towards the work permit or only the stipulated salary requirements?

Salary 40 000 THB per month, minimum 40 000THB pension from another country or 400 000 THB in the bank is the requirement for the extension of stay, but is WP a requirement for non-O, extension of stay?

[KamalaRider]

When your WP permit expires you are not allowed to work therefor the reason for your extension of stay is gone and your extension ends.

He's got 7 days before that happens.

Not correct, he can apply for 7 day extension to leave the country for 1900 baht at immigrations.

I think he's got 7 days before he needs to apply for an extension but please, correct me if I'm wrong.

[KamalaRider]

I went though earlier posts about WP subjects and I see where I'm wrong, his WP had expired already.

He didn't change his job or got fired.

[Minnehaha]

My understanding is that when a work permit is canceled, for whatever reason, whether it is expired, person was fired or quit, etc. then the visa expires within 24 hours. Therefore you must leave the Kingdom within that time, unless you file for an extension of stay, duration of which is 7 days.

The reason visas and work permits are not in synch'd to the day is that they are two different departments of government that do not coordinate. I guess that is obvious. But it was a surprise to me when I had a work permit expire and the lawyers forgot to notify me about the visa expiry issue until about a week later. I had to pay the overstay and buy another week to arrange my affairs and prepare for travel outside and get another visa.

[Suradit69]

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Thanks for the answer but still I am quite sure its an administration way to get money from us.

If I was traveling outside thailand immigration would not have make me pay any overstay fees between 6th jan and 22nd as for them only matters what is written on my passport and visa. There is something wrong in the thai system so.

Immigration should not let visa state it expired on a specific day if they know it won't be valid if work permit expired before. Both date should match. They need to reform this or more people will get trouble....

"Immigration should not let visa state it expired on a specific day if they know it won't be valid if work permit expired before. Both date should match. They need to reform this or more people will get trouble.."

If you had extended your wp, the extension would remain valid until the date shown, which would allow you time to renew it after obtaining the new wp. Seems quite reasonable.

They assume you'll extend your work permit on time as per the instructions cited in post #2 above. If you allow your wp to expire, you're either working illegally or the purpose for giving you an extension no longer exists. You need to assume some responsibility for abiding by the wp and extension regulations.

[Nemesis7]

Just be happy and cope with all these. No big deal really. and you should know all these by now.

[toooa]

grin and bear it.... unfortunately. It's not the land of logic....

[Junkyarddog]

Had a wp and one year visa for 8 years. What you are supposed to do is this. Get your wp first, then go get your one visa. Then go back to the wp office and they will match your expiration date of the wp with the expiration date of your visa.

[Mario2008]

You can say that you were not allowed to work once the work permit expired, but you were still legally employed and thus did not need to cancel your permission to stay. You just took a holiday, which is perfectly legal.

[paz]

I think he's got 7 days before he needs to apply for an extension but please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes you're wrong, the 7 days have to be applied and paid for.

[Kikou57]

Hi guys.

I agree I should have extend my WP as I knew there was an issue. My bad.

But as many mentioned Immigration should match WP expiry date with Visa Expiry date. Which they did today for my next year visa and WP extension.

Lesson learned. Cost me 8000 b of overstay. But they shown me paper where other journalist didn't know about this regulation and had to pay 20 000 believing their visa was still fine even WP expired.

Called Ministry of foreign affairs to inform them about the issue. They didn't have knowlege about this issue.

Called a lawyer from Sunbelt company this morning who told me that this problem of WP expiring before visa were before easily solvable without the need to pay overstay fines. But time changes recently and they are getting more tough on this.

Regards

[digitalchromakey]

Hi guys.

I agree I should have extend my WP as I knew there was an issue. My bad.

But as many mentioned Immigration should match WP expiry date with Visa Expiry date. Which they did today for my next year visa and WP extension.

Lesson learned. Cost me 8000 b of overstay. But they shown me paper where other journalist didn't know about this regulation and had to pay 20 000 believing their visa was still fine even WP expired.

Called Ministry of foreign affairs to inform them about the issue. They didn't have knowlege about this issue.

Called a lawyer from Sunbelt company this morning who told me that this problem of WP expiring before visa were before easily solvable without the need to pay overstay fines. But time changes recently and they are getting more tough on this.

Regards

Well, forewarned is forearmed.

As regards MFA, they deal with Visas (issued outside of Thailand), not extensions which fall under the remit of the Interior Ministry/Thai National Police.

Of course, if you had used an expensive law firm you wouldn't have had this problem (but it you can rest assured that it would probably have cost you more than the 8,000 THB in overstay).

[lucky11]

"If I was traveling outside thailand immigration would not have make me pay any overstay fees between 6th jan and 22nd as for them only matters what is written on my passport and visa."

I think that there is a concept here that you're missing.

But you weren't outside Thailand and your visa was invalidated once your WP expired. Therefore, you were overstaying in Thailand as you didn't have a valid visa to be in the kingdom for this period.

[Kikou57]

lucky 11 and others.

One stop service at Chamchuri square told me that i wouldn't face any problem to travel till my visa expired as autorities are not aware of the expired visa due to WP expiry. They told me the problem is only here at One stop service where they apply the law stricly.

I didnt do the test but maybe some has in the past.. travelling with a Visa that on paper was not valid but that noone care because who has been once in their life request to show WP at a crossing border ? Noone.

[digitalchromakey]

lucky 11 and others.

One stop service at Chamchuri square told me that i wouldn't face any problem to travel till my visa expired as autorities are not aware of the expired visa due to WP expiry. They told me the problem is only here at One stop service where they apply the law stricly.

I didnt do the test but maybe some has in the past.. travelling with a Visa that on paper was not valid but that noone care because who has been once in their life request to show WP at a crossing border ? Noone.

You might well have experienced a similar if not worst problem at a regular (non one stop) immigration office.

Believe it or not, there have been several reported cases of people holding extensions for work being asked to show their Work Permits at land borders and even some at airports.

Again, you don't have a visa.

You have an extension of permission to stay; to leave and re-enter Thailand with such an extension requires a re-entry permit in addition to the extension, which does not function as a visa per se.

[Liquorice]

Would it matter if your Visa and WP were synchronised to show the same date.

Your seem to diminish your responsibilities and blame others for your mistakes.

If you forgot to renew your work permit by the due date, what's to say you forget to renew the Visa as well.

It would still be a case of overstay and fine.

You've learned a valuable lesson the hard way, but now your a wiser man.

[attrayant]

That's pretty dastardly. If I were the cynical type, I'd suspect they gave an extension expiration date that was later than the work permit expiration date hoping that something like this would happen and they'd be able to collect a little overstay money.

There should really be an asterisk or additional statement under than expiration date on the extension that says *expires on [date] or upon expiration of holder's work permit, whichever comes first".